Capello

mike65

Did anyone catch the thoughts of David James? He was interviewed in BBC 5live this morning, I think Capello has lost the dressing room. He responded to a comment by Capello after the game and the tone in James voice nearly froze the mic. He sounded very pissed off.

It seems his ideas of disipline and team building has crashed and burned behind closed doors.

It seems to me Fabio Capello has quite failed at the business end of his job. Revealing the team to his own players only a few hours before kick off is madness. His failure to react to the first half disaster at half time spoke of somone who is either arrogant beyond reason or is now caught in the glare of the WC and has lost control and doesn't know what to do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00sv2wy/World_Cup_Breakfast_19_06_2010/

ff to 2 hrs 42 mins

Xavi6

mike65 wrote: »

Revealing the team to his own players only a few hours before kick off is madness.

http://backpagefootball.com/info/general/the-method-in-capellos-madness/

The year is 1993. Capello’s AC Milan, Champions of Italy and Champion’s League runners up, are flying out to Tokyo to face Sao Paulo in the World Club Cup (Marseille, the team that beat them in the CL final have been banned under allegations of match fixing). On the plane is Dejan Savicevic, a Yugoslavian playmaker of ludicrous talent and non-existent work rate. Savicevic is under a two game FIFA ban after being sent off whilst playing for the national team. Before he boarded the plane Capello was informed that the ban would count for the World Club Cup, and that Il Genio would be unavailable for the competition.

So Capello informs the Yugoslavian of this, and while he is unhappy it is obviously no-one’s fault but his own. Capello then sits next to Florin Raducioiu, a 23 year old Romanian who has so far suffered quite a poor season, and tells him that he will be starting against Sao Paulo, a fact which is confirmed when the starting line up is announced the night before the game. However, the next morning, a message arrives from FIFA, who have decided that the ban applies only to the national team and that Savicevic is eligible to play, which surely, everyone assumes, means he will play. Instead, Capello keeps Raducioiu in the line up, something which infuriates Savicevic and provokes a backlash amongst both media and players and requires personal intervention from club owner Silvio Berlusconi to smooth relations. From then on Capello always waited until just a couple of hours before kickoff to name his starting lineup.

stumpypeeps

mike65 wrote: »

Did anyone catch the thoughts of David James? He was interviewed in BBC 5live this morning, I think Capello has lost the dressing room. He was asked to respond to a comment by Capello after the game and the tone in James voice nearly froze the mic. He sounded very pissed off.

It seems his ideas of disipline and team building has crashed and burned behind closed doors.

It seems to me Fabio Capello has quite failed at the business end of his job. Revealing the team to his own players only a few hours before kick off is madness. His failure to react to the first half disaster at half time spoke of somone who is either arrogant beyond reason or is now caught in the glare of the WC and has lost control and doesn't know what to do.

Thats the way a lot of coaches operate. Benitez and Houllier did according to Carragher. Keeps everyone working hard in training for a start and stops undue pressure building up during the week.

Savman

He was always gonna be scapegoated anyway.

Methinks he wasn't fully prepared for the English media backlash, they say the Italian media is bad but I just can't imagine anything worse than the likes of The Sun for sustained campaigns of journo-terrorism.

carlop

mike65 wrote: »

Did anyone catch the thoughts of David James? He was interviewed in BBC 5live this morning, I think Capello has lost the dressing room. He was asked to respond to a comment by Capello after the game and the tone in James voice nearly froze the mic. He sounded very pissed off.

It seems his ideas of disipline and team building has crashed and burned behind closed doors.

It seems to me Fabio Capello has quite failed at the business end of his job. Revealing the team to his own players only a few hours before kick off is madness. His failure to react to the first half disaster at half time spoke of somone who is either arrogant beyond reason or is now caught in the glare of the WC and has lost control and doesn't know what to do.

Capello managed Real Madrid twice. There is no greater glare, not even the England job IMO. I've heard people saying the pressure has got to him, but he has worked in situations that were equally high-pressure.

He has made some curious decisions, but I think this World Cup is proving that England's players are not actually as good as everybody thought.

Add to that the fact that Rooney, the man who this team's hopes have been pinned on, has not been anywhere near his best since being injured, and England's lacklustre performances make more sense.

carlop

Savman wrote: »

He was always gonna be scapegoated anyway.

