Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

.ak

Tox56 wrote: »

I know it is hypothetical, but how many coaches on this planet would have picked this team after the last few matches in this 6 Nations?

Not even EoS.

MungBean

shaungil

Just turning into the Untouchables again. We'll have one great performance in this 6 N's, like we've done against Australia in World Cup England to scupper their Grand Slam it could be sunday but I don't think so.

For me Kidney has not moved with the times he picks players based on what they do when we don't have the ball. More afraid of not losing then trying to win. I worry for Sunday but of course c'mon Ireland

cgpg5

Absolute joke. Ryan did more in the first 5 minutes he came on againts Italy than Doc did all game. And Murray starting again? Laughable. We could get stuffed in this game..

totallegend

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Joke shop selection

While Murray won't be the winning or losing of the game for us I still think it's a slap in the face for Reddan, not to mention D Ryan

Reddan will be well used to it, I have lost track of the number of times he has been dropped or snubbed by Kidney at this stage and I can only conclude there's something more than rugby behind it.

At least DK could argue that Murray is one for the future and Reddan is being kept out by a younger guy who is first choice for his province. What is the logic for Ryan's exclusion? DOC will, of course, "do a job" for us but at what stage does "doing a job" not hack it any more, when there are better guys on the bench or not in the squad at all? Likewise, would have liked to see McFadden start at 12.

One assumes that win or lose, there will have to be changes for the Scotland game. Won't there?

.ak

The only thing to look forward to now is Thomond's review. Then onto the weekend where we'll be schooled by a French team still regrouping. Yay.

Mr.Applepie

.ak wrote: »

Not even EoS.

Yeah but that because he was only version 1. EOS v2.0 is a vastly improved product with some exciting new advancements:

• All new Waffle engine. Can say the same thing using slightly different words indefinitely.
• Increased gameplan effeciency by 33% - now only uses 10 men.
• Increased consistency - Fixed the bug requiring the need to make occasional changes
• Improved Selection Criteria - Now have a luscious mop of black hair ala DOC & Murray will be cause for automatic selection

Cpt_Blackbeard

Disappointed to not see form rewarded but, two contentious decisions is hardly call for the wide scale meltdown we'll surely see.

We've picked our most physical team to try and batter the French for the first 50. We'll then see the dynamism of Cronin, Ryan, POM and Reddan spring from the bench to up the tempo. Whether it's the right way to approach the match we won't know until the weekend but, I will say that starting a game away in Paris with the intentions to play fast and loose is suicide.

When the Scotland/England match rolls around we'll then know if he team is picked to play a certain game plan or if Kidney just picks his first XV for every match.

.ak

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Disappointed to not see form rewarded but, two contentious decisions is hardly call for the wide scale meltdown we'll surely see.

We've picked our most physical team to try and batter the French for the first 50. We'll then see the dynamism of Cronin, Ryan, POM and Reddan spring from the bench to up the tempo. Whether it's the right way to approach the match we won't know until the weekend but, I will say that starting a game away in Paris with the intentions to play fast and loose is suicide.

When the Scotland/England match rolls around we'll then know if he team is picked to play a certain game plan or if Kidney just picks his first XV for every match.

How can we batter the french in the first 50 without quick tempo? We need our quick ball to runners coming deep, smash the French upfront and then go wide at any chance to tire the French legs.

That just won't happen with Murray. He'll take an age to get the ball out, give it to a first reciever at a close distance, pick and go for a few phases, and box kick repeat.

Killser

More dissapointment! EoS got grief for pickin the same team over and over again, now Kidney is at it. DOC - the penalty machine - in again ahead of DR, unreal. ER not on from start is worrying for two reasons. Murray will be good, maybe even a great SH, but needs more field time to learn his craft, his setup and delivery are too slow for International level. Secondly, we have set ourselves out to defend. French will have no bother biding their time waiting for the chance to come then bang, 2-3 tries in the first half and we'll be chasing the game. For once, cant we just have a go - like I always say, what's the attitude, where's the performance?

.ak

Infact, all of this 'bringing subs on to up the tempo' is silly imo. You need to be starting a game with quick tempo, and then bring on the Murrays and ROGs to seal the deal, control the tempo and slow it down to a pace where we can live with for the last 20.

cgpg5

I can live with Murray starting. But Doc? Is Kidney honestly the only man in the country who would start him? As well as keeping Doc out of the Munster team, Ryan has been on smashing form and has made a great impact in every game so far. Its actually laughable. Lets just face it, short of Doc getting injured there's no way Ryan's gonna force his way in with Kidney in charge and its a joke.

