Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

You'd swear Ireland have not won a game in three years and that the gameplans are identical in each of those wins. You also talk as if the game has changed radically in this space of time.
It isn't rocket science and the game hasn't changed as much as some keep going about. Coaching a tackler and backup for the turnover isn't a toughie and Ireland do manage it, believe it or not. Hence the turnovers won.

We haven't changed our game plan in 3 years; fact

Your right the game hasn't changed in 3 years; we have; were worse

Any chance we can coach the coach?? would that be a toughie??

JustinDee wrote: »

Chin up and enjoy the game.

JustinDee

JustinDee wrote: »

I guess you'll still feel like this regardless of a win on Sunday,

Just on this point Justin, a win on Sunday doesn't change the past. Someone who makes a bad decision 5 out of 6 times still gets one right sometimes.

How many times will people turn around and say "oh, that was that game, now onto the next, I suppose you'll blather on even if X happens", and then after the next, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat...

before they'll finally accept what's staring them in the face. The refusal from some to deal with the obvious is incredibly frustrating.

I reckon quite a few of us really dislike being made out to be "serial detractors" when all we are doing is not being ignorant of what has been happening for years.

JRant

JustinDee wrote: »

leftleg wrote: »

Well it most certainly is now; and that was 3 years ago; why are we still discussing this?? All your reasoning proves is that the other teams have caught on to our tactics and, if anything we've got worse rather than they have got better.

You'd swear Ireland have not won a game in three years and that the gameplans are identical in each of those wins. You also talk as if the game has changed radically in this space of time.
It isn't rocket science and the game hasn't changed as much as some keep going about. Coaching a tackler and backup for the turnover isn't a toughie and Ireland do manage it, believe it or not. Hence the turnovers won.

I guess you'll still feel like this regardless of a win on Sunday, so I won't waste any more time arguing the same point yet again.
Chin up and enjoy the game.

DK has kinda mixed it up a little bit between kicking and running the ball but it seems he's very quick to abandon the run game and revert to type.
I'd also say that we haven't been playing with a SH who's up to the job of getting the backrow or backline moving for close on 3 years now ( apart from the odd brainfart by DK and Reddan gets in) In fact we've been effectively playing 4 backrowers and no SH for a lot of it. Sure how can you win anything with no SH?

JustinDee

leftleg wrote: »

We haven't changed our game plan in 3 years; fact
Your right the game hasn't changed in 3 years; we have; were worse

There hasn't ever been one single gameplan, so I'll politely disagree with you there.
No gameplan is ever applied en masse. Each game is actually run differently. Thats why I described how certain games in a competition you claimed were identical in tactics and strategy, were in fact different.

JustinDee

Deleted User wrote: »

Just on this point Justin, a win on Sunday doesn't change the past. Someone who makes a bad decision 5 out of 6 times still gets one right sometimes . . . etc etc

Its not a popularity contest so this isn't really that much of an issue. Just pointing out how it usually goes on the web forums etc.
Will also do this if I see what I feel is someone erring in discussing tactics or the elements of a particular game.

Enjoy the weekend and see you all at the Women's International tomorrow.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Just on this point Justin, a win on Sunday doesn't change the past. Someone who makes a bad decision 5 out of 6 times still gets one right sometimes . . . etc etc

Its not a popularity contest so this isn't really that much of an issue. Just pointing out how it usually goes on the web forums etc.
Will also do this if I see what I feel is someone erring in discussing tactics or the elements of a particular game.

Enjoy the weekend and see you all at the Women's International tomorrow.

It's not a popularity contest, its a rugby contest. It's a shame we're pretty terrible at both at the moment.

Mr.Applepie

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I only remember the France game from 2009 and that was pretty dominated by kicking from us. Especially TOL.

Well I remember we were absolutely dreadful against England and BOD dragged us over the line. And I was full of nerves for the Wales game so I can't remember it too much. Would you say that kicking for territory was not a regular feature of our game plan in 09?

If I recall Wayne Barnes was at his comical best. Penalised us for the entire 1st half and the Wales for the 2nd half to balance things out

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

There hasn't ever been one single gameplan, so I'll politely disagree with you there.
No gameplan is ever applied en masse. Each game is actually run differently. Thats why I described how certain games in a competition you claimed were identical in tactics and strategy, were in fact different.

I like the way you happily used Kidneys only period of success to show are "differing" game plans; What about 2010 and 2011 and this year when he's had well and true control of the team to put into effect his "different gameplan's".

You know the different game plan he employed against Wales in the 2011 6 Nations game compared to the different game plans he used against Wales in the RWC and this years 6 Nations.

JustinDee

leftleg wrote: »

I like the way you happily used Kidneys only period of success to show are "differing" game plans; What about 2010 and 2011 and this year when he's had well and true control of the team to put into effect his "different gameplan's" ... etc

When the weekend's over, I'll gladly go over any game you wish. Not just 2009.

molloyjh

JustinDee wrote: »

I guess you'll still feel like this regardless of a win on Sunday, so I won't waste any more time arguing the same point yet again.

