Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

13-11-2012 4:50pm

jm08 wrote: »

What marks would you give Zebo & O'Dea as wingers (as they would be ahead of Murphy in the Munster pecking order).

It's not relevant to the question asked as it was regarding Earls' selection during McGahan's time with the team.

Nor relevant to the thread.

Hagz · 13-11-2012 4:53pm

This photo makes me laugh

Deano7788 · 13-11-2012 4:53pm

jm08 wrote: »

What marks would you give Zebo & O'Dea as wingers (as they would be ahead of Murphy in the Munster pecking order).

Wouldn't that just improve his point ?

jm08 · 13-11-2012 4:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not relevant to the question asked as it was regarding Earls' selection during McGahan's time with the team.

Nor relevant to the thread.

Zebo was selected by McGahan last season (when Howlett got injured). He was a starter for Munster, ahead of Murphy.

bilston · 13-11-2012 4:54pm

http://www.inpho.ie/app/WebObjects/INPHO-Shop.woa/3/wa/s?cl=GYrXKiCDWdvdS8PB03jfmw..a&wosid=oJqGes8m2d62u8MgXJ8bUM&woinst=3&ts=LOFdGFXOCmvSK6E2KNnI3PWBVN8i3I9stu2jOTn6cMo.a

If the photos in the above link are anything to go by there will be 15 changes to the side that played SA.

From those photos the team looks something like:

Hurley, Gilroy, Cave, Marshall, Jackson, Marshall + 1 other winger

Kilcoyne, Cronin, Bent, O'Callaghan, Tuohy, Henderson, McLaughlin, Muldoon

Edit - In saying that those photos were taken yesterday so there may be one or two nursing knocks who mightn't have been training or perhaps the guys who started against SA got the day off or something?

13-11-2012 4:56pm

jm08 wrote: »

Zebo was selected by McGahan last season (when Howlett got injured). He was a starter for Munster, ahead of Murphy.

makes it even easier so

Zebo + Earls > Barnes + Earls.

jm08 · 13-11-2012 4:57pm

Deano7788 wrote: »

Wouldn't that just improve his point ?

Maybe it will, but if he rates Zebo as good, if not a better winger than Earls it proves we have far more resources at 11 than 13.

O'Dea is highly rated in Munster as well (as a Munster player).

13-11-2012 4:58pm

jm08 wrote: »

Maybe it will, but if he rates Zebo as good, if not a better winger than Earls it proves we have far more resources at 11 than 13.

O'Dea is highly rated in Munster as well (as a Munster player).

No it doesn't.

Since Lualala is significantly better at 13 than Earls.

Deano7788 · 13-11-2012 4:59pm

bilston wrote: »

http://www.inpho.ie/app/WebObjects/INPHO-Shop.woa/3/wa/s?cl=GYrXKiCDWdvdS8PB03jfmw..a&wosid=oJqGes8m2d62u8MgXJ8bUM&woinst=3&ts=LOFdGFXOCmvSK6E2KNnI3PWBVN8i3I9stu2jOTn6cMo.a

If the photos in the above link are anything to go by there will be 15 changes to the side that played SA.

From those photos the team looks something like:

Hurley, Gilroy, Cave, Marshall, Jackson, Marshall + 1 other winger

Kilcoyne, Cronin, Bent, O'Callaghan, Tuohy, Henderson, McLaughlin, Muldoon

Edit - In saying that those photos were taken yesterday so there may be one or two nursing knocks who mightn't have been training or perhaps the guys who started against SA got the day off or something?

Is it just me or is that link not working for anyone else?

bilston · 13-11-2012 5:01pm

Deano7788 wrote: »

Is it just me or is that link not working for anyone else?

Not working for me now either...just take my word for it then! I'll see if I can post a correct link.

http://www.inpho.ie/assignment/Ireland-Rugby-Squad-Training-Monday/sjjTzc5H1-X2ONg4WbHgnA..a?ts=OYtfveYA_d-LFHuSd3Z4lg..a

Foxtrol · 13-11-2012 5:01pm

bilston wrote: »

http://www.inpho.ie/app/WebObjects/INPHO-Shop.woa/3/wa/s?cl=GYrXKiCDWdvdS8PB03jfmw..a&wosid=oJqGes8m2d62u8MgXJ8bUM&woinst=3&ts=LOFdGFXOCmvSK6E2KNnI3PWBVN8i3I9stu2jOTn6cMo.a

If the photos in the above link are anything to go by there will be 15 changes to the side that played SA.

From those photos the team looks something like:

Hurley, Gilroy, Cave, Marshall, Jackson, Marshall + 1 other winger

Kilcoyne, Cronin, Bent, O'Callaghan, Tuohy, Henderson, McLaughlin, Muldoon

Edit - In saying that those photos were taken yesterday so there may be one or two nursing knocks who mightn't have been training or perhaps the guys who started against SA got the day off or something?

