Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well what happened the last time we played Fiji with a crucial game the next week? He dropped ROG for Sexton. His hand certainly wasn't forced that time.

Except he really should have done it against Aus the game before. But I would hope some players would follow a similar tack into the Irish team.

I would genuinely expect Marshall to be involved in some capacity. Its notable that he was brought into the original squad and I think he is seen as the successor to D'Arcy. I don't think he'll start, but I wouldn't completely rule it out.

I'd like to see Jackson on the bench, but I'm not so sure that will happen.

Clegg

The D'arcy of 2012 wouldn't have set up or scored the tries that Marshall did. He just isn't quick enough to that anymore.

D'arcy was a brilliant centre for Leinster and Ireland but he doesn't have the speed to ghost around players or the power to get over the gainline. The last time he was able to do both was 2008.

I'll remember him fondly as he was brilliant when at his best. But it's really time to choose a new 12 for Ireland.

Scioch

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well what happened the last time we played Fiji with a crucial game the next week? He dropped ROG for Sexton. His hand certainly wasn't forced that time.

Obviously he's very conservative. He does throw the odd spanner in the works though.

I cant remember the last time we played Fiji I have a memory of a goldfish.

shuffol

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ian Henderson on the bench last week?

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Deleted it as I didnt want to open that can of worms again. Hendersons a fair enough shout but that was primarily injury enforced and the only alternative was Locky who I dont think Kidney rates. Hendersons pretty much as good a prospect as you could get too. He hasnt shown much inclination to drop D'arcy, I'd still be reasonably hopeful he might though, its a fairly obvious move to make.

shuffol

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well what happened the last time we played Fiji with a crucial game the next week? He dropped ROG for Sexton. His hand certainly wasn't forced that time.

Obviously he's very conservative. He does throw the odd spanner in the works though.

You cant compare the Kidney of 2009 with that of 2012. I think as the pressure's grown over the years he's retreated further into conservatism.

Scioch

Clegg wrote: »

The D'arcy of 2012 wouldn't have set up or scored the tries that Marshall did. He just isn't quick enough to that anymore.

D'arcy was a brilliant centre for Leinster and Ireland but he doesn't have the speed to ghost around players or the power to get over the gainline. The last time he was able to do both was 2008.

I'll remember him fondly as he was brilliant when at his best. But it's really time to choose a new 12 for Ireland.

He's still an incredibly physical player though, capable of breaking the gain line and solid in defence. Imo he's still an international standard 12, the only one we have got. I cant see him being dropped suddenly but I think Marshall is going to be phased in during the next 6 nations. I cant see him involved against Argentina or even next year against the bigger 6 nations sides if Darcy is fit. Even then we might see Earls at 12. Who knows with Kidney.

irishbucsfan

shuffol wrote: »

You cant compare the Kidney of 2009 with that of 2012. I think as the pressure's grown over the years he's retreated further into conservatism.

You can't compare the results, but i think he was pretty conservative in 2009 personally.

Mr.Opti

Scioch wrote: »

He's still an incredibly physical player though, capable of breaking the gain line and solid in defence. Imo he's still an international standard 12, the only one we have got.

There's your creditably gone!!!

shuffol

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You can't compare the results, but i think he was pretty conservative in 2009 personally.

Wouldnt agree, 3 unenforced changes against Scotland in the middle of the grand slam run, as you said Sexton brought in against South Africa despite O'Gara still being a quality player. SOB capped against South Africa too.

Scioch

Mr.Opti wrote: »

There's your creditably gone!!!

Who else do we have ? Or your saying he's not international standard ? He did well at the WC and has performed consistently since. Even below his previous standards he's still our best option. If he's not international standard then god help us when he's gone.

shuffol

Scioch wrote: »

He's still an incredibly physical player though, capable of breaking the gain line and solid in defence. Imo he's still an international standard 12, the only one we have got. I cant see him being dropped suddenly but I think Marshall is going to be phased in during the next 6 nations. I cant see him involved against Argentina or even next year against the bigger 6 nations sides if Darcy is fit. Even then we might see Earls at 12. Who knows with Kidney.

