Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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Teferi

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ward can **** off. We pay for the match tickets, buy the jerseys and merchandise. We finance the team, we are a key stakeholder to the team therefore we are entitled to have a voice.

Meanwhile hacks like Ward shít on us because he knows we can't respond to him publicly. What a pathetic piece of work he is.

You said this more eloquently than I ever could. Completely agree.

Ward:

Winning Pro12 leagues and even Heineken Cups does not translate as a matter of course into success at international level. It never did and never will.

Funny, when Munster were kicking arse and taking no prisoners in the Magners and HEC's that coincided with our national side (predominantly Munster players) doing pretty okay afair...

irishbucsfan

In fairness (and I don't want to agree with Ward) he said it doesn't translate as a matter of course, not that it doesn't translate at all.

It is a very important point that fans ignore at times. Leinster and Ulster are both dependent on things that Ireland don't possess, and probably won't possess during this squad's lifespan.

Although, it's no excuse for some of the rugby we've put on the field.

Scioch

Interesting bit on Strauss on the Journal.

Personally I thought it great he sung the national anthem and its kind of a pity that Bent was involved* as it took the shine off a really big night for Strauss. Stepping out as an Irish rugby player against the Boks. He played well, and seems as committed as anyone else in the squad to the green jersey.

*Not that Bent didnt do well, but I'd have liked it if they both had their chance to make their mark so it wouldnt be lumped into the one headline of "Johnny foreigner plays for Ireland".

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ward can **** off. We pay for the match tickets, buy the jerseys and merchandise. We finance the team, we are a key stakeholder to the team therefore we are entitled to have a voice.

Meanwhile hacks like Ward shít on us because he knows we can't respond to him publicly. What a pathetic piece of work he is.

Isn't Ward's main job a coach/teacher? (apart from being a former rugby international)! One of the few Irish men to have ever beaten the All-Blacks in a game. I might not agree with everything he says, but to equate him with the likes of Fanning & Kelly is just bull.

And you can respond to him publicly. At the bottom of the article. You can put your real name there as well if you want to, like he does.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Isn't Ward's main job a coach/teacher? (apart from being a former rugby international)! One of the few Irish men to have ever beaten the All-Blacks in a game. I might not agree with everything he says, but to equate him with the likes of Fanning & Kelly is just bull.

And you can respond to him publicly. At the bottom of the article. You can put your real name there as well if you want to, like he does.

Will he respond if you comment on that article? If he's just going to throw the grenade and run then I don't see the point

Banbridgeman2

Earls has had tons of games at 13 to 'develop' he is 25 and still very poor at 13 at international level. I'm sorry to say this but earls is the most overhyped player in Ireland. I would genuinely have McFadden and Griffin (and obviously Cave) ahead of him at this point. He STILL can't pass and regularly takes the wrong options, the only time he makes yards is when he's on the wing (surprise) the guy doesn't have the skills for 13, he's a decent wing but poor 13 and needs to be moved

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

Will he respond if you comment on that article? If he's just going to throw the grenade and run then I don't see the point

He will probably read the responses and if you make a decent point, he will probably write about it next week.

I can't imagine him replying to someone saying your "just a hack and we're entitled to rubbish the coaching staff because we buy tickets and go to matches."

(If that was the case, judging from the cheer that O'Gara got when he came on, Kidney should be giving the crowd what they want and starting O'Gara).

Cpt_Blackbeard

jm08 wrote: »

He will probably read the responses and if you make a decent point, he will probably write about it next week.

I can't imagine him replying to someone saying your "just a hack and we're entitled to rubbish the coaching staff because we buy tickets and go to matches."

(If that was the case, judging from the cheer that O'Gara got when he came on, Kidney should be giving the crowd what they want and starting O'Gara).

The cheer was probably more because D'Arcy was going off

Cpt_Blackbeard

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Earls has had tons of games at 13 to 'develop' he is 25 and still very poor at 13 at international level. I'm sorry to say this but earls is the most overhyped player in Ireland. I would genuinely have McFadden and Griffin (and obviously Cave) ahead of him at this point. He STILL can't pass and regularly takes the wrong options, the only time he makes yards is when he's on the wing (surprise) the guy doesn't have the skills for 13, he's a decent wing but poor 13 and needs to be moved

Just back from the ban and you're already off fanning the flames. You might be opening up banbridgeman3 pretty soon...

