Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

OldRio

Higher wrote: »

Jesus christ, ROG on the bench AGAIN.

Well I hope JC gets on.

totallegend

.ak wrote: »

So, one thing that is very clear, Thornley is obviously getting the inside scoop and thus appearing to be an authority on rugby in return for writing up supportive dribble for the IRFU. Shameful.

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'll at least take solace in the fact that when the Pumas smash us to bits, Kidney won't have fall-guys in Marshall or Cave.

I am honestly starting to think that Mike Ross is being set up as the fall guy for this weekend.

The last seven days, almost every article Thornley has written has included a pop at Ross and now that idiot Conor George is getting in on the act. I genuinely think Kidney is feeding this to journos to sow the seeds of doubt over Ross; the Pumas are going to be very strong in the scrum so he could be an easy scapegoat if we lose.

JF100

Suggested Bench Strategy:
"Empty it at 60 mins.. whatever the scenario..."
What are the Pros & Cons? Discuss Ladies...

Scioch

Dont know why I waste my time watching these announcements, nothing we dont already know. Kindey/IRFU are incapable of change much to the detriment of Irish rugby.

Baker87

totallegend wrote: »

I am honestly starting to think that Mike Ross is being set up as the fall guy for this weekend.

The last seven days, almost every article Thornley has written has included a pop at Ross and now that idiot Conor George is getting in on the act. I genuinely think Kidney is feeding this to journos to sow the seeds of doubt over Ross; the Pumas are going to be very strong in the scrum so he could be an easy scapegoat if we lose.

I think this is borderline paranoia to be honest, Kidney might pick stagnant team and have us playing terrible rugby, but I can't see any reasons why he would set up an excellent servant to Irish rugby like Ross as a fall guy.

Fishooks12

Baker87 wrote: »

I think this is borderline paranoia to be honest, Kidney might pick stagnant team and have us playing terrible rugby, but I can't see any reasons why he would set up an excellent servant to Irish rugby like Ross as a fall guy.

I agree. And if he did plan on doing that I doubt the media would be in on it, despite the cosy relationship they have with Kidney

justsomebloke

ok match day thread is up can people use that now to comment on any team selections

Clegg

I have a bad feeling that a half decent six nations will get Kidney a contract extension.

Fireball07

JRant wrote: »

I've not read anyone here blaming Earls for the defeat to be honest.
I'd have Cave ahead of him at 13, I'd also say that he just doesn't seem as sharp as he can be, probably due to just coming back from injury. No slight on Earls at all but other players need the chance to stake a claim for a jersey.

Not blaming Earls outright, but people leaving him out of their teams...and then complaining that Trimble is being blamed for the same thing.

What did we learn by playing DOC in an A game? Surely someone like Toner could have been given a run.
Why would Touhy bother his hole in an A game? He now knows he's injury cover and nothing else, great way to incentivise a player!

I would have played Toner for sure...but I suppose the argument would be DOC provided leadership in a fairly inexperienced pack.

If that's Tuohy's attitude, we don't want him playing for Ireland tbh (I'm 99% sure it's not his attitude...I mean Marshall, Gilroy, Cave, Henderson, Jackson, Murray, DOC, McFadden all did well and were obviously trying)

Anyway, DOC has been in excellent form all season and if we were to go on form alone, would deserve a starting spot. (I do think other things should be taken into account...age, suitability for the game and proven skill level...BOD will always play even if he's not the most in-form, same with POC, Sexton)

It's not the backline thats missing a spark. It's due to the fact we persist on playing a defensive SH, who wouldn't know what to do with quick, clean ball even if you were to draw him a map,

Simply not true.

When Murray does provide quick ball, the problems are the same.

A centre partnership that creates ZERO space for those around them and a coach who thinks POC should be carrying 13/14 times per game for very little yardage gained.

Replacing Trimble for Gilroy is futile as long as these problems remain.

The centres thing is a problem but it's not all their fault, it's the gameplan at fault, we can't put together an attacking move worth shít. That's the problem. We rely on individual brilliance to create anything, which is very hard to do in international rugby. And I just think that Gilroy is more likely to produce that something than Trimble.

totallegend

Baker87 wrote: »

I think this is borderline paranoia to be honest, Kidney might pick stagnant team and have us playing terrible rugby, but I can't see any reasons why he would set up an excellent servant to Irish rugby like Ross as a fall guy.

Perhaps I am paranoid BUT Ireland have lost many, many games in the last couple of years and I am struggling to remember one instance where Kidney has accepted even a portion of the blame.

Whether it's the provinces or foreigners or referees, someone will have to take the flak if things go wrong because DK is not going to shoulder the blame himself.

