Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Fishooks12

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bowe dropped from the 23? Wow...

Bollocks, knew I forgot someone! I'll edit

Mr.Opti

Scioch wrote: »

And there is your credibility gone. Fitz cover at 12 for a couple pro 12 games as far as I recall. And you think he's a better 12 than Gordan Darcy ?

As for McFadden, McSharry and Marshall its simply not true, McFadden just hasnt the exposure at this level to be considered international standard. He's adequate cover when stuck but little else. The other two have potential but have a ways to go before being viable international options. Yes Gordan's career is in its later stages and he's not world class any more. But he is still international standard which the others are not.

I'd expect Marshall will be brought in and he'll become the long term 12 of Ireland. But until then Darcy is the best we have and he's not out of his depth yet at this level.

Yes he covered at 12 and a lot of people reckon that would be his best position with his hard tackling and speed. Yes he is better then the current Darcy!!

Never said that McF was considered international standard just would be better then Darcy who hasn't been upto it for Ireland!!!!

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

JJ has played all his rugby at 10 for Rockwell & UL Bohs. Munster were probably told to play him at 12.

You're right he's played for Rockwell & UL Bohs, top level rugby that is

Brewster

Great to see so many talented players come through with Ulster leading the charge. Brian McLaughlin can take an awful lot of credit for these players and long may it continue especially with him back in the Ulster Academy. Young Luke Marshall is going to be a superstar. Different class and has been destined for stardom for three or four years now. Cave was outstanding tonight, easily the best 13 in the country after BOD. Why can't Deccie see this? I think a backline including Marshall, Cave, Gilroy, Bowe and Earls/Zebo could be something special in the future.

Scioch

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Yes he covered at 12 and a lot of people reckon that would be his best position with his hard tackling and speed. Yes he is better then the current Darcy!!

Never said that McF was considered international standard just would be better then Darcy who hasn't been upto it for Ireland!!!!

He IS better than Darcy ? Not he might be, or probably would be better but he IS better ?

Sorry but thats just a ridiculous statement considering that he's not a 12, has only couple games experience there and that was at league level.

I dont know why you think so little of Darcy who's been solid enough for Ireland. His no longer world class but there is no way in hell he has completely forgotten how to play rugby, which is what it would take for him to be considered the inferior of a winger with two pro 12 games (while Darcy was performing well in a World Cup) at 12 under his belt.

There is a reason he is first choice at both Ireland and Leinster. And thats because he is still playing to a high level and far and away the best option we have.

Mr.Opti

Scioch wrote: »

He IS better than Darcy ? Not he might be, or probably would be better but he IS better ?

Sorry but thats just a ridiculous statement considering that he's not a 12, has only couple games experience there and that was at league level.

I dont know why you think so little of Darcy who's been solid enough for Ireland. His no longer world class but there is no way in hell he has completely forgotten how to play rugby, which is what it would take for him to be considered the inferior of a winger with two pro 12 games (while Darcy was performing well in a World Cup) at 12 under his belt.

Yes he IS better!!

He didn't perform well in the WC. He performed/played thats about it!!

Anyways i done with this

irishbucsfan

Fitzgerald played 12 against the All Blacks

(Not saying for a second I agree with the idea he's better than anyone mentioned)

Scioch

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Yes he IS better!!

He didn't perform well in the WC. He performed/played thats about it!!

Anyways i done with this

*stamps feet*

No he isnt !!!!

Scioch

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Fitzgerald played 12 against the All Blacks

(Not saying for a second I agree with the idea he's better than anyone mentioned)

During the summer tour ?

bleg

For what it's worth here's my team for next week, reckon I'll get a bit of stick for it but here goes:

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. DOC
5. Ryan/McCarthy
6. Ryan/McCarthy
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan/Murray
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Marshall
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. Zebo (Bowe and Zebo to interchange like last week)

16. Cronin
17. Kilcoyne
18. Bent
19. Touhy
20. POM
21. Murray/Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Cave

shuffol

Scioch wrote: »

During the summer tour ?

2008 AI's, did well in attack from what I remember.

.ak

Scioch, Mr.Opti take it to PM if you want.