Methinks he wasn't fully prepared for the English media backlash, they say the Italian media is bad but I just can't imagine anything worse than the likes of The Sun for sustained campaigns of journo-terrorism.

http://www.marca.com/

lordgoat

Whatever about losing the dressing room, after those first two matches he should be in danger of losing his job. The lack of reaction is frightening. After the first half last night you had to change it, anyone could see that, the midfield was non existent and supply to the forwards came from the back 4, couple this with Heskeys lack of touch meant something had to give. Capello should have read them the riot act and made the subs at the break imo. That was truly the worst England game i've ever watched.

leninbenjamin

mike65 wrote: »

Did anyone catch the thoughts of David James? He was interviewed in BBC 5live this morning, I think Capello has lost the dressing room. He was asked to respond to a comment by Capello after the game and the tone in James voice nearly froze the mic. He sounded very pissed off.

It seems his ideas of disipline and team building has crashed and burned behind closed doors.

It seems to me Fabio Capello has quite failed at the business end of his job. Revealing the team to his own players only a few hours before kick off is madness. His failure to react to the first half disaster at half time spoke of somone who is either arrogant beyond reason or is now caught in the glare of the WC and has lost control and doesn't know what to do.

I think the dressing room has lost Capello tbh... tactically I think the English players have looked totally clueless, and have regularly been doing things that would infuriate Capello.

Last night for example, Lennon kept drifting central and making diagonal runs. Isn't that what Walcott was sent home for? Heskey kept drifting out into wide or deep positions where he'd just piss the ball away, meaning the 4-4-2 completely lost its shape. Gerrard took the piss and ended up on the right more often than the left, meaning England's best attacking threat (Ashley Cole) had no one to link up with...

Overall the England players have been a shambles, a coaches nightmare, and if Capello has lost the dressing room, i genuinely think it's because he has given up on them first.

KittyeeTrix

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Thats the way a lot of coaches operate. Benitez and Houllier did according to Carragher. Keeps everyone working hard in training for a start and stops undue pressure building up during the week.

Not being funny but how many times did Liverpool win the Prem League under these 2???:)

redout

I wouldnt blame Capello at all.

Regardless of some players not being in their favoured position they were still all poor and that aint down to Capello.

They should accept that they aint good enough in the first place - certainly not good enough to win the world cup and in my opinion it was complete hype that they ever were.

They should all just stfu, get the finger out and start to perform to the level expected of them.

England are the most disappointing of the big guns bar the French - what does that tell you ?

I love the way people can always tell if "the manager has lost the dressing room".

A Primal Nut

David James: "Algeria made it difficult for us....teams are not wanting to lose....Algeria deserve credit for making the game as dire a spectacle as possible."

Can't believe he said this. David James had more to do than the Algerian goalkeeper.....a lot more. I expected Algeria to put ten men behind the ball...it wasn't like that at all. I would even give them credit for trying to play football, and accept the fact that they were limited by their ability. It was England who made the game as dire a spectacle as possible, just like in their first game with their constant long balls to Heskey.

He couldn't have been more wrong in my opinion. Big difference between Algeria and for example, North Korea and Switzerland in terms of their approach to the game.

fluffyorganic1

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Not being funny but how many times did Liverpool win the Prem League under these 2???:)

http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/721506/6362835/0/1215846630/fishing_rod_30010.jpg

_Bella_

People say that Capello puts more focus on tactics.... I saw absolutely no tactics out there last night. The Algerians and the Americans both frustrated Rooney and exposed their lack of pace. Did they even look at the players on the Algerian team to look to see where their weaknesses lay because I didn't see any evidence of it last night.

~Rebel~

I'm placing the majority of the blame on the players anyway. Sure, Capello should have changed things sooner, but the only reason he should have changed things was because the players who SHOULD have been much better put in a joke of a performance. So I'm 75% player blame, 25% Capello.

For christ sake, the team they put out last night was almost exactly the same team that destroyed Croatia 5-1 in qualifying, so we know exactly what they're capable of. The players simply didn't do it last night.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I'm placing the majority of the blame on the players anyway. Sure, Capello should have changed things sooner, but the only reason he should have changed things was because the players who SHOULD have been much better put in a joke of a performance. So I'm 75% player blame, 25% Capello.

For christ sake, the team they put out last night was almost exactly the same team that destroyed Croatia 5-1 in qualifying, so we know exactly what they're capable of. The players simply didn't do it last night.

Yeah, the team that day was:
England: Green, Johnson, Terry, Upson, Ashley Cole, Lennon (Beckham 80), Barry, Lampard, Gerrard (Milner 81), Rooney, Heskey (Defoe 60).
Subs Not Used: Foster, Brown, Bridge, Crouch.

