Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Leinster7

Leinster7 wrote: »

He's had 3 years since 09 and it hasn't changed. Yesterdays first half was encouraging then it was back to the old Ireland 2nd half. If Chelsea can fire AVB for under-performing so can the IRFU....come on already!!!

I know the stats, I am not a Kidney supporter.

However, if he changes, then I can change my opinion of him.

As Nigel Owens says "This is not Soccer!"

Tox56

Deleted User wrote: »

I know the stats, I am not a Kidney supporter.

However, if he changes, then I can change my opinion of him.

As Nigel Owens says "This is not Soccer!"

That's the problem, we win a big game and there will be "I told you so's" coming out of the woodwork, and suddenly DK is a perfect manager again.

We know the routine of one big performance every tournament, and it is more than possible we will pull out a big performance against England, but we have to back up these performances for just normal matches, not just when the team "is up for it".

I too would be willing to change my mind, but these "big performances" are the level we are perfectly capable of playing to every game, and they need to start getting backed up with sustained progress.

Leinster7

Tox56 wrote: »

That's the problem, we win a big game and there will be "I told you so's" coming out of the woodwork, and suddenly DK is a perfect manager again.

We know the routine of one big performance every tournament, and it is more than possible we will pull out a big performance against England, but we have to back up these performances for just normal matches, not just when the team "is up for it".

I too would be willing to change my mind, but these "big performances" are the level we are perfectly capable of playing to every game, and they need to start getting backed up with sustained progress.

like in both halves of the game

shuffol

Wouldnt mind seeing a change on the left wing for the Scots game, Trimbles been ok but we've a lot of talented wingers and it'd be good to see one of them get a shot and freshen things up. Fitz wont be up to speed so that rules him out, D.Kearney looks to be next in line but plays all his rugby on the right wing so I'd say that rules him out, same with Gilroy, that leaves TOH and Zebo, TOH is a better all round player in my book but plays for Connacht so that'd probably rule him out, that just leaves Zebo, wouldnt surprise me to see him brought in at all. I'd expect Mcfadden to keep his utility back bench spot or else start at 12.

justsomebloke

shuffol wrote: »

Wouldnt mind seeing a change on the left wing for the Scots game, Trimbles been ok but we've a lot of talented wingers and it'd be good to see one of them get a shot and freshen things up. Fitz wont be up to speed so that rules him out, D.Kearney looks to be next in line but plays all his rugby on the right wing so I'd say that rules him out, same with Gilroy, that leaves TOH and Zebo, TOH is a better all round player in my book but plays for Connacht so that'd probably rule him out, that just leaves Zebo, wouldnt surprise me to see him brought in at all. I'd expect Mcfadden to keep his utility back bench spot or else start at 12.

If zebo is the only other option I'd quite happily stay with Trimble. Zebo is no were near being 6 nations ready.

kevohmsford

I thought Murray had a decent game yesterday, way better performance than the Italy game. In fairness if you come away from Paris with a draw and are disappointed you know you have done well. Conditions were brutal towards the end aswell.

Noopti

So with the Championship out the window, Kidney must start giving other players a chance. I would love there to be a few changes for Scotland, namely:

Ryan for DOC
Reddan for Murray (if he is unfit, if he is fit then start him. Marshall to the bench if Reddan starts)
McFadden for D'Arcy

Plus a switch-up in the backrow:
Heaslip to bench, SOB to 8 and POM to 7


Scotland will be tough but if Kidney isn't willing to try out some new things against them at home, with the Championship out of reach, then I give up.

phog

justsomebloke wrote: »

If zebo is the only other option I'd quite happily stay with Trimble. Zebo is no were near being 6 nations ready.

I'm a huge fan of Zebo and I'd love to see him get a cap but I think it's too early for him.

BTW, all the talk of dropping Trimble, there was outrage here during the W/cup because he wasn't getting his place, how times change.

Tox56

phog wrote: »

I'm a huge fan of Zebo and I'd love to see him get a cap but I think it's too early for him.

BTW, all the talk of dropping Trimble, there was outrage here during the W/cup because he wasn't getting his place, how times change.

He was in fantastic form and he was omitted, and he has been in excellent form for Ulster and was rightly selected.

He had a poor game no doubt, but that happens. I certainly wouldn't be advocating Trimble be dropped based on yesterday.

CIARAN_BOYLE

touts wrote: »

Madigan is kicking now because no one else was available but when available both Sexton and McFaddan have been ahead of him at outhalf. He's a decent prospect but Sexton, ROG, McFaddan Keatley, Humphries and arguably Paddy Wallace are ahead of him as Irish outhalf. Saying he should get a start is like a Munster fan saying Deasy deserves a chance at outhalf against scotland. Tinted glasses rubbish!!

McFadden hasn't played OH in his life. Madigan has more time played at outhalf in HEC games than Deasy Keatley and McFadden between them.

You are mixing up kicking and playing OH which are different roles. McFadden is ahead of of Madigan as a kicker because he is a damn good kicker with the best kicking percentage of any goalkicker in the rabodirect pro12. Better than ROG or Sexton who are second and third.