Disagree on both counts, rarely breaks the line these days, can get over the gainline but its generally through scrapping for a few metres, invariably it results in slow ball and the defence having time to reset, he certainly doesnt punch holes in the defensive line. His defence has grown increasingly shaky for me, JDV ran through him on a couple of occasions last week.

irishbucsfan

shuffol wrote: »

Wouldnt agree, 3 unenforced changes against Scotland in the middle of the grand slam run, as you said Sexton brought in against South Africa despite O'Gara still being a quality player. SOB capped against South Africa too.

Hardly any changes outside that, and even then the players he dropped were put on the bench and brought on early.

The tour of North America brought mostly established players or older guys who were never going to be proper internationals like Ian Dowling and Bryan Young, with the young promising guys only being brought over for the A games. Then you had the Fijj game where he started an almost entirely 1st team:

Rob Kearney; Shane Horgan, Brian O'Driscoll (capt), Gordon D'Arcy, Keith Earls; Jonathan Sexton, Eoin Reddan; Tom Court, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes, Leo Cullen, Paul O'Connell, Stephen Ferris, Denis Leamy, Jamie Heaslip.

Despite guys like SOB surely deserving a shot.

I think he's been very consistently conservative since he's started with Ireland, but he generally rewards good performances.

ScissorPaperRock

Scioch wrote: »

Who else do we have ? Or your saying he's not international standard ? He did well at the WC and has performed consistently since. Even below his previous standards he's still our best option. If he's not international standard then god help us when he's gone.

Just being the devil's advocate here but whether or not Darcy is an international quality player doesn't really depend on whether there have been viable alternatives.


FWIW I think we need someone more threatening in that position.


Edit: I think you changed your post! :P

Scioch

shuffol wrote: »

Disagree on both counts, rarely breaks the line these days, can get over the gainline but its generally through scrapping for a few metres, invariably it results in slow ball and the defence having time to reset, he certainly doesnt punch holes in the defensive line. His defence has grown increasingly shaky for me, JDV ran through him on a couple of occasions last week.

While winding down in those areas I still think he's a solid option. He's not going to be impenetrable, certainly not at this stage in his career. Roberts was flatten by a scrum half too, players will get done on occasion. Darcy is on the way out, his defence and line breaking ability are diminishing, no doubt about it. But I'd still be confident of him doing a decent job at that level. Something I cant say about any other 12 available to us at the current moment.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

I never said to put them into the national side, Capt was having a dig that there were no Leinster players coming through. I pointed him to the recent few years Under 20's sides as I'd be much more worried if I was a Munster fan.

From a Leinster point of view Madigan has been overlooked consistently despite completely outclassing ROG for a year now. Ruddock, Ryan, McGrath (should be ahead of Kilcoyne already) will be the next ones knocking on the door followed by the raft of under 20's from the last 2 years.

It's not just a Leinster issue though, its an Ulster (more so)and Connacht problem.

That is probably all down to the U20s coach being a former Leinster coach, whose 2 sons have been employed by Leinster rugby and who coach a Leinster club (Lansdowne) where a lot of the U20s play

Then his boss was an Ulsterman (who was assistant coaching the U20s) and has recently gone back to Ulster to head up their Academy:D.

That might explain how so many young Ulster players who were getting selected for the U20s seem to have all given up pro-rugby now.

Surely some people must be scratching their head how JJ Hanrahan can be shortlisted for JRWP of the year who only got to play there because the original choice was withdrawn and who almost certainly would have been the starting oh as he was going to be made captain?

Mr.Opti

Scioch wrote: »

Who else do we have ? Or your saying he's not international standard ? He did well at the WC and has performed consistently since. Even below his previous standards he's still our best option. If he's not international standard then god help us when he's gone.

He is not International Standard & good enough! He adds nothing to the Irish team, runs horrible lines (for Ireland), hogs the ball and lacks creativity!!

Marshal is better & McFadden, Luke Fitz & even McSherry (slight hyperbole) at this stage!!!

