Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Foxtrol

Podge_irl wrote: »

Can't put people into the national team on the back of U20s football though.

Capt has a point - and its not really Leinster players that are getting overlooked. A few Ulster players have understandable grievances. Today's selection is pretty good though (Hurley aside) - it will be interesting to see if anyone is rewarded for a good performance next week.

I never said to put them into the national side, Capt was having a dig that there were no Leinster players coming through. I pointed him to the recent few years Under 20's sides as I'd be much more worried if I was a Munster fan.

From a Leinster point of view Madigan has been overlooked consistently despite completely outclassing ROG for a year now. Ruddock, Ryan, McGrath (should be ahead of Kilcoyne already) will be the next ones knocking on the door followed by the raft of under 20's from the last 2 years.

It's not just a Leinster issue though, its an Ulster (more so)and Connacht problem.

Tox56

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Anyone think that young Munster players have been getting a shot because they've been producing and giving gametime to the most young players over the last two years. Now that Ulster are producing the best young lads, they are getting a shot.

Most of the complaining has been coming from Leinster fans and it can be easily explained. Leinster don't have the young players coming through.

Don't suppose you have been on the Ulster rugby forum recently?

EDIT: Or even the Connacht one for that matter.

CatFromHue

Foxtrol wrote: »

its an Ulster (more so)and Connacht problem.

Bingo!

Fireball07

As long as McGrath is 3rd choice at Leinster and not playing HC, he can't really be selected for Ireland.


I obviously disagree strongly that Leinster have no youngsters coming through, but I would say that the biggest group of young players who are knocking on the Ireland door would be from Ulster tbh.

But Zebo certainly deserves to be in the Irish team, and both POM & Murray have strong claims to be in the squad. As for Kilcoyne, not much between him and Buckley, I would have been happy with either tbh.

As for Madigan, he's a very talented player, but Jackson has been in better form. A big problem for Leinster's young players is that lots of them are behind frontline internationals. But if the likes of Ryan, Ruddock and Dave Kearney can stay fit, I'm sure they'll push for places.

Podge_irl

Foxtrol wrote: »

I never said to put them into the national side, Capt was having a dig that there were no Leinster players coming through. I pointed him to the recent few years Under 20's sides as I'd be much more worried if I was a Munster fan.

From a Leinster point of view Madigan has been overlooked consistently despite completely outclassing ROG for a year now. Ruddock, Ryan, McGrath (should be ahead of Kilcoyne already) will be the next ones knocking on the door followed by the raft of under 20's from the last 2 years.

It's not just a Leinster issue though, its an Ulster (more so)and Connacht problem.

Whether it was intended as a dig or not, its a valid point. No young players have broken into the Leinster team properly in quite some time. Madigan probably could have seen some squads - though I wouldn't trust him in an international tbh - but that is more a ROG problem than a Munster problem.

The overlooking of Ulster and the odd Connacht player is glaring though (as is a comparison with the young Leinster players of a couple years ago).

molloyjh

And to think this all started off so agreeably and in such an adult manner....

JRant

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Anyone think that young Munster players have been getting a shot because they've been producing and giving gametime to the most young players over the last two years. Now that Ulster are producing the best young lads, they are getting a shot.

Most of the complaining has been coming from Leinster fans and it can be easily explained. Leinster don't have the young players coming through.

Well the answer is quite obviously no.

Donning the Irish jersey I can honestly say I've no problem with young Munster lads getting a shot. What I do have a problem with is only young Munster players being given the opportunity.

Looking at Irish team sheets over the past 2 years you'd think it was only Munster producing good young players. This is clearly a nonsense as there are great prospects at all provinces now.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Foxtrol wrote: »

The under 20's teams from the last few years tell a different story.

They definitely do, but there haven't been many players who've made the step up from that level to the senior team.

Foxtrol

Podge_irl wrote: »

Whether it was intended as a dig or not, its a valid point. No young players have broken into the Leinster team properly in quite some time. Madigan probably could have seen some squads - though I wouldn't trust him in an international tbh - but that is more a ROG problem than a Munster problem.

The overlooking of Ulster and the odd Connacht player is glaring though (as is a comparison with the young Leinster players of a couple years ago).

That's the point. Leinster young players were overlooked a couple of years ago, now Ulster and Connacht players are also being overlooked while Munster players are being fast tracked at every possible opportunity.

Hagz

Unfortunately, although Leinster have been producing the bulk of recent u20 teams, they have the much more difficult task after those tournaments, of trying to break into what has been called by some 'the greatest Heineken Cup squad of all time'. Would Henderson be in the Irish set-up if he was from Leinster? Would Kilcoyne be in the Irish set-up if he was in Leinster? Much more examples can be drawn upon.

Foxtrol

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

They definitely do, but there haven't been many players who've made the step up from that level to the senior team.

I think I could list out a few who have as many caps for Leinster as Murray or Kilcoyne had when they got led into the Irish setup by Uncle Deccie, and dont get me started on a certain Stephen Archer being brought into the squad.

shuffol

What young Leinster players are people griping about anyway? There's nobody putting their hand up at the minute bar Toner. Just on Healy, he'd a couple of tough days in the scrum for Ireland when he first broke through, coincidentally he'd an ageing Hayes and Tony Buckley at TH for his first few caps, when Mike Ross finally got his chance our scrum problems magically disappeared. As for Leinster I can only really remember him getting a proper roasting once(first half of 2011 final aside) and that was against Tououse in 2010, I'd wager that Toulouse scrum was one of the strongest in the history of the HEC.

