Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

bilston

.ak wrote: »

Also, interesting 6 nations stat for the weekend... Ireland won the most turn overs of all three games.

Who needs an openside anyway? :pac:

*awaits the POM/Heaslip/SOB/whoknows debate*

Very interesting stat. I think SOB is a bit wasted at 7 myself and ideally would prefer him to share the workload with Ferris at 6, that would be better for Ferris given his dodgy knee and we'd get the best out of O'Brien as well. But at the same time as good a player as POM appears to be I'm not sure he's this saviour at 7 we want him to be either.

bilston

.ak wrote: »

Watched the game again last night (in glorious HD on a 10 foot projector, nyomnyom...), and I must say I don't think Sexton was poor at all in the first half. He definitely didn't deserve MoTM. A little nervous at first perhaps, but in terms of attack you could definitely see what he was at. His execution just wasn't there, but often that was down to luck. His 'almost' try when he stumbled into Parisse, or that break and sublime offload to Earls that didn't stick. If those kind of things stuck we'd have been sticking Sexton on some sort of throne. But they didn't, and so he had a 'poor game' apparently.

One thing I will say tho is his restarts are no where near as good as they have been. He seemed nervous pumping the ball, and none of the restarts were ever quite on the money. That's fixable though, as we've seen he's capable of some pretty good restarts.

Nice

I haven't watched the game again but my perception at the time was that Sexton didn't put us in the right areas in the first half when we were getting really slow ball, that's probably team orders in fairness but they maybe weren't expecting Murray to have have a cup of tea at every ruck before he decided to pass the ball! Slow ball at ruck time deep in your own half is not the ball to shift wide IMO and that's what we did a lot of the time. On the few occasions Sexton did kick it wasn't always of the standard it should have been.

He played a lot better in the second half, maybe due to having Reddan at 9 for most of it, maybe because the addition of Ryan and O'Mahony provided us with quicker ball or maybe he just got his game together after half time.

irishbucsfan

bamboozle wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Thank you, I just can't understand where all the Sexton love has come from for his performance last week. Yeah he played well in the second half (he played 12 for 10-15 mins of it) and yes his goal kicking was very good, but in the first half he was poor. MOM my a***

7 kicks from 8, got the back line working, absolute peach of a pass for Bowe's 2nd try, there were better irish performers in Kearney, Ferris & D'arcy though.

That's what he said though. He played well in the second half.

In the first half though he was brutal. He's obviously not comfortable with playing with that poor quality service. Which he's going to get again this weekend. At least his defense will still be exceptional.

Fireball07

.ak wrote: »

Also, interesting 6 nations stat for the weekend... Ireland won the most turn overs of all three games.

Who needs an openside anyway? :pac:

*awaits the POM/Heaslip/SOB/whoknows debate*

And which Irish player won most turnovers individually? Heaslip or POC?

siltirocker

bilston wrote: »

Nice

I haven't watched the game again but my perception at the time was that Sexton didn't put us in the right areas in the first half when we were getting really slow ball, that's probably team orders in fairness but they maybe weren't expecting Murray to have have a cup of tea at every ruck before he decided to pass the ball! Slow ball at ruck time deep in your own half is not the ball to shift wide IMO and that's what we did a lot of the time. On the few occasions Sexton did kick it wasn't always of the standard it should have been.

He played a lot better in the second half, maybe due to having Reddan at 9 for most of it, maybe because the addition of Ryan and O'Mahony provided us with quicker ball or maybe he just got his game together after half time.

I spoke with a player in Dublin this time last year with whom I have a mutual friend and brought up his lack of great form in 2010 after a great 2009. He asked me bluntly what in particulars of his game IMO were poor during this time and I reluctantly told him. He said that what he was doing was team orders.

He saw himself that the tactics applied to him weren't working and reverted back to his old game plan without consulting the coaches. His form returned because of this and nothing had been said to him by Gaffney since.

