Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Scioch

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Argentina apathetic about a game that decided their seeding position for the World Cup? Not a chance.

Not unthinkable seeing as they went into it knowing to lose out on a top 8 position they would have to be beaten by 15+, Samoa lose by less than 15 and Wales beat NZ or Australia.

They were all but guaranteed a top 8 seed and a loss by less than 15 would have sealed it. So I seen nothing to suggest they had intentions of trying to win that game and I'd wager they were happy to to lose (knwing it was unlikely they would lose out) but once they allowed Ireland to do whatever they wanted they couldnt stop it. And then France didnt destroy Samoa and they still are not out of the reckoning.

ScissorPaperRock

Scioch wrote: »

I think Matt Williams was being too kind to the team to be honest. Argentina well prepared and battle hardened ? More like apathetic and exhausted. They allowed us to steam roll them without ever putting up a fight. So I personally wouldnt be jotting it down as a win in the league of what we did to England or our hard fought win over the Aussies. We hammered a shít team same as we did the week before.

I know players can only play whats in front of them and I'm not saying anything bad about players of coaches in regards to the game but just as we cant declare our victory over Fiji to be proof we are a world class team neither can we use the game on Saturday to do it. We played one team who put up a fight and that was a horrendous Bok side and they beat us.

Apathetic? I can't see it. Their last game of the season, after working so hard and making such good progress, and with a World Cup seeding position to play for... not to mention that people refer to them generally as one of the most passionate teams going.

It's not just the fact that it was a victory for Ireland, but the manner of the victory. That was a top drawer performance in which we dominated throughout and in every aspect of the game.

Foxtrol

What The? wrote: »

A bit of respect for a man who has contributed over 1000 points playing for Ireland. Whatever his current form is I don't think any fan of a team should be so dismissive of its most capped player.

He wouldnt be getting his recent caps if it wasn't for Kidney. I hate seeing players making a mockery of themselves on the field rather than retire with some grace.

Scioch

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Apathetic? I can't see it. Their last game of the season, after working so hard and making such good progress, and with a World Cup seeding position to play for... not to mention that people refer to them generally as one of the most passionate teams going.

It's not just the fact that it was a victory for Ireland, but the manner of the victory. That was a top drawer performance in which we dominated throughout and in every aspect of the game.

You really think an Argentinian team who beat Wales and put up a good showing against France, who competed well in the four nations were utterly destroyed by us because we are just that good ?

You have more faith in the team than me and I'm not sure where you get it from. I seen an Argentinian team that was humiliated by a weakened Irish team without putting up a fight.

I just dont buy that we can do that to a decent side given all the evidence we have seen as to how poor we actually are.

desertcircus

What The? wrote: »

A bit of respect for a man who has contributed over 1000 points playing for Ireland. Whatever his current form is I don't think any fan of a team should be so dismissive of its most capped player.

His points and caps across his career aren't relevant to the question of whether his selection now is justified. He's done at this level, and posturing over alleged disrespect isn't going to change that.

totallegend

Lads, please don't get suckered in again.

ScissorPaperRock

Scioch wrote: »

You really think an Argentinian team who beat Wales and put up a good showing against France, who competed well in the four nations were utterly destroyed by us because we are just that good ?

Yes. It was more or less the same Argentinian team. We didn't have our strongest squad either, and apathy, at that stage, doesn't make sense.

If anything we probably took them by surprise, with a game that nobody would have seen coming based on our previous performances.

ray jay

O'Gara clearly isn't the second best 10 in the country and no amount of experience can make up for that fact. On top of that, using Paddy Jackson instead wouldn't represent much of a risk - you can see how well he bounced back after the rough time he had in the HC final last year, so even if his first international didn't go brilliantly, you could expect him to improve in later ones. ROG is going nowhere but down, the coach needs to bite the bullet and let him know his time is done. It'll be interesting to see whether Kidney or Penny will be the first to drop him though.

Scioch

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Yes. It was more or less the same Argentinian team. We didn't have our strongest squad either, and apathy, at that stage, doesn't make sense.

If anything we probably took them by surprise, with a game that nobody would have seen coming based on our previous performances.

I dunno I've seen a lot of people put the Argies performance down to fatigue. Apathy is a by product of that, they didnt seem that interested to me, perhaps the bulk of the reason was that they were too exhausted to show any interest.

But either way they didnt remotely resemble a decent side on Saturday and a lot of the Irish dominance was because of that and not the other way around. I know people are desperate for something to grasp onto when it comes to Irish rugby but Saturday wasnt what people think it was. It was a good showing against a team that played badly by a team missing a lot of starters. That wasnt a world class team we had out and it wasnt a world class team be beat. It was fun to watch but otherwise of little significance in terms of the overall position of Irish rugby. Little better than the Fiji game really. We know we have talent and we know it can be dangerous when used right. But we still havent figured out how to use it against decent opposition.

Lelantos

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah it's started already. The "before a balls been kicked" carry on.

Look, we played well on Saturday against a poor Argentinian side. And I'm very happy with that game. However we've seen a number of false dawns already from this Irish side and the overriding pattern from DKs tenure is one of inconsistency and a poor win loss ratio.