Banbridgeman2

By the way if Hurley is starting that's shocking. Utterly pointless selection, we learn nothing from starting him against fiji

clsmooth

jm08 wrote: »

Isn't Ward's main job a coach/teacher? (apart from being a former rugby international)! One of the few Irish men to have ever beaten the All-Blacks in a game. I might not agree with everything he says, but to equate him with the likes of Fanning & Kelly is just bull.

And you can respond to him publicly. At the bottom of the article. You can put your real name there as well if you want to, like he does.

I've always viewed Ward with suspicion as a rugby journalist. Very rarely have I read anything by him which has given any decent insight. This artice is particularly poor.

Bottom line is Kidney is incompetent as a coach in this current era. The rubbish he spouts in the media is ridicolous, and whatever 'psychological games' he's playing with the players arent working. 8 losses in the last 10 is appalling. Why shouldn't he be sacked? If any of us had the equivalent in our jobs we'd be out the door. At the end of the day, international rugby is a results game, and Kidney isn't delivering full stop. By Ward's reckoning we can lose another 8 out of 10 games and no questions should be asked. Absolute tripe.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

He will probably read the responses and if you make a decent point, he will probably write about it next week.

I can't imagine him replying to someone saying your "just a hack and we're entitled to rubbish the coaching staff because we buy tickets and go to matches."

(If that was the case, judging from the cheer that O'Gara got when he came on, Kidney should be giving the crowd what they want and starting O'Gara).

What does he expect if he writes:

Sadly, rugby is now heading the way of soccer, fuelled by pitiful websites and the anonymous vitriol of cowards.

Don't tell me you agree with that jm, please don't

clsmooth

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Earls has had tons of games at 13 to 'develop' he is 25 and still very poor at 13 at international level. I'm sorry to say this but earls is the most overhyped player in Ireland. I would genuinely have McFadden and Griffin (and obviously Cave) ahead of him at this point. He STILL can't pass and regularly takes the wrong options, the only time he makes yards is when he's on the wing (surprise) the guy doesn't have the skills for 13, he's a decent wing but poor 13 and needs to be moved

Spot on re: Earls. Most overhyped Irish player. Listening to people here, you'd think he was world class or even potentially world class. He's a very good finisher. That's about it. He hasn't improved much since 3yrs ago. Being called up to the Lions squad as a bolter in 2009 made his name. He didn't do much on that tour. I'd doubt he'll get near next years squad either. Leave him on the wing, play to his strengths which is his nose for the line. He just doesnt have the brain for 13 unfortunately. Next we'll be making Zebo our new 13.

jm08

I regard Ward more of a rugby fan than a journalist and he does have his failing (like generally giving the MOTM award to the outhalf of the winning team!), but he is still a rugby fan unlike Fanning and Kelly who are first and foremost hacks. I think he is spot on when he says that sacking the coach is going to turn Keith Earls into Brian O'Driscoll, or Chris Henry into Sean O'Brien/David Wallace, the most recent encumbents of the No. 7 Jersey.

I think you should read what he wrote and note what he says what we could do (instead of sacking the coaching staff).

CatFromHue

I usually like Wards articles but this one was a bit strange and I disagree with a fair bit of it. Though I do agree with some of it. Certainly looking at some of the other rugby forums I find funny but scary as these guys are trying to be serious!

Ward says we played to our maximum but I don't think we did and in his third last paragraph he says "we are bereft of accuracy, craft, guile and potency across the backline". He also goes on to say how we can't compete with the big three unless we're at full strength but then goes on to acknowledge how well the stand ins played.

So he kind of contradicts himself in the article.

jamiedav2011

Ward says:

Therein lies the core of the issue – as of now we're just not good enough to compete with and beat RWC Band 1 nations. Yes, we will pull the odd rabbit out of the hat – that has always been the case – but when it comes to consistency we're not at the races.

However, this issue and the coaching issue are in absolutely no way mutually exclusive. Not remotely.

A proper playing structure, a coach with up to date strategies, a coach with a pair of balls to drop underperformers and proper succession plans would have us in far, far better stead as a rugby nation.

No, I have to say this article is utter rubbish. By the way, 'anonymous cowards' like us pay Tony Ward's journalistic wages.

I'd wager that he, and his ilk in the media, are the cowards in this instance.

jamiedav2011

CatFromHue wrote: »

I usually like Wards articles but this one was a bit strange and I disagree with a fair bit of it. Though I do agree with some of it. Certainly looking at some of the other rugby forums I find funny but scary as these guys are trying to be serious!

