Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

05-03-2012 8:53am

touts wrote: »

21. Keatley
22. Zebo

:eek:
This season
Madigan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keatley and it's not even close

Zebo is beyond raw, he's nowhere near ready for exposure at this level yet. He'll get there, but Gilroy, O'Halloran, Fitz would all be better options. Dave Kearney has stepped up this season too, but I'd put him in the same "raw" category as Zebo tbh.

People need to stop suggesting POM at 7 btw.

He's had 3 professional games there in his life. (and 2 sub appearances). He's played 6 and 8 since he was a kid.

irishbucsfan · 05-03-2012 9:24am

Kate Harsh Lightning wrote: »

I would like to see a

6. POM
7. Henry
8. Heaslip

19. SOB

against Scotland.

We have no reason to dick around the 6N any longer. We have no mathematical chance of winning it. We lose few/any ranking points if we were actually beaten by Scotland, and though that's not a first choice back row, I still am pretty sure they'd do fine.

Ferris was an animal yesterday, I'm still in the "wrap him in cotton wool" club though. I don't like risking him against the Scots.

Id like to see that backrow play but not against Scotland. Barclay/Rennie/Denton are a top unit and I'd like to see our first choice unit up against them.

I expect Ryan and Reddan to be the only changes for Scotland, possibly POM, possibly Cronin. I also expect DOC to come back into the team to play England. I think the team to play England will be the same, allowing.for injuries.

My team against Scotland would be

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Ross

16. Best
17. Court

Give Cronin a shot to see where he is. His scrummaging is the biggest concern but after a season with Feek it has certainly improved.

4. Ryan
5. O'Connell

18. Tuohy

Ryan has made himself impossible not to select at this point. Tuohy offers a huge threat off the bench to smash a few tired Scots, not sure what DOC would bring from the bench.

6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

19. Henry

As I said I really rate the Scottish back row so I'd like to see us stick to our best combination. Henry deserves a chance to show why he's been the best 7 in Ireland this season.

9. Reddan
10. Sexton

20. Boss
21. O'Gara

I understand people wanting Marshall to get a chance. I think he's the next best option as well. However Kidneys biggest failure thus far has been continually selecting half backs that don't suit each other. Marshall and O'Gara are such a pairing.

11. Trimble
12. Wallace
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

22. McFadden

I think we need a change at 12. I don't think D'Arcy has been too bad, but at this stage of the competition we should be looking at other options. Wallace is the form 12 in the country and should be rewarded for that. I think we have lacked a 2nd creative threat in the backline for years at this stage and that's exactly what Wallace is. Having the 2 5/8ths let's the team play the game at the tempo Reddan is capable of as well. Later on I'd like to see both Sexton and Wallace out for McF and ROG to play some more standard NH style set piece stuff. Something needs to be done to make our backline an attacking threat again.

We have an awful record at home under Kidney. Hopefully they won't add to it.

rrpc · 05-03-2012 9:51am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Id like to see that backrow play but not against Scotland. Barclay/Rennie/Denton are a top unit and I'd like to see our first choice unit up against them.

I expect Ryan and Reddan to be the only changes for Scotland, possibly POM, possibly Cronin. I also expect DOC to come back into the team to play England. I think the team to play England will be the same, allowing.for injuries.

My team against Scotland would be

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Ross

16. Best
17. Court

Give Cronin a shot to see where he is. His scrummaging is the biggest concern but after a season with Feek it has certainly improved.

4. Ryan
5. O'Connell

18. Tuohy

Ryan has made himself impossible not to select at this point. Tuohy offers a huge threat off the bench to smash a few tired Scots, not sure what DOC would bring from the bench.

6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

19. Henry

As I said I really rate the Scottish back row so I'd like to see us stick to our best combination. Henry deserves a chance to show why he's been the best 7 in Ireland this season.

9. Reddan
10. Sexton

20. Boss
21. O'Gara

I understand people wanting Marshall to get a chance. I think he's the next best option as well. However Kidneys biggest failure thus far has been continually selecting half backs that don't suit each other. Marshall and O'Gara are such a pairing.