Most people don't want Darcy to start and the sooner he is gone the better IMO

shuffol

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Hardly any changes outside that, and even then the players he dropped were put on the bench and brought on early.

The tour of North America brought mostly established players or older guys who were never going to be proper internationals like Ian Dowling and Bryan Young, with the young promising guys only being brought over for the A games. Then you had the Fijj game where he started an almost entirely 1st team:



Despite guys like SOB surely deserving a shot.

I think he's been very consistently conservative since he's started with Ireland, but he generally rewards good performances.

There was Felix Jones starting in the churchill cup too despite having next to no provincial exposure, he wasnt great but better than recently IMO. SOB wasnt even in the Leinster first XV when he was included as sub against South Africa. Mclaughlin and Jennings were ahead of him that season though he came into the side at 7 when Jennings got his 12 week ban.

shuffol

jm08 wrote: »

That is probably all down to the U20s coach being a former Leinster coach, whose 2 sons have been employed by Leinster rugby and who coach a Leinster club (Lansdowne) where a lot of the U20s play

Then his boss was an Ulsterman (who was assistant coaching the U20s) and has recently gone back to Ulster to head up their Academy:D.

That might explain how so many young Ulster players who were getting selected for the U20s seem to have all given up pro-rugby now.

Surely some people must be scratching their head how JJ Hanrahan can be shortlisted for JRWP of the year who only got to play there because the original choice was withdrawn and who almost certainly would have been the starting oh as he was going to be made captain?

The same outhalf who started for Ireland and was very impressive tonight, Yep definite bias there:rolleyes:

Clegg

Mr.Opti wrote: »

He is not International Standard & good enough! He adds nothing to the Irish team, runs horrible lines (for Ireland), hogs the ball and lacks creativity!!

Marshal is better & McFadden, Luke Fitz & even McSherry (slight hyperbole) at this stage!!!

Most people don't want Darcy to start and the sooner he is gone the better IMO

Fitzgerald isn't a 12 and has only played there on a few occasions.

Clegg

jm08 wrote: »

That is probably all down to the U20s coach being a former Leinster coach, whose 2 sons have been employed by Leinster rugby and who coach a Leinster club (Lansdowne) where a lot of the U20s play

Then his boss was an Ulsterman (who was assistant coaching the U20s) and has recently gone back to Ulster to head up their Academy:D.

That might explain how so many young Ulster players who were getting selected for the U20s seem to have all given up pro-rugby now.

Surely some people must be scratching their head how JJ Hanrahan can be shortlisted for JRWP of the year who only got to play there because the original choice was withdrawn and who almost certainly would have been the starting oh as he was going to be made captain?

Nonsense

irishbucsfan

shuffol wrote: »

The same outhalf who started for Ireland and was very impressive tonight, Yep definite bias there:rolleyes:

Also, Hanrahan was playing for Ireland beside Jackson at 12, exactly where he had played for Munster A to accommodate Deasy that season.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

That is probably all down to the U20s coach being a former Leinster coach, whose 2 sons have been employed by Leinster rugby and who coach a Leinster club (Lansdowne) where a lot of the U20s play

Then his boss was an Ulsterman (who was assistant coaching the U20s) and has recently gone back to Ulster to head up their Academy:D.

That might explain how so many young Ulster players who were getting selected for the U20s seem to have all given up pro-rugby now.

Surely some people must be scratching their head how JJ Hanrahan can be shortlisted for JRWP of the year who only got to play there because the original choice was withdrawn and who almost certainly would have been the starting oh as he was going to be made captain?

Not sure what the point is of that ramble.

What was JJ doing tonight though?? Oh yeah, probably watching that "original choice" start at 10 for Ireland and have a good game. I'm sure you're outraged that JJ wasnt started by Kidney, he's had 1 professional start and 2 sub appearances which is an eternity for a young Munster player with any potential.

Mr.Opti

Clegg wrote: »

Fitzgerald isn't a 12 and has only played there on a few occasions.

But is better there then Darcy is now so its still a valid point

jacothelad

jm08 wrote: »

Well then, what did you think of Healy jumping Court in the Ireland pecking order?

