Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

shuffol

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I love how we can use the term "unseen work" to justify Heaslip's new role in the side while at the same time using it to criticise DOC/anyone else.

Heaslip has been in great form all season and is first choice no.8 at his province, he also hasnt had a player replacing him and outperforming him in every game.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Deleted User wrote: »

Most Turnovers by an Irish player in every game that he's played in the last 12 months bar one.

It's not unseen when it's your job as a back row forward to be in the rucks.

When you're a scrum half, your job does not involve any work that should see you at the bottom of a ruck / inside a maul.

When you're a tighthead prop, your job does not involve defending the wide channel.

It's not "unseen work" when a back row forward is involved, it's "ignored work", "the hard stuff", "the dark arts" etc.

People lazily attribute Heaslip's lack of "visibility" in games these days to the fact that he's "out of form", no he's not - he's doing one of the most important jobs he's been asked to do.

Murray's number 1 priority at every point is to get the ball to his out half as fast as possible. ALL else is ancillary. If your scrum half is doing "unseen work", then he's not your scrum half. He's your 4th back row player.

Bergamasco will tell you how effective a back row playing #9 is if you want to ask him.

The bolded part could be equally be used to describe DOC over the last few years.

There are clear double standards when appraising players. Heaslips new found unseen work is used to praise him whereas DOC work in the tight is used to bash him. Correct, yes or no?

Tox56

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The bolded part could be equally be used to describe DOC over the last few years.

There are clear double standards when appraising players. Heaslips new found unseen work is used to praise him whereas DOC work in the tight is used to bash him. Correct, yes or no?

Do you have a replacement for Heaslip who has usurped him at club level and is playing significantly better?

profitius

Tox56 wrote: »

Do you have a replacement for Heaslip who has usurped him at club level and is playing significantly better?

SOB, the best ball carrying backrow in Europe!

Tox56

profitius wrote: »

SOB, the best ball carrying backrow in Europe!

SOB has usurped him at club level and is playing better?

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

We've picked our most physical team to try and batter the French for the first 50. We'll then see the dynamism of Cronin, Ryan, POM and Reddan spring from the bench to up the tempo.

Dont you mean bore the French team for the first 50

Cpt_Blackbeard

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The bolded part could be equally be used to describe DOC over the last few years.

There are clear double standards when appraising players. Heaslips new found unseen work is used to praise him whereas DOC work in the tight is used to bash him. Correct, yes or no?

DOC has been a main turnover player for the last few years?
DOC has been a main lineout operator for the last few years?
DOC has been a strong carryer for the last few years?
DOC has been the Maul leader for the past few years?

I'm afraid you're completely wrong here.

What's unseen for a winger (covering kicks, closing the outside channels, calling defenders across) isn't the "unseen" that a hooker does.

You're comparing chalk and cheese and getting coal.

shuffol

The "DOC does all the hard graft and Ryan comes on to grab the limelight" idea is vey vague and difficult to disprove but I'd have thought that there might be some statistics to lend credence to it. You'd at least expect DOC to have a higher tackle count than Ryan even if statistics can be a bit shady.

In 58 mins against Italy DOC made 3 tackles vs 2 for Ryan in 22 mins. Bare in mind Italy barely had the ball in the last 20 mins.

In 63 mins against Italy DOC made 8 tackles vs Ryans 4 in 17 mins.

I know stats arent everything but when they confirm what you suspect you've seen with your on eyes you cant ignore them.