If we happen to win a GS playing rugby similar to what we saw at the weekend then great. Those of us who slammed him up until now can hold up our hands and say fair play to him. He and his staff learned their lessons, albeit the long and hard way, and we look like we can move forward. However it's going to take consistently good performances and results across the whole 6 Nations for us to do that. This was 1 good game. We've had 2.5 good games all year (excluding the uncapped Fiji game). Out of 10 games a 25% return like that is very poor. So please let's not start talking about Grand Slams or Championship wins just yet eh. Especially not with the way the French are playing.



Jaysis, he can lip sync better than most of the chancers in the charts at the moment. GET HIM ON THE BENCH DECCIE, THE KIDS MULTI TALENTED!

Pity you didn't take my comment in context.

Fireball07

Scioch wrote: »

I dunno I've seen a lot of people put the Argies performance down to fatigue. Apathy is a by product of that, they didnt seem that interested to me, perhaps the bulk of the reason was that they were too exhausted to show any interest.

But either way they didnt remotely resemble a decent side on Saturday and a lot of the Irish dominance was because of that and not the other way around. I know people are desperate for something to grasp onto when it comes to Irish rugby but Saturday wasnt what people think it was. It was a good showing against a team that played badly by a team missing a lot of starters. That wasnt a world class team we had out and it wasnt a world class team be beat. It was fun to watch but otherwise of little significance in terms of the overall position of Irish rugby. Little better than the Fiji game really. We know we have talent and we know it can be dangerous when used right. But we still havent figured out how to use it against decent opposition.

I don't think anyone thinks that Argentina were great opposition. But we did things in that match that we didn't even attempt to do in previous matches. We had players running great lines, taking the ball at nice angles, and getting in support of the player in possession. Sexton was taking the ball flatter, going on loops around, we had strike runners taking the ball at pace. All of this has been absent for years, bar the odd occasion.


We were not to know how good/bad Argentina would be. We set out to do it in the right manner, and that is what is most encouraging,

nerd69

jacothelad wrote: »

Interesting. So, in points per game he's behind:-

Dan Carter
Jonny Wilkinson
Neil Jenkins
Diego Domiguez
Stephen Jones
Andrew Mehrtens
Michael Lynagh
Percy Montgomery
Matt Burke
Gavin Hastings
Hugo Porta
Grant Fox
Morne Steyn
Gonzalo Queseda.

He did manage to score 0.53 points per game more than Humphreys thopugh so that's that argument settled.

As for him having something still to give - yes he has. His farewell and thanks for the watch speech.

to start i dont think o gara should be in the team right now but have some respect
o gara has won
2 heineken cups
4 celtic leagues
a 6 nations (grand slam)
4 triple crowns
gone on 3 lions tours
scored over 1000 points and won 125 caps for ireland
scored over 2500 and won 228 caps for munster
is the all time leading scorer on heineken cup and 6 nations history
all from arguably the most pivotal position on the pitch

so no he should not be on the bench over jackson but how about having a bit of respect for him.

Quint2010

nerd69 wrote: »

to start i dont think o gara should be in the team right now but have some respect
o gara has won
2 heineken cups
4 celtic leagues
a 6 nations (grand slam)
4 triple crowns
gone on 3 lions tours
scored over 1000 points and won 125 caps for ireland
scored over 2500 and won 228 caps for munster
is the all time leading scorer on heineken cup and 6 nations history
all from arguably the most pivotal position on the pitch

so no he should not be on the bench over jackson but how about having a bit of respect for him.

O'Gara should start by showing some respect for himself by retiring from international rugby. Now.

fitz

Fireball07 wrote: »

I don't think anyone thinks that Argentina were great opposition. But we did things in that match that we didn't even attempt to do in previous matches. We had players running great lines, taking the ball at nice angles, and getting in support of the player in possession. Sexton was taking the ball flatter, going on loops around, we had strike runners taking the ball at pace. All of this has been absent for years, bar the odd occasion.


We were not to know how good/bad Argentina would be. We set out to do it in the right manner, and that is what is most encouraging,

Begs the question...why have we NOT been doing those things for the last three years. It's not for lack of the player's capability.

That level of intransigence in adapting to what works is unacceptable in an international coach imo, and is exactly why we can't risk any more time under his rein when he's shown that despite these sporadic performances, he's likely to revert to type.

jacothelad

What The? wrote: »

A bit of respect for a man who has contributed over 1000 points playing for Ireland. Whatever his current form is I don't think any fan of a team should be so dismissive of its most capped player.