Team orders can occasionally make great players look average.

siltirocker

siltirocker wrote: »

Team orders can occasionally make great players look average.

as we've seen for 2.5 seasons of Internationals unfortunately.

leftleg

Fireball07 wrote: »

And which Irish player won most turnovers individually? Heaslip or POC?

I dunno?? But whether POC won more turnovers or not hes still got a number 5 on his back....so its a bit irrelevant. In the backrow Heaslip is clearly the turnover king.

JustinDee

Fireball07 wrote: »

And which Irish player won most turnovers individually? Heaslip or POC?

Heaslip has done so in all bar one game (Wales in RWC) this season.

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

Heaslip has done so in all bar one game (Wales in RWC) this season.

How can he get that many turnovers when hes hiding out on the wing.......(joke)

Fireball07

leftleg wrote: »

I dunno?? But whether POC won more turnovers or not hes still got a number 5 on his back....so its a bit irrelevant. In the backrow Heaslip is clearly the turnover king.

Oh I know that but POC turned over 2 against Italy and I don't honestly care who is turning the ball over as long as someone is. I mean Strauss is usually heavily involved in that area for Leinster.

JustinDee wrote: »

Heaslip has done so in all bar one game (Wales in RWC) this season.

Thanks.

Moflojo

The pattern that I noticed in the first half against Italy was that when Ireland had the ball inside their own half they'd put the ball wide in the first phase and then leather the ball downfield in the second phase. I'm sure this happened at least twice in the first half but it could have been four or five times. The kicks downfield were aimless and rarely allowed our players to compete for the ball.

If Ireland kick any ball downfield to the French, whether it finds touch or not, we're in serious trouble. I'd happily watch 80 minutes of 9 man rugby against France than risk giving their backs a chance to run back at us.

For Paws

The game against Italy was a good example of what you do when playing 'poorer' sides.
Wear down their defense by carrying for 60 mins, and then speed it up when tiredness sets in, miss-match appear, and mistakes are made. It's also the game France will play against us. I'd start Ferris 6, POM at 7 and D Ryan at 8, but bring in Jamie & SOB as the game opens up. Also stop using POC & DOC to carry, they rarely make the ground or commit as many defenders as our front 3.

.ak

bilston wrote: »

Nice

I haven't watched the game again but my perception at the time was that Sexton didn't put us in the right areas in the first half when we were getting really slow ball, that's probably team orders in fairness but they maybe weren't expecting Murray to have have a cup of tea at every ruck before he decided to pass the ball! Slow ball at ruck time deep in your own half is not the ball to shift wide IMO and that's what we did a lot of the time. On the few occasions Sexton did kick it wasn't always of the standard it should have been.

He played a lot better in the second half, maybe due to having Reddan at 9 for most of it, maybe because the addition of Ryan and O'Mahony provided us with quicker ball or maybe he just got his game together after half time.

To a point I agree. BBC were banging the 'right areas' book too. But three weeks ago we we played Wales and we tried kicking into the 'right areas' and we were all pulling our hair out over it. So it's a case of 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't'.

There's a balance though that Sexton hasn't found. I'd put it down to a couple of things. One is Murray yes, but we can't soley blame him - that'd be too convenient. Behind Conters at Leinster Sexton was very hot and cold. He'd come on and have a stormer of a game one week, and then look very average the next. While it's not the same with all OHs I think he needs a good few games under his belt with similar combinations before he finds his rhythm.

Someone mentioned it previously that Murray has already had more Irish starts in a row than Sexton has had in his Irish career. I think that's an absolute sin when you're trying to help your future playmaker settle into the squad.

I often ask why Sexton looks so comfortable in blue, and not in green. Ofcourse it's a ridiculous question as there are about 100 different possible reasons. I disregard the reason that 'international rugby' poses bigger pressure and he's not up to that. He is. We've seen him perform in some Leinster's and Ireland's biggest games. To break it down simply I think the set up is just two worlds apart, and quite simply Sexton is not 100% comfortable with the Irish setup. Maybe as mentioned above it's issues with 'team orders'. It'd be nice if he did what the mentioned player did and disregarded team orders and just worked with his inside center that he's used too...

