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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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    #2222
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    There was an interview in the Sunday Tribune today with Les Kiss. He was saying that the players highlighted Ireland's attacking weakness at the get together in Carton House at Christmas and felt we were to predictable with the ball


    If you read that piece again (in the Sunday Times, not former Tribune), you'll find it difficult to attribute that quote to Les.


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    #2223
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Hagan was under a lot of pressure in the scrum imo. Never seemed comfortable. Won a key turnover on the deck, but he was getting a bit bullied in the scrum which is not good to see.

    From what we could see he seemed to be faring better than Healy for the most part. Will have to watch the game again at home so. We were worried before-hand that he'd get well and truly mullered by Lelema-whateverhisnameis but he didn't really seem to. I never thought he looked in charge or anything, just that he managed to hold his own at this level after such little game time.


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    #2224
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    molloyjh wrote: »
    From what we could see he seemed to be faring better than Healy for the most part. Will have to watch the game again at home so. We were worried before-hand that he'd get well and truly mullered by Lelema-whateverhisnameis but he didn't really seem to. I never thought he looked in charge or anything, just that he managed to hold his own at this level after such little game time.

    That's exactly what I thought. There was some scrums where he went backwards, but the majority were held pretty steady. He wasn't dominant but solid. I was also pleased that after about a million scrums, he seemed to be able to keep it up ok. I too was worried he would be blown away, and was pleasantly surprised.


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    #2225
    ed7890
    Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ed7890


    molloyjh wrote: »
    I thought he did well against Montpellier on Saturday. Not sure of his game time vs Archers though. That's about the only thing that could have sung it I reckon.

    He's had more game time than Archer this season, so it's not based on that.

    I thought Hagan had a tough time in the scrum at the weekend. Don't know much about the guy he was up against, but he was sent up and/or backwards in most of the scrums. Even the one that lead to Kearney's try, I think if Heaslip hadn't gotten it out fast it could have been given against them.


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    #2226
    yimrsg
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭yimrsg


    Hagan received a good bit of treatment either to the head or neck about midway in the first half after tackling the Montpellier fullback, considering that I thought he did pretty ok in the scrums.


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    #2227
    ambid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭ambid


    JustinDee wrote: »
    If you read that piece again (in the Sunday Times, not former Tribune), you'll find it difficult to attribute that quote to Les.

    Regardless of who gave the quote, it's extremely encouraging that the team have recognised attack as a weakness in the world cup. Kiss has always appeared to be an innovative and an excellent coach so I'm sure we'll see a huge improvement in Ireland's attack over the next month or so.
    molloyjh wrote: »
    From what we could see he seemed to be faring better than Healy for the most part. Will have to watch the game again at home so. We were worried before-hand that he'd get well and truly mullered by Lelema-whateverhisnameis but he didn't really seem to. I never thought he looked in charge or anything, just that he managed to hold his own at this level after such little game time.

    Schmidt acknowledged Hagan struggled in the scrum and suggested Ruddock has some work to do to improve his scrummaging (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0123/1224310624977.html).


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    #2228
    Zzippy
    Registered Users Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    ambid wrote: »
    Regardless of who gave the quote, it's extremely encouraging that the team have recognised attack as a weakness in the world cup. Kiss has always appeared to be an innovative and an excellent coach so I'm sure we'll see a huge improvement in Ireland's attack over the next month or so.



    Schmidt acknowledged Hagan struggled in the scrum and suggested Ruddock has some work to do to improve his scrummaging (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0123/1224310624977.html).

    I think he was actually talking - tongue firmly in cheek - about Nacewa scrumming at flanker...
    The ex-Connacht lock is a strong scrummager, which is perhaps why he had been picked to pack down behind Hagan in the absence of Ross. In his absence, Leo Cullen switched from the loosehead side to behind Hagan, with Ruddock moving into the secondrow and Nacewa to the blindside of the backrow.