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/statzone/rhino_golden_boot.php

We are not talking about a callow youth with a handful of provincial caps but rather a quality performer with more than 40 Leinster caps.

Noopti

touts wrote: »

Madigan is kicking now because no one else was available but when available both Sexton and McFaddan have been ahead of him at outhalf. He's a decent prospect but Sexton, ROG, McFaddan Keatley, Humphries and arguably Paddy Wallace are ahead of him as Irish outhalf. Saying he should get a start is like a Munster fan saying Deasy deserves a chance at outhalf against scotland. Tinted glasses rubbish!!

Sweet mother of devine mercy, where to start. :rolleyes:

If you think OH is all about kicking your goals then you need to seriously start reading up on the sport. Who took the kicks for France at the weekend?

mr socco

phog wrote: »

I'm a huge fan of Zebo and I'd love to see him get a cap but I think it's too early for him.

BTW, all the talk of dropping Trimble, there was outrage here during the W/cup because he wasn't getting his place, how times change.

People accuse Kidney of being conservative but this conservatism is endemic in a lot of fans as well. Why on earth not give Zebo a go. What age are George North, Toby Faletau, Scott Williams???? Has their introduction had a negative or positive impact on Wales?? We are out of the tournament anyway.

There's this mythical 'Zebo is not ready yet'. Give him a go and we will see. I really don't see all these flaws in his game that others see. He's fast, good kicker, great counter attacker and good hands. Trimble would not be DROPPED anyway..

He's just too flashy for Irish rugby isn't he?? Flashy=mythical flaws to his game. I'm from Donegal by the way so no provincial bias.

Leinster7

mr socco wrote: »

People accuse Kidney of being conservative but this conservatism is endemic in a lot of fans as well. Why on earth not give Zebo a go. What age are George North, Toby Faletau, Scott Williams???? Has their introduction had a negative or positive impact on Wales?? We are out of the tournament anyway.

There's this mythical 'Zebo is not ready yet'. Give him a go and we will see. I really don't see all these flaws in his game that others see. He's fast, good kicker, great counter attacker and good hands. Trimble would not be DROPPED anyway..

He's just too flashy for Irish rugby isn't he?? Flashy=mythical flaws to his game. I'm from Donegal by the way so no provincial bias.

Zebo, D.Kearney, EOM, McFadden at 12... all should've played vs Italy but not with DK around..

JustinDee

Leinster7 wrote: »

Zebo, D.Kearney, EOM, McFadden at 12... all should've played vs Italy but not with DK around..

In a year when wins determine seedings for RWC 2015, I highly doubt anybody would have thrown a backline like that together against Italy.

Tox56

mr socco wrote: »

People accuse Kidney of being conservative but this conservatism is endemic in a lot of fans as well. Why on earth not give Zebo a go. What age are George North, Toby Faletau, Scott Williams???? Has their introduction had a negative or positive impact on Wales?? We are out of the tournament anyway.

There's this mythical 'Zebo is not ready yet'. Give him a go and we will see. I really don't see all these flaws in his game that others see. He's fast, good kicker, great counter attacker and good hands. Trimble would not be DROPPED anyway..

He's just too flashy for Irish rugby isn't he?? Flashy=mythical flaws to his game. I'm from Donegal by the way so no provincial bias.

Whatever about Zebo, D Kearney is more ready, and should be ahead of Zebo if someone is to get the chance.

GerM

mr socco wrote: »

There's this mythical 'Zebo is not ready yet'. Give him a go and we will see. I really don't see all these flaws in his game that others see. He's fast, good kicker, great counter attacker and good hands. Trimble would not be DROPPED anyway..

He was given a chance for the Wolfhounds and his weaknesses were clearly highlighted. He isn't ready and there are more complete options available. There's nothing mythical about the flaws in his game just as there's nothing mythical about the flaws in anyone's game. His awareness is poor and he's positionally suspect.

Fantastic prospect but this is the 6N. Zebo will get his opportunity. Scotland have beaten us 2 from the last 3 times we've played them. We're not going to be handing out caps. Any changes to the side will come from within the same 22 that lined out yesterday.

Tox56

GerM wrote: »

He was given a chance for the Wolfhounds and his weaknesses were clearly highlighted. He isn't ready and there are more complete options available. There's nothing mythical about the flaws in his game just as there's nothing mythical about the flaws in anyone's game. His awareness is poor and he's positionally suspect.

Fantastic prospect but this is the 6N. Zebo will get his opportunity. Scotland have beaten us 2 from the last 3 times we've played them. We're not going to be handing out caps. Any changes to the side will come from within the same 22 that lined out yesterday.

So in essence, we will go through an entire 6 Nations with the exactly same 22? A 22 most here deemed flawed from the time of the announcement? This has to be an opportunity, we are out of the tournament.

marco_polo

Leinster7 wrote: »

Zebo, D.Kearney, EOM, McFadden at 12... all should've played vs Italy but not with DK around..

I doubt any coach would send a team to Paris with the first choice players having had no gametime for three weeks.

phog

Leinster7 wrote: »

Zebo, D.Kearney, EOM, McFadden at 12... all should've played vs Italy but not with DK around..

