Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Scioch

jm08 wrote: »

Ward, like a lot of commentators think you are misguided if you think that sacking the coach is going to solve all the problems (like they are forever doing in soccer - sack the manager, get a new one, lose a few games, sack him, get another one, win a few games, then lose a few games, sack him). The soccer managers are making a fortune out of it. They rest for a year or so and then they get a job in another club - how many times has Mick McCarthy being sacked and rehired ). Sunderland are still towards the bottom of the premiership heading for where he left them).

Nobody here is looking at it like that. Kidney has been in charge for enough time now to improve the team and he just hasnt done that. In fact he's done the opposite. If you dont take the view that a head coach who fails to produce the goods should get the boot then we would never ever make progress.

And the current injuries and the game against the Boks is irrelevant to the Kidneys argument. We all wanted him gone before it and we seen nothing in that game to change our mind. So all the talk now is just a continuation of what went on before. People using the injuries as an excuse are just trying to hide the fact that the jig was up with Kidney prior to the world cup. The result on Saturday whether win or loss was never going to make a difference to Kidney being a failure of a coach.

jm08

goreyguy wrote: »

I'm not sure anyone has suggested that said sacking Kidney will solve all of the problems, but it will solve the biggest problem, Kidney being in charge in the first place.

He has had 4 years and the last two years have been terrible by any measuring stick. That's hardly a comparison to what goes on in soccer.

So basically you think he should be sacked because you don't like him.

Warran Gatland achieved a grand slam in his first year (2008) and basically did nothing again until a year ago (world cup), four years after he got the job. He was awarded a new 4 year contract just after Wales had in their 3 previous seasons come 4th in the 6Ns and had only once managed to beat one SH Tri-Nations team (Aus) in the Millenium stadium despite playing Australia about 7 times.

In that time, the worst Ireland has been is 3rd in the 6Ns. Even France has got a 4th in that period.

Scioch

JustinDee wrote: »

Having read the article, I think some are taking what he mentions about people posting anonymously on the web too much to heart. Its obvious he has somebody in mind. Doesn't necessarily mean that its actually you.

As for his opinion on the squad's management, it is just that: opinion. No biggie. Take it or leave it.
I generally just read match reports myself. Matt Williams wrote something I disagreed with the other week. I tweeted him . . . but no bite. Hoped to bump into him at stadium on Saturday? Didn't seem to be at game.
Life goes on.

Maybe track him down at his home and ask him why he's ignoring you ? If he's not there just leave a nice note written in your own blood on his front door.

JustinDee

Scioch wrote: »

Maybe track him down at his home and ask him why he's ignoring you ? If he's not there just leave a nice note written in your own blood on his front door.

Good idea. If he ever brings the Irish Wolfhound breed into disrepute again, its mitts off from then on . . .

goreyguy

jm08 wrote: »

So basically you think he should be sacked because you don't like him.

No he should be sacked because the team is under performing and as the Coach its his responsibility to get results, he hasn't been getting them.

jm08

Fishooks12 wrote: »

He's not exactly struggling to pay the bills on the salaries he's been on for the last ten years either in fairness

Rugby playing and coaching staff don't earn anything like their soccer counterparts and certainly not enough to be able to not work.

Mr.Opti

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Earls has had tons of games at 13 to 'develop' he is 25 and still very poor at 13 at international level. I'm sorry to say this but earls is the most overhyped player in Ireland. I would genuinely have McFadden and Griffin (and obviously Cave) ahead of him at this point. He STILL can't pass and regularly takes the wrong options, the only time he makes yards is when he's on the wing (surprise) the guy doesn't have the skills for 13, he's a decent wing but poor 13 and needs to be moved

Rubbish.

1. He is not a poor player
2. Earls is better then McFadden on the wing and at 13
3. Yes he can pass, had one bad pass on Saturday
4. He normally makes yards. With his pace and step he makes quiet a few!!
5. He is a very good wing and no way in hell is he a poor 13!! People are comparing him to BOD who is one of the best players ever in his position

And I'm done reading & reply to any of your replies

.ak

Okay folks, I can see where a lot of this is going - any more off topic jabs at posters will be dealt with harshly upon review. Attack the post, not the poster as always.

Fishooks12

jm08 wrote: »

Rugby playing and coaching staff don't earn anything like their soccer counterparts and certainly not enough to be able to not work.

300 or 400k a year is plenty.

