Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

LeftBase

If we had an injury free panel for the 6N what are the chances we would go with our strongest 15 of

Healy
Best/Strauss
Ross
Ryan
POC
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Earls
Darcy
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Pretty slim with Kidney involved

When Reddan came in he added a little bit of go forward. He was pushing the forwards on and demanding the ball, then hitting forwards on the crash in little gaps. For me he showed he is our number 1 option at 9.

Teferi

.ak wrote: »

Yesterday Earls wasn't bad, but for me he just looked like a winger looking for work. I still don't think he has the attributes to be a 13.

Having said that, I don't mind him filling in for BOD, as he's still an excellent player... It just felt we were playing with 4 wingers yesterday.

Cave has done more than enough to be selected. I'd be miffed if McFadden was ahead of him especially.

I feel the exact same. Earls just always looks like a wing pretending to be a centre.

A lot of his best attributes are things the world class wings need.

He's still one of our best players and I don't mind him playing 13 but I think once Cave or another true centre is given an honest shot at the jersey that Earls will have trouble keeping hold of it and will be returned to the wing.

At the end of the day we're trying to replace one of the worlds greatest rugby players. It's a near impossible situation.

shuffol

Fishooks12 wrote: »

tbh the one area Earls is missing from his 13 play is his lack of ability to offload in or near contact. His passing is fine though

Agree with this, he's not good at freeing his hands in contact, hopefully thats something he'll learn from Lualala. Not convinced by him as a test 13 though, he hasnt even properly estalished himself there at provincial level. I hope he's not persevered with there against better evidence due to the time invested in him, he's a super player and can certainly do a job there but dont think he'll reach his full potential as a player in the centre. Give him a few games at fullback and he'll never look back IMO.

jamiedav2011

thomond2006 wrote: »

Earls is not the only Irish 13 guilty of poor passing, BOD has been guilty of it too. McFadden doesn't pass at all. Does Earls need 2 or 3 more seasons at 13 with Munster? I suppose it would help but I think he's grand tbh. Cave really needs to be given a shot, but not because Earls should be dropped.

On another note, I don't think we're going to beat the Argies. Because of injuries to Ferris and O'Brien, we lack the class and power to deal with their backrow of Senatore, Leguizamon and Lobbe. They are all very physical and are genuine ball players. Senatore was at Toulon last year as a medical joker (to cover for Lobbe ironically), but they wouldn't keep him because of his international commitments.

In the last few years they have developed some excellent backs too. Their Pampas XV side in the Vodacom Cup in SA is really working for them, a lot of the current young crop have come through that side.

Plus Argentina more than anyone rely on pure emotion, a very intangible thing. They'll have a field day against a team low on confidence.

I'd agree, will be very interesting to see the odds for that game.
Funnily enough, after years of suffering at the hands of their forwards, that may be the place we could beat them this time around. Much of their tight five brigade is either injured or retired iirc.

POC back would be huge for us.

It'll be another scrappy turgid, dogged game though.

Also very excited to see what Imhoff will do, he looks like a real star.

irishbucsfan

I definitely think we're missing a lot in midfield. Something has to change there. I think between Earls and D'Arcy we have two solid defenders, solid carriers, but noone who is going to beat the line and play somebody else in. This isn't helped by the fact that Sexton never seems to carry the ball into the line for Ireland.

Kiss has to focus on that ahead of Argentina. We need to create more in midfield. I think we have two options. One is to bring Marshall in at 12 and keep Earls at 13, the other (I'd prefer to see) is to bring Cave in at 13 and move Earls to the wing. I think Earls will be a great 13 at international level, but not outside D'Arcy.

jamiedav2011

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I definitely think we're missing a lot in midfield. Something has to change there. I think between Earls and D'Arcy we have two solid defenders, solid carriers, but noone who is going to beat the line and play somebody else in. This isn't helped by the fact that Sexton never seems to carry the ball into the line for Ireland.

Kiss has to focus on that ahead of Argentina. We need to create more in midfield. I think we have two options. One is to bring Marshall in at 12 and keep Earls at 13, the other (I'd prefer to see) is to bring Cave in at 13 and move Earls to the wing. I think Earls will be a great 13 at international level, but not outside D'Arcy.

Yeah think the second is the best option. Trimble's goose may just be cooked as an international wing. Does many things solidly, and not much spectacularly at this level.

irishbucsfan

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Yeah think the second is the best option. Trimble's goose may just be cooked as an international wing. Does many things solidly, and not much spectacularly at this level.

I thought he played well yesterday and was criminally underused by our half backs.