Everyone - the next post to suggest any provincial bias (or conspiracy theories) will take a 2 week break from the forum. This is getting tiresome, I'm sure you all have your own theories and whatnot, but it leads to this forum becoming a poisonous place for those not interested in such nonsense.

snow mad

Scioch wrote: »

There is a reason he is first choice at both Ireland and Leinster. And thats because he is still playing to a high level and far and away the best option we have.

I dont agree that everyone and their granny should be ahead of darcy for the ire team.

But leaving tonight aside I think both marshal and wallace have looked better than him this season. Wallace is at his peak so no point in bringing him in even though he has had a raw deal, but marshal looks the part darcy was given the chance at one time so why not give the same chance to marshal. I no it was figi but even so he looked to give us a spark tonight that we have not seen in a while

Scioch

snow mad wrote: »

I dont agree that everyone and there granny should be ahead of darcy for the ire team.

But leaving tonight aside I think both marshal and wallace have looked better than him this season. Wallace is at his peak so no point in bringing him in even though he has had a raw deal, but marshal looks the part darcy was given the chance at one time so why not give the same chance to marshal. I no it was figi but even so he looked to give us a spark tonight that we have not seen in a while

I'd have no problem bringing in Marshall, none at all. I'm just saying that if I were picking the best team available to beat Argentina and Darcy was fit, I'd be starting Darcy. Simply because I think he's the best available option and imo still international standard despite his recent drop in form.

If I was picking the next 6 nations squad and building for the WC. Darcy would be retiring form international rugby.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Scioch wrote: »

I'd have no problem bringing in Marshall, none at all. I'm just saying that if I were picking the best team available to beat Argentina and Darcy was fit, I'd be starting Darcy. Simply because I think he's the best available option and imo still international standard despite his recent drop in form.

If I was picking the next 6 nations squad and building for the WC. Darcy would be retiring form international rugby.

I wouldn't really say he has had a recent drop in form. He has been a passenger at international level for a number of seasons now.

snow mad

Scioch wrote: »

I'd have no problem bringing in Marshall, none at all. I'm just saying that if I were picking the best team available to beat Argentina and Darcy was fit, I'd be starting Darcy. Simply because I think he's the best available option and imo still international standard despite his recent drop in form.

If I was picking the next 6 nations squad and building for the WC. Darcy would be retiring form international rugby.

I just think marshal is more dangerous in attack and that is something we are missing so i would go for him next week will also have another option kicking for the line

Tox56

What more would you want from L Marshall, he is strong enough to run over people, fast enough to take them on the outside, has a good boot, good pass and good offload. Just when you think 12 is going to be a huge problem position for Ireland as we lose one of our greatest 12's, this guy comes along (honourable mention to Dave McSharry).

It remains to be seen just how good he is at each of these things at top international level, but the potential is clearly there.

thomond2006

Tox56 wrote: »

What more would you want from L Marshall, he is strong enough to run over people, fast enough to take them on the outside, has a good boot, good pass and good offload. Just when you think 12 is going to be a huge problem position for Ireland as we lose one of our greatest 12's, this guy comes along (honourable mention to Dave McSharry).

It remains to be seen just how good he is at each of these things at top international level, but the potential is clearly there.

IMO he has to start next week. D'Arcy hasn't offered much for quite some time. We need Marshall's creativity to play an expansive game, D'Arcy is good for taking contact but we cannot attempt to take on the Argies in a physical battle.

Foxtrol

thomond2006 wrote: »

IMO he has to start next week. D'Arcy hasn't offered much for quite some time. We need Marshall's creativity to play an expansive game, D'Arcy is good for taking contact but we cannot attempt to take on the Argies in a physical battle.

Im all for trying him but would be slightly worried about Earls outside him. If we were bringing him in Id much rather it be with Cave outside him.

Fishooks12

thomond2006 wrote: »

IMO he has to start next week. D'Arcy hasn't offered much for quite some time. We need Marshall's creativity to play an expansive game, D'Arcy is good for taking contact but we cannot attempt to take on the Argies in a physical battle.

tbh I wouldn't be that confident in starting Marshall next week. He was very good with ball in hand and his tackling was fine. But I thought he got himself into some weird defensive positions that would have been punished by a better team.

