Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Leinster7

Even if Kidney changed the team we won't beat France next Saturday under his management. The players dont have true confidence in the management or their underperforming gameplans. We will be lucky to beat Scotland and England imo.

shuffol

Impeccable logic as always from Farrelly, of course its also worth pointing out that TOL was selected for the Lions, maybe we should start him.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea. I was doing most of my complaining about O'Brien being completely omitted from the 22s for SA/NZ despite being the best player in Europe at the time. Also starting Hayes at TH in all three games, which was very beneficial obviously

so, what is the correct number of games to play in a row for a new young player. are they up to playing 6 top tier countries one after the other ? should madigan be given 6 games in a row in leinster because he would need a run of games as a new young player and schmidt should forget this rotation lark ?

I don't care at all about how many they play in a row. I would probably start ROG every now and then for Ireland even still if I was coach.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

so, what is the correct number of games to play in a row for a new young player. are they up to playing 6 top tier countries one after the other ? should madigan be given 6 games in a row in leinster because he would need a run of games as a new young player and schmidt should forget this rotation lark ?

It's different for internationals, as you mentioned a few posts ago.

Not rocket science as you said yourself.

Madigan won't be started because he'll get plenty of opportunity with his province over a very long season. Sexton won't get that opportunity and so should be given the starts with combinations he's used to until he becomes settled in his role with Ireland.

The same thing happened with ROG behind Humphries. Took him a good while to get settled at starting at 10 because of the gaps in the season. But it helped having Stringer - that partnership worked because it was tried and tested at provincial level.

Fishooks12

leftleg wrote: »

Farrelly strikes again

"The main area of debate centred around the marked increase in tempo and intensity which coincided with Eoin Reddan's appearance after 54 minutes and Conor Murray was swiftly hauled out, Lee Harvey Oswald-style, as the scapegoat for the relative turgidity of Ireland's previous play.

That was unfair on Murray, who remains Ireland's best shot at a touring Lion scrum-half since John Robbie and Colin Patterson went to South Africa 32 years ago."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/irish-news/hugh-farrelly-reddan-dynamism-can-help-irish-throw-off-the-shackles-3034618.html

Farrelly obviously thinks Kidney will be coaching the lions going on this piece of drivell

It's not that outlandish really. On current form he's miles off but he's a better chance of travelling than reddan

leftleg

Fishooks12 wrote: »

On current form he's miles off but he's a better chance of travelling than reddan

How so?? not looking for an arguement but why are you so quick to dismiss Reddan and at the same time, talk up Murray??

shuffol

Fishooks12 wrote: »

It's not that outlandish really. On current form he's miles off but he's a better chance of travelling than reddan

Dont think many would dispute that, he's got a lot of excellent attributes but as yet isnt as excellent scrumhalf, in 14 months he may well be. At the minute he looks too much like a rookie and whilst there's much to be said for him learning on the job he's just stifling our attacking play too much.

JRant

.ak wrote: »

jm08 wrote: »

Not just the tabloids were saying the pack were delivering very poor ball and that they need to up their intensity at the breakdown - woody, horgan, jackman, quinlan were also saying it on various radio/tv shows.

I'd agree the intensity we see from the pack wasn't there, atleast not how we're used to it when they play for their clubs, but the quality of ball given to Murray on saturday was more than fine.

If the quality was any better he'd be getting the ball handed to him on a red velvet cushion.

The ball he was getting was well presented, frankly it's disengenuous for people to say otherwise. At international level you just don't have those extra seconds to fanny around at the back of a ruck. His biggest problem right now is that he doesn't know what to do with the ball when he gets it. Watching him play this season I've come to the conclusion that Murray forgets he's a SH for spells. The frustrating thing is that he's at his most dangerous, attacking wise, when the game is stretched so why he would want to slow the ball down so much is beyond me.
Just watch the difference between him and Parra this weekend.

leftleg

ok if hes a rookie why is he not playing in the rabo with all the other rookies like madigan, keatley, marshall, d kearney etc.....why he is quite possibly going to start against France in Paris??

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

why should people respond to your obviously tainted questions when everytime they question your errors you simply dig the heels in deeper and identify yet ANOTHER level of "problem" instead of simply admitting that you're wrong?


It's beyond boring.

I've no problem admitting that i didn't count a game that sexton didn't feature in as not getting a game in a row .

now, i'd like to know what the poster was getting at in the first place - how many games should a young player get in a row for their development ?

fitz

jm08 wrote: »

now, i'd like to know what the poster was getting at in the first place - how many games should a young player get in a row for their development ?

Starts? None.
If the player still has development to do, that should be done at provincial level.
Developing players should be introduced to the national side from the bench, unless they've shown at provincial level that they're consistently better performers than the alternatives.