11. Trimble
12. Wallace
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

22. McFadden

I think we need a change at 12. I don't think D'Arcy has been too bad, but at this stage of the competition we should be looking at other options. Wallace is the form 12 in the country and should be rewarded for that. I think we have lacked a 2nd creative threat in the backline for years at this stage and that's exactly what Wallace is. Having the 2 5/8ths let's the team play the game at the tempo Reddan is capable of as well. Later on I'd like to see both Sexton and Wallace out for McF and ROG to play some more standard NH style set piece stuff. Something needs to be done to make our backline an attacking threat again.

We have an awful record at home under Kidney. Hopefully they won't add to it.

Not a bad selection at all and your reasoning is good. However (there's always a however

) I still have problems with Earls at centre. From his own point of view, he just doesn't present the same attackinig threat that he does on the wing and although his defense is better than it has been in previous appearances in that role, it's still not 100%.

Personally, I don't like the idea of converting wings to centres for the following reasons:

Wings tend to be the last receiver in attack and as a result don't always look for the offload, something that's absolutely essential in the centre. Similarly in defense, they generally are only faced with one on ones and are a second line rather than a first line of defense.
Instinctively they are attacking players and defense is secondary. Earls trying to fly hack the ball yesterday was a typical winger's reaction; looking to turn the situation to advantage.

Shaggy is another winger who's been put into the centre on occasion and has displayed similar traits to those outlined above. Tommy Bowe has also been put in the centre for Ospreys, but that hasn't really worked either.

Leinster7 · 05-03-2012 10:57am

SOB came of age as a 7 against France. I didn't think he had it in him but he was our best player along with Sexton and Bowe until he got subbed off. I think we should continue with him at 7. He has shown a good capacity to learn and now perform the role at world class level. Makes me very happy indeed.

I would still like to see him pop up in the wider channels once or twice and take on the opposition centres, perhaps off lineout ball

touts · 05-03-2012 11:06am

Deleted User wrote: »

:eek:
This season
Madigan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keatley and it's not even close

Madigan???? Are you serious. Even McFaddan is ahead of him at this stage for kicking duties in Leinster when he is available. Keatley will be the starting outhalf in Munster in a few months when ROG retires. Madigan is a decent squad player but he won't be in an asses roar of the Leinster first 22 on HEC days.

dtpc191991 · 05-03-2012 11:09am

My team to play Scotland

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Touhy (Why not give O'Connel a rest and let a young second row have a shot)
6. Ferris (Captain)
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. D. Kearney (Has been excellent for Leinster).
12. Fitzgerald (We know he can play here so lets see how he does).
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. R.Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. O'Connell
19. O'Malley (Come on at 50 for Heaslip moving O'Brien t0 8)
20. P.Marshall (deserves his shot. With Murray injured should be the logical bench option to bring into the squad).
21. O'Gara
22. McFadden

If Felix Jones continues playing the way he did the other night I would have him at 22 ahead of McFadden.

touts · 05-03-2012 11:11am

questforfit wrote: »

I think the Murray experiment has to end.

Hes had an unprecedented number of chances and has failed to surpass 'decent'.

The "Murray experiment" still has a few years to run if given the same timeline as is being applied to the "Sexton experiment". Sexton is only starting to tick decent now and is still substantially sub-par in game management as demonstrated yesterday when the French ran the table and he couldn't even find a proper touch.

rrpc · 05-03-2012 11:13am

touts wrote: »

Madigan???? Are you serious. Even McFaddan is ahead of him at this stage for kicking duties in Leinster when he is available. Keatley will be the starting outhalf in Munster in a few months when ROG retires. Madigan is a decent squad player but he won't be in an asses roar of the Leinster first 22 on HEC days.

Kicking, kicking, kicking...

It's not the 10s only job and as far as the French go it's not their job at all...

McFadden kicks because he has the bigger boot, Madigan is pretty good with the shorter stuff (been that way since he played U20s where McKinley took the long kicks from 12), but since McF is with Ireland, Madigan's been doing most of the kicking duties and quite well too.