But, if that happens, what does that say about the Irish setup? :eek:

leftleg

For Paws wrote: »

The game against Italy was a good example of what you do when playing 'poorer' sides. It's also the game France will play against us.

So were the top tier teams Italy; good enough to beat lower teams but just not good enough to trouble the bigger teams; hmmmm you could be onto something there.

For Paws wrote: »

I'd start Ferris 6, POM at 7 and D Ryan at 8, but bring in Jamie & SOB as the game opens up.

Im not sure what you mean here; are you saying put Donncha Ryan at 8?? if true lmfao

.ak

leftleg wrote: »

Im not sure what you mean here; are you saying put Donncha Ryan at 8?? if true lmfao

Or Dom Ryan. Which is also quite funny.

.ak

One thing I also noticed watching the game again, I watched POC quite closely. In defense he was one of the best players in the pack. His was real niggily, and does what any good lock does, disrupt rucks and mauls. His work rate was amazing. The only problem I had with him was in attack. He absolutely murdered the ball. We'd be clearly making easy yards and the ball would go to him and he would try and break the gain line and would end up going backwards because of his frame. Then we'd be sucked back in after playing loose.

But one or two times he offloaded instead and the Italians didn't know what to do...


Maybe it's a big trick for the French match, if they're doing their video analysis they're probably thinking 'Okay POC will always go into contact with the ball, we commit numbers, and we'll turn over that ball'. But in reality POC is working on his SBW offload and will setup a hat-trick of tries in Paris.


Oh to dream... :rolleyes:

Patsy fyre

What time is kick off?

For Paws

leftleg wrote: »

So were the top tier teams Italy; good enough to beat lower teams but just not good enough to trouble the bigger teams; hmmmm you could be onto something there.



Im not sure what you mean here; are you saying put Donncha Ryan at 8?? if true lmfao

Yep. He can line-out jump anywhere in the line, his defensive work at scrum is sound (& aggressive - I'd want Parra living in fear !) and he carrries & protects ball very well. Tell him to put the energy he's usually use over 80 into 55 mins and he'll perform big-time)

.ak

Patsy fyre wrote: »

What time is kick off?

3pm I think?

.ak

For Paws wrote: »

Yep. He can line-out jump anywhere in the line, his defensive work at scrum is sound (& aggressive - I'd want Parra living in fear !) and he carrries & protects ball very well. Tell him to put the energy he's usually use over 80 into 55 mins and he'll perform big-time)

Ah here. He's a great lock, and a handy option in the backrow, but he's no 8.

Tis a fine barn, but tis no pool English.

For Paws

Kick off is at 3pm

(allow 60 mins to defrost)

irishbucsfan

For Paws wrote: »

leftleg wrote: »

So were the top tier teams Italy; good enough to beat lower teams but just not good enough to trouble the bigger teams; hmmmm you could be onto something there.



Im not sure what you mean here; are you saying put Donncha Ryan at 8?? if true lmfao

Yep. He can line-out jump anywhere in the line, his defensive work at scrum is sound (& aggressive - I'd want Parra living in fear !) and he carrries & protects ball very well. Tell him to put the energy he's usually use over 80 into 55 mins and he'll perform big-time)

When have you seen him play 8?

jm08

.ak wrote: »

Someone mentioned it previously that Murray has already had more Irish starts in a row than Sexton has had in his Irish career. I think that's an absolute sin when you're trying to help your future playmaker settle into the squad.

Not true - its amazing how fiction becomes fact even when you correct them on it :rolleyes:

Sexton started the following games in a row (6): Aus, SA, NZ, AUS, Italy & France.

Murray has started 4 in a row so far (Italyx2, wales x2) (4)

bamboozle

For Paws wrote: »

The game against Italy was a good example of what you do when playing 'poorer' sides.
Wear down their defense by carrying for 60 mins, and then speed it up when tiredness sets in, miss-match appear, and mistakes are made. It's also the game France will play against us. I'd start Ferris 6, POM at 7 and D Ryan at 8, but bring in Jamie & SOB as the game opens up. Also stop using POC & DOC to carry, they rarely make the ground or commit as many defenders as our front 3.

let me get this straight, you'd drop Heaslip & SOB for POM and Donncadh Ryan???????? so our current unbalanced backrow would then have 2 blind sides and a 2nd row in it.