That would be because he was better rather than from a more favoured geographical location.

jm08 wrote: »

That is probably all down to the U20s coach being a former Leinster coach, whose 2 sons have been employed by Leinster rugby and who coach a Leinster club (Lansdowne) where a lot of the U20s play

Then his boss was an Ulsterman (who was assistant coaching the U20s) and has recently gone back to Ulster to head up their Academy.

That might explain how so many young Ulster players who were getting selected for the U20s seem to have all given up pro-rugby now.

Surely some people must be scratching their head how JJ Hanrahan can be shortlisted for JRWP of the year who only got to play there because the original choice was withdrawn and who almost certainly would have been the starting oh as he was going to be made captain?

shuffol wrote: »

The same outhalf who started for Ireland and was very impressive tonight, Yep definite bias there:rolleyes:

I'm afraid the above piece of jm08's nauseating claptrap has finally made me use the ignore function. Serious stupidity and paranoia.

jm08

shuffol wrote: »

The same outhalf who started for Ireland and was very impressive tonight, Yep definite bias there:rolleyes:

Yep - he was fastracked by a biased Ulster & Leinster U20s management :pac:

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Also, Hanrahan was playing for Ireland beside Jackson at 12, exactly where he had played for Munster A to accommodate Deasy that season.

JJ has played all his rugby at 10 for Rockwell & UL Bohs. Munster were probably told to play him at 12.

Fishooks12

My team for next week:

1 Healy
2 Strauss
3 Ross
4 Ryan
5 McCarthy
6 Henderson
7 Henry
8 Heaslip
9 Marshall
10 Sexton
11 Zebo
12 Darcy
13 Cave
14 Bowe
15 Earls

16 Cronin
17 Kilcoyne
18 Bent
19 DOC
20 POM
21 Murray
22 Jackson
23 Gilroy

jm08

jacothelad wrote: »

That would be because he was better rather than from a more favoured geographical location.
That is probably all down to the U20s coach being a former Leinster coach, whose 2 sons have been employed by Leinster rugby and who coach a Leinster club (Lansdowne) where a lot of the U20s play

Then his boss was an Ulsterman (who was assistant coaching the U20s) and has recently gone back to Ulster to head up their Academy:D.

That might explain how so many young Ulster players who were getting selected for the U20s seem to have all given up pro-rugby now.

Surely some people must be scratching their head how JJ Hanrahan can be shortlisted for JRWP of the year who only got to play there because the original choice was withdrawn and who almost certainly would have been the starting oh as he was going to be made captain?[/B]

I'm afraid the above piece of jm08's nauseating claptrap has finally made me use the ignore function. Serious stupidity and paranoia.

Surely you are describing a lot of the posters here when banging on about Kidney's selections!

Facts are that Munster A are unbeaten by either Leinster A or Ulster Ravens in the last 3 years (11 games).

thomond2006

Fishooks12 wrote: »

My team for next week:

1 Healy
2 Strauss
3 Ross
4 Ryan
5 McCarthy
6 Henderson
7 Henry
8 Heaslip
9 Marshall
10 Sexton
11 Zebo
12 Darcy
13 Cave
14 Gilroy
15 Earls

16 Cronin
17 Kilcoyne
18 Bent
19 DOC
20 POM
21 Murray
22 Jackson
23 McFadden

Bowe dropped from the 23? Wow...

Scioch

Mr.Opti wrote: »

But is better there then Darcy is now so its still a valid point

And there is your credibility gone. Fitz cover at 12 for a couple pro 12 games as far as I recall. And you think he's a better 12 than Gordan Darcy ?

As for McFadden, McSharry and Marshall its simply not true, McFadden just hasnt the exposure at this level to be considered international standard. He's adequate cover when stuck but little else. The other two have potential but have a ways to go before being viable international options. Yes Gordan's career is in its later stages and he's not world class any more. But he is still international standard which the others are not.

I'd expect Marshall will be brought in and he'll become the long term 12 of Ireland. But until then Darcy is the best we have and he's not out of his depth yet at this level.