Goals: Lampard 8 pen, Gerrard 18, Lampard 59, Gerrard 66, Rooney 77.


That game was in Sept '09. Players were maybe fresher?

Some journos/commentators have been saying that maybe the perperation wasn't as it should, players aren't as fit as they should be.

Fcuk knows but something has gone very wrong somewhere.

I reckon Green and Heskey will be the two scapegoats this time around.

glanman

Capello = Eddie O Sullivan

Extending someones contract before their biggest test, stupid. Capello does crap now, gets sacked, walks away with 12million +

mike65

~Rebel~ wrote: »

For christ sake, the team they put out last night was almost exactly the same team that destroyed Croatia 5-1 in qualifying, so we know exactly what they're capable of. The players simply didn't do it last night.

Context context context!

Two quite different environments. Danny Baker hit the nail on the head I think. Capellos handling has turned the squad into a collective 12 year old having a strop, they've stomped upstairs, slammed the door and turned up the stereo. Capello views players rather like Rafa does - cogs first, people second. In the strange enclosed environment of a World Cup camp the balance is easily upset and I think its now players v coaches.

AckwelFoley

i dont believe for a second hes a bad manager. I think the superstar professional is spoiling professional soccer. Because of their persona all of them seem to think they have an opinion how the team should be run...

When they pull against the manager in different directions it wont work. Graham souness said it best on rte a few months ago when he said he'll never manage again

~Rebel~

mike65 wrote: »

Context context context!

Two quite different environments. Danny Baker hit the nail on the head I think. Capellos handling has turned the squad into a collective 12 year old having a strop, they've stomped upstairs, slammed the door and turned up the stereo. Capello views players rather like Rafa does - cogs first, people second. In the strange enclosed environment of a World Cup camp the balance is easily upset and I think its now players v coaches.

One would imagine adults, at the biggest sporting event in the world, the very pinnacle of their profession, would be able to have a bit of perspective and say "hang on, look where we are, how about we actually try.."

Maybe thats giving them too much credit..

Nozebleed

in fairness. england just dont have the players,they talk about having great players but they just dont have the quality. there's no balance in the side. no left sided players. lennon,SWP and heskey cant even play football and capello is encouraging his team to play long ball which doesn't help anybody.

mike65

They are professional footballers, the most moddycoddled people on the planet, every need satisfyed. They don't have much initiative. Its why a good manager can raise average players, collectively and a poor one can make good players go bad.

Mr Alan

Nozebleed wrote: »

in fairness. england just dont have the players,they talk about having great players but they just dont have the quality. there's no balance in the side. no left sided players. lennon,SWP and heskey cant even play football and capello is encouraging his team to play long ball which doesn't help anybody.

Don't have the players to what? Beat Algeria? USA? yes they do.

Nozebleed

Mr Alan wrote: »

Don't have the players to what? Beat Algeria? USA? yes they do.

obviously not.

steelcityblues

mike65 wrote: »

Context context context!

Two quite different environments. Danny Baker hit the nail on the head I think. Capellos handling has turned the squad into a collective 12 year old having a strop, they've stomped upstairs, slammed the door and turned up the stereo. Capello views players rather like Rafa does - cogs first, people second. In the strange enclosed environment of a World Cup camp the balance is easily upset and I think its now players v coaches.

Players should still take the largest chunk of criticism. It is clear most do not have the same passion or respect for playing in an England shirt, than they do for their clubs week-in, week-out.

Won't change now with the older generation of players!

SlickRic

it's Capello's fault when he puts SWP for Lennon, when a change of system is blatantly needed.

but it's not his fault that England don't have a proper ball-player in the centre of the park.

and it's not his fault that, when it comes to big tournaments, English players generally freeze.

and it's not his fault the media seem to want to do everything possible to screw over their own team, and kill their confidence even more.

and it's not his fault England seems to have a false impression of how good they are at football.

the fact that Gareth Barry, a man who by all accounts isn't even close to being a world-beater, is as important as he is, simply because he can tackle a bit, be disciplined and keep it relatively simple, is an iditement on the lack of quality at Capello's disposal.

it was so bad last night i'd have brought Carrick on, at least he'd have tried to get his foot on the ball. another reason in hindsight, as to why he possibly should've taken a punt on Huddlestone; and why Capello wanted Scholes back.