If Earls is to start at 13 again though i'd like to see him start given how bad the Earls Darcy combo is

Tox56

thomond2006 wrote: »

IMO he has to start next week. D'Arcy hasn't offered much for quite some time. We need Marshall's creativity to play an expansive game, D'Arcy is good for taking contact but we cannot attempt to take on the Argies in a physical battle.

But at the same time he gives you a second kicking option if you want to keep it tight and/or play for territory

Scioch

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I wouldn't really say he has had a recent drop in form. He has been a passenger at international level for a number of seasons now.

Easy to see it that way though when there is literally nobody to replace him and he is clearly not playing to the level he once was. McFadden was called for at one stage but failed to impress in the Irish setup. Wallace was called for but similarly didnt perform. Marshall is only now being brought up.

So he's been there and done what was asked of him, his form dropped prior to the WC and then picked up at the WC if I remember rightly (ignoring the fact he gifted Mike Philips a try). Since then he's been ok. He's clearly on a downward slope but he hasnt left Ireland bereft of an inside centre either. He's performed to a reasonable level while we wait for anyone else capable of playing to that level. Which to date we havent found.

Scioch

Tox56 wrote: »

What more would you want from L Marshall, he is strong enough to run over people, fast enough to take them on the outside, has a good boot, good pass and good offload. Just when you think 12 is going to be a huge problem position for Ireland as we lose one of our greatest 12's, this guy comes along (honourable mention to Dave McSharry).

It remains to be seen just how good he is at each of these things at top international level, but the potential is clearly there.

I'd be more comfortable bring these players in slowly. Bench him and give him a run at some decent opposition. He hasnt played at international level yet, I wouldnt start him until I could see what he can do there and knew he was comfortable enough to perform at that level too. Thats just my personal view.

dregin

Any word on Sexton's injury in the warmup?

davegrohl48

Depending on team selection and performance for the Argentina game things could be looking pretty positive for next years six nations.
Front row - Strauss/Bent will add strong coverage.
Second row - Ryan/POC/DOC/Mike Mc./Tuohy (Probably POC/Ryan and Doc. Personally I'd go with POC/Mike Mc./Touhy. POC for lineouts, Mike Mc and Tuohy for carrying ability.
Back Row - Chris Henry in good form for 7. Heaslip control at scrum at 8. Depending on who is fit multiple options for 6 (would like to see Ferris).
Scrum Half - It's not been the probem area made out. Our problems have been scrum and carrying ability in the forwards and a lack of creativity in the backs.
Out Half - Jackson will surely be making bench spot his own. Irish rugby is too conservative to enterain any possibility he'd become the starter for some time yet.
Backs 11 - 14 - Let's see how form goes but there is serious pressure on places now (one would hope there would be).
Full Back - Return of Rob Kearney offers a solidness under the high ball and a guaranteed gainline break when in posession. Our most consistent back over last few seasons.

dtpc191991

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Depending on team selection and performance for the Argentina game things could be looking pretty positive for next years six nations.
Front row - Strauss/Bent will add strong coverage.
Second row - Ryan/POC/DOC/Mike Mc./Tuohy (Probably POC/Ryan and Doc. Personally I'd go with POC/Mike Mc./Touhy. POC for lineouts, Mike Mc and Tuohy for carrying ability.
Back Row - Chris Henry in good form for 7. Heaslip control at scrum at 8. Depending on who is fit multiple options for 6 (would like to see Ferris).
Scrum Half - It's not been the probem area made out. Our problems have been scrum and carrying ability in the forwards and a lack of creativity in the backs.
Out Half - Jackson will surely be making bench spot his own. Irish rugby is too conservative to enterain any possibility he'd become the starter for some time yet.
Backs 11 - 14 - Let's see how form goes but there is serious pressure on places now (one would hope there would be).
Full Back - Return of Rob Kearney offers a solidness under the high ball and a guaranteed gainline break when in posession. Our most consistent back over last few seasons.