Tox56

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Disappointed to not see form rewarded but, two contentious decisions is hardly call for the wide scale meltdown we'll surely see.

We've picked our most physical team to try and batter the French for the first 50. We'll then see the dynamism of Cronin, Ryan, POM and Reddan spring from the bench to up the tempo. Whether it's the right way to approach the match we won't know until the weekend but, I will say that starting a game away in Paris with the intentions to play fast and loose is suicide.

When the Scotland/England match rolls around we'll then know if he team is picked to play a certain game plan or if Kidney just picks his first XV for every match.

He has done that already for the previous 3 matches.

You cannot base a change in selection for Scotland (which is probable you would hope) purely based on his gameplan.

By the time of the Scotland game, we could be out of the championship and have nothing to play for, the players will be tired and need to be rotated to avoid playing 4 games in a row, and it would be the perfect opportunity to try new players and combinations.

It would be coming close to the ridiculous if this same team is picked for the Scotland match, especially if we lose in France.

He has picked the same team 3 times in a row (bar unavailability of 1 player) irrespective of form, and changing for Scotland would not suddenly signify a change in his management style.

irishbucsfan

Screw it je crois we'll win.

Murray will play like a drain but defend like a champion. We'll go into half time within 3 points of em and then Eoin Reddan, the greatest Irish man since Michael Collins killed the queen in 1916, will come on after 55 minutes and we'll lift it past a level the French can ever comprehend. Hell add a certain je ne sais quois to the team and we'll score two tries. (Bowe and Earls)

The in the final 10 minutes we'll be up by 5-7 and on comes the boy wonder Ronan O'Gara to close out the game.

Easy. Croyer.

profitius

The surprising thing is that some people are surprised by the selection! He basically said after the Italian match that the players on first had a part to play in wearing the Italians down. Thats wrong because the whole team did that.

I don't mind seeing Murray start again. He was bad against Italy but hopefully he will speed things up against France. Its just one area he needs to work on.

.ak

Declan Kidney wrote:

"The lads who came on against Italy did exceptionally well and made a hugely positive impact, but I had to weigh that up against the lads who did a lot of the unseen work earlier in the game."

??? Was he even watching the same match? Did the VA team give them the wrong tape to review?

What UNSEEN work did Murray and DOC do exactly? Maybe he meant for the Italians...

Dave6858

leftleg wrote: »

ill probably be crucified for this but why isnt Boss playing or even near the squad??
Heaps of experience, a good eye for a break, strong and physical and a great passer; whats not to like?? opinions please

The reason Kidney doesent select Boss is because of the time when he had that mullet hair style,Declan thought it was aweful.....
Kidney has made his mind up as regards Murray (same as Earls who isnt a centre) so nothing will change in the team selection for the forseeable.

smurphy29

Captain's logic is completely off beam (what's new?). You can't 'batter' the French and expect to win. They have a huge pack with monsters in the tight 5. They will withstand any battering. The only area we've any advantage is perhaps in fitness, so you need to play a fast-paced game to tire them out. This requires a handfu of things, two of which are quick service from 9 and good handling of the ball. With these two things in mind, Reddan and Ryan would improve the team.

Oh, and captain, if we've picked out most physical team, why does the logic only go so far as 4 and 9. Surely McFadden would be starting at 13 and Earls would be part of this miraculous turbo-charging we'll be unleashing after 55 minutes?

Podge_irl

leakyboots wrote: »

Good case for Ryan and Reddan being involved alright but that French backrow would run through Reddan all day. If Murray ups the pace of his game he'll be fine.

I don't recall many, if indeed any, backrows running through Reddan. His defence is fine. Yes, Murray is bigger and more capable of defending in the line as opposed to acting like a sweeper, but that's an utterly stupid reason for picking a scrum half.

If Murray ups the pace of his game. Ffs, how bloody likely is that? His game has been painfully slow ever since he broke into the team.

He has great potential, but he shouldn't be within sight of the team. He should be back playing for Munster. He lost track of where Sexton even was several times against Italy, that's a cardinal sin for a 9.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Tox56 wrote: »

He has done that already for the previous 3 matches.

You cannot base a change in selection for Scotland (which is probable you would hope) purely based on his gameplan.

By the time of the Scotland game, we could be out of the championship and have nothing to play for, the players will be tired and need to be rotated to avoid playing 4 games in a row, and it would be the perfect opportunity to try new players and combinations.