As for ROG retiring in a few months, just saw a squadron of pigs flying by in perfect V formation...

irishbucsfan · 05-03-2012 11:14am

touts wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

:eek:
This season
Madigan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keatley and it's not even close

Madigan???? Are you serious. Even McFaddan is ahead of him at this stage for kicking duties in Leinster when he is available. Keatley will be the starting outhalf in Munster in a few months when ROG retires. Madigan is a decent squad player but he won't be in an asses roar of the Leinster first 22 on HEC days.

You don't have a clue about Madigan!

1) He has shown he can kick. Watching rugby regularly may not be something you do, but you may be interested in checking out who was kicking for Leinster last weekend.

2) Madigan played in nearly every H Cup game for Leinster this season and started one. He played excellently throughout. Keatley is the one who can't get near the H Cup side, despite being behind a 35 year old.

Madigan is a far more talented player and a much better prospect as well. Keatley on the other hand has been very poor recently.

touts · 05-03-2012 11:14am

dtpc191991 wrote: »

My team to play Scotland

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Touhy (Why not give O'Connel a rest and let a young second row have a shot)
6. Ferris (Captain)
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. D. Kearney (Has been excellent for Leinster).
12. Fitzgerald (We know he can play here so lets see how he does).
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. R.Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. O'Connell
19. O'Malley (Come on at 50 for Heaslip moving O'Brien t0 8)
20. P.Marshall (deserves his shot. With Murray injured should be the logical bench option to bring into the squad).
21. O'Gara
22. McFadden

If Felix Jones continues playing the way he did the other night I would have him at 22 ahead of McFadden.

Jones won't get in at Centre/Wing. McFaddan covers those slots. Jones will suffer with Kearney and a fit again Fitzgerald ahead of him at Full back. But Munster may be happy to see him not off carrying tackle bags 6 months of the year...

Leinster7 · 05-03-2012 11:17am

Madigan has made himself 2nd choice 10 at Leinster and if Sexto is injured he will start. I expect him to start taking over from McFadden also on kicking duties. This is an area he has been working very hard on and is improving quickly. Madigan also has a good tackle and a superb running game on him, top try scorer in the Magners League I believe. Keatly looks under-cooked, no doubt from being in the shadow of the great me feiner.

touts · 05-03-2012 11:18am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You don't have a clue about Madigan!

1) He has shown he can kick. Watching rugby regularly may not be something you do, but you may be interested in checking out who was kicking for Leinster last weekend.

2) Madigan played in nearly every H Cup game for Leinster this season and started one. He played excellently throughout. Keatley is the one who can't get near the H Cup side, despite being behind a 35 year old.

Madigan is a far more talented player and a much better prospect as well. Keatley on the other hand has been very poor recently.

Madigan is kicking now because no one else was available but when available both Sexton and McFaddan have been ahead of him at outhalf. He's a decent prospect but Sexton, ROG, McFaddan Keatley, Humphries and arguably Paddy Wallace are ahead of him as Irish outhalf. Saying he should get a start is like a Munster fan saying Deasy deserves a chance at outhalf against scotland. Tinted glasses rubbish!!

05-03-2012 11:19am

touts wrote: »

Madigan???? Are you serious. Even McFaddan is ahead of him at this stage for kicking duties in Leinster when he is available. Keatley will be the starting outhalf in Munster in a few months when ROG retires. Madigan is a decent squad player but he won't be in an asses roar of the Leinster first 22 on HEC days.

fantastic.

Just fantastic.

If we were to compare Keatley and Madigan's performances on the weekend just gone, and their HEC appearances this season, and their try scoring records, and their win rates when they play...

I don't think there's much point talking to you on this, as you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Leinster7 · 05-03-2012 11:21am

touts wrote: »

Madigan is kicking now because no one else was available but when available both Sexton and McFaddan have been ahead of him at outhalf. He's a decent prospect but Sexton, ROG, McFaddan Keatley, Humphries and arguably Paddy Wallace are ahead of him as Irish outhalf. Saying he should get a start is like a Munster fan saying Deasy deserves a chance at outhalf against scotland. Tinted glasses rubbish!!