But our national coach is more likely to a) throw someone in at the deep end, regardless of whether they're ready, or b) leave them sitting on the bench without getting any more than a few minutes, than he is to introduce players to international games in a sensible manner.

geekington

I have a lot of time for Murray and its fantastic he is getting an opportunity but I can't quite get my head around DK's thinking. A lot of ppl on threads seem quite happy to give Murray the game time and get him use to playing International Rugby but then why would DK not do this with more players who will be the long term solutions eg. DOC vs. Ryan, Madigan vs. Rog, McFadden vs. D'Arcy etc...Seems a bit hippocritical to me!

Another interesting point is that Madigan has played more pro games than Murray, but everyone says he isn't ready for International rugby (as back-up!) - just wondering what everyones thinking on this (I'm not saying he should be ahead of ROG but just want to get opinions on why we believe certain players should be striaght in to the team and play in to form while others who are equally deserving of a shot are said to be to inexperienced??)

Do not want to start anything provincial, just would like thoughts on when we should be giving these guys game time if not now!!!

jm08

.ak wrote: »

It's different for internationals, as you mentioned a few posts ago.

Not rocket science as you said yourself.

Madigan won't be started because he'll get plenty of opportunity with his province over a very long season. Sexton won't get that opportunity and so should be given the starts with combinations he's used to until he becomes settled in his role with Ireland.

but getting a run (block) of games seems to be important, is it not . would you think it was an issue dropping sexton for the samoa game before starting Nz and aus, particularly as samoa are a very physical side.

i think sexton is fine starting with any sh and is beyond the stage of needing reddan to hold his hand. sexton and murray are the future , so they need to play together when they can.

smurphy29

JM give it up, you posted something as fact that wasn't. Suck it up.

Anyone with eyes in their head could see Murray had a poor game. There were plenty of occasions where he tried to truck it up, or dithered a bit, or went the wrong side, off perfectly decent ball. I'm a fan of his, but he's carrying - not sning, carrying - too often this season and it's a problem he has. I've no doubt he'll come good, because he is technically sound (it's not like O'Leary, who wasalways up against the problem of being a bad passer), but somebody needs to tell him to just pass it.

Clegg

leftleg wrote: »

ok if hes a rookie why is he not playing in the rabo with all the other rookies like madigan, keatley, marshall, d kearney etc.....why he is quite possibly going to start against France in Paris??

Murray plays in a position where we have no real top quality players. TOL is horrendously out of form and Reddan has his brainless moments too. Kidney doesn't rate Boss that much so we're left with Murray who is the best out of a mediocre bunch. I think he has potential to be a good scrum-half but right now he's just an ok to decent player.

I would like to see Marshall in the Ireland set-up. He's impressed quite a but this season and has put in some very good performances. I suppose he isn't in the squad because he doesn't get enough games due to Pienaar being first choice scrummie at Ulster.

Madigan and Keatley are outhalves. Outhalf is a position where we have genuine quality with Sexton and O'Gara. There is no Madigan or Keatley would leapfrog the 2 10's in the Irish squad.

The same holds true for D Kearney. He's a back three player but we already have Trimble,Bowe, R.Kearney,Earls and Fitzgerald(when he's fit).

If Earls were to get injured then Bowe would move to centre and Mc Fadden would move to wing. I know D.Kearney was on the bench against Wales but that was because Earls was unavailable for selection so Mc Fadden moved from the bench to 13. D.Kearney is in very good form but he's definitely 6th choice for the back 3 positions.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

i think sexton is fine starting with any sh and is beyond the stage of needing reddan to hold his hand. sexton and murray are the future , so they need to play together when they can.

Even if they dont seem to play well together; i do agree that they are the future; still doesn't hide the fact they both seem to play awful on the same team for whatever reason.

jm08

smurphy29 wrote: »

JM give it up, you posted something as fact that wasn't. Suck it up.

Anyone with eyes in their head could see Murray had a poor game. There were plenty of occasions where he tried to truck it up, or dithered a bit, or went the wrong side, off perfectly decent ball. I'm a fan of his, but he's carrying - not sning, carrying - too often this season and it's a problem he has. I've no doubt he'll come good, because he is technically sound (it's not like O'Leary, who wasalways up against the problem of being a bad passer), but somebody needs to tell him to just pass it.

Murray did have a poor game , but you can't be discarding players like that for simply not passing the ball enough . murray was playing with an unfamilar backrow and an unfamiliar half back partner - he is 22 years old - and from reading what his academy coaches have said about him, he works on his weaknesses.

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

Even if they dont seem to play well together; i do agree that they are the future; still doesn't hide the fact they both seem to play awful on the same team for whatever reason.

3rd start together maybe ?

.ak

When's the squad announcement? 1pm?

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

I've no problem admitting that i didn't count a game that sexton didn't feature in as not getting a game in a row .

now, i'd like to know what the poster was getting at in the first place - how many games should a young player get in a row for their development ?

that's not what they were getting at. You're being incredibly pointed in your thorough investigation of everything that anyone says that you don't fully agree with.

The point that someone raised was that Murray, a player who should surely be competing for his position (and under strong competition given that we have Murray, Reddan, Boss, Stringer, TO'L all earning caps in the previous 18 months in the position) has had more consecutive games than a player in a position with only one other challenger, and whom he clearly has very defined advantages over.