It would be coming close to the ridiculous if this same team is picked for the Scotland match, especially if we lose in France.

He has picked the same team 3 times in a row (bar unavailability of 1 player) irrespective of form, and changing for Scotland would not suddenly signify a change in his management style.

Don't burst my bubble. I need the baseless optimism that things will eventually come good to keep an interest in this current Irish setup.

Every announcement makes me look forward to the return to the HC more and more.

totallegend

.ak wrote: »

??? Was he even watching the same match? Did the VA team give them the wrong tape to review?

What UNSEEN work did Murray and DOC do exactly? Maybe he meant for the Italians...

Ah jaysus, did he really say that? Look, fair enough, DOC might do a lot of work that goes unnoticed, clearing out rucks, getting momentum into the maul and so on, but if your scrum-half is doing unseen work, then he's not doing the scrum-half's job.

Cpt_Blackbeard

I love how we can use the term "unseen work" to justify Heaslip's new role in the side while at the same time using it to criticise DOC/anyone else.

.ak

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I love how we can use the term "unseen work" to justify Heaslip's new role in the side while at the same time using it to criticise DOC/anyone else.

Because the term 'unseen work' can be applied to what goes in the breakdown. You rarely see it on TV, but you can TELL that Heaslip is turning ball and player over, mostly because the ball will come out on OUR SIDE.

If Murray is doing 'UNSEEN WORK' in the ruck, then who's driving the car?!

Fishooks12

The reality is that DOC is actually playing well, just not as well as Ryan

I think Kidney see's O Callaghans ability to hold players up in the tackle as his deciding factor. I don't think that merits his inclusion over Ryan myself but I think that's how Kindey sees it

Hopefully Murray has been working on his decision making in training this week because while he's not as fast as Reddan at the base he was even slower last week because of his hesitancy

totallegend

Fishooks12 wrote: »

The reality is that DOC is actually playing well, just not as well as Ryan

Correct.

shuffol

I wouldnt give a huge amount of credence to kidneys justifications for his selections, I think its fair to say that they're not based on any real logic, Kidney will pick the players he wants to pick and then make arguments for them afterwards. Its easy to give an argument in favour of almost any selection.

Paddy Wallace was our injury cover for our outside backs last season, a guy who covers 12 and 15 at a serious stretch and neither of our starting centers could realistically cover the back 3 if needed. You cant say that there was as much as a grain of logic behind that selection.

leakyboots

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I love how we can use the term "unseen work" to justify Heaslip's new role in the side while at the same time using it to criticise DOC/anyone else.

Been meaning to point this out - some posters using this exact phrase recently to praise Heaslip but as a stick to hit DOC with in the past.

brash_piano

I think one of the reasons Ryan looks so impressive is because you're actually seeing a second row do his job. DOC brings no aggression to the breakdown, rarely clears a ruck, will never win counter-ruck ball, and as for the man-and-ball hit that Ryan made... I think DOC just doesn't read the game quickly enough to react. He spends more of the game with his arms outstretched directing traffic at the side of rucks than he does in any other capacity.

Warburton does unseen work, so does McCaw and to the extent that Heaslip is one of our best competitors at the breakdown so does he.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I love how we can use the term "unseen work" to justify Heaslip's new role in the side while at the same time using it to criticise DOC/anyone else.

Most Turnovers by an Irish player in every game that he's played in the last 12 months bar one.

It's not unseen when it's your job as a back row forward to be in the rucks.

When you're a scrum half, your job does not involve any work that should see you at the bottom of a ruck / inside a maul.

When you're a tighthead prop, your job does not involve defending the wide channel.

It's not "unseen work" when a back row forward is involved, it's "ignored work", "the hard stuff", "the dark arts" etc.

People lazily attribute Heaslip's lack of "visibility" in games these days to the fact that he's "out of form", no he's not - he's doing one of the most important jobs he's been asked to do.

Murray's number 1 priority at every point is to get the ball to his out half as fast as possible. ALL else is ancillary. If your scrum half is doing "unseen work", then he's not your scrum half. He's your 4th back row player.

Bergamasco will tell you how effective a back row playing #9 is if you want to ask him.

.ak

Okay, in fairness maybe I was being a bit harsh on DOC. But he definately didn't do any 'unseen' work in the breakdown that Ryan didn't do when he came on.

Murray is the SH, and generally is in view at ALL times during the match. If he was doing any 'UNSEEN' work it was off the ball. Maybe he was tampering with the Italian's water...