He definitely lacks a bit of a spark going forward though. Gilroy could well take his place for that reason if he can get better at the little things.

Fireball07

Or we could go with an all-Ulster centre pairing of Marshall and Cave, change it up completely?

I'd still like to see Earls at full-back with Zebo on the wing tbh. Zebo attacked the line well enough yesterday but he'd get more space on the wing to do real damage.

Cpt_Blackbeard

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I definitely think we're missing a lot in midfield. Something has to change there. I think between Earls and D'Arcy we have two solid defenders, solid carriers, but noone who is going to beat the line and play somebody else in. This isn't helped by the fact that Sexton never seems to carry the ball into the line for Ireland.

Kiss has to focus on that ahead of Argentina. We need to create more in midfield. I think we have two options. One is to bring Marshall in at 12 and keep Earls at 13, the other (I'd prefer to see) is to bring Cave in at 13 and move Earls to the wing. I think Earls will be a great 13 at international level, but not outside D'Arcy.

If you're going to move/drop either D'Arcy or Earls, D'Arcy has to be the one to miss out. He was poor yesterday; he was used on the crash a fair bit, but he offered no gains and he fell off a number of tackles too. He's been a passenger at international level for a while now; even a decent appearance in the second NZ test is being lauded as brilliant because it was so far above the usual meh-ness he usually serves up in green.

Earls wasn't great and definitely showed some rustiness in the first half, but he still looked dangerous when given a half-chance. Considering how poorly the backline is coached, we need to see our most dangerous players see the ball as often as possible. Cave might look good with a well coached backline around him, but that's not going to happen until Kidney and Kiss are gone.

I'd like to see Marshall tried at 12 because we badly need some more creativity out of our midfield. One of the reasons Ireland generally look pretty good when Sexton is shifted to 12 is because we have two playmakers on the field. Giving Marshall a shot will facilitate this, but it will also ensure that we have our best 10 on the field.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I definitely think we're missing a lot in midfield. Something has to change there. I think between Earls and D'Arcy we have two solid defenders, solid carriers, but noone who is going to beat the line and play somebody else in. This isn't helped by the fact that Sexton never seems to carry the ball into the line for Ireland.

Kiss has to focus on that ahead of Argentina. We need to create more in midfield. I think we have two options. One is to bring Marshall in at 12 and keep Earls at 13, the other (I'd prefer to see) is to bring Cave in at 13 and move Earls to the wing. I think Earls will be a great 13 at international level, but not outside D'Arcy.

I don't know if Earls is a solid carrier. It's one attribute I wouldn't put to him. He's the kind of player that can run circles around players, not through them.

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

I don't know if Earls is a solid carrier. It's one attribute I wouldn't put to him. He's the kind of player that can run circles around players, not through them.

I think he's a very good carrier, he's very powerful for such a small package. He rarely goes backwards in the tackle.

jm08

shuffol wrote: »

Agree with this, he's not good at freeing his hands in contact, hopefully thats something he'll learn from Lualala. Not convinced by him as a test 13 though, he hasnt even properly estalished himself there at provincial level. I hope he's not persevered with there against better evidence due to the time invested in him, he's a super player and can certainly do a job there but dont think he'll reach his full potential as a player in the centre. Give him a few games at fullback and he'll never look back IMO.

Something like 23 of his 26 Heineken Cup games has been starting in the centre. His 3 starts for Munster this season have been in the centre (with Laulala moved to 12).

Very little time has been invested in Earls in the centre for Ireland. The 6Ns this year was the first time he actually got a run of 4 games and he was one of our better players. Since then it has gone playing 13 (for munster), then 15 for Ireland (ba-baas), 12 against ABs, 11 against ABs & 13 against South Africa.

Cave was the 13 that started against the Ba-Baas alongside Paddy Wallace. I don't think Cave has the pace to make it as an international 13. It should also be remembered that while being good in your Heineken Cup team, doesn't always translate into being an international centre (Paddy Wallace is a good example of this).

irishbucsfan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

If you're going to move/drop either D'Arcy or Earls, D'Arcy has to be the one to miss out. He was poor yesterday; he was used on the crash a fair bit, but he offered no gains and he fell off a number of tackles too. He's been a passenger at international level for a while now; even a decent appearance in the second NZ test is being lauded as brilliant because it was so far above the usual meh-ness he usually serves up in green.

Earls wasn't great and definitely showed some rustiness in the first half, but he still looked dangerous when given a half-chance. Considering how poorly the backline is coached, we need to see our most dangerous players see the ball as often as possible. Cave might look good with a well coached backline around him, but that's not going to happen until Kidney and Kiss are gone.

