Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

totallegend

AngeGal wrote: »

That's insane, Scotland have beaten us what, once in the last ten years??

2010, 2011...

danthefan

totallegend wrote: »

2010, 2011...

Didn't we lose a game against them in 2007 prior to the RWC?

Anyway they beat us in the 2001 6N, then we beat them every year up to 2010, which we also lost.

AngeGal

totallegend wrote: »

2010, 2011...

2010 yes but 2011 just looked up, we won 21-18 in Murrayfield.

totallegend

AngeGal wrote: »

2010 yes but 2011 just looked up, we won 21-18 in Murrayfield.

August 2011 pre-World Cup warm-up.

JRant

jm08 wrote: »

Ross looks a fit unfit. Probably needs the gametime. Has said in the past he needs to be playing a lot.

There has been a good return on investment for some of those NIQ players and their contribution to the success of Irish rugby. For instance, Rocky Elsom was here for a season and wasn't around long enough to block the progress of any of the encumbents.

However, the return on investment on foreign props has not been good. Out of the following 8 props:
B.J. Botha,
Wian Du Preez
Henke Van Der Merwe
C.J. Van Der Linde
Ollie La Roux
Stan Wright
Freddie Puciarrello
Nathan White

only one homegrown prop of sufficent international quality (Cian Healy) has been produced. Not a good return in comparison to say the return on Rocky Elsom, Ruan Pienaar or Doug Howlett.

It's always hard to tell with Ross, I mean he's touching 127kgs!!!
I thought he did well last week, especially in the loose, until he was out on his feet by about the 60th min.

It's hard to tell wrt props. They take longer to come through and usually don't peak till mid-to-late 20's. I can't imagine learning from the likes of Henke will do McGrath any harm.
The benefits of having world class scrummagers coming in and passing on their nous can not be overstated.

AngeGal

totallegend wrote: »

August 2011 pre-World Cup warm-up.

Apologies, I was thinking of 6 nations games.

jamiedav2011

totallegend wrote: »

Exhibit A:


Exhibit B:
Paul Marshall is behind an NIQ but due to Pienaar's injury last season and international duty this season, has got decent HC experience and has lit up the matches he's been involved in. His reward from Kidney? ONE MINUTE against the Barbarians, a trek to NZ with ZERO game minutes and twenty minutes in a non-cap game that was long over as a contest by the time he came on.

Exhibit C:
There must be five IQ looseheads who could have come on to replace Kilcoyne yesterday but Kidney chose to throw on Cian Healy who's been carrying a knock for months.

I know I'm like a broken record about Kidney but the biggest threat to the national team is not from South Africa or New Zealand, it's from Cork.

Spot on.
The propping decisions (to start Ross and bring Healy on) were utterly nonsensical yesterday, yet don't seem to have been challenged.

jacothelad

If Ireland lose to Arg by 12-15 and all results go as likely.


1.New Zealand93.217935
2.Australia87.31352475
3.South Africa86.0524
4.France85.1075525
5.England81.654965
6.Argentina81.10098
7.Samoa78.6663975
8.Wales78.13291025
9.Scotland77.99216
10.Ireland77.81922



If Ireland win by 1-15

1.New Zealand93.217935
2.Australia87.31352475
3.South Africa86.0524
4.France85.1075525
5.England81.654965
6.Ireland79.81922
7.Argentina79.10098
8.Samoa78.6663975
9.Wales78.13291025
10.Scotland77.99216

JRant

Watching the Puma's this last while it's clear that if we go to ground in contact with the ball every time we'll be mullered. Even in their defeat last night they were very competitive at the breakdown and that was a mean French pack they were up against.
With that in mind I think we should pick as attacking team as possible.

Healy
Straus
Ross
Ryan
McCarthy
Henderson
Henry
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Gilroy/Zebo
L Marshall
Cave
Bowe
Zebo/Gilroy

Subs
Court
Cronin
Bent
DOC
POM
Earls
P Marshall
P Jackson

bleg

Can't see Henderson being involved next week.

irishbucsfan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'd start Marshall at 9 next week, but people are just kidding themselves if they think 9 is the big issue it is made out to be here.

We could have Genia playing 9 and he wouldn't make much of a difference when we have a backline that don't have a bogs notion what they're supposed to be doing

I think if we had Pienaar at 9 against South Africa we I think we would have won the game. Both our half backs completely ran out of ideas, whereas Pienaar always seems to know the right thing to do.

But that's not an option to us. Eoin Reddan is the only other option, and he is often equally clueless. He excels at the quick attacking gameplan that we can't implement at international level, due to coaches, players, or whatever else. So the idea that we lost against South Africa because Murray started. Or the idea that we would have won if Reddan started, is madness. Murray was the right selection.

Is he the right selection for this weekend? I think so, I can't see our forwards giving us the sort of platform that Reddan needs.

irishbucsfan

I think there'll be loads of competition for 9 during the 6 Nations if O'Leary maintains his current London Irish form

phog

danthefan wrote: »

Interesting point - Ireland have never beaten a top 8 side with Murray starting.

Next weekend we play a top 8 side with a huge amount at stake...

Yeah, terrible out of Murray last week to concede 10 points while his captain was warming the sinbin.

accidentprone1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think there'll be loads of competition for 9 during the 6 Nations if O'Leary maintains his current London Irish form

I don't see why that's a bad thing?

danthefan

phog wrote: »

Yeah, terrible out of Murray last week to concede 10 points while his captain was warming the sinbin.