Look Justin I appreciate your viewpoint and position, I really do. But we can't keep doing this. Before the Welsh game you were saying the very same thing you're saying now. After this I don't doubt we'll see something similar in the next few weeks again. At the end of the day we haven't won any silverware of any description in the last 2 years. The Triple Crown is gone this year and unless we win in Paris (an unlikely event in everyone's eyes I would say) then another 6 Nations championship will have passed us by.

At some point we need to stand up and be definitive over what is considered to be successful and what is not. I can't see 3 years of mediocrity being deemed successful by anyone. Not me, not other posters here, not the players or Kidney or the IRFU. So do we continue to look at the next game in spite of that? And if so for how long? Because we can't keep doing it indefinitely.

Before you go responding I'm sure there's feck all you can really say. I don't expect you to come out and say anything about Kidneys future, it would be inappropriate for you to do so even if you believed it to be true or it was just your personal opinion or whatever. However it wouldn't be inappropriate or out of place to acknowledge that you understand where we're coming from without agreeing with it. I think a lot of people here are just very frustrated at the moment, and a faceless IRFU poster arguing with them is probably just giving them (us) direction to vent that frustration.

We all believe in these players and not seeing them reaching the heights they are capable of is very disappointing. Regardless of the reasons for it I'm sure you'll agree with that statement.

totallegend

JustinDee wrote: »

You'd swear Ireland have not won a game in three years and that the gameplans are identical in each of those wins.

We have won games, yes. If I was a management consultant, I'd say you're focussing on results, not outcomes. No, the gameplan has not been identical, it has regressed. The coach has been unable to see why we have won these games and to build on those strengths for the next game and to build a run of results.

JustinDee wrote: »

I guess you'll still feel like this regardless of a win on Sunday, so I won't waste any more time arguing the same point yet again.
Chin up and enjoy the game.

Missing the point, deliberately and spectacularly.
We have our chins up, it's because we know this group of players can deliver more that we are back on boards day after day debating selection and tactics, it's because we know that there is talent and potential in the squad that we pay our money for tickets to turn up and see the games.

If we were as defeatist as you're implying, would we be forking out our hard-earned cash to watch the team? No. Would we bother posting on boards? No.

Every single one of us will be delighted if Ireland can win on Sunday, we'll be happy if they lose playing decent rugby and showing their potential. There's no shame in being beaten by a better team, we all accept that, we just want to see Ireland do their best. It's a pity you feel the need to criticise us for wanting Ireland to do well.

JustinDee

Relax with the melodramatic superlatives! I'm commenting more on the games and the tactics played in them than anything else. Its okay for anyone to disagree. Seriously.

No need for all the honing in on one little comment I make about what I think some posters will say on Sunday after 5pm. If anything is out of line, report it to mods or ignore it.

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

When the weekend's over, I'll gladly go over any game you wish. Not just 2009.

Fine I choose France v Ireland 2010 in Stade De France. Explain the game plan there whenever you can;

Ill give you a head start; we played John Hayes against the best Front Row in the world. Id just like to know what Kidney was thinking playing an over the hill legend against the most powerful scrummaging unit in the world and how he thought we could possibly win that game or get anything other than a hiding out of it.

I really really felt sorry for the players in that game because they hadn't a chance against that team with the selections Kidney made;

Still i'm sure i'm just being pessimistic because i'm on boards.ie and its probably not that bad at all and that Kidney is really a genius and were all just whinging for the sake of it.

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

Relax with the melodramatic superlatives! I'm commenting more on the games and the tactics played in them than anything else. Its okay for anyone to disagree. Seriously.

No need for all the honing in on one little comment I make about what I think some posters will say on Sunday after 5pm. If anything is out of line, report it to mods or ignore it.

hint; i think you should stop telling people to "relax" and "chin up" after, what feels like scoffing at their points of reasoning which to all intensive purposes, seem quite valid and true;

Just a little bit of advice; do what you will with it though

fitz

JustinDee wrote: »

Relax with the melodramatic superlatives! I'm commenting more on the games and the tactics played in them than anything else. Its okay for anyone to disagree. Seriously.

No need for all the honing in on one little comment I make about what I think some posters will say on Sunday after 5pm. If anything is out of line, report it to mods or ignore it.

Justin, you're obviously passionate about the game, about the team, and a knowledgeable guy, but there's a pattern to some of your posting....

You tend to dismiss perfectly valid criticisms by latching onto specific details. Just because there are specific individual events that can be used to back up an argument against a posters criticism, doesn't make that criticism wrong. You tend to ignore the overall point and hone in on the stuff you can chip away at, rather than constructively engage on the overall reasons for the criticism. But at the same time, given your position, I'm not sure it's fair to expect you to.

The problem is, when you ignore direct questions that arise out of these back and forths, and then seem to make out that everyone else is being a drama queen, you just get people's backs up. It makes you appear evasive and really just contributes to the perception people have of the IRFU/coaching ticket not facing up to the problems we can all see regarding a vastly talented squad not delivering on their potential.