Hagz

shuffol wrote: »

What young Leinster players are people griping about anyway? .

None. The argument isn't about young Leinster players not getting what they deserve. Someone said Leinster don't have young Leinster players coming through, when the reality is the current team is too strong to break into. That's all.

molloyjh

Hagz wrote: »

None. The argument isn't about young Leinster players not getting what they deserve. Someone said Leinster don't have young Leinster players coming through, when the reality is the current team is too strong to break into. That's all.

And the age profile of the side is still relatively young. The average age of the first XV is about 28-29.

Foxtrol

Prediction - This match to be used by some posters to cement the position of certain players while at the same time dismissing the performances of others due to the poor showing by Fiji.

Should be an interesting and probably infuriating week to come.

molloyjh

Foxtrol wrote: »

Prediction - This match to be used by some posters to cement the position of certain players while at the same time dismissing the performances of others due to the poor showing by Fiji.

Should be an interesting and probably infuriating week to come.

May need to give this place a miss for a bit.

Lelantos

molloyjh wrote: »

May need to give this place a miss for a bit.

+ 203,629

gally74

Even thou gilroy looked better than Zeno last year, kidney brought Zeno into the int set up early he has to accept gilroy and Marshall now

Clegg

Darcy has lost it and Wallace never really had it. Draft Luke Marshall into the 22 for the Argentina game.

He's the best young 12 we have. Mc Sharry has been decent but he's a bit too fond of the bosh imo.

its_phil

Clegg wrote: »

Mc Sharry has been decent but he's a bit too fond of the bosh imo.

Well that's just not true. Please see Quins and Leinster tries for reference.

He is a very good direct runner but more than capable of picking a line and holding a line to put Griffin in.

Not trying to take anything from Marshall, he was outstanding tonight and a close second with McFadden for MOTM imo

Scioch

Clegg wrote: »

Darcy has lost it and Wallace never really had it. Draft Luke Marshall into the 22 for the Argentina game.

He's the best young 12 we have. Mc Sharry has been decent but he's a bit too fond of the bosh imo.

No chance he'll get into the 22 for Argentina. Its a must win game. Zero chance for anything but conservatism. I'm half thinking Hurley will start too. See no other reason for him being involved today. Kidney wont be taking any chances.

irishbucsfan

Scioch wrote: »

No chance he'll get into the 22 for Argentina. Its a must win game. Zero chance for anything but conservatism. I'm half thinking Hurley will start too. See no other reason for him being involved today. Kidney wont be taking any chances.

We'll see this weekend. You seem to be creating an image of Kidney in your head that doesn't really exist. He has taken risks in the past.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We'll see this weekend. You seem to be creating an image of Kidney in your head that doesn't really exist. He has taken risks in the past.

Few and far between. He's hardly known for it.

ScissorPaperRock

.ak wrote: »

Few and far between. He's hardly known for it.

I wonder if the score margin would have been as high if last week's 15 had been played today (assuming they had all fully recovered).

Ireland hasn't looked like scoring many tries in a while.

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

Few and far between. He's hardly known for it.

He's not known for it, but there have been a good few examples of him taking a risk (even just last week).

I will be extremely disappointed and even surprised if Marshall isn't involved.

.ak

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

I wonder if the score margin would have been as high if last week's 15 had been played today (assuming they had all fully recovered).

Ireland hasn't looked like scoring many tries in a while.

Somebody mentioned that to me whilst watching the game... and I don't think we would've scored as many tries tbh.. But we still would've dominated them easily.

Scioch

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We'll see this weekend. You seem to be creating an image of Kidney in your head that doesn't really exist. He has taken risks in the past.

I think its fair to say the guy is pretty conservative. I dont recall him taking many risks when his hand wasnt forced. What people see as a risk in Murray was a conservative move to boost defence at the expense of attack. Zebo against SA was forced and there was nothing riding on the game.

In this game where we must win it to gain a second seed in the WC and we are missing so many first choice players he wont be taking risks where it can be avoided I dont think given he's not prone to doing so at the best of times with fully fit squads. I dont see how I'm exaggerating anything.

irishbucsfan

Scioch wrote: »

I think its fair to say the guy is pretty conservative. I dont recall him taking many risks when his hand wasnt forced. What people see as a risk in Murray was a conservative move to boost defence at the expense of attack. Zebo against SA was forced and there was nothing riding on the game.

In this game where we must win it to gain a second seed in the WC and we are missing so many first choice players he wont be taking risks where it can be avoided I dont think given he's not prone to doing so at the best of times with fully fit squads. I dont see how I'm exaggerating anything.

Well what happened the last time we played Fiji with a crucial game the next week? He dropped ROG for Sexton. His hand certainly wasn't forced that time.

Obviously he's very conservative. He does throw the odd spanner in the works though.

mfceiling

Think the problem with kidneys selections/gameplans are that he sets up the team to defend well and to try and not lose rather than sending out a team to grab the game and try to win it.

irishbucsfan

shuffol wrote: »

Yes but generally only with players from certain provinces

Ian Henderson on the bench last week?