Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Fishooks12

Bowe was imperious in the first half of the SA game, he's not got the flair of Zebo or Gilroy but he's a far superior player right now in my mind.

dtpc191991

I know i's a bit off the current train of thought but if everyone is fit come the Six Nations what do you think our strongest team is. I think it would look something like this. We should be giving the young guys a chance as well so my team reflects that. I'm also assuming 23 man squads will be cleared for service.

1. Healy
2. Strauss/Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan/McCarthy
5. O'Connell/Touhy
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan/Marshall
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy/Fitzgearald/Earls
12. Marshall/McFadden/McSharry (has yet to be tested but worth a shot, maybe against Italy or Scotland).
13. BOD/Cave
14. Bowe
15. Kearney/Zebo
16. Best/Strauss
17. Court/Dennis Buckley
18. Bent
19. Touhy/DOC
20. Henry
21. Marshall/Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Earls/Zebo/Gilroy

MLC61

I am not sure that I would include Jackson on the bench. I agree that he should be next choice to Sexton and if Sexton was injured I would play Jackson. From the bench though to change the game and do something different I would have Madigan or Keatley.

danthefan

You've named about 25 players in your strongest XV, off the fence with you.

goreyguy

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. DOC
5. McCarthy
6. Henderson
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Marshall
13. Cave
14. Bowe
15. Zebo
16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Bent
19. Ryan
20. O'Mahony
21. Marshall
22. Jackson
23. Earls

mfceiling

MLC61 wrote: »

I am not sure that I would include Jackson on the bench. I agree that he should be next choice to Sexton and if Sexton was injured I would play Jackson. From the bench though to change the game and do something different I would have Madigan or Keatley.

Not sure i understand your logic.

Jackson is in flying form and you would have him next to sexton but you wouldn't have him on the bench??

Do you really think madigan or keatley would change a game?

A tight 6 nations game against england or france with a couple of points in it - would you rather see jackson coming on to replace an injured sexton after 20 minutes or would you think keatley or madigan would be a better choice?

freyners

mfceiling wrote: »

Not sure i understand your logic.

Jackson is in flying form and you would have him next to sexton but you wouldn't have him on the bench??

Do you really think madigan or keatley would change a game?

A tight 6 nations game against england or france with a couple of points in it - would you rather see jackson coming on to replace an injured sexton after 20 minutes or would you think keatley or madigan would be a better choice?

Id like to see NOC :pac:

totallegend

goreyguy wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. DOC
5. McCarthy
6. Henderson
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Marshall
13. Cave
14. Bowe
15. Zebo

If we see a team with none of Earls, Murray or POM in it, I'll close my boards account, because it will mean I know nothing about rugby.

goreyguy

Cave is a better 13 than Earls, so maybe Earls ahead of Gilroy. Wouldn't have a problem with that.
Henderson > POM.
Rather see Ireland play high tempo with Reddan/Marshall.

That's my team for Arg. It certainly won't be Kidneys. Kidneys will be:
1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. McCarthy
6. POM
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Darcy
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. Zebo

davegrohl48

On the issue of Henderson versus POM, the gap in ability that I see is that Henderson has speed and a sidestep. You wouldn't expect it from a guy his size but he has it. I haven't seen the same from O'Mahoney. O'Mahoney cannot break the gainline as effectively as a result and that won't change.

JRant

shuffol wrote: »

If Trimble is dropped he can feel unlucky, as I suspect he'd be the first Irish player under Kidney to lose their place in the test side to a guy behind him at his province. Not counting DOC/Ryan in the last 6N as Ryan never had a spot in the side to begin with. If true it'd make you wonder why D'arcy wasnt jettisoned for McFadden when he was muck in the 6N.

To be honest I'd say Trimble knew he wasn't going to play against the Puma's straight after the final whistle blew against SA.

The problem being that he's not in the "inner circle", as they say. Others in the squad are nailed on starters or squad members despite not doing a whole lot to deserve it. There is no competition for certain jerseys in the team, regardless of the fact that there are viable alternatives that need to be tried out.

DK would play McFadden everywhere bar 12. It seems at the moment that DK's intention is to play as many players out of position as possible in the backline. Maybe he thinks this will confuse the opposition defense but it only seems to confuse our attack.