Genuinely, you can be quite insightful on here, and it's great to have perspective from someone within the IRFU, but when you appear to half-engage in the debate on these issues, you don't do yourself any favours.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

Relax with the melodramatic superlatives! I'm commenting more on the games and the tactics played in them than anything else. Its okay for anyone to disagree. Seriously.

No need for all the honing in on one little comment I make about what I think some posters will say on Sunday after 5pm. If anything is out of line, report it to mods or ignore it.

You make it sound as if it's our faults for expecting these players (all of whom are H Cup quarter finalists bar Tommy Bowe), should be playing better than they have since 2009.

Theyve majorly underperformed and then backtracked on any changes that have actually been positive and I am thoroughly fed up of it. As someone who puts a lot of money into the IRFU both directly (as a "patron") and indirectly through support, I am merely voicing my opinion that the team should at least be giving the impression they're playing near their potential, which they haven't done in a long long time.

I appreciate your opinion though and fully agree that there have been tactical shifts on a game to game basis from this team. I just don't think theyve regularly been positive.

CatFromHue

leftleg wrote: »

Fine I choose France v Ireland 2010 in Stade De France. Explain the game plan there whenever you can;

Ill give you a head start; we played John Hayes against the best Front Row in the world. Id just like to know what Kidney was thinking playing an over the hill legend against the most powerful scrummaging unit in the world and how he thought we could possibly win that game or get anything other than a hiding out of it.

I really really felt sorry for the players in that game because they hadn't a chance against that team with the selections Kidney made;

Still i'm sure i'm just being pessimistic because i'm on boards.ie and its probably not that bad at all and that Kidney is really a genius and were all just whinging for the sake of it.

Who else would you have played? Mike Ross wasn't getting mush of a run out with Leinster at the time and Hayes was still doing all right with Munster.

totallegend

JustinDee wrote: »

Relax with the melodramatic superlatives! I'm commenting more on the games and the tactics played in them than anything else. Its okay for anyone to disagree. Seriously.

No need for all the honing in on one little comment I make about what I think some posters will say on Sunday after 5pm. If anything is out of line, report it to mods or ignore it.

If it was only one little comment, that would be ok, but it's not, is it? It's a definite pattern of seizing on criticism of the IRFU and/or the team management.

But look, in the interests of boards harmony, I'll add you to my 'ignore' list and I would be much obliged if you would reciprocate.

COME ON IRELAND.

justsomebloke

leftleg this isn't after hours can you please cut back on the amount of images you use instead of posts

justsomebloke

allow can people please remember to attack the post and not the poster

Podge_irl

CatFromHue wrote: »

Who else would you have played? Mike Ross wasn't getting mush of a run out with Leinster at the time and Hayes was still doing all right with Munster.

I don't see how anyone but Hayes could have played that game tbh. The options just weren't there. Still playing Hayes in November that year was the real issue.

leftleg

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't see how anyone but Hayes could have played that game tbh. The options just weren't there. Still playing Hayes in November that year was the real issue.

Really at that stage id have played Court, iirc when he came on he was very good as well.

He'd also played plenty of games for Leinster from late 2009 to the start pf 2010; id have happily started Court and put Ross on the bench; but hindsight is again great in these areas;

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't see how anyone but Hayes could have played that game tbh. The options just weren't there. Still playing Hayes in November that year was the real issue.

was that not when Healy was capped for the first time and hayes was there to provide some experience?

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

was that not when Healy was capped for the first time and hayes was there to provide some experience?

No that was against Oz

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

was that not when Healy was capped for the first time and hayes was there to provide some experience?

No, though I recall finding that comment amusing as well. The last thing a new loosehead needs is to be playing with a tighthead who can't scrummage, regardless of his experience.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

No, though I recall finding that comment amusing as well. The last thing a new loosehead needs is to be playing with a tighthead who can't scrummage, regardless of his experience.

Hayes was just back from playing in a winning Lions Test for Healy's first cap.

In 2010 in the AIs, Healy started with Buckley who had a decent enough tour to NZ before you go all abusive.

irishbucsfan

How dare someone suggest Hayes and Buckley coukdnt scrummage

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

Hayes was just back from playing in a winning Lions Test for Healy's first cap.

In 2010 in the AIs, Healy started with Buckley who had a decent enough tour to NZ before you go all abusive.

He was unreal against NZ; what a false dawn; still i wouldn't mind having a tape of me tearing the all blacks to pieces to show the kids when i'm older; ah what lost potential

thomond2006

Murray is almost certainly out for the last 2 games, Reddan will start now but who will come onto the bench? Going by the Wolfhounds selection it should be Boss.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Murray is almost certainly out for the last 2 games, Reddan will start now but who will come onto the bench? Going by the Wolfhounds selection it should be Boss.

Marshall/Boss debate in 5, 4, 3, 2....