Why? Simply because he is the most capped player? I respect his achievements. They are unlikely to be equalled. I don't respect the number of caps he has. A lot of them in the last two years or so have been given to him when he has no right to them. Professional rugby isn't a charity though and even ROG shouldn't get caps because he was once good. He isn't any more. Then neither is Mike Gibson or McBride or Tom Kiernan. I also respect these guys and other players such as Wood but I wouldn't want him playing. Have a look at the post to which I was replying. By the way, in life respect should be earned. There does come a time however when the 'respect' credit account can go into the red. As is ROG's. So save your pontificating as I certainly don't need you lecturing me about it.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jacothelad wrote: »

Why? Simply because he is the most capped player? I respect his achievements. They are unlikely to be equalled. I don't respect the number of caps he has. A lot of them in the last two years or so have been given to him when he has no right to them. Professional rugby isn't a charity though and even ROG shouldn't get caps because he was once good. He isn't any more. Then neither is Mike Gibson or McBride or Tom Kiernan. I also respect these guys and other players such as Wood but I wouldn't want him playing. Have a look at the post to which I was replying. By the way, in life respect should be earned. There does come a time however when the 'respect' credit account can go into the red. As is ROG's. So save your pontificating as I certainly don't need you lecturing me about it.

Can any of them play 10? I reckon they aren't that much older than that ROG fellow :rolleyes::rolleyes::p

jacothelad

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Can any of them play 10? I reckon they aren't that much older than that ROG fellow :rolleyes::rolleyes::p

Well Gibson started his international career at 10 - so yes. I used to laugh when I heard punters blathering on about Wilkinson and his great tackling as a 10. Gibson was a superb tackler and a far better athlete.

Podge_irl

I don't want ROG to end as Ireland's most capped player. He doesn't deserve it.

jacothelad

nerd69 wrote: »

to start i dont think o gara should be in the team right now but have some respect
o gara has won
2 heineken cups
4 celtic leagues
a 6 nations (grand slam)
4 triple crowns
gone on 3 lions tours
scored over 1000 points and won 125 caps for ireland
scored over 2500 and won 228 caps for munster
is the all time leading scorer on heineken cup and 6 nations history
all from arguably the most pivotal position on the pitch

so no he should not be on the bench over jackson but how about having a bit of respect for him.

So, you don't want him to give a retirement speech. Interesting. BTW in what way was I not showing him 'respect'? What is this needn for it? Are we now getting some sort of Irish version of American or London Yardie gang culture?

Benny Cake

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't want ROG to end as Ireland's most capped player. He doesn't deserve it.

Bitter bullsh1t. What qualifies you to determine what o'gara does, or does not, deserve? He has done as much as any Irishman for irish rugby.....

tolosenc

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't want ROG to end as Ireland's most capped player. He doesn't deserve it.

ROG had the 10 jersey unopposed for 6 years, which has contributed to his numbers in the records based on amounts. Only his last 15 or so caps shouldn't have been given.

There is only one man that should have the records for Ireland, and that is BOD. He is just on another level to any player this country has ever produced.

Scioch

tolosenc wrote: »

ROG had the 10 jersey unopposed for 6 years, which has contributed to his numbers in the records based on amounts. Only his last 15 or so caps shouldn't have been given.

There is only one man that should have the records for Ireland, and that is BOD. He is just on another level to any player this country has ever produced.

May go see him play before he's finished. Be shameful if I didnt see the greatest rugby player in Irish history play with my own two eyes.

Otacon

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't want ROG to end as Ireland's most capped player. He doesn't deserve it.

Unlike many here, I admire ROG's spirit and will. He will fight for every scrap of game-time he can get. I hope other players take up that attitude. However, whether he plays or not is not a decision made by him.

jacothelad

Otacon wrote: »

Unlike many here, I admire ROG's spirit and will. He will fight for every scrap of game-time he can get. I hope other players take up that attitude. However, whether he plays or not is not a decision made by him.

It could be though. His business reported a loss this year of over E1,000,000 so he needs the money.

Podge_irl

Benny Cake wrote: »

Bitter bullsh1t.

Probably. You're probably correct, but his being in the squad/team for the last two years fustrated me which is more Kidney's fault than his. I'm being unfair hut I just think it's a record that should belong to a player like BOD.

I probably shouldn't have said it. It's just something that sticks in my craw somewhat.

Benny Cake

Podge_irl wrote: »

Probably. You're probably correct, but his being in the squad/team for the last two years fustrated me which is more Kidney's fault than his. I'm being unfair hut I just think it's a record that should belong to a player like BOD.

I probably shouldn't have said it. It's just something that sticks in my craw somewhat.

Fair point. I think ROG based discussions bring out the worst in all of us!!

Lelantos

If Rog is on a central contract given out by the IRFU & he is picked for Irish squads, can he refuse under the terms of contract?

thomond2006

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't want ROG to end as Ireland's most capped player. He doesn't deserve it.

danthefan

Benny Cake wrote: »

Bitter bullsh1t. What qualifies you to determine what o'gara does, or does not, deserve? He has done as much as any Irishman for irish rugby.....

There's no room for misty eyed bull**** in professional sport. He has had a great career but he is an absolute liability now and should be out of the team/squad. End of story.

Benny Cake

danthefan wrote: »

There's no room for misty eyed bull**** in professional sport. He has had a great career but he is an absolute liability now and should be out of the team/squad. End of story.

This point has no relevance to the discussion. I wasn't vindicating his position in the squad. Work away though.....