The things that have been written about Ross have been ridiculous and they have to be coming from somewhere.

Fishooks12

Fireball07 wrote: »

Simply not true.

When Murray does provide quick ball, the problems are the same.

+1

Murray's delivery against SA was plenty fast, we just hadn't a clue what to do with it when we got the ball

Fireball07

totallegend wrote: »

I am honestly starting to think that Mike Ross is being set up as the fall guy for this weekend.

The last seven days, almost every article Thornley has written has included a pop at Ross and now that idiot Conor George is getting in on the act. I genuinely think Kidney is feeding this to journos to sow the seeds of doubt over Ross; the Pumas are going to be very strong in the scrum so he could be an easy scapegoat if we lose.

I dunno... it doesn't make sense to me.

I reckon our pack will show up pretty well, it's more likely our backs who will fail to shine. There is no sense in making Ross a fall guy as he is by far and away the best TH in the country.

I think it's a bit over the top to blame Kidney for that, I don't think it's something he'd do tbh.

jm08

totallegend wrote: »

Perhaps I am paranoid BUT Ireland have lost many, many games in the last couple of years and I am struggling to remember one instance where Kidney has accepted even a portion of the blame.

Whether it's the provinces or foreigners or referees, someone will have to take the flak if things go wrong because DK is not going to shoulder the blame himself.

The things that have been written about Ross have been ridiculous and they have to be coming from somewhere.

Can you give me an instance of what a coach should say or do to accept the blame. Any examples of a coach (say Gatland and all his losses against Australia this summer - did he accept the blame)?

Maybe its Feek who is trying to shaft Ross for Bent?

Podge_irl

JF100 wrote: »

Suggested Bench Strategy:
"Empty it at 60 mins.. whatever the scenario..."
What are the Pros & Cons? Discuss Ladies...

Cons: It gets ROG on the pitch.

Deano7788

jm08 wrote: »

Can you give me an instance of what a coach should say or do to accept the blame. Any examples of a coach (say Gatland and all his losses against Australia this summer - did he accept the blame)?

Maybe its Feek who is trying to shaft Ross for Bent?

Why would Gatland accept the blame for losses he wasn't there for?

part time punk

Podge_irl wrote: »

Cons: It gets ROG on the pitch.

Cons: Sexton moves to 12

part time punk

cbyrne11 wrote: »

I'm not sure we'll see O'Brien in 7 long term though, while no one ever mentions it I don't think Ferris has long left with the amount of injuries he has sustained I would actually like to see him retire for his sake, the man is going to end up crippled, saying that I love seeing him play when he is fit! But really SOB is a 6 learning to play 7, with Ferris gone I would expect him to go back to playing 6.

Agree about Ferris, it's sad but he never seems to get a 'break' with injuries. Fit and in form he is a sight to behold. On SOB not so sure, he is definitely one of the best 6s around but he also has the potential to really own the 7 jersey for Leinster and Ireland for a good while to come. I think whether by accident/design he may have found the right position.

Podge_irl

In all seriousness, I dislike the idea of pre-ordained substitutions. If a player is having a cracker of a game and looks to have some left in the tank then they should be left alone. Similarly, you shouldn't be afraid to bring subs on early in needs be.

JRant

Fireball07 wrote: »

Not blaming Earls outright, but people leaving him out of their teams...and then complaining that Trimble is being blamed for the same thing.

Well I gave a reason why I think Earls shouldn't be starting at 13. I think it's fair to say he is lacking his usual sharpness as he's just back from injury.
Trimbles spot on the team is always in question, the same rules don't apply to Earls or some others for that matter.


I would have played Toner for sure...but I suppose the argument would be DOC provided leadership in a fairly inexperienced pack.

Agree'd but it was still fairly pointless.

If that's Tuohy's attitude, we don't want him playing for Ireland tbh (I'm 99% sure it's not his attitude...I mean Marshall, Gilroy, Cave, Henderson, Jackson, Murray, DOC, McFadden all did well and were obviously trying)

I would say it's 100% not the case, I don't doubt for a second that Touhy didn't give his all.


Anyway, DOC has been in excellent form all season and if we were to go on form alone, would deserve a starting spot. (I do think other things should be taken into account...age, suitability for the game and proven skill level...BOD will always play even if he's not the most in-form, same with POC, Sexton)

That may well be true but surely we would benefit more by using the AI's to try out more players. We know what DOC can do and if needed during the 6N's will do a job. We don't know what some of the others can do as we haven't played them enough. If the 6N's is our main priority it makes no sense to not do this now.

Simply not true.

When Murray does provide quick ball, the problems are the same.