I’ve been very sceptical about Kidney making a raft of changes but is it possible that it might be forced upon him as it would look very bad on the IRFU in the eyes of Aviva if it seems they are trying to circumvent the naming rights by sticking XV at the end of Ireland but putting out practically a full strength side?

Fireball07 · 13-11-2012 5:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No it doesn't.

Since Lualala is significantly better at 13 than Earls.

You see, that's the point I'm not sure about. In my opinion, Earls has looked better than Laulala at 13 so far this season. I know Earls didn't play much and Laulala had the two HC games but still...

I reckon they could be a good centre partnership outside Keatley...although depending on the form of Jones, the best use of resources could be moving Earls to 15.

jm08 · 13-11-2012 5:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No it doesn't.

Since Lualala is significantly better at 13 than Earls.

No Munster fan would agree with that.

You rated Earls as an 8.5 winger & 7 Centre.

Would you mind rating Zebo as a winger and Lauala as a centre please.

(Just on Lauala - he will be gone from Munster in 18 months - what then?)

13-11-2012 5:04pm

jm08 wrote: »

No Munster fan would agree with that.

You rated Earls as an 8.5 winger & 7 Centre.

Would you mind rating Zebo as a winger and Lauala as a centre please.

(Just on Lauala - he will be gone from Munster in 18 months - what then?)

this is the Ireland Team Thread.

CatFromHue · 13-11-2012 5:09pm

bilston wrote: »

http://www.inpho.ie/app/WebObjects/INPHO-Shop.woa/3/wa/s?cl=GYrXKiCDWdvdS8PB03jfmw..a&wosid=oJqGes8m2d62u8MgXJ8bUM&woinst=3&ts=LOFdGFXOCmvSK6E2KNnI3PWBVN8i3I9stu2jOTn6cMo.a

If the photos in the above link are anything to go by there will be 15 changes to the side that played SA.

From those photos the team looks something like:

Hurley, Gilroy, Cave, Marshall, Jackson, Marshall + 1 other winger

Kilcoyne, Cronin, Bent, O'Callaghan, Tuohy, Henderson, McLaughlin, Muldoon

Edit - In saying that those photos were taken yesterday so there may be one or two nursing knocks who mightn't have been training or perhaps the guys who started against SA got the day off or something?

On RTE News yesterday they said that none of the 15 who started on Sat trained yesterday.

jm08 · 13-11-2012 5:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

this is the Ireland Team Thread.

OK - you can still rate Zebo as an Ireland winger to Earls!

Just for the record - Munsterfans do a weekly fan player rating over the season. Average rating for the season is:

Earls 6.8
Downey 6.3
Casey 5.6

totallegend · 13-11-2012 5:10pm

bilston wrote: »

From those photos the team looks something like:

Hurley, Gilroy, Cave, Marshall, Jackson, Marshall + 1 other winger

Kilcoyne, Cronin, Bent, O'Callaghan, Tuohy, Henderson, McLaughlin, Muldoon

Hmmm. Well, if it moves us off the Earls debate, let's get stuck in:

Hurley is not and never will be an international full-back; selecting him would be a waste of time and a waste of a jersey. Munster fans, take your best shot but I think that's the truth. Rest of the backs are fine.

Hard to know if we'd learn much about Kilcoyne and Bent as scrummagers this weekend but I'd be all for giving them game time.

Tuohy deserves a run, fair play. I would have liked to see Ryan and McCarthy go again though.

That back-row has three sixes in it; can Muldoon play eight?

irishbucsfan · 13-11-2012 5:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Stop.

I am not going to search out a negative example for every positive that you trot out. I'm not as pedantic and basically boring as that. Tit for Tat is not what I'm going to engage in.

I watch an awful lot of rugby, I post on here when I do a lot of the time. While watching all that rugby, I've formed the opinion that Earls' game is suited to the left wing. I think he makes poor decisions, he is greedy when he shouldn't be, he is just not a natural 13 at all imo.

I'm really not looking for many examples. Just one or two. Anything that backs up your point really. His performances at 13 for Munster have been excellent and he has improved his distribution after the break since becoming a pro. He makes a couple of poor decisions but he makes up for that through making more breaks and offering a greater scoring threat.

There were no other options. Danny Barnes?

I'm going to be a bit of a dick here, and be overtly childish, but this is literally how I see this situation. Perhaps the weighting is different and clearly more intricate, but at the end of the day that is how to balance the choices for a team.

Imagine Top Trumps. Earls is a 7 centre and an 8.5 winger
Danny Barnes is a 4 centre. Murphy is a 6.5 winger.

13. Earls 11. Murphy = 13.5.
13 Barnes 11. Earls = 12.5

There were options before last season and he still played 13. One time he didn't was when JDV was there. Eventually they copped on and realised their best team involved both Earls and JDV as centres and that was when they played their best rugby.

And now, with Laulala and Downey there, it looks like Earls is still the first choice 13. Even if he plays a couple of games at 15 and 11 he will still end up at 13 IMO, that's what the signs are pointing to anyway.