Capello's made mistakes, but it's not his fault the players in England, from a technical standpoint, which is so important in these tournaments, where the pressure calls for you to rely on your technical ability when all else fails, well, they just aren't really good enough. end of.

at the end of the day, i think Capello is playing a system which is trying to compensate for that lack of basic ability on the ball.

Savman

The players have the ability for jaysis sake, all star performers for their respective clubs in both domestic and European competitions. On paper, Algeria would be doing well do keep the score out of double figures when coming up against a team like England.

But, alas, the old Achilles heel. Overpaid, overworked, overtrained, overstressed, same old same old.

It's called pressure and they buckle under it each and every time.

SlickRic

Savman wrote: »

The players have the ability for jaysis sake

Algeria's technical ability last night; basic keeping of the ball when in possession, was ahead of England's.

England obviously had enough talent overall to win the game, but in terms of keeping the ball, passing it well and crisply, Algeria were better.

and that's a bit sick.

Savman

SlickRic wrote: »

Algeria's technical ability last night; basic keeping of the ball when in possession, was ahead of England's.

England obviously had enough talent overall to win the game, but in terms of keeping the ball, passing it well and crisply, Algeria were better.

and that's a bit sick.

The difference is not in technical ability, it's in mindset. A premiership XI should be p*ssing all over USA and Algeria, the fact that they are struggling so badly indicates there is something else to the equation. It's simply not true to suggest Algeria are a superior footballing team to England, it's pure nonsense.

But these are the joys of a World Cup, reputations count for nothing.

Le King

Capello can't really change the system now because if he does he will get slated for it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I think he needs to inspire the players more. They look like they aren't even trying to put in an effort.

Boskowski

Lol at all the people talking about Englands 'ability' and they should give Algeria 10 on paper...
Have we actually been watching the same match? Because I've seen algerian players being very comfortable on the ball. Their first touches were excellent, their passing and their control was visibly superior to their English counterparts. They looked fluid at times while their opponents looked laborious. And yet I hear people talking about algerias limited ability and englands individual class. My arse.

seadnamac

Just wait until after this World Cup when England are dumped out unceremoniously for the English media to decide that Capello is obviously a crap, over rated manager who couldn't get the best out of their world beaters.

The fact is the English players are just not good enough and they're making Capello look bad in the process. He's sticking to 442 and trying to play a fast direct type of football because that's all these players are capable of. To go to a three man midfield with two wide players behind a lone striker you need a creative intelligent ball player who will take the ball from the defence and initiate the play. England don't have a Fabregas, a Xavi, a Xabi Alonso (three for Spain for f*ck sake), any player that will just show for the ball and pass it competently consistently. If he tried to play a three man midfield with Lampard, Gerrard and Barry I honestly think that on at least one occasion for every 90 minutes they play, all three will run into each other and fall down simultaneously.

John Giles was right when he said that the majority, if not all, of the creative players in the Premiership are not English, a point which seems to be lost on the English media and supporters. The good English midfielders are all of the same ilk - one dimensional, full of energy and effort but no real class. They also only have one decent striker.

Now bear with me for a second while I make a sweeping generalisation. I have always felt that the average English footballer is, well, stupid. They all come from the same type of background, poor, lower class. This contributes heavily to their lack of intelligence on the field, lack of creativity, imagination. They are capable of playing a one-dimensional game, and don't have the ability to make adjustments to their play when needed. I have always taught the continental players to be a bit more cultured, creative and, well, intelligent.

But as I said, that is a sweeping generalisation without any real proof to back it up.

mike65

I dunno that average Johnny Foreigner is much smarter, just better coached as a child. As for the working class yob aspect of the average English footballer, thats basicly true as at the roots its still a working class game. Still they should be commended for making the best of a bad hand dealt by society eh?

seadnamac

mike65 wrote: »

I dunno that average Johnny Foreigner is much smarter, just better coached as a child. As for the working class yob aspect of the average English footballer, thats basicly true as at the roots its still a working class game. Still they should be commended for making the best of a bad hand dealt by society eh?

No not at all, fair play to them. I just think it contributes to their consistent lack of creativity on a football field.

Edit: I mean 'Yes of course, fair play to them.' Read that wrong.

kippy

seadnamac wrote: »

No not at all, fair play to them. I just think it contributes to their consistent lack of creativity on a football field.

I agree with the majority of your earlier post but wouldnt put intelligence/background down as a reason.
The best players (world) of the past 70 years have mostly come from very deprived/under privileged backgrounds.
Frank Lampard is alleged to have a seriously high IQ.