Ward says we played to our maximum but I don't think we did and in his third last paragraph he says "we are bereft of accuracy, craft, guile and potency across the backline". He also goes on to say how we can't compete with the big three unless we're at full strength but then goes on to acknowledge how well the stand ins played.

So he kind of contradicts himself in the article.

Plus he says:

To suggest South Africa losing as many as 15 front-line players compares in any way with our injury list is also abject nonsense.

How was that South Africa team 'better resourced' or 'the most physical rugby-playing forwards on the planet' in that case.

Let's be honest, this was in reality a shallow SA side.

bilston

I like Tony Ward, I love his enthusiasm when he commentates and yes he is genuinely a fan of the sport.

However I really hate it when journalists have a go at MBs. We are fans, we pay our hard earn cash to go to matches, we pay for the replica shirts etc and quite frankly we're damn well entitled to our opinions and to call us cowards is frankly disgusting. If the views of the paying public don't count then we're in a very bad place.

Fishooks12

I think Earls is fine at 13 right now. I'd still like to see Cave get a run there but what happens if he doesn't fit the mold at international level, we'll be in dire straights

Earl's best position is 11, he's one of the best finishers in the NH IMO. But given the injuries we have right now I'm glad he's able to fill in at 13 too. Although I think himself and Darcy make an awful pairing

Gambas

Fireball07 wrote: »

I'd rather a well-constructed post from an "anonymous coward" than the insane delusional blabbering from public voices such as Hook.

I think the problem is that the well-constructed posts on d'internets tend to be outnumbered by delusional blabberings that would make Hook seem like Edmund Burke.

Quint2010

Ward seems like a decent bloke but I just can't read his articles. They are full of cliche's eg "personifies honesty". He just waffles. I like his commentating mind.

durkadurka

Depends. If you read comments on articles in the newspapers , or comments I Facebook pages you would indeed consider people to be pathetic, cowardly, ludicrously provincial etc.
But some sites are *ahem* slightly better modded than others. There's a fair few idiots in every village though it must be said .

Fishooks12

Gambas wrote: »

I think the problem is that the well-constructed posts on d'internets tend to be outnumbered by delusional blabberings that would make Hook seem like Edmund Burke.

This.

Plus we're guilty of sometimes lumping all Irish rugby journalists into the Hook/ Thornley boat of mediocrity so it's not as though we're not guilty of generalizing ourselves

Fishooks12

durkadurka wrote: »

Depends. If you read comments on articles in the newspapers , or comments I Facebook pages you would indeed consider people to be pathetic, cowardly, ludicrously provincial etc.
But some sites are *ahem* slightly better modded than others. There's a fair few idiots in every village though it must be said .

Good point. The comments section on the score.ie and The Irish Times in particular are full of absolute plebs

And we've got a few around here too

Fireball07

Gambas wrote: »

I think the problem is that the well-constructed posts on d'internets tend to be outnumbered by delusional blabberings that would make Hook seem like Edmund Burke.

Obviously these sites are filled with trolls and others who just don't have a clue but the main difference I can see is that if you make a post like that here, you tend to be called out on it... while some journalists can write pretty much anything they want without anyone calling them out (well there are comment sections but I doubt they read them tbh). And they do get paid for their articles too.

I do think the likes of facebook pages and stuff does tend to attract plenty of terrible comments but a lot of those would be part-time fans, often blinded by agendas of their own.

Benny Cake

Ward makes an interesting point regarding the anonymity of us as posters. How many of us, myself included, would post/speak as we do here if we couldn't hide behind our usernames?

Hagz

Benny Cake wrote: »

Ward makes an interesting point regarding the anonymity of us as posters. How many of us, myself included, would post/speak as we do here if we couldn't hide behind our usernames?

I don't think anyone would say anything on here that they wouldn't say in a rugby discussion down in their local. Besides there a some regular posters on here who have made their identity known. The reality is that it's not exactly a wise decision to use your real name on any internet discussion forum. That would be the reason people use usernames, not because they are too cowardly to take ownership of their opinion.

Fishooks12

Hagz wrote: »

I don't think anyone would say anything on here that they wouldn't say in a rugby discussion down in their local. Besides there a some regular posters on here who have made their identity known. The reality is that it's not exactly a wise decision to use your real name on any internet discussion forum. That would be the reason people use usernames, not because they are too cowardly to take ownership of their opinion.

Ya I mean It's pretty easy to track down who I am. And I've certainly left links and stuff that contained my twitter.. Don't think I've said anything on here I'd have a problem saying in public