I'd like to see Marshall tried at 12 because we badly need some more creativity out of our midfield. One of the reasons Ireland generally look pretty good when Sexton is shifted to 12 is because we have two playmakers on the field. Giving Marshall a shot will facilitate this, but it will also ensure that we have our best 10 on the field.

I agree that we need to phase D'Arcy out, and the first step towards doing that should happen against Argentina.

But I think against Argentina we need to get the best backline on the field to win the game. We need a result, not an experience. Now if you accept you can't change both players (too inexperienced) then you have to choose between a backline of Trimble, Marshall, Earls, Bowe, Zebo or a backline of Earls, D'Arcy, Cave, Bowe, Zebo. For me the second of those is stronger.

I think you have the argument against Cave and for Marshall back to front. Under the current coaching setup Cave would be more valuable and Marshall would be less valuable because you're relying on more movement outside a 12 than you are outside a 13. With D'Arcy and Cave you still have a safe pair of hands beside Sexton and also the option to put Cave into dangerous positions further out. I think distribution at 13 is a lot more instinctive than distribution at 12 and it's instinctive play that has kept Ireland alive under Kidney (because the prescribed play has been brutal).

I appreciate that D'Arcy has to go and that Earls is the future, but I don't think that can come into things against Argentina.

jacothelad

shuffol wrote: »

Agree with this, he's not good at freeing his hands in contact, hopefully thats something he'll learn from Lualala. Not convinced by him as a test 13 though, he hasnt even properly estalished himself there at provincial level. I hope he's not persevered with there against better evidence due to the time invested in him, he's a super player and can certainly do a job there but dont think he'll reach his full potential as a player in the centre. Give him a few games at fullback and he'll never look back IMO.

He'll be looking on from the stands at Kearney or Zebo though.

Fireball07 wrote: »

Or we could go with an all-Ulster centre pairing of Marshall and Cave, change it up completely?

I'd still like to see Earls at full-back with Zebo on the wing tbh. Zebo attacked the line well enough yesterday but he'd get more space on the wing to do real damage.

If Kidney is going to use Zebo at 15 v. Argentina, it would make sense to keep him there v. Fiji and give him a bit more experience of that position. Let's face it, once Homer gets an idea in his head it lodges there. Sexton to 12, POM at 7, Ryan at 6 etc are examples of his immovable thinking.

jamiedav2011

One thing Zebo really needs to stop doing is this thing of holding the ball in one hand and pinning the ears back. The carrying style is a real flaw to his game.

jm08

Fireball07 wrote: »

Or we could go with an all-Ulster centre pairing of Marshall and Cave, change it up completely?

I'd still like to see Earls at full-back with Zebo on the wing tbh. Zebo attacked the line well enough yesterday but he'd get more space on the wing to do real damage.

People need to stop shifting Earls around and leave him in the one position for a run of games.

Rob Kearney will be back for the 6Ns - lets develop Zebo as a back-up to him now by giving him a few games there when there is the opportunity.

Try Luke Marshall at 12 with Earls in the centre to see if that partnership will work, though I suspect come the 6Ns, it will be a BOD-Earls partnership in the centre.

Scioch

jm08 wrote: »

People need to stop shifting Earls around and leave him in the one position for a run of games.

Rob Kearney will be back for the 6Ns - lets develop Zebo as a back-up to him now by giving him a few games there when there is the opportunity.

Try Luke Marshall at 12 with Earls in the centre to see if that partnership will work, though I suspect come the 6Ns, it will be a BOD-Earls partnership in the centre.

What about Jones ? Zebo isnt a FB and he wont get the chance to be one at Munster. I dont see any point in developing him to be Kearney's back up if we have Jones. Bring in Jones (he's fit right ?) and give him the time and leave Zebo to the wing.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Scioch wrote: »

What about Jones ? Zebo isnt a FB and he wont get the chance to be one at Munster. I dont see any point in developing him to be Kearney's back up if we have Jones. Bring in Jones (he's fit right ?) and give him the time and leave Zebo to the wing.

He's fit but he hasn't shown anything to put him ahead of David Kearney, or Niall Morris, or Henshaw, or even Duffy as a FB since may 2011 imo.

Personally I think that Zebo might get a game at FB in Munster now that he has had a chance to allow LOD into the team.