SlickRic

not starting Donnacha Ryan is, at this stage, quite seriously, a sackable offence in itself.

there is no incentive for anyone to up their game. Ryan has been a level above DOC for a while now, and yet, no sign of a chance at international level.

and in terms of Reddan, while it's not as scandalous an omission from the starting 15, he must still wonder what the fúck he has to do. he gets the ball away quicker from the ruck, and has played with Sexton regularly at all levels, so also has that relationship anyway.

also, the starting 15 pretty much know, if they don't embarrass themselves, they won't be dropped.

the annoying thing is, this isn't baffling, because it's Kidney all over. 99% of us knew there's be no change from Italy. you could even tell from Kidney's post-match that he thought the first 15 had laid the ground work for what was in the end an emphatic win. he believes this plan of his, works. so he's ain't changing it until he absolutely has to.

sham of an international manager at this point.

rrpc

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The bolded part could be equally be used to describe DOC over the last few years.

There are clear double standards when appraising players. Heaslips new found unseen work is used to praise him whereas DOC work in the tight is used to bash him. Correct, yes or no?

You mean; equally applied to DOC in some of his apearances ovee the last few years.

When he does it, he does it well, it's just that he doesn't do it that often or regularly. He certainly couldn't be blamed for what happened against Italy because all our forwards were stuck in rucks trying to protect slow ball.

molloyjh

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Don't burst my bubble. I need the baseless optimism that things will eventually come good to keep an interest in this current Irish setup.

Every announcement makes me look forward to the return to the HC more and more.

I think that's the first thing you've ever said that I can completely relate to.

See what you've done Declan....SEE WHAT YOU'VE DONE!!!! :eek:


Seriously though I'm very worried about the game now. France are due a big performance, as much for themselves and their fans as anything. Last week against Scotland was far from perfect (they had some serious issues) and that won't fly in Paris. They'll be looking to make a statement. And if they counter-ruck the way they did in Murrayfield while Murray is standing staring at the ball admiring it's funny shape we're going to be in serious bother. If we defend as narrowly as we did against the Italians then Clerc and Malzieu and co will make us pay.

We were always up against it, even if Reddan and Ryan had started and given Frances fairly average form. But Kidney is not helping matters at all.

thomond2006

If possible I would like to hibernate through March until the HEC QFs.

marco_polo

A shame that Ryan and Reddan didn't get the nod, although in terms of the game itself though I am not concerned about DOCs inclusion because he is actually playing well currently, and it won't be the winninng or losing of the game, but it is disappointing that Ryans continued excellent form has gone unrewarded.

Definately Reddan should have got the nod on this occasion but hopefully Murray has taken on board what needs to improve during the week and turns in a much better performance.

It is the best available team in 13 out of 15 positions so no point getting overly upset about it, after all there is not even a whimper now about the inclusion of Earls at 13 in stark contrast to with the lead up to the Welsh game.

EDIT: Wow reading this back I sound like the chairman of the DK fan club, even though I would be all for a new coach at the end of the season.

shuffol

SlickRic wrote: »

not starting Donnacha Ryan is, at this stage, quite seriously, a sackable offence in itself.

there is no incentive for anyone to up their game. Ryan has been a level above DOC for a while now, and yet, no sign of a chance at international level.

and in terms of Reddan, while it's not as scandalous an omission from the starting 15, he must still wonder what the fúck he has to do. he gets the ball away quicker from the ruck, and has played with Sexton regularly at all levels, so also has that relationship anyway.

also, the starting 15 pretty much know, if they don't embarrass themselves, they won't be dropped.

the annoying thing is, this isn't baffling, because it's Kidney all over. 99% of us knew there's be no change from Italy. you could even tell from Kidney's post-match that he thought the first 15 had laid the ground work for what was in the end an emphatic win. he believes this plan of his, works. so he's ain't changing it until he absolutely has to.

sham of an international manager at this point.

I think this is the most damaging aspect of Kidneys selection policy, the immunity to being dropped that certain players must feel cant be helping performances either, remember when he said the players would be like men possessed against Wales because they'd have so much to prove. Seems it doesnt work that way.

tolosenc

leakyboots wrote: »

Good case for Ryan and Reddan being involved alright but that French backrow would run through Reddan all day. If Murray ups the pace of his game he'll be fine.