Fishooks12

davegrohl48 wrote: »

On the issue of Henderson versus POM, the gap in ability that I see is that Henderson has speed and a sidestep. You wouldn't expect it from a guy his size but he has it. I haven't seen the same from O'Mahoney. O'Mahoney cannot break the gainline as effectively as a result and that won't change.

POM is a very underrated ball carrier, speed and a side step are not exactly that important for a 6 either.

I'd have Henderson over POM at the moment but there's not much between them

goreyguy

Agree POM isn't as fluid an athlete.
Henderson is a special athlete considering his Height, Weight, Speed.

bilston

shuffol wrote: »

I always feel with Trimble that irregardless of prior form he's just one mediocre performance away from being out of the side or the media suggesting he's under pressure whereas other players can be consistently sh!te for whole tournaments or series without their position even being called into question.

This, a hundered times this.

It seems to have become accepted that Trimble played himself out of the team against SA. Can someone tell me what exactly he did so badly wrong? Yeah he deflected a free kick into touch which gave SA a lineout deep in our half, and that was a bad mistake, but what else did he do badly wrong? I may have missed something so I'm happy to be corrected but was he as bad as some are suggesting against SA?

I say the above as someone who would pick Gilroy over him for Argentina by the way!

Fishooks12

bilston wrote: »

This, a hundered times this.

It seems to have become accepted that Trimble played himself out of the team against SA. Can someone tell me what exactly he did so badly wrong? Yeah he deflected a free kick into touch which gave SA a lineout deep in our half, and that was a bad mistake, but what else did he do badly wrong? I may have missed something so I'm happy to be corrected but was he as bad as some are suggesting against SA?

I say the above as someone who would pick Gilroy over him for Argentina by the way!

I just don't think Trimble offers that much in attack at International level.

.ak

TBH, I've a soft spot for Trimble, but have always thought he was a stop gap for when Earls/Fitz were unavailable. He's a big bosh footballer, but now adays he gets stuck in traffic and often kills the ball by trying to run out too soon. I'd love to see him straighten up and learn to pass when we're playing in the middle of the park.

bilston

Fishooks12 wrote: »

POM is a very underrated ball carrier, speed and a side step are not exactly that important for a 6 either.

I'd have Henderson over POM at the moment but there's not much between them

I wouldn't be starting Hendo over POM yet. Maybe by the time the 6Ns comes round and if Ferris is still crocked it might happen but starting POM again will be the right call. In saying that I hope Henderson is given more than 8 or 9 minutes against the Pumas.

bilston

.ak wrote: »

TBH, I've a soft spot for Trimble, but have always thought he was a stop gap for when Earls/Fitz were unavailable. He's a big bosh footballer, but now adays he gets stuck in traffic and often kills the ball by trying to run out too soon. I'd love to see him straighten up and learn to pass when we're playing in the middle of the park.

Well it's been reported in the northern media that Trimble will be playing for Ulster on Friday night, Ulster just can't announce his name in the squad yet for obvious reasons so it looks like he will fall 1 cap shy of the big 50. He'll probably make number 50 against the USA or Canada in the summer I suppose but I do wonder whether his time is running out in the Ireland squad

bilston

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I just don't think Trimble offers that much in attack at International level.

Sure that hasn't stopped D'Arcy getting picked over the last 4 years:p







Only messing lads;)

davegrohl48

Speed and a sidestep will in a few short years be important at every position bar front row. We might as well be a little bit ahead of the curve.
POM may be an underrated ball carrier, but he's not at the level needed to be competing with the top 8 sides.

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

Sure that hasn't stopped D'Arcy getting picked over the last 4 years:p







Only messing lads;)

To be fair the second a viable alternative to Darce became available there were calls for him to be included, even when this alternative is a 21 year old who has never started a H Cup game. Trimble has a quite a bit more competition.

Fishooks12

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Speed and a sidestep will in a few short years be important at every position bar front row. We might as well be a little bit ahead of the curve.
POM may be an underrated ball carrier, but he's not at the level needed to be competing with the top 8 sides.

What makes you say this???

