Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Hagz

I would love to see a combination of Paul Marshall and Ian Madigan on the bench. Not saying they deserve it or anything, but boy could they add a spark.

goreyguy

I love O'Gara. Absolute legend, but his days are done.
He obviously doesn't think so, which isn't a surprise, very few great players have retired when they should have.

But it's Kidney's absolute lack of balls to tell O'Gara his days are done with Ireland, that grinds me.

Fireball07

Hagz wrote: »

I would love to see a combination of Paul Marshall and Ian Madigan on the bench. Not saying they deserve it or anything, but boy could they add a spark.

For Argentina or Fiji?

I think Marshall deserves a chance...probably the best bench option of all. Murray was good yesterday, and Reddan is normally good but Marshall has been playing very well this season.

jm08

Fireball07 wrote: »

But Jackson is better than ROG now.

If Sexton does go off, we don't want massive Argies running straight at ROG, they'd just bulldoze through. Whatever else about yesterday, we were pretty strong in defence, South Africa didn't make that much ground bar a few mauls. (Which is one reason why we should have kicked for a bit more territory, if we could have pinned them back in their own 22, they weren't going to get out easily)

Jackson hasn't been really tested (outside of Ravenhill against a top team without Pienaar). You saw yesterday how Pienaar is the main man. A lot of SA fans complain that Pienaar stiffles his outhalf.

jamiedav2011

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There is only merit to it if you accept Madigan and Keatley aren't in the squad and won't be. IE he's probably better than risking Sexton there. There's also the argument that we need to win the game, and also the argument that O'Gara actually has a chance of being involved against Argentina so needs game time.

I'd prefer to see Madigan on the bench personally. But there is at least SOME merit to having ROG there, just not all that much!

Yeah good point. That little cameo last night spoke volumes to me though.

The substitution strategy is still shockingly poor tbh.

Speaking of which, I wonder is there a case for having Marshall on the bench over Reddan? In my opinion, Reddan should be starting, but Marshall is the definition of an impact sub. Kidney might not trust his spark though. :rolleyes:

Hagz

Fireball07 wrote: »

For Argentina or Fiji?

Either, bearing in mind that I just think it would be entertaining, not necessarily right. For Fiji I would probably start Marshall with Jackson and then bring on Reddan with Sexton and then for Argentina I'd start Sexton with Reddan, with Murray on the bench, unless Marshall does great against Fiji.

EDIT: I'd also add that if Kidney decides to go with Murray against Arg, then I'd prefer to see Marshall over Reddan on the bench. I either want to see Reddan being given a start to see the Sexton/Reddan combination again, or I want to see Marshall being handed an opportunity.

irishbucsfan

What would you have done with the subs yesterday?

I think he got the timing with Reddan correct. I would have liked to have seen Henderson a bit sooner. Don't really think he had much other choices available... Maybe ROG a bit sooner but ROG doesn't really deserve to be discussed at all after that chip at the end.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

There was a great cheer when ROG came on last night. Our thoughts here don't reflect public opinion.

More than likely they were hoping he would do what he did the last time he came on against SA and Ireland scored 2 tries in about 5 minutes.

Some people should remember that O'Gara, like Earls is very short of gametime this year.

Fireball07

jm08 wrote: »

Jackson hasn't been really tested (outside of Ravenhill against a top team without Pienaar). You saw yesterday how Pienaar is the main man. A lot of SA fans complain that Pienaar stiffles his outhalf.

Jackson played excellently against Munster and Pienaar wasn't playing that day. Munster aren't exactly a top team but he was superb.

There's just no point in playing ROG, Jackson deserves to have his form rewarded- like Henry, McCarthy, Kilcoyne, Henderson, Zebo do.

Hagz wrote: »

Either, bearing in mind that I just think it would be entertaining, not necessarily right. For Fiji I would probably start Marshall with Jackson and then bring on Reddan with Sexton and then for Argentina I'd start Sexton with Reddan, with Murray on the bench, unless Marshall does great against Fiji.

I agree with you...although I'd definitely like to see Marshall on the bench against Argentina. Don't really care who starts tbh, there's really not much between Murray and Reddan imo.

I can see where you're coming from with Madigan too, would offer a bit of excitement...if he came on at 12, leaving Sexton at 10, I'd like that.

danthefan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What would you have done with the subs yesterday?

I think he got the timing with Reddan correct. I would have liked to have seen Henderson a bit sooner. Don't really think he had much other choices available... Maybe ROG a bit sooner but ROG doesn't really deserve to be discussed at all after that chip at the end.

I think we needed forwards on at about 60 mins. Our pack was seriously flagging at that stage.

Fishooks12

danthefan wrote: »

I think we needed forwards on at about 60 mins. Our pack was seriously flagging at that stage.

I couldn't understand why Healy, Ross and Strauss were left on so long. They could barely stand coming off the field. It was awful bench management

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Jackson hasn't been really tested (outside of Ravenhill against a top team without Pienaar). You saw yesterday how Pienaar is the main man. A lot of SA fans complain that Pienaar stiffles his outhalf.

This is getting a bit ridiculous, you're just making up criteria here. He has looked a hell of a lot more convincing this season than his main competitor for a bench spot (ROG).

Fishooks12

Jackson has been in better form than Sexton so far this season! Madness that we're even having a discussion about starting a guy who shouldn't even be starting ahead of Keatley (who was unlucky not to make the squad instead of ROG imo)

jm08

Fireball07 wrote: »

Jackson played excellently against Munster and Pienaar wasn't playing that day. Munster aren't exactly a top team but he was superb.