Did you miss out on the postponed game and the need for gametime for the 1st 15?

Podge_irl

mr socco wrote: »

People accuse Kidney of being conservative but this conservatism is endemic in a lot of fans as well. Why on earth not give Zebo a go. What age are George North, Toby Faletau, Scott Williams???? Has their introduction had a negative or positive impact on Wales?? We are out of the tournament anyway.

There's this mythical 'Zebo is not ready yet'. Give him a go and we will see. I really don't see all these flaws in his game that others see. He's fast, good kicker, great counter attacker and good hands. Trimble would not be DROPPED anyway..

He's just too flashy for Irish rugby isn't he?? Flashy=mythical flaws to his game. I'm from Donegal by the way so no provincial bias.

My concerns over Zebo have nothing to do with his age (I don't even know how old he is). He still has some serious flaws in his game that need to be ironed out. North is and was a better player.

mr socco

GerM wrote: »

He was given a chance for the Wolfhounds and his weaknesses were clearly highlighted. He isn't ready and there are more complete options available. There's nothing mythical about the flaws in his game just as there's nothing mythical about the flaws in anyone's game. His awareness is poor and he's positionally suspect.

Fantastic prospect but this is the 6N. Zebo will get his opportunity. Scotland have beaten us 2 from the last 3 times we've played them. We're not going to be handing out caps. Any changes to the side will come from within the same 22 that lined out yesterday.

What happened all those years ago when Gatland gave debuts to 5 players against Scotland in the Six Nations?? Zebo's awareness is poor?? Looks like the best part of his game to me. Hardly any other Irish backs pick the lines/have his timing. Surely that takes 'awareness'?

He made one poor decision in the Wolfhounds game. Big deal. Pack was brutal in that match so didn't get any other quality ball.

Tox56

mr socco wrote: »

What happened all those years ago when Gatland gave debuts to 5 players against Scotland in the Six Nations?? Zebo's awareness is poor?? Looks like the best part of his game to me. Hardly any other Irish backs pick the lines/have his timing. Surely that takes 'awareness'?

He made one poor decision in the Wolfhounds game. Big deal. Pack was brutal in that match so didn't get any other quality ball.

I think that explains a lot.

GerM

mr socco wrote: »

What happened all those years ago when Gatland gave debuts to 5 players against Scotland in the Six Nations?? Zebo's awareness is poor?? Looks like the best part of his game to me. Hardly any other Irish backs pick the lines/have his timing. Surely that takes 'awareness'?

He made one poor decision in the Wolfhounds game. Big deal. Pack was brutal in that match so didn't get any other quality ball.

Then you need to watch him more. He gets caught ball watching. He doesn't pick up on those running off him. He gets caught out of position. He's got a huge amount of talent and his day will come. It's not today. Calls for his inclusion are completely knee-jerk to a couple of performances. We have plenty of back three players who are young and proven. Zebo will get his shot in the autumn if he keeps performing and hopefully he does. He'll be a great player if he works at his weaknesses.

That day against Scotland was a game where there was absolutely nothing to lose. We had been thumped the week before out of sight. The players that came in were significantly more experienced and proven than Zebo also.

boynesider

If there was one change I would like to see in the Irish backline, it would be McFadden for D'Arcy with one of Zebo or D Kearney on the bench

JustinDee

mr socco wrote: »

Zebo's awareness is poor?? Looks like the best part of his game to me. Hardly any other Irish backs pick the lines/have his timing. Surely that takes 'awareness'?

He made one poor decision in the Wolfhounds game. Big deal. Pack was brutal in that match so didn't get any other quality ball.

What they mean is that there are other facets in his game that still are in development ahead of any representitive level.
For example, someone mentioned "ball watching". A player can get sucked into rucks in defence rather than manning their own slot in the line. This is particularly evident when the blindside is of around two-players-width. This, Zebo has fallen into on a number of occasions at both provincial level and when playing the reserve international side. He's still well young so there's time to move up the pecking order. As defence is a major facet of a winger's game that must be up to scratch, that's the area that he will probably work on.

Thais is what is most likely meant by "awareness".

Rattlehead_ie

Any word on Murray yet?
So choices here for SH replacement. Marshall, TOL, Boss

Otacon

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

Any word on Murray yet?
So choices here for SH replacement. Marshall, TOL, Boss

If Murray is out, the right call is Boss.

But I would like to see Marshall get the call up. He's been fairly impressive from the few games I have seen him in and would like to see what he offers from the bench against the Scots.

questforfit

Oh no here we go..

Zebo is now being compared to North :rolleyes:

Dave6858

boynesider wrote: »

If there was one change I would like to see in the Irish backline, it would be McFadden for D'Arcy with one of Zebo or D Kearney on the bench

You cant have Earls and McFad as our 2 starting centres!
If BOD was starting Darcy would have been dropped defo.I think Trimble will get one more chance against the Scots.

Monty Burnz

Otacon wrote: »

If Murray is out, the right call is Boss.

But I would like to see Marshall get the call up. He's been fairly impressive from the few games I have seen him in and would like to see what he offers from the bench against the Scots.

Plus uno.

It would be good to see some of the promising Ulster youngsters receive some recognition.