Murray's advantages over the other scrum half choices aren't as easily documentable, considering we don't really have that many reference points. And in fact, Murray's relative weaknesses compared to the other options' is a serious hindrance to any sort of expansive gameplan. If we are focussed on playing a controlling, conservative game, then Murray and ROG should be the combination. If we're going to play the game that we've seen us being able to compete, we need pace and also some borderline stupid decisions to come off(remind you of someone?)

JRant

leftleg wrote: »

jm08 wrote: »

i think sexton is fine starting with any sh and is beyond the stage of needing reddan to hold his hand. sexton and murray are the future , so they need to play together when they can.

Even if they dont seem to play well together; i do agree that they are the future; still doesn't hide the fact they both seem to play awful on the same team for whatever reason.

Well if your SH doesn't know what he's going to do when he gets the ball how is the OH supposed to.

Rattlehead_ie

.ak wrote: »

When's the squad announcement? 1pm?

1.15pm to be exact.
Honestly, I see Murray as the future SH for Ireland, same way as Sexton is at number 10. Thats not to say that for e.g ROG doesn't have qualities that would make him 1st choice 10 in certain games against certain opposition.

Same with Redden. Honestly against this French team. My choices Redden/Boss.
Redden brings your speed. (whether you chose this at the start or sub)
Boss brings your physicality.

Both are more experience and know how to control their backrow and the backline. Yes Murray wont get experience if he isn't on, but for this French side and the way they play and their very weakness I'd have chosen the other 2 SH.

leftleg

ill probably be crucified for this but why isnt Boss playing or even near the squad??
Heaps of experience, a good eye for a break, strong and physical and a great passer; whats not to like?? opinions please

irishbucsfan

There was plenty of rotation between O'Gara and Sexton when Sexton was breaking through. There is none between Reddan and Murray.

Couple this with the fact that Ireland have only played well since 09 when Reddan and Sexton have played together on the field. A partnership that has never played 2 games in a row for Ireland.

Couple this with the fact O'Mahoney leaped straight into international rugby in a matter of months when Sean O'Brien was stuck behind a massively out of form and unfit Denis Leamy despite SOB being in the middle of an award winning season. Especially dodgy when you consider POM was conveniently omitted from the most recent Wolfhounds team, in case he be shown up by those players that his eventual inclusion would be at the expense of.

Couple THAT with Buckley/Hayes being selected in 3/3 games in the 2010 AIs ahead of a greatly in-form Mike Ross, despite Hayes being clearly past it and Buckley not having a clue what "it" is.


There seems to be something in common between the players who benefit from Declan Kidney's most glaring selection errors.

Trevor Kent

Wot!

http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/rugby_irish/88869/

Brian O’Driscoll returns to training
James Clancy, 29 February 2012 Brian O’Driscoll has made a return to the training field having been confined to rehabilitation and gym work after a shoulder operation last November.

Having played through the pain at the 2011 World Cup in New Zealand, O’Driscoll decided to go under the knife to put an end to the ‘stinger’ injury which has affected him for years.

While it was initially anticipated that the Irish captain would be out of action for the remainder of the season, his recovery to date suggests a possible return in April. While he admitted his skills had suffered from the lengthy absence from the game, he was pleased to be back on the training ground with his Leinster teammates.

“On Monday I went into training and the lads were in good spirits; Leinster have managed two wins and a draw during the Six Nations so far,” O’Driscoll wrote on irishrugby.ie. ”The international contingent also came in and they were very upbeat after the victory against Italy. It’s great to get some pitch time and train with other players rather than the coaches. It did remind me though how far I have to go, even down to skills and relearning defensive systems and calls. And no, I am not getting any special treatment in terms of the physical aspect of things, although there was no contact work during this session.”

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

ill probably be crucified for this but why isnt Boss playing or even near the squad??
Heaps of experience, a good eye for a break, strong and physical and a great passer; whats not to like?? opinions please

I think its a case of the less you see of a player the better they are:pac:

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

I think its a case of the less you see of a player the better they are:pac:

Really Ive seen alot of his performances and I liked alot of them; My question was why he isn't being selected or even at the training ground.

CIARAN_BOYLE

leftleg wrote: »

Really Ive seen alot of his performances and I liked alot of them; My question was why he isn't being selected or even at the training ground.

He started for the WHs so if there is an injury to a scrumhalf he most likely is next to be called up since there are only 2 SHs in the squad.

In Leinster there are two SHs both for different styles a great passer (redden) and a good passer who is more physical and a threat on the break (boss).

Redden got called up as the passer rightly and Murray as the more physical option rightly or wrongly and I can understand why even though I think he needs more experience to help his decision making before he will be right at international level.

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

Really Ive seen alot of his performances and I liked alot of them; My question was why he isn't being selected or even at the training ground.

How did he go against Montpellier in france. can't remember. schmidt seems to prefer him away from home against french teams.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

schmidt seems to prefer him away from home against french teams.

Exactly; why he is he not being used??