    “I think he’s got some work to do there,” smiled Schmidt. “I think he needs a few pies and a few pints to really get enough power and to give Cian (Healy) a little more of a hand, I thought Cian was having to do a fair bit of that job himself but I suppose that’s one of the things that we appreciate; that versatility that Isa gives us.”


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    #2229
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Hagans problem was that the Mont. LH was scrummaging totally illegally. Hagan was allowing him to bore in. It was clear that the Mont. guy recognised Hagans inexperience and knew he would get away with it. Hagan should have taken to the deck more often and held off for the engage on his own terms. Also has to be said his footwork still needs huge work. He ended up facing the left touchline far too often. I don't think hell start any more big games this season.


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    #2230
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    ambid wrote: »
    Regardless of who gave the quote, it's extremely encouraging that the team have recognised attack as a weakness in the world cup. Kiss has always appeared to be an innovative and an excellent coach so I'm sure we'll see a huge improvement in Ireland's attack over the next month or so.

    And good to see they were happy about what Kiss and co is going to do to the backline for the 6 nations.


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    #2231
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,931 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Hagans problem was that the Mont. LH was scrummaging totally illegally. Hagan was allowing him to bore in. It was clear that the Mont. guy recognised Hagans inexperience and knew he would get away with it. Hagan should have taken to the deck more often and held off for the engage on his own terms. Also has to be said his footwork still needs huge work. He ended up facing the left touchline far too often. I don't think hell start any more big games this season.

    He was scrummaging on Hagan's chest, i.e. getting under him and his bind was often late to say the least.


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    #2232
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I've heard that Gordon Darcy is about to sign a 2 year contract extension with the IRFU. He's been a great player for Ireland but he's no longer up to test level anymore.

    If this is true then it goes to show how backward and conservative the IRFU are. O'Callaghan signed a new central contract recently and he's not international standard anymore either. Ireland will never reach it's full potential at international level if we keep handing out central contracts to players that no longer deserve tham.


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    #2233
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Clegg wrote: »
    I've heard that Gordon Darcy is about to sign a 2 year contract extension with the IRFU. He's been a great player for Ireland but he's no longer up to test level anymore.

    If this is true then it goes to show how backward and conservative the IRFU are. O'Callaghan signed a new central contract recently and he's not international standard anymore either. Ireland will never reach it's full potential at international level if we keep handing out central contracts to players that no longer deserve tham.
    That, if true, is nuts.

    Not surprising. That union needs to be cleared out before it wastes more of our money.


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    #2234
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Its a 2 year Leinster contract according to http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/darcy-trusts-next-crop-to-fill-odriscoll-chasm-2997233.html

    Does that mean that the IRFU are brilliant now that they are not giving Darce a central contract?


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    #2235
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭fitz


    I think the central contract system needs to be canned tbh.
    I would think that it would be more effective to pay an "International Selection Bonus" or something like that to reward those who get into the Irish squad. Much simpler and doesn't waste money. Would also remove any perception of players getting selected because the IRFU feel they have to get value for the money they've paid out on centrally contracted players.


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    #2236
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭fitz


    jm08 wrote: »
    Its a 2 year Leinster contract according to http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/darcy-trusts-next-crop-to-fill-odriscoll-chasm-2997233.html

    Does that mean that the IRFU are brilliant now that they are not giving Darce a central contract?

    No, it says he's set to sign a contract "that will keep him at Leinster".
    Could very well be a central contract.


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    #2237
    DeDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭DeDoc


    The problem with that (abandoning central contracts) is that it would almost inevitably lead to bidding wars between provinces for the services of international players. At least this way, front-line internationals are not going to move - barring some personal circumstances etc, which is, IMO, the way it needs to be.


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    #2238
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    fitz wrote: »
    No, it says he's set to sign a contract "that will keep him at Leinster".
    Could very well be a central contract.

    I doubt it - Darce lost his central contract 2/3 years ago (along with Stringer & Marcus Horan).