It's more likely that Reddan will grow 6 inches an put on 5 stone between now and kickoff than Murray will play with tempo.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Kate Harsh Lightning wrote: »

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The bolded part could be equally be used to describe DOC over the last few years.

There are clear double standards when appraising players. Heaslips new found unseen work is used to praise him whereas DOC work in the tight is used to bash him. Correct, yes or no?

DOC has been a main turnover player for the last few years?
DOC has been a main lineout operator for the last few years?
DOC has been a strong carryer for the last few years?
DOC has been the Maul leader for the past few years?

I'm afraid you're completely wrong here.

What's unseen for a winger (covering kicks, closing the outside channels, calling defenders across) isn't the "unseen" that a hooker does.

You're comparing chalk and cheese and getting coal.

There are a hell of a lot more similarities between the play expected of a lock and an 8 than between a hooker and a winger. You quite simply picked the most contrasting positions on the pitch to try and rationalize bias and double standards.

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

There are a hell of a lot more similarities between the play expected of a lock and an 8 than between a hooker and a winger. You quite simply picked the most contrasting positions on the pitch to try and rationalize bias and double standards.

Thats because you keep comparing Heaslip to a winger:

Cpt_Blackbeard

leftleg wrote: »

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

There are a hell of a lot more similarities between the play expected of a lock and an 8 than between a hooker and a winger. You quite simply picked the most contrasting positions on the pitch to try and rationalize bias and double standards.

Thats because you keep comparing Heaslip to a winger:

I'm not comparing anybody's form. Just complaining of the double standards that posters here appear to accept and endorse.

irishbucsfan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

leftleg wrote: »

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

There are a hell of a lot more similarities between the play expected of a lock and an 8 than between a hooker and a winger. You quite simply picked the most contrasting positions on the pitch to try and rationalize bias and double standards.

Thats because you keep comparing Heaslip to a winger:

I'm not comparing anybody's form. Just complaining of the double standards that posters here appear to accept and endorse.

I agree with you here el capitano. I know that you agree when people say Ryan should be starting.

Your point is that people are criticising DOC unfairly. I agree with that. I don't think DOC has been poor at all.

I dislike how people feel the need to criticise X in order to compliment Y. DOC is good but Ryan is better. I think we're agreed there.

I am worried that you seem to think Heaslip is playing poorly, that is pretty unforgivable!

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I'm not comparing anybody's form. Just complaining of the double standards that posters here appear to accept and endorse.

"Your Team To Play Australia
Cpt_Blackbeard replied 5 months, 3 weeks ago
The biggest selection issues for the AUS match surround the backrow and 12 jersey imo. Houdini (Yup, I'm starting to call him that now) is in terrible form and is living off his reputation and D'Arcy isn't the first cousin of an international centre any more. Houdini deserves to be dropped but, without Wallace we don't have many options in the backrow. As good as Jennings can be for Leinster"

ok dokey

justsomebloke

thomond2006 wrote: »

If possible I would like to hibernate through March until the HEC QFs.

ah at least wait till after the weekend...











...as there is at least one last weekend of Rabo fixtures before they break up

andrewdcs

tolosenc wrote: »

It's more likely that Reddan will grow 6 inches an put on 5 stone between now and kickoff than Murray will play with tempo.

you can ALWAYS use another tighthead though..... every cloud!

.ak

OH Captain my captain.. Do you honestly think DOC is playing well, even in an 'unseen work' fashion? Honestly?

I think as of last year, since 'that' Toulon game he has been a shadow of his former self.

In fairness why does he need to do anything else? He can't get dropped.

Tox56

marco_polo wrote: »

A shame that Ryan and Reddan didn't get the nod, although in terms of the game itself though I am not concerned about DOCs inclusion because he is actually playing well currently, and it won't be the winninng or losing of the game, but it is disappointing that Ryans continued excellent form has gone unrewarded.

Definately Reddan should have got the nod on this occasion but hopefully Murray has taken on board what needs to improve during the week and turns in a much better performance.