You'll have to point out where I ever said Heaslip had a good game against SA.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

You'll have to point out where I ever said Heaslip had a good game against SA.

Where did I say you did?

danthefan

phog wrote: »

Where did I say you did?

So you have absolutely no point other than some daft provincial point scoring, great.

I mention Murray because there are other options and he's not very good. Notwithstanding his poor performance against SA, Heaslip is the best 8 we have by a mile.

If you want to talk about Heaslip, go ahead and talk about Heaslip. It has nothing to do with Murray.

jamiedav2011

danthefan wrote: »

So you have absolutely no point other than some daft provincial point scoring, great.

I mention Murray because there are other options and he's not very good. Notwithstanding his poor performance against SA, Heaslip is the best 8 we have by a mile.

I really, really really can't abide by some of the blindness on here when it comes to players.

Murray would not be starting SH for any other top class international team, not within an asses roar of it. Yet we've a coach who throws him into a WC quarter final after 'impressing' for Munster in a few games.

The lack of starting Reddan and Sexton together just absolutely beggars belief, and we've a quick explosive scrum half tearing up trees in Ulster who cannot get a look in.

It's an easy example, and you'd expect him to have made a difference, but just look at the speed Marshall brought to the game last night.

If we had a coaching team with a brain we'd be starting Reddan and have Marshall (along with Madigan or Jackson) on the bench as an excellent impact sub, but there's just no joined up thinking when it comes to using the bench at all, bar pre determined moves and this stupid ****e of bringing on ROG and pushing Sexton to 12.

The amount of instances that you could bring up with Kidney of his team strategy utterly failing is crazy.

Good god i can't wait to get rid of this coach.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

So you have absolutely no point other than some daft provincial point scoring, great.

I mention Murray because there are other options and he's not very good. Notwithstanding his poor performance against SA, Heaslip is the best 8 we have by a mile.

If you want to talk about Heaslip, go ahead and talk about Heaslip. It has nothing to do with Murray.

How is it provincialism to state a fact that a guy in the bin cost us 10 points?

You're coming with stats trying to show Murray is responsible for the losses while ignoring facts.

Banbridgeman2

Just watched game and the ulster contingent were excellent, I've been calling for some of these lads to start for awhile now. I think after today you'd have to go with something like this 1.Healy 2.Strauss 3.Ross 4.Ryan 5.McCathy 6.Henderson 7.Henry 8.Heaslip 9.Marshall 10.Sexton 11.Gilroy 12.Marshall 13.Cave 14.Bowe 15.Zebo

Banbridgeman2

phog wrote: »

How is it provincialism to state a fact that a guy in the bin cost us 10 points?

You're coming with stats trying to show Murray is responsible for the losses while ignoring facts.

Well Heaslip was sent off for a team penalty i'd hardly blame him. If your looking for a scapegoat then look no further than McCarthy who left the post undefeated for south Africa's try

goreyguy

that was ryan

irishbucsfan

It was Ryan who left the post underfunded.

Heaslip's penalty would've been a sin binning regardless of previous penalties. It was unbelievably dull to just waltz into the side of a ruck on our try line. Really disappointing.

Blaming either player for the loss would be foolish though.

phog

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Well Heaslip was sent off for a team penalty i'd hardly blame him. If your looking for a scapegoat then look no further than McCarthy who left the post undefeated for south Africa's try

I named Heaslip because it was him that was carded, I could hardly name Quinny, could I?

jm08

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Spot on.
The propping decisions (to start Ross and bring Healy on) were utterly nonsensical yesterday, yet don't seem to have been challenged.

Ulster needed Court & Fitzpatrick in Italy to bench against Zebre. They will be needed next week against Treviso as well as Ulster have very inexperienced/ lack propping depth.

Banbridgeman2

phog wrote: »

I named Heaslip because it was him that was carded, I could hardly name Quinny, could I?

Well you could have just as easily blamed every other player who had given away a penalty up to that point. In fact I think that was the first penalty Heaslip had given away! Some forwards had given away 2-3 at that point

Quint2010

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Well Heaslip was sent off for a team penalty i'd hardly blame him. If your looking for a scapegoat then look no further than McCarthy who left the post undefeated for south Africa's try

That was Ryan no? Anyway-next week there is not a snow ball in hells chance of Reddan or Henderson starting. It'll be Murray and POM all the way-with probably DOC back in harness and ROG back on the bench

Deano7788

jm08 wrote: »

Ulster needed Court & Fitzpatrick in Italy to bench against Zebre. They will be needed next week against Treviso as well as Ulster have very inexperienced/ lack propping depth.

I really don't see why that should come into the Ireland selection. For the IRFU, Ireland comes first so if they're wanted by Ireland, that's that.

If we're going to go down that route, 1 of Strauss or Cronin should be left out because the Leinster backup is inexperienced and POM should be left out because Munster are a bit short in the back row due to injuries

its_phil

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Well Heaslip was sent off for a team penalty i'd hardly blame him. If your looking for a scapegoat then look no further than McCarthy who left the post undefeated for south Africa's try

Is that taken from the Gospel According to Neil Francis.

It was Ryan.

Banbridgeman2

its_phil wrote: »

Is that taken from the Gospel According to Neil Francis.

It was Ryan.

Apologies knew it was one if the second rows but thought it was McCarthy