You'd swear if he got sacked he'd be out on the street

I actually can't believe there's even an argument being made against sacking Kidney given the horrendous results and performances put in by the national team over his tenure

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Rugby playing and coaching staff don't earn anything like their soccer counterparts and certainly not enough to be able to not work.

ah but sure we're so lucky to have him, he'll surely be in massive demand elsewhere and will get a job as a Head Coach at Toulouse or Clermont with his history of Squad Development and knowledge of Modern Rugby. In fact, we are probably holding him back, as our squad are clearly inept at rugby, nobody in the squad able to win 3 of the last 4 HECs, or maintain current unbeaten runs in the RaboPro12, or have ~ 30 Irish players involved in the HEC final in the last 5 months.

Are you really turning this into a "Ah Poor old Declan" conversation?

Sure he fixed the road! And he's a good lad. And he's got kids. Ah let him away with ineptitude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsnLyHKWtrg

Fishooks12

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Rubbish.

1. He is not a poor player
2. Earls is better then McFadden on the wing and at 13
3. Yes he can pass, had one bad pass on Saturday
4. He normally makes yards. With his pace and step he makes quiet a few!!
5. He is a very good wing and no way in hell is he a poor 13!! People are comparing him to BOD who is one of the best players ever in his position

And I'm done reading & reply to any of your replies

+1

Talking to the wall comes to mind too

jm08

Fishooks12 wrote: »

300 or 400k a year is plenty.

You'd swear if he got sacked he'd be out on the street

I actually can't believe there's even an argument being made against sacking Kidney given the horrendous results and performances put in by the national team over his tenure

Are you sure about those figures. I remember hearing what EOS got and it was nothing like that.

I was also shocked to hear what Browne (and the Sec Gen of the GAA was earning). They certainly were not in their jobs for the money.

Fishooks12

jm08 wrote: »

Are you sure about those figures. I remember hearing what EOS got and it was nothing like that.

I was also shocked to hear what Browne (and the Sec Gen of the GAA was earning). They certainly were not in their jobs for the money.

Nope it's an educated guess.

So are you saying that Kidney deserves an extension? Just to clarify

jm08

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Nope it's an educated guess.

So are you saying that Kidney deserves an extension? Just to clarify

I think EOS was on about 180K - I wouldn't imagine Kidney is on much more.

I think Kidney deserves a bit of respect and humanity. Its up to the IRFU to make an informed decision when the time comes whether he gets a new contract or not.

Lelantos

goreyguy wrote: »

No he should be sacked because the team is under performing and as the Coach its his responsibility to get results, he hasn't been getting them.

That is a matter of opinion, there are people here that believe we should be winning grand slams as a matter of course. They seem to forget we punch way above our weight at club level & that realistically, with our player pool, we are probably only very slightly underperforming.

durkadurka

Of all the crappy answers in all the forums in all the world.

goreyguy

Kidney will get plenty of respect if he acknowledges he has brought the team as far as possible and makes the decision for the IRFU.

Tox56

Lelantos wrote: »

That is a matter of opinion, there are people here that believe we should be winning grand slams as a matter of course. They seem to forget we punch way above our weight at club level & that realistically, with our player pool, we are probably only very slightly underperforming.

What are you basing this on? Do you think Leinster are punching above their weight for example?

Lelantos

eRzZr.jpg

durkadurka wrote: »

Of all the crappy answers in all the forums in all the world.

Clegg

The apologism here is disgusting. It's very clear that Kidney doesn't know what he's doing anymore. Just look at our gameplan which is basically bashing it up with the forwards. It's been our only tactic for the last few years and it doesn't work.

No-one is asking for complicated backs move or dazzling tries. We want a coherent strategy that plays to the strengths of our squad. Earls is a great finisher and has plenty of pace, and Bowe is an excellent footballer who is adept at coming in from the wing and taking offloads to break the line. But we don't play to their strengths. Bowe is marooned on his wing and we're trying to make Earls a centre when he's so much better on the wing.

Kidney is finished. He was the right man at the right time for Ireland. The ELV's in 2009 suited his tactics perfectly and he coached us to a grand slam. But since then we've done nothing but go backwards. I remember the argument that Irish success in the Heineken Cup is what led to a succssful national team. Well over the last four years Leinster have won the competition three times and Ulster have been finalists. Why has it now been declared that Ireland don't have the players to succeed at international level?

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Its up to the IRFU to make an informed decision when the time comes whether he gets a new contract or not.