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    #2239
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭fitz


    DeDoc wrote: »
    The problem with that (abandoning central contracts) is that it would almost inevitably lead to bidding wars between provinces for the services of international players. At least this way, front-line internationals are not going to move - barring some personal circumstances etc, which is, IMO, the way it needs to be.

    But if the provinces are all on an even footing, it's really just up to them to deal with their player budgets. I don't see why that's a problem.


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    #2240
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    fitz wrote: »
    No, it says he's set to sign a contract "that will keep him at Leinster".
    Could very well be a central contract.
    An extension to his current contract, which is a contract with Leinster branch. Not a central contract.


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    #2241
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭fitz


    jm08 wrote: »
    I doubt it - Darce lost his central contract 2/3 years ago (along with Stringer & Marcus Horan).

    That's true, I'd forgotten about that...most likely a Leinster contract then.
    As it should be really, centrally contracting players who are coming to the end of their careers is a bit daft. At that stage, the tax benefits of finishing your career here make it unlikely you'll up sticks and head abroad, so there's no real need for the IRFU to incentivise staying by offering a central contract.

    EDIT: Thanks Justin. I'd imagine that'll bring Darcy up to retirement time.


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    #2242
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    fitz wrote: »
    That's true, I'd forgotten about that...most likely a Leinster contract then.
    As it should be really, centrally contracting players who are coming to the end of their careers is a bit daft. At that stage, the tax benefits of finishing your career here make it unlikely you'll up sticks and head abroad, so there's no real need for the IRFU to incentivise staying by offering a central contract.
    A central contract significantly lightens a province's own budget by underwriting player's salary.
    This is a major factor in a provincial branch being able to afford to run its professional team, its clubs and its schools.


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    #2243
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I'll have to find something else to be outraged about... :/


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    #2244
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭fitz


    JustinDee wrote: »
    A central contract significantly lightens a province's own budget by underwriting player's salary.
    This is a major factor in a provincial branch being able to afford to run its professional team, its clubs and its schools.

    I get that, but if the players the centrally contracted players were getting a smaller salary from the branch, and "International" bonus payments from the IRFU which would bring up that salary wouldn't that provide a balance?


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    #2245
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    fitz wrote: »
    I get that, but if the players the centrally contracted players were getting a smaller salary from the branch, and "International" bonus payments from the IRFU which would bring up that salary wouldn't that provide a balance?
    You're still increasing the salaries bill for the province if that is the case.
    This is what the branch would not want.


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    #2246
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭fitz


    JustinDee wrote: »
    You're still increasing the salaries bill for the province if that is the case.
    This is what the branch would not want.

    The provinces get funding from the IRFU right?
    Why not increase that funding to deal with those salary bill increases, and then the IRFU would have a lesser salary bill for the international players appearances?
    It's all the same pot of money, but it would more fairly reward those in the international team...


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    #2247
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Central contracts are a very good thing, no reason to get rid of them.


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    #2248
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I'll have to find something else to be outraged about... :/

    That's the beauty of boards.ie, you never have to go too long before another crime against nature happens and we're all up in arms :cool:


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    #2249
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭fitz


    totallegend wrote: »
    That's the beauty of boards.ie, you never have to go too long before another crime against nature happens and we're all up in arms :cool:

    Earls at 13. :p


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    #2250
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    JustinDee wrote: »
    A central contract significantly lightens a province's own budget by underwriting player's salary.
    This is a major factor in a provincial branch being able to afford to run its professional team, its clubs and its schools.

    Does it not also significantly lighten the number of games a player is allowed play for his province?

    i.e. if the centrally contracted guys could play more than 10 league games per season, the provinces wouldn't need as many players.

    Just throwing it out there.


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    #2251
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    totallegend wrote: »
    Does it not also significantly lighten the number of games a player is allowed play for his province?

    i.e. if the centrally contracted guys could play more than 10 league games per season, the provinces wouldn't need as many players.

    Just throwing it out there.

    Don't think that's a central contract issue. Any Irish player involved in international games faces restricted game time at provincial level.


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