I said outside Ravenhill. Jackson did play well - and a lot of the Munster players were just coming back in.

There's just no point in playing ROG, Jackson deserves to have his form rewarded- like Henry, McCarthy, Kilcoyne, Henderson, Zebo do.

Its not about rewarding anyone's form. Their form wasn't rewarded. They were used because of injuries. Henry would not have started if SOB was available.

I agree with you...although I'd definitely like to see Marshall on the bench against Argentina. Don't really care who starts tbh, there's really not much between Murray and Reddan imo.

There is physicality between Reddan & Murray. I'd have Boss ahead of Reddan for that reason as well particularly when missing Ferris/SOB.

thomond2006

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I couldn't understand why Healy, Ross and Strauss were left on so long. They could barely stand coming off the field. It was awful bench management

Kidney's bench management has been woeful throughout his tenure.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

This is getting a bit ridiculous, you're just making up criteria here. He has looked a hell of a lot more convincing this season than his main competitor for a bench spot (ROG).

Jackson has played about a dozen games in his career todate. A couple of months ago in the HCup final he looked way out of his depth. He didn't look great in the U20s in the 6Ns either, so that is why I'd like to see him in one or two must win games way from Ravenhill (preferably France) without Pienaar to see what he is made of before throwing him against the Argentina not surrounded by players he is used to.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

Jackson has played about a dozen games in his career todate. A couple of months ago in the HCup final he looked way out of his depth. He didn't look great in the U20s in the 6Ns either, so that is why I'd like to see him in one or two must win games way from Ravenhill (preferably France) without Pienaar to see what he is made of before throwing him against the Argentina not surrounded by players he is used to.

That may be true but that still doesn't merit the retention of O'Gara.

Banbridgeman2

jm08 wrote: »

Jackson has played about a dozen games in his career todate.

If I went through your posts then I won't find posts supporting kidneys decision to give POM or Murray starts after a dozen games?

tolosenc

Tox56 wrote: »

This is getting a bit ridiculous, you're just making up criteria here. He has looked a hell of a lot more convincing this season than his main competitor for a bench spot (ROG).

BOD shouldn't start because he's never been tested (Playing against a World XV as part of an under 10s team).

jamiedav2011

thomond2006 wrote: »

Kidney's bench management has been woeful throughout his tenure.

Healy in particular is absolutely flogged for Ireland.

jamiedav2011

Can someone tell me by the way when a box kick into the opponent's half became a viable tactic?

Have never ever seen either Murray do that in provincial colours, was absolutely disgusted when he did it yesterday. Sexton's soon after was at least outside the 22, and we were on the backfoot, but both were good examples of our inability to keep continuity when we have the ball and to attack intelligently.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

That may be true but that still doesn't merit the retention of O'Gara.

Early in the match yesterday, Sexton was down injured and could have needed to have been replaced. I really don't think it would be fair on Jackson to throw him into that.

tolosenc

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Can someone tell me by the way when a box kick into the opponent's half became a viable tactic?

Have never ever seen either Murray do that in provincial colours, was absolutely disgusted when he did it yesterday. Sexton's soon after was at least outside the 22, and we were on the backfoot, but both were good examples of our inability to keep continuity when we have the ball and to attack intelligently.

When it's short enough to get a chase on, or even challenge for it.
When it's into space and a large amount of territory can be gained.
When you've just turned over after sustained pressure and just want the ball away.
When the opposition 15 is shaky under the high ball.

tolosenc

jm08 wrote: »

Early in the match yesterday, Sexton was down injured and could have needed to have been replaced. I really don't think it would be fair on Jackson to throw him into that.

It's not fair on the other 14 guys to have ROG on, though.

irishbucsfan

If it's the one I'm thinking of it was the correct option. We had just won a lineout and attempted to set up a maul. The maul didn't get going at all well. The fact the lineout had ended meant the opposition defense came up to the line and we had to use the ball.

The kick wasn't the best, a little bit too far infield. And Trimble has obstructed pretty well meaning we couldn't put the receiver under any pressure. In the end they took a pretty easy mark. If it had been executed properly we'd be contesting the ball in their 22, which would've been a good outcome to a failed maul. I'm sure we ended up getting the ball back anyway from the mark.

jm08

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

If I went through your posts then I won't find posts supporting kidneys decision to give POM or Murray starts after a dozen games?

You'll find that both O'Mahony (starter for 5 Heineken cup games with 2 MOTM awards) & Murray had played away in France on a winning team before they were selected for Ireland, also with numerous MOTM awards. Murray was the SH that won the Magners Final in 2010.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

You'll find that both O'Mahony (starter for 5 Heineken cup games with 2 MOTM awards) & Murray had played away in France on a winning team before they were selected for Ireland, also with numerous MOTM awards. Murray was the SH that won the Magners Final in 2010.

Yeah but Paddy Jackson has eaten at 12 Burger Kings and just 3 McDonalds. Whereas POM is unable to construct flatpack furniture.

jm08

tolosenc wrote: »

It's not fair on the other 14 guys to have ROG on, though.

He was on the pitch for about 5 minutes. I hope none of the rest of the team made any errors in their first 5 minutes on the pitch.

leonard7

Johnny Sexton should be called Johnny Sextant - because he is a very accurate kicker and a sextant is a nautical tool used for navigation which measures the angle between any two visible objects.

Fishooks12

leonard7 wrote: »

Johnny Sexton should be called Johnny Sextant - because he is a very accurate kicker and a sextant is a nautical tool used for navigation which measures the angle between any two visible objects.

This wouldn't be a bad post to reopen the match thread with. Some light nautical based humor to cool things down