I don't trust them. Particularly after giving Kidney a contract extension just before the RWC after the same move blew up in their face so drastically only 4 effin years ago.

durkadurka

Lelantos wrote: »

eRzZr.jpg

Sorry lelantos, not aimed at you

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

What are you basing this on? Do you think Leinster are punching above their weight for example?

We've won 5 Heineken Cups since 2006. English teams have won 1, French teams have won 1. Welsh, Scottish and Italians teams have never won in their history. If you went on club rugby alone you could assume Ireland is the greatest rugby country in the world. I wish that was true!

It's thanks to many things, our provincial structure, central contracts, the tax break, many more I'm sure (not going to touch on the comeptition structure itself!). Leinster are just as good as their results, but it's the factors that make them good that he is (I think) referring to.

I don't think you could say that it's because rugby in Ireland is far far stronger than all the other countries, which is what our results indicate.

Podge_irl

Lelantos wrote: »

They seem to forget we punch way above our weight at club level & that realistically, with our player pool, we are probably only very slightly underperforming.

What's our weight and what weight are we punching at? That's such a tired old cliché that I am sick of hearing.

Our clubs for the last 12 years have been consistently competitive in Europe and have been the leading clubs for much of the last 7. They are punching at exactly their bloody weight.

Edit: which is not to say that the provincial system hasn't given Ireland some benefits over the club system in France/England. I don't think that a successful Leinster should automatically mean a successful Ireland. I am, however, tired of people writing it off as an irrelevance and implying their is absolutely no correlation.

Lelantos

Tox56 wrote: »

What are you basing this on? Do you think Leinster are punching above their weight for example?

Take Leinster out of the Rabo, place them in the Top 14 & then see how often they qualify for the HC, nevermind win it. Regardless of what is said, or thought, the Rabo is an easy route into the HC.

Lelantos

durkadurka wrote: »

Sorry lelantos, not aimed at you

Not yet, but there may be a Mohammed jihad moment coming soon

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

What's our weight and what weight are we punching at? That's such a tired old cliché that I am sick of hearing.

Our clubs for the last 12 years have been consistently competitive in Europe and have been the leading clubs for much of the last 7. They are punching at exactly their bloody weight.

Edit: which is not to say that the provincial system hasn't given Ireland some benefits over the club system in France/England. I don't think that a successful Leinster should automatically mean a successful Ireland. I am, however, tired of people writing it off as an irrelevance and implying their is absolutely no correlation.

I think that it really helped the national side that all/most the pack came from Munster and all the backs came from Leinster. Now its far more mixed up, so the advantage of having your tight five, half-backs, outside backs training together and playing every week together in units was a huge advantage for Ireland.

Fishooks12

jm08 wrote: »

I think that it really helped the national side that all/most the pack came from Munster and all the backs came from Leinster. Now its far more mixed up, so the advantage of having your tight five, half-backs, outside backs training together and playing every week together in units was a huge advantage for Ireland.

ah come on.

Lelantos

Podge_irl wrote: »

What's our weight and what weight are we punching at? That's such a tired old cliché that I am sick of hearing.

Our clubs for the last 12 years have been consistently competitive in Europe and have been the leading clubs for much of the last 7. They are punching at exactly their bloody weight.

Edit: which is not to say that the provincial system hasn't given Ireland some benefits over the club system in France/England. I don't think that a successful Leinster should automatically mean a successful Ireland. I am, however, tired of people writing it off as an irrelevance and implying their is absolutely no correlation.

Ok, the HC is geared beautifully for Irish teams to do well. They can concentrate on the competition, generally throw their squad players into 75% of rabo games & expect a win. French teams can't afford to do this, they live & die by top14. On the international scene the field is level, and we come up short, Kidney was called a great coach, so was EOS & so was the current Lions coach, yet all were/are hounded out of the Irish job.
Yes, the buck stops with the coach, but, we aren't as good a combined unit as we think we are. We possibly have 5 world class players in the country.How many would get into the AB's? We have 120 pro players, its not a sleight on our team, what other country has as small a pool as ours & continues to "punch above their weight" to the extent we do?

jm08

Fishooks12 wrote: »

ah come on.

Look, its simple. Practice makes perfect. Having Jerry Flannery, POC & DOC & Hayes practicing the lineout every day means they are going to perfect it. Same with having Horan, Flannery & Hayes practicing their scrummaging together rather than meeting up a week before a match. Peter Stringer didn't even have to look because he knew where O'Gara would be.

It gave Ireland an edge.