I dont think you can blame intelligence background. Coaching, training and desire (which may come from a bad background) are far bigger drivers of players than anything else.
Maybe English players come from too good a background/upbringing?

As I said, agree with pretty much everything else you said.

seadnamac

kippy wrote: »

I agree with the majority of your earlier post but wouldnt put intelligence/background down as a reason.
The best players (world) of the past 70 years have mostly come from very deprived/under privileged backgrounds.
Frank Lampard is alleged to have a seriously high IQ.

I dont think you can blame intelligence background. Coaching, training and desire (which may come from a bad background) are far bigger drivers of players than anything else.
Maybe English players come from too good a background/upbringing?

As I said, agree with pretty much everything else you said.

Well yea that's a good point alright, it's just a hunch really that I've had for a while now. God knows, it's rare to see an English player sound somewhat intelligent in an interview, but I suppose you could probably say that about players from the continent aswell.

Boskowski

I have a theory (not much of a theory actually, pretty obvious probably) that there is a higher proportion of first class sportsmen coming from a poorer background than from a - say - more sheltered background. Simply on the grounds that rich kids wouldn't have the same drive to excel at something - the same willingness to put in the endless hours of work - because they don't have to.

Of course I'm only throwing this in 'cos it seems the discussion is veering off into that direction. Nothing to do with England and certainly nothing to do with Capello.

GLaDOS

seadnamac wrote: »

Well yea that's a good point alright, it's just a hunch really that I've had for a while now. God knows, it's rare to see an English player sound somewhat intelligent in an interview, but I suppose you could probably say that about players from the continent aswell.

Always thought Lampard come across well when speaking

kippy

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Always thought Lampard come across well when speaking

Allegedly he has a higher than normal IQ.

kippy

Boskowski wrote: »

I have a theory (not much of a theory actually, pretty obvious probably) that there is a higher proportion of first class sportsmen coming from a poorer background than from a - say - more sheltered background. Simply on the grounds that rich kids wouldn't have the same drive to excel at something - the same willingness to put in the endless hours of work - because they don't have to.

Of course I'm only throwing this in 'cos it seems the discussion is veering off into that direction. Nothing to do with England and certainly nothing to do with Capello.

Well soccer has become a "poor" kids sport if I am being honest. Theres very little elitism associated with the sport (low level, kids), it can be played without anything but a football and a few props. The rewards are massive for the best and practice makes perfect. Its not that complicated a game either so yes, it fits right in to poorer backgrounds.
Off topic I know.

Caps is gonna get the bullet over this if the performance doesnt improve. And defo, as people who pretty much only watch the PL we may have been sucked into the english team hype, despite all the signs and comentators stating that the PL and the teams within it are as good as they are mostly because of foreign players - not brave John Terry and the likes.

All that being said, england had a very good qualifying campaign with pretty much the same players. Listening to press conferences this week I had an inkling that the pressure was getting to them, and particularily after how Rob Green was treated in the media during the week.

mike65

Lampard is an exception, Carra, Terry, Gerrard and Rooney are more the average in terms of socio-economic backgrounds. All from inner city low income families for whom choices would be limited. I don't think its a stretch to say Terry would be a low level career criminal if he hadn't found a way into the professional game.

kippy

mike65 wrote: »

Lampard is an exception, Carra, Terry, Gerrard and Rooney are more the average in terms of socio-economic backgrounds. All from inner city low income families for whom choices would be limited. I don't think its a stretch to say Terry would be a low level career criminal if he hadn't found a way into the professional game.

No one knows how they would have turned out but yes, their choices were limited as kids.
Ronaldo (portugal and probably the brazillian one as well), Messi, Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldinho, all, as far as I am aware came from very poor backgrounds. Worse than any of the English I would suspect.
That extra desire is there in them but they have been coached in the game properly and worked hard at it.

bonerm

Suggesting that England's team is uncreative and lacking in imagination because of a general lack of intelligence is incorrect I believe. Whilst I wouldn't for a second doubt that most of them are lacking in intelligence and common sense I would suggest that the sort of performance you saw last night is mainly down to coaching. Not just Capello's coaching but the kind of coaching these players have been instilled with ever since they were kids. If you've spent the last 10-15 years playing to a particular style (ie this "brainless kick and rush" style of the premier league) then you can't just switch it off when it comes to World Cup time). I don't think England can ever win a tournament whilst they keep nurturing players in this way.