You are right. There is no way another running 10 would start in a Declan Kidney team

05-03-2012 11:21am

touts wrote: »

Madigan is kicking now because no one else was available but when available both Sexton and McFaddan have been ahead of him at outhalf. He's a decent prospect but Sexton, ROG, McFaddan Keatley, Humphries and arguably Paddy Wallace are ahead of him as Irish outhalf. Saying he should get a start is like a Munster fan saying Deasy deserves a chance at outhalf against scotland. Tinted glasses rubbish!!

you suggested Keatley bench.

I suggested Madigan would be infinitely more deserving of that spot given the season we're having.

"Tinted" = too funny.

McFadden has literally never played for Leinster at out half btw

irishbucsfan · 05-03-2012 11:23am

touts wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You don't have a clue about Madigan!

1) He has shown he can kick. Watching rugby regularly may not be something you do, but you may be interested in checking out who was kicking for Leinster last weekend.

2) Madigan played in nearly every H Cup game for Leinster this season and started one. He played excellently throughout. Keatley is the one who can't get near the H Cup side, despite being behind a 35 year old.

Madigan is a far more talented player and a much better prospect as well. Keatley on the other hand has been very poor recently.

Madigan is kicking now because no one else was available but when available both Sexton and McFaddan have been ahead of him at outhalf. He's a decent prospect but Sexton, ROG, McFaddan Keatley, Humphries and arguably Paddy Wallace are ahead of him as Irish outhalf. Saying he should get a start is like a Munster fan saying Deasy deserves a chance at outhalf against scotland. Tinted glasses rubbish!!

How many minutes did Keatley manage in the H Cup for Munster this season? 17?

Whereas Madigan is playing more, playing better and top try scorer in the ML

Laughable. I suspect you haven't seen much of Madigan.

Leinster7 · 05-03-2012 11:23am

Deleted User wrote: »

you suggested Keatley bench.

I suggested Madigan would be infinitely more deserving of that spot given the season we're having.

"Tinted" = too funny.

McFadden has literally never played for Leinster at out half btw

Emmet, best we can hope for is a management change so that those Irish players in form are given the opportunities they deserve, rather than Declan Kidney continuing to pick out of form Munster players.

touts · 05-03-2012 11:26am

rrpc wrote: »

Kicking, kicking, kicking...

It's not the 10s only job and as far as the French go it's not their job at all...

You must have missed the memo. Sexton finally learned to kick straight so the official Leinster fans line is to start to see kicking as important again. Who on the Irish team would you suggest kicks if not the outhalf. Just because Para can do it for France do you think Reddan/Murray/Boss should start trying to knock a few over from the halfway line? Kicking outhalfs are the norm not the exception and where they don't tend to kick it is where a serious alternative exists. Ireland struggle to get one player on the pitch who can kick the ball straight.

Kicks win games. Tries by how much!

Fishooks12 · 05-03-2012 11:26am

touts wrote: »

Madigan???? Are you serious. Even McFaddan is ahead of him at this stage for kicking duties in Leinster when he is available. Keatley will be the starting outhalf in Munster in a few months when ROG retires. Madigan is a decent squad player but he won't be in an asses roar of the Leinster first 22 on HEC days.

That's funny considering he's 21 for Leinster in every HC group game, started one game and came on earlier and more frequently than Keatley

Not to mention he's top ML try scorer

Not to mention he's playing ten times better than Keatley

touts · 05-03-2012 11:27am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How many minutes did Keatley manage in the H Cup for Munster this season? 17?

Whereas Madigan is playing more, playing better and top try scorer in the ML

Laughable. I suspect you haven't seen much of Madigan.

I've seen enough of him to know he is not an international kicker and never will be.

Fishooks12 · 05-03-2012 11:29am

touts wrote: »

I've seen enough of him to know he is not an international kicker and never will be.