ScissorPaperRock

bilston wrote: »

This, a hundered times this.

It seems to have become accepted that Trimble played himself out of the team against SA. Can someone tell me what exactly he did so badly wrong? Yeah he deflected a free kick into touch which gave SA a lineout deep in our half, and that was a bad mistake, but what else did he do badly wrong? I may have missed something so I'm happy to be corrected but was he as bad as some are suggesting against SA?

I say the above as someone who would pick Gilroy over him for Argentina by the way!

I don't think he did anything wrong, and he's generally a pretty solid player for Ulster and Ireland. But there's a lot of talent, and I guess that people are hoping that the addition of Gilroy will add some extra attacking potential.

The problem really is that we're spoilt for choice with wingers, with Zebo, Earls, Bowe, Gilroy, and Trimble. It seems we're trying pretty hard to get as many of them on the field as possible already!

dtpc191991

danthefan wrote: »

You've named about 25 players in your strongest XV, off the fence with you.

It's a tough job but alright XD

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Touhy
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Marshall
13. BOD (c)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Best
17. Dennis Buckley
18. Bent
19. Ryan
20. Henry
21. Marshall
22. Jackson
23. Earls

I would expect rotation of the squad throughout the tournament so that younger guys like Cave, Henderson, Madigan, Zebo, Fitz, Jackson, Buckley, Bent etc would get starts.

davegrohl48

Fishooks12 wrote: »

What makes you say this???

Quite simple there is a general trend that the players are getting more athletic over the years. It's unlikely to change. In positions like lock for example there is plenty of scope for the players to get quicker.

dtpc191991

totallegend wrote: »

If we see a team with none of Earls, Murray or POM in it, I'll close my boards account, because it will mean I know nothing about rugby.

No it wouldn't, rather it would mean Kidney's finally learning something about the modern game, save Earls who I think is a decent international. POM could be but he's not physically big enough yet.

that's a nice team. I feel McCarthy has done enough to bump Tuohy out of the starting XV this season though.

Earls, Gilroy and Bowe would all be pretty interchangeable between bench and starting XV on current form. Zebo in the mix there too!

Best has to start though, Strauss a fantastic impact player to have.

Could you imagine DK picking that team!?

sjwpjw

My beef with the negative comments on Trimble in the SA game are that he never got a proper chance with ball in hand. The only passes (and there were very few) I saw him get were man and ball jobs apart from the one in the dead ball area where he had no real option when the camera panned out. Had he run that and got caught (there were plenty of SA defenders) he would have been slaughtered in the media etc but when he decides to take the basic option and clear he is criticized for not having a go. He can't win... TBH would it not be worthwhile trying him in centre instead of Darc - he is big and physical and faster and has played there plenty before (maybe not for Ireland though)? Not saying he is better than Marshall but he would certainly get my nod ahead of Darc who I think did very well when I was a lot younger... If DK's rationale for not using LM at 12 is lack of experience he could not say that of Trimble.

Yes, he made a mistake (IMHO) with the lineout although the Beeb commentator didn't think so. But then everyone is raving about Earls and Zebo. Earls chucked the ball straight into touch .... And Zebo basically tucked it under one arm more or less every time he got it a la mini rugby style. Had I been Bowe or Trimble outside of him I would not have been happy especially as it happened a number of times. Then someone on this forum said something like "if only the gaps had opened up for him [Zebo]"... How dumb is that? You could say that about anyone, or how about, "if only the other team couldn't tackle" etc? Yes, Zebo looked zippy but ultimately he didn't zip anywhere but apparently is now a nailed down starter.

Bowe can play pretty well at FB and is great under the high ball.

irishbucsfan

When was the last time Trimble actually played in the center?

Is Trimble becoming the new Paddy Wallace?

Really good rugby player that just gets slated for every single step he makes in the wrong direction, whilst completely ignoring all of the good parts of his game? (of which there is many?).

Don't think he's done anything particularly wrong, but Gilroy did score a hat-trick, making it 5 tries in two appearances for the 'A's. Zebo is running high on confidence and arrogance, and we haven't had any of either in our attacking play for a long time at National level. I don't think Trimble's done enough to keep his place, purely because the guys around him have done so much.