You forgot SOB there in the backrow. Arguably the best 7 in the country. Henry would still be my first option on the bench though.

dtpc191991

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Depending on team selection and performance for the Argentina game things could be looking pretty positive for next years six nations.
Front row - Strauss/Bent will add strong coverage.
Second row - Ryan/POC/DOC/Mike Mc./Tuohy (Probably POC/Ryan and Doc. Personally I'd go with POC/Mike Mc./Touhy. POC for lineouts, Mike Mc and Tuohy for carrying ability.
Back Row - Chris Henry in good form for 7. Heaslip control at scrum at 8. Depending on who is fit multiple options for 6 (would like to see Ferris).
Scrum Half - It's not been the probem area made out. Our problems have been scrum and carrying ability in the forwards and a lack of creativity in the backs.
Out Half - Jackson will surely be making bench spot his own. Irish rugby is too conservative to enterain any possibility he'd become the starter for some time yet.
Backs 11 - 14 - Let's see how form goes but there is serious pressure on places now (one would hope there would be).
Full Back - Return of Rob Kearney offers a solidness under the high ball and a guaranteed gainline break when in posession. Our most consistent back over last few seasons.

You forgot SOB there in the backrow. Arguably the best 7 in the country. Henry would still be my first option on the bench though.

bilston

dtpc191991 wrote: »

You forgot SOB there in the backrow. Arguably the best 7 in the country. Henry would still be my first option on the bench though.

Didn't Gilroy and McFadden swap wings in the second half? I'd say the 11 jersey is up for grabs and it was almost a trial to see who would get it. Given the magnitude of the game (potentially although it's hard to see Samoa beating France) I reckon Ferg will get it, but I tell you what a back three of Gilroy, Zebo and Bowe...that could worth the admission fee on its own...even against the Pumas...

As far as the other newbies go I'm happy with Jackson generally, place kicking was average at best but the rest of his game was good, he knows how to get the likes of Marshall, Cave and Gilroy into the game but also McFadden and Zebo linked uo well with him.

Henderson did well with a couple of big runs and one good turnover on the line. Two or three lineout takes as well.

Luke Marshall was unplayable in the first half, maybe he tried to force it a bit in the second half but he was pivotal in that backline and got a well deserved try.

Podge_irl

Scioch wrote: »

Easy to see it that way though when there is literally nobody to replace him and he is clearly not playing to the level he once was. McFadden was called for at one stage but failed to impress in the Irish setup. Wallace was called for but similarly didnt perform. Marshall is only now being brought up.

I don't think McFadden has played a single minute at 12 for Ireland.

Wallace performed quite well several times. I wouldn't bring him back now, but he gets way too hard a time from a lot of people. It didn't help that Kidney seemed insistent on him being used as a crash ball centre.

bleg wrote: »

For what it's worth here's my team for next week, reckon I'll get a bit of stick for it but here goes:

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. DOC
5. Ryan/McCarthy
6. Ryan/McCarthy
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan/Murray
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Marshall
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. Zebo (Bowe and Zebo to interchange like last week)

16. Cronin
17. Kilcoyne
18. Bent
19. Touhy
20. POM
21. Murray/Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Cave

Henderson dropping out of the 23 completely? I really don't want to see Ryan or McCarthy at 6 tbh, particularly Ryan. I don't think he's impressed much for Munster there this season. He should stick to the second row.

jacothelad

Some of the reasons for the success of the provinces over the years. Not all, just some. We have really good home grown players too.

B.J. Botha,
Wian Du Preez
Henke Van Der Merwe
C.J. Van Der Linde
Ollie La Roux
Freddie Puciarrello
Nathan White
Rocky Elsom
Brad Thorn
Felipe Contepomi
Trevor Halstead
Rua Tipoki
Liefimi Mafi.
Casey Laulala
John Afoa
JeanDevilliers
Johan Muller
Ruan Pienaar
Pedrie Wannenberg
The Plank

These guys have helped make the provinces more successful than the other Celtic sides. Only the Os and briefly the Blues could boast overseas signings of such quality.

Some of the reasons for the apparent under performance of the Irish national side. Not all but a contributory factor.
B.J. Botha,
Wian Du Preez
Henke Van Der Merwe
C.J. Van Der Linde
Ollie La Roux
Freddie Puciarrello
Nathan White
Rocky Elsom
Brad Thorn
Felipe Contepomi
Trevor Halstead
Rua Tipoki
Liefimi Mafi.
Casey Laulala
John Afoa
JeanDevilliers
Johan Muller
Ruan Pienaar
Pedrie Wannenberg
The Plank