When have you seen him kick? Name a few examples of a game where he's missed important kicks for Leinster

badbeatcentral · 05-03-2012 11:33am

MADIGAN IS GODIGAN

Mr.Applepie · 05-03-2012 11:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

you suggested Keatley bench.

I suggested Madigan would be infinitely more deserving of that spot given the season we're having.

"Tinted" = too funny.

McFadden has literally never played for Leinster at out half btw

You are arguing with someone who believes the only job an OH has is to kick. No doubt his model player is Dan Parks.

Personally I don't think we have a 3rd OH who could step up to internationals yet.

Madigan needs better game management and I would like to see him placekick more.
Keatley's whole game needs to improve. He's decent at most things but not very good at anything.
Humphries can't defend and our defence would have to completely reshuffle to acommodate him.
Wallace is a 12!

The best of the bunch is Madigan though

desertcircus · 05-03-2012 11:37am

touts wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How many minutes did Keatley manage in the H Cup for Munster this season? 17?

Whereas Madigan is playing more, playing better and top try scorer in the ML

Laughable. I suspect you haven't seen much of Madigan.

I've seen enough of him to know he is not an international kicker and never will be.

Clearly not, given that you didn't even know he'd been in every HC matchday squad...

Leinster7 · 05-03-2012 11:40am

touts wrote: »

I've seen enough of him to know he is not an international kicker and never will be.

I seriously doubted SOB could play big games at 7 but yesterday he was World Class and outclassed the French back-row along with Heaslip and Ferris for much of the game so NEVER SAY NEVER (queue 007 music)

Fireball07 · 05-03-2012 11:41am

touts wrote: »

Jones won't get in at Centre/Wing. McFaddan covers those slots. Jones will suffer with Kearney and a fit again Fitzgerald ahead of him at Full back. But Munster may be happy to see him not off carrying tackle bags 6 months of the year...

I don't think Fitz is ahead of Jones as Irish full-back. He didn't play well there last time.

Kearney has an unassailable hold on the jersey at the moment, but I'd say Jones is definitely next in line, then probably Earls.

I agree that McFadden will always be a better option on the bench because of his versatility. Though Luke Fitz might be an even better option if he comes back into the squad.

justsomebloke · 05-03-2012 11:42am

Ok lads the same warning from the match thread is being carried over to here. Any more inter pro crap and there will be infractions or bans. If you think someone is trolling ignore them.

05-03-2012 11:49am

Leinster7 wrote: »

Emmet, best we can hope for is a management change so that those Irish players in form are given the opportunities they deserve, rather than Declan Kidney continuing to pick out of form Munster players.

Declan Kidney is contracted for another 18months. There will be no management change unless we drop out of the rankings altogether.

I'd be very happy for him to change his motus operandi and start being a progressive and not regressive manager, though I don't think that he has shown the ability to do so, if he were to change in the morning and start playing the right game, and picking the right team, all we could do is be supportive of him for making the right changes.

dtpc191991 · 05-03-2012 11:55am

touts wrote: »

Jones won't get in at Centre/Wing. McFaddan covers those slots. Jones will suffer with Kearney and a fit again Fitzgerald ahead of him at Full back. But Munster may be happy to see him not off carrying tackle bags 6 months of the year...

That is a fair point. However I feel that Jones is a much better fullback option than Luke Fitzgerald by miles. . I think Jones could cover probably cover Wing as a fullback he already has the defensive skills and the skills in the air needed plus he has bags of pace. Bowe can cover Centre remember. Jones looks like he will be a much better player than McFadden if he can get a good run without injury.

Leinster7 · 05-03-2012 12:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Declan Kidney is contracted for another 18months. There will be no management change unless we drop out of the rankings altogether.

I'd be very happy for him to change his motus operandi and start being a progressive and not regressive manager, though I don't think that he has shown the ability to do so, if he were to change in the morning and start playing the right game, and picking the right team, all we could do is be supportive of him for making the right changes.

He's had 3 years since 09 and it hasn't changed. Yesterdays first half was encouraging then it was back to the old Ireland 2nd half. If Chelsea can fire AVB for under-performing so can the IRFU ....come on already!!!

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