Ryan at 8 - that's a first.

leftleg

For Paws wrote: »

Yep. He can line-out jump anywhere in the line, his defensive work at scrum is sound (& aggressive - I'd want Parra living in fear !) and he carrries & protects ball very well.

Hes still not an 8; open thyne eyes

For Paws

.ak wrote: »

Ah here. He's a great lock, and a handy option in the backrow, but he's no 8.

Tis a fine barn, but tis no pool English.

IMO the French will be looking forward to scrum time.
No harm having a 3rd 'lock'

Number eight is the only position that does not have a specific name in English and is simply referred to as "number eight" or "eighthman". They bind between the locks at the back of the scrum, providing extra weight at the push.[83] Number eights interact with the scrum-half at the back of the scrum to control and provide clean ball for the backs.[83] They can also pick the ball from the back of the scrum and run with it or flick it to the scrum half. At lineouts they can be either another jumper or a lifter.[83] Around the field they have a similar set of responsibilities as the flankers at the breakdown.[83] Number eights are often strong ball carriers and run off the backs in an attempt to break through or push past the opposition's defensive line.

Which function do you reckon DR can't fulfill ?

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

Not true - its amazing how fiction becomes fact even when you correct them on it :rolleyes:

Sexton started the following games in a row (6): Aus, SA, NZ, AUS, Italy & France.

Murray has started 4 in a row so far (Italyx2, wales x2) (4)

I stand corrected. As I said I was just quoting someone on the thread.

Thanks.

.ak

For Paws wrote: »

IMO the French will be looking forward to scrum time.
No harm having a 3rd 'lock'

Number eight is the only position that does not have a specific name in English and is simply referred to as "number eight" or "eighthman". They bind between the locks at the back of the scrum, providing extra weight at the push.[83] Number eights interact with the scrum-half at the back of the scrum to control and provide clean ball for the backs.[83] They can also pick the ball from the back of the scrum and run with it or flick it to the scrum half. At lineouts they can be either another jumper or a lifter.[83] Around the field they have a similar set of responsibilities as the flankers at the breakdown.[83] Number eights are often strong ball carriers and run off the backs in an attempt to break through or push past the opposition's defensive line.

Which function do you reckon DR can't fulfill ?

It doesn't mention the rugby brain that you can't teach there. Ryan is a great grunt, and should be starting. But at 4.

If I were to copy and paste the descriptive qualities of a 12 you'd think I'd be talking about SOB. But we all know in reality that's as mad as a cut snake.

leftleg

For Paws wrote: »

IMO the French will be looking forward to scrum time.
No harm having a 3rd 'lock'

Number eight is the only position that does not have a specific name in English and is simply referred to as "number eight" or "eighthman". They bind between the locks at the back of the scrum, providing extra weight at the push.[83] Number eights interact with the scrum-half at the back of the scrum to control and provide clean ball for the backs.[83] They can also pick the ball from the back of the scrum and run with it or flick it to the scrum half. At lineouts they can be either another jumper or a lifter.[83] Around the field they have a similar set of responsibilities as the flankers at the breakdown.[83] Number eights are often strong ball carriers and run off the backs in an attempt to break through or push past the opposition's defensive line.

Which function do you reckon DR can't fulfill ?

Nothing to do with it at all; He simply is not an 8. full stop.

Otherwise your right; everyone else is wrong; Kidney is wrong for playing him there; Schmidt who wants him at Leinster as a lock is wrong; Tony McGahan who plays him at Munster as a 4 is wrong; everyone is wrong and your right;
Thats really what your statement boils down to.

smurphy29

There was a game against Samoa in the middle that broke that run, jm08.

Donncha Ryan at 8. A position we have no record of him ever playing, and to which he is hopelessly unsuited. Away to France. Where do these posters dream this stuff up?