His instincts are towards the try line. Him. Ball. Tryline. I've not developed this opinion over 3 weeks. You've said it yourself, I've talked about it plenty of times before. He has killer instinct that an 11 needs. He does not have creative instinct that a 13 requires.

You're making it sound like all a winger needs is a try scoring ability and all a center needs is a creative instinct. That's not the case. There are plenty of 13s around now who are at the top level without that creative instinct (Tuilagi, Davies and Williams both, a couple of Saffers, Rougerie, Bastareaud, Bosch). Not every 13 has to play like a second pivot, there is more than one way to play attractive attacking rugby. And as our best young 12s are creative playmakers (Hanrahan, Marshall) then ignoring a strike-running try-scoring 13 and shoehorning him into a position that he doesn't play and doesn't want to play makes very little sense.

The idea that Earls is not a 13 can't be supported by any objective view of where he has played throughout his career. Perhaps by some subjective view of what he's good at and what he isn't, but by that token I can say he's a rubbish winger and a brilliant center. The truth is he's a great winger and a great center and if he went off with to play 13 with a Pienaaresque contract he'd start for most sides in Europe.

13-11-2012 5:14pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There are plenty of 13s around now who are at the top level without that creative instinct (Tuilagi, Davies and Williams both, a couple of Saffers, Rougerie, Bastareaud, Bosch).

There is something that they have in common that Earls' doesn't have, and that I described earlier.

They are all absolute lumps!

irishbucsfan · 13-11-2012 5:15pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

On RTE News yesterday they said that none of the 15 who started on Sat trained yesterday.

Yeah they probably gave them a rest. I'd be waiting for tonight or tomorrow.

Will the team be announced tomorrow or Thursday?

irishbucsfan · 13-11-2012 5:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There is something that they have in common that Earls' doesn't have, and that I described earlier.

They are all absolute lumps!

Not all of them. Williams is a fairy boy for example. And Earls is much better than him imo.

And there are others who aren't exactly big. Earls is also a far more creative player than you give him credit for. I thought he was selfish as well (and had prolonged arguments with Munster fans on here about how he'd never be a 13) until last season. Then his performances proved me wrong. He can pass off both hands now (most of the time) and he's looking for support. Mannix will improve that further. All the while he is improving that he's still our best 13 for everything else. I'm all for giving Cave a shot this week, as I've said, but I don't accept he has the same long-term value.

JustinDee · 13-11-2012 5:20pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah they probably gave them a rest. I'd be waiting for tonight or tomorrow.

Will the team be announced tomorrow or Thursday?

12.30pm Thursday in Limerick.

bilston · 13-11-2012 5:32pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

On RTE News yesterday they said that none of the 15 who started on Sat trained yesterday.

That could explain it alright.

I'd be surprised to see 15 changes but then again if it's nominally a Wolfhounds game it may come to pass. The good thing is that this really is a very unpredictable selection that keeps us interested this week!

bilston · 13-11-2012 5:34pm

totallegend wrote: »

That back-row has three sixes in it; can Muldoon play eight?

Wilson was also in the pics.

freyners · 13-11-2012 5:39pm

totallegend wrote:

That back-row has three sixes in it; can Muldoon play eight?

yup, hes played there numerous times for connacht over the years

.ak · 13-11-2012 6:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm going to be a bit of a dick here, and be overtly childish...

Top trumps used to settle a debate about rugby? I've seen it all...

13-11-2012 6:32pm

.ak wrote: »

Top trumps used to settle a debate about rugby? I've seen it all...

It was either that or explain LaGrangian Constraints and budgetary restrictions in finding an optimal solution to a multivariate problem.

.ak · 13-11-2012 6:40pm

Tony Ward defending Kidney. Shouldn't be sacked. Also, we're all cowards!

Tony Ward wrote:

So yes, if you must, sack the coach, sack his assistants, sack the players and, of course, all will be dandy. Sadly, rugby is now heading the way of soccer, fuelled by pitiful websites and the anonymous vitriol of cowards.

:rolleyes: You'd think Tony, of all people, would have some backbone against the IRFU.

Fireball07 · 13-11-2012 6:45pm

.ak wrote: »

Tony Ward defending Kidney. Shouldn't be sacked. Also, we're all cowards!

:rolleyes: You'd think Tony, of all people, would have some backbone against the IRFU.

Hmm...

It's the vitriol part that I don't like. I actually like Kidney, but I can offer a good few well-reasoned arguments about why he should go, without even a hint of vitriol. It's a lazy criticism of internet forums imo.

I'd rather a well-constructed post from an "anonymous coward" than the insane delusional blabbering from public voices such as Hook.

thomond2006 · 13-11-2012 6:45pm

Ward can **** off. We pay for the match tickets, buy the jerseys and merchandise. We finance the team, we are a key stakeholder to the team therefore we are entitled to have a voice.

Meanwhile hacks like Ward shít on us because he knows we can't respond to him publicly. What a pathetic piece of work he is.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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