It is the best available team in 13 out of 15 positions so no point getting overly upset about it, after all there is not even a whimper now about the inclusion of Earls at 13 in stark contrast to with the lead up to the Welsh game.

EDIT: Wow reading this back I sound like the chairman of the DK fan club, even though I would be all for a new coach at the end of the season.

I don't mind even though I would prefer EOM, as 1) I have accepted there is absolutley 0 chance of this happening, 2) If Earls plays well, he plays well and all is good, 3) If Earls plays badly it will hopefully open DK's eyes and he will be put back on the wing, and someone else will get a chance.

If Earls is going to have to start, this is the match I would like to see him play.

corny

thomond2006 wrote: »

If possible I would like to hibernate through March until the HEC QFs.

The real sad thing is a couple of years i'd look to hang someone for saying something like that. Now i, shamefully, fully agree.

This is the Kidney legacy folks. He's taken the enjoyment of watching and following our national team away from us.

.ak

Earls did (to use a Kidneyism) 'a job' for us last saturday. I hope he does it again for us on sunday. I don't want to see him lighting the world on fire. Just pass the ball and make your tackles, couple of steps to cut inside would be nice too. That's all... Let's no risk it.

.ak

All joking aside, the provinces; Leinster, Munster and possibly Ulster on their day are BETTER than Ireland with the current setup.

Bizarre isn't it? But if you could clone people, and have players playing themselves, Leinster and Munster would do a number on Ireland.

No other country in the world has better 'clubs' than their national setup (with the exception of France in the form of Toulouse and Clermont. They'd give the national setup a good run for their money.)

leakyboots

corny wrote: »

The real sad thing is a couple of years i'd look to hang someone for saying something like that. Now i, shamefully, fully agree.

This is the Kidney legacy folks. He's taken the enjoyment of watching and following our national team away from us.

Speak for yourself.

shootermacg

Is everyone forgetting the actual reason Reddan isn't starting all games for ireland? The infamous brain-farting and general stupid crap he has a tendency to do.
I like quick ball as much as anyone, Murray was under orders to keep it tight, that's easy to see. Reddan was brought on to up the pace in the final quarter.
Blame Kidney for the game-plan, yous hardly think Kidney is telling Murray to scoop it out and Murray's doing the opposite??? I mean come on! Am I going insane here??!

You guys are more than happy to blame Kidney for Sexton's aimless kicking against Wales.....Too much flavour of the week crap going on!

Now the disclaimer: I don't mind if they play Reddan or Murray but don't confuse a game-plan with the mark they get to carry it out, but personally I think Murray is the better option at least he can play a Boss or a Reddan.

Saying all that I would like to see some fast ball from the start.

Tox56

shootermacg wrote: »

Is everyone forgetting the actual reason Reddan isn't starting all games for ireland? The infamous brain-farting and general stupid crap he has a tendency to do.
I like quick ball as much as anyone, Murray was under orders to keep it tight, that's easy to see. Reddan was brought on to up the pace in the final quarter.
Blame Kidney for the game-plan, yous hardly think Kidney is telling Murray to scoop it out and Murray's doing the opposite??? I mean come on! Am I going insane here??!

You guys are more than happy to blame Kidney for Sexton's aimless kicking against Wales.....Too much flavour of the week crap going on!

Now the disclaimer: I don't mind if they play Reddan or Murray but don't confuse a game-plan with the mark they get to carry it out, but personally I think Murray is the better option at least he can play a Boss or a Reddan.

Saying all that I would like to see some fast ball from the start.

Maybe he was under orders (he shouldn't have been), but Murray was indecisive and his decision making process needs to speed up.

When someone makes a break and we get some front-foot ball, I can assure you DK isn't telling Murray to slow things down and keep it tight, it's just Murray didn't make his decision quick enough.

I'm not saying he can't improve in time.