I do also agree with Giles comment that nearly all the players in England with class, cleverness and intelligence are imports and that this is no coincidence. The country seems unable or doesn't seem to even want to develop players who can produce magic or inventiveness. It makes me think that's why Cantona was such a revelation when he came to England. The league had literally never seen anything like him. Imagine this Capello team with even one player like a Cantona or a Ronaldo or an Alonso etc would be a completely different proposition imho but the current lot are nothing more than a bunch of workhorses who will huff and puff for 90 minutes with the inevitable last16 or QF exit.

Kiwi_knock

mike65 wrote: »

I don't think its a stretch to say Terry would be a low level career criminal if he hadn't found a way into the professional game.

He would be working in the family business

whatawaster

There are England players with technique, creativity and form on their side. Tom huddlestone and Scott parker and Adam Johnson aren't even in the squad. Joe Cole not used.

Johnson----parker---huddlestone--Cole

---

rooney

---

crouch

---

And a desire to pass the ball would be a huge improvement. At the moment its no different to the sven era. Carragher in the team is a joke. Lampard and gerrard have not done it for England in years. But still reputation rules

Boskowski

Although I'm German and English football usually gets knocked as being 'kick & rush' football from our corners I can't stereotype English football like that at all. Look at united for instance. They dominated europe for a few years now and there was nothing 'kick & rush' about their precise power play that would frighten the sh1t out of the very best once it gets rolling. And yet it seemed to me like a very English style they played and most of their team would have been drafted from domestic players. Sure a few scots, welsh and Irish thrown in but from a footballing education angle that would pass as domestic to me. They always had a few class foreigners but not overbearingly so. Why can't england play like united? Would it take an SAF to make that happen? To me it seems England tries to play continental style rather than English style every time they're going to a tournament.

A Primal Nut

Interesting to hear Souness talk about altitude. Although the match was at sea level, spending the previous few days at altitude causes problems. He reckons the English team doctors messed up the preparations. America on the other hand, didn't bother to adapt. Instead they trained at sea level, went to altitude to play the game, and then back to sea level. And were affected less. Whereas attempts to adapt to altitude in a short period of time had a counter-effect. He was talking about his experiences with Mexico in 1986.

I know it sounds like an excuse, but there is more to this than "the players aren't good enough" or "the tactics are wrong."

kippy

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Interesting to hear Souness talk about altitude. Although the match was at sea level, spending the previous few days at altitude causes problems. He reckons the English team doctors messed up the preparations. America on the other hand, didn't bother to adapt. Instead they trained at sea level, went to altitude to play the game, and then back to sea level. And were affected less. Whereas attempts to adapt to altitude in a short period of time had a counter-effect. He was talking about his experiences with Mexico in 1986.

I know it sounds like an excuse, but there is more to this than "the players aren't good enough" or "the tactics are wrong."

On one hand theres more to it, on the other there isnt.......

A Primal Nut

kippy wrote: »

On one hand theres more to it, on the other there isnt.......

Are you trying to sound philosophical or something? Trying to say something that sounds clever, when it actual fact it doesn't mean anything.

Its clear their opponents were quicker, and were first to the ball. Considering the English players play in the premiership and champions league, you would expect them to at least be quicker and fitter, regardless of the pressure, tactics or technical ability. Yet they clearly weren't.

kippy

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Are you trying to sound philosophical or something? Trying to say something that sounds clever, when it actual fact it doesn't mean anything.

Its clear their opponents were quicker, and were first to the ball. Considering the English players play in the premiership and champions league, you would expect them to at least be quicker and fitter, regardless of the pressure, tactics or technical ability. Yet they clearly weren't.

I was trying to sound as obtuse as you yourself were............
Pretty similiar to what you said in your own post.......
"
I know it sounds like an excuse, but there is more to this than "the players aren't good enough" or "the tactics are wrong."
There maybe more to it, of course, but when you break it down maybe there isnt.
If the players were good enough we wouldnt be having this discussion today.

A Primal Nut

kippy wrote: »

I was trying to sound as obtuse as you yourself were............
Pretty similiar to what you said in your own post.......
"
I know it sounds like an excuse, but there is more to this than "the players aren't good enough" or "the tactics are wrong."
There maybe more to it, of course, but when you break it down maybe there isnt.
If the players were good enough we wouldnt be having this discussion today.

Wow that is some oversimplification of football. You really believe these English players aren't good enough to beat Algeria, who Ireland beat 3-0? A similiar English team beat Croatia 5-1.