His decision making needs a lot of work imo. There's no way he should be starting as many games as he has.

The centres thing is a problem but it's not all their fault, it's the gameplan at fault, we can't put together an attacking move worth shít. That's the problem. We rely on individual brilliance to create anything, which is very hard to do in international rugby. And I just think that Gilroy is more likely to produce that something than Trimble.

I never said it was all their fault. It is certainly an issue that needs addressing though.

I agree Gilroy deserves a go but it's somewhat amusing when the only option trotted out is Trimble to make way. Why not Trimble to 14 ( where he plays his best rugby), Gilroy 11, Zebo 15. Or Trimble, Bowe, Gilroy together could be very tasty as well.

.

totallegend

Fireball07 wrote: »

I dunno... it doesn't make sense to me.

I reckon our pack will show up pretty well, it's more likely our backs who will fail to shine. There is no sense in making Ross a fall guy as he is by far and away the best TH in the country.

I think it's a bit over the top to blame Kidney for that, I don't think it's something he'd do tbh.

Whiff of Cordite has written about it here
http://whiffofcordite.com/2012/11/20/playing-favourites/
<edit, forget it, there are bigger things to worry about>

ray jay

Fireball07 wrote: »

I dunno... it doesn't make sense to me.

I reckon our pack will show up pretty well, it's more likely our backs who will fail to shine. There is no sense in making Ross a fall guy as he is by far and away the best TH in the country.

Yeah, the idea that Ross would be hung out to dry is a little far fetched considering he was the one player on the team who was outright irreplaceable for the last couple of years. Even if Bent did miraculously get promoted to starting tighthead for the 6 Nations, Ross would still be on the bench. You'd wonder if Thornley's insistence that there's a problem with Ross is a true reflection of Kidney's position or if he got the wrong end of the stick.

jm08

Deano7788 wrote: »

Why would Gatland accept the blame for losses he wasn't there for?

He was still around the squad. And Howley has said that he has been in contact with him recently.

Anyway, just pick any coach who has had a few losses. Conor O'Shea losing in Connacht and getting knocked out of the Heineken Cup. Did he say it was his fault that he didn't prepare the team well enough for what was ahead of them in Galway?

Did Cheika blame himself over losing to Toulouse in the semi. What has Schmidt got to say about losing two Rabo Finals with Leinster?

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

He was still around the squad. And Howley has said that he has been in contact with him recently.

Anyway, just pick any coach who has had a few losses. Conor O'Shea losing in Connacht and getting knocked out of the Heineken Cup. Did he say it was his fault that he didn't prepare the team well enough for what was ahead of them in Galway?

Did Cheika blame himself over losing to Toulouse in the semi. What has Schmidt got to say about losing two Rabo Finals with Leinster?

Those loses can be glossed over when you're generally winning more games than losing.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

Those loses can be glossed over when you're generally winning more games than losing.

Mancini held his hands up last week and said Man City lost because of him.

Coaches don't shirk responsibility.

goreyguy

no point in even arguing with him, kidney can do no wrong.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

Those loses can be glossed over when you're generally winning more games than losing.

OK, then maybe Mike Ruddock when he was coaching worchester, or Eric Elwood in Connacht. I just want an example of one rugby coach blaming themselves for a loss to see what they do say.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

OK, then maybe Mike Ruddock when he was coaching worchester, or Eric Elwood in Connacht. I just want an example of one rugby coach blaming themselves for a loss to see what they do say.

Why? It's not comparable to what we're discussing here. Eric Elwood hardly has the same resources (e.g players) as a Tier 2 nation (e.g Ireland).

Deano7788

.ak wrote: »

Why? It's not comparable to what we're discussing here. Eric Elwood hardly has the same resources (e.g players) as a Tier 2 nation (e.g Ireland).

Hey, we're Tier 1:mad: (for now anyway:o)

.ak

Deano7788 wrote: »

Hey, we're Tier 1:mad: (for now anyway:o)

Whoops... Well, we'll see for how long.

jacothelad

dtpc191991 wrote: »

It's a tough job but alright XD

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Touhy
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Marshall
13. BOD (c)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Best
17. Dennis Buckley
18. Bent
19. Ryan
20. Henry
21. Marshall
22. Jackson
23. Earls

I would expect rotation of the squad throughout the tournament so that younger guys like Cave, Henderson, Madigan, Zebo, Fitz, Jackson, Buckley, Bent etc would get starts.

Has Kidney been sacked then? If not, the only rotation there will be will be ROG on for Darcy.

goreyguy wrote: »

no point in even arguing with him, kidney can do no wrong.

Well, his shirts and ties are awful, is he colour blind? - but still his dress sense is better than his coaching.