Banbridgeman2

I would like to see the following dropped: POM, Murray, D'arcy, Earls, Zebo. Start Henderson ahead of POM (already better than the vastly overrated POM imo) Marshall or Reddan ahead of Murray (won't discount reddan after 20minutes behind a pack who couldn't gain yards), start McFadden at 12, put Cace at 13 and maybe Jackson/henshaw/madigan at 15. I think after yesterday earls should be behind Trimble for wing he was really bad! And of course get ROG off the bench the guy shouldn't be anywhere near a 22

goreyguy

i'd go with this for ARG.

Healy
Strauss
Ross
Ryan
McCarthy
Henderson
Henry
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Earls
Darcy(i'd be open to someone else but an obvious replacement is hard to find)
Cave
Bowe
Zebo

But in the end it won't matter because we are so poorly coached.

Quint2010

What are the odds of ROG being at 10 for the game against Fuji?

Lelantos

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

I would like to see the following dropped: POM, Murray, D'arcy, Earls, Zebo. Start Henderson ahead of POM (already better than the vastly overrated POM imo) Marshall or Reddan ahead of Murray (won't discount reddan after 20minutes behind a pack who couldn't gain yards), start McFadden at 12, put Cace at 13 and maybe Jackson/henshaw/madigan at 15. I think after yesterday earls should be behind Trimble for wing he was really bad! And of course get ROG off the bench the guy shouldn't be anywhere near a 22

Trimble will be a very lucky man to make the team against Argentina , a few players had mares yesterday & he was right up at the top of that list.

tolosenc

Lelantos wrote: »

Trimble will be a very lucky man to make the team against Argentina , a few players had mares yesterday & he was right up at the top of that list.

No he wasn't. He was solid and dependable. Not flashy by any means, but hardly had a mare.

Fireball07

goreyguy wrote: »

i'd go with this for ARG.

Healy
Strauss
Ross
Ryan
McCarthy
Henderson
Henry
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Earls
Darcy(i'd be open to someone else but an obvious replacement is hard to find)
Cave
Bowe
Zebo

But in the end it won't matter because we are so poorly coached.

It looks like a decent team. Maybe McFadden at 12? He's not that much better than D'Arcy but he's very fast and is well able to take the ball into contact. I don't know tbh, if Marshall starts at 12 against Fiji and goes well, I wouldn't be against him playing.

And as for Henderson...again I'd play him against Fiji, and if he plays well, he could start. (And wouldn't be against Earls and Zebo switching positions either)

jm08

Scioch wrote: »

What about Jones ? Zebo isnt a FB and he wont get the chance to be one at Munster. I dont see any point in developing him to be Kearney's back up if we have Jones. Bring in Jones (he's fit right ?) and give him the time and leave Zebo to the wing.

Hopefully Kearney will come back as good as he was last season, and when he does, you still need to have backup in the 23 who can cover fullback if the fullback gets injured.

Jones is coming back to fitness, but I wouldn't be relying on his ability to stay fit.

Zebo will get plenty of time on the wing for Munster.

Banbridgeman2

Quint2010 wrote: »

What are the odds of ROG being at 10 for the game against Fuji?

If he starts ahead of Jackson they'll be some furious people around my club next weekend! I genuinely think it would be a shocking decision. I think everyone is getting fed up with Kidney picking players from a certain province. Ireland shouldn't be used to prop up Munster, there's talk in some quarters that the IRFU wants Munster in a healthy state because of their comnercialbility and as a result munster players are being fast tracked. Heard that from a chairman of a rugby club (no not banbridge) seemed a bit conspiratol but hea been right about a lot in the past

Fireball07

Lelantos wrote: »

Trimble will be a very lucky man to make the team against Argentina , a few players had mares yesterday & he was right up at the top of that list.

I disagree.

Nobody had a mare. Plenty were average or quiet, but nobody was terrible. Trimble came into the line a few times, taking the ball into contact. He made a few yards, not much but in general he didn't lose. He did what he had to in defence. Maybe lacked a little spark but wasn't bad.

goreyguy

Quint2010 wrote: »

What are the odds of ROG being at 10 for the game against Fuji?

I would say 50%

Although because it's an A game he might not be bothered,

Tox56

You would hope that not even Kidney would think of putting ROG at 10, I think his decision to call up Jackson means he will play, ROG might bench though

Banbridgeman2

jm08 wrote: »

Hopefully Kearney will come back as good as he was last season, and when he does, you still need to have backup in the 23 who can cover fullback if the fullback gets injured.

Jones is coming back to fitness, but I wouldn't be relying on his ability to stay fit.

Zebo will get plenty of time on the wing for Munster.

Henshaw looks already better than Zebo. Why would we continue to develop Zebo when there's better young players? It doesn't make sense