Capello

kippy

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Wow that is some oversimplification of football. You really believe these English players aren't good enough to beat Algeria, who Ireland beat 3-0? A similiar English team beat Croatia 5-1.

Football is a very straighforward game.
90 minutes. Team that scores most goals win.
On the night that English 11 weren't good enough to beat Algeria, no matter what team beat them 3-0 before........
I was making the point that on one hand you can analyse it, like you were in that particular post blaming the altitude.....while trying not to blame it at the same time.

On paper that English team should have hammered Algeria.
I believe a combination of pressure, put on by the media/fans and intensified by the performance in the first game was the main cause of their issues. That and the fact that the players arent actually that good anyway.

bonerm

So what do people make of Souness blaming the performances on altitude (and what is he was hinting about that he knows but is not telling us?)

kippy

bonerm wrote: »

So what do people make of Souness blaming the performances on altitude (and what is he was hinting about that he knows but is not telling us?)

Everything is gonna get blamed at this stage.
Its just as likely to be a factor as the remaining players being worried about playing with Terry in case he is sh4gging their missus........

A Primal Nut

kippy wrote: »

Football is a very straighforward game.
90 minutes. Team that scores most goals win.
On the night that English 11 weren't good enough to beat Algeria, no matter what team beat them 3-0 before........
I was making the point that on one hand you can analyse it, like you were in that particular post blaming the altitude.....while trying not to blame it at the same time.

On paper that English team should have hammered Algeria.
I believe a combination of pressure, put on by the media/fans and intensified by the performance in the first game was the main cause of their issues. That and the fact that the players arent actually that good anyway.

Argentina lost 6-1 to Bolivia in qualifying in La Paz. Thia city is infamous for giving a massive advantage to Bolivia because of the altitude. Or maybe its because Argentina just aren't good enough to avoid getting hammered by Bolivia?

Bolivia also beat Brazil and Paraguay in La Paz; picking up 14 points from 27 there in qualifying. In comparison, away from home they picked up 1 point from 27, admittedly that included a 0-0 draw against Brazil but also 5-0 losses to Uruguay and a 3-0 loss to Argentina the same team they beat 6-1 at home. Every team has disrepencies in home and away form but that is extreme as it gets and indeed it has been replicated in previous campaigns.

Obviously USA and Algeria should suffer the same as England, but Souness pointed out that England's approach was very different to that taken by his scottish team in Mexico and he believed it was the wrong one.

I heard an interview with a sports doctor before the tournament who said that unless you have seven weeks to acclimatise, there is no point trying and it could even have a negative effect.

kippy

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Argentina lost 6-1 to Bolivia in qualifying in La Paz. Thia city is infamous for giving a massive advantage to Bolivia because of the altitude. Or maybe its because Argentina just aren't good enough to avoid getting hammered by Bolivia?

They also beat Brazil and Paraguay at home. In comparison, away from home they picked up 1 point from 27, admittedly that included a draw against Brazil but also 5-0 losses to Uruguay and a 3-0 loss to Argentina the same team they beat 6-1 at home.

Obviously USA and Algeria should suffer the same as England, but Souness pointed out that England's approach was very different to that taken by his scottish team in Mexico and he believed it was the wrong one.

I heard an interview with a sports doctor before the tournament who said that unless you have seven weeks to acclimatise, there is no point trying and it could even have a negative effect.

Are you serious?
Altitudes:

http://www.2010capetown.com/sports/2010-world-cup-stadiums.php

You do realise the bolivian stadium is over twice the altitude of any of the stadia in SA:
http://www.2010capetown.com/sports/2010-world-cup-stadiums.php
Argentina werent good enough to beat them on the night in Bolivia and theres a good chance the altitude was a factor - however Argentina didnt have the best of qualifying campaigns in general - did they?
And if the altitude was that much of a benefit for bolivia, why didnt the manage all wins at home? The other teams who got points off them there hardly had seven weeks to acclimatise....



NO TEAM has had seven weeks to acclimatise to anything........

thebullkf

heskey needs to be dropped.



as does Lampard.



start crouch.



and



Carrick/cole



Simples;)

A Primal Nut

kippy wrote: »

Are you serious?
Altitudes:

http://www.2010capetown.com/sports/2010-world-cup-stadiums.php

You do realise the bolivian stadium is over twice the altitude of any of the stadia in SA:
http://www.2010capetown.com/sports/2010-world-cup-stadiums.php
Argentina werent good enough to beat them on the night in Bolivia and theres a good chance the altitude was a factor - however Argentina didnt have the best of qualifying campaigns in general - did they?
And if the altitude was that much of a benefit for bolivia, why didnt the manage all wins at home? The other teams who got points off them there hardly had seven weeks to acclimatise....



NO TEAM has had seven weeks to acclimatise to anything........

The reason they didn't win all their home games is because they are rubbish (one point away from home from nine games including 5-3 loss against Venezuela and 5-0 against Uruguay). However it was enough of a benefit for them to hammer Argentina (who won 3-0 at home despite their bad qualifying campaign) and beat Brazil and Paraguay, and draw against Uruguay. I'd imagine the teams who done well against them are more used to a fairly high altitude (eg Caracas, Quito, Bogota) even if they are not nearly as high as La Paz. They have got to two Copa America finals in their history, and both of them co-incided with the two times they hosted it (out of over 40 competitions). Yes I know France and England only won world cups at home, but statistically the comparison is not valid. The reason I mentioned it is although it is an extreme case, it proves altitude can be a factor.

According to Souness (who played in Mexico 1986), and a sports doctor said a similiar thing in a radio interview before the world cup, if a team don't have enough time to acclimatise, then it is best not to be at high altitude at all. The reason is that by training at high altitude you get all the negative effects (very difficult to train for longer periods, lower fitness, etc) without any of the positive affects (too short a time for any noticable difference in acclimitisation). Souness also said that suddenly going from higher altitude to a lower altitude over a short amount of time also has a negative affect, but I don't understand that one.

He said he couldn't believe England had got it so wrong in their preparations for altitude.

Certainly expain part of their performance. Was more than just playing bad; they actually couldn't run for long periods. I've seen Rooney play bad, but I've never seen him just stop running.

kippy

A Primal Nut wrote: »

The reason they didn't win all their home games is because they are rubbish (one point away from home from nine games including 5-3 loss against Venezuela and 5-0 against Uruguay). However it was enough of a benefit for them to hammer Argentina (who won 3-0 at home) and beat Brazil and Paraguay, and draw against Uruguay. I'd imagine the teams who done well against them are more used to a fairly high altitude (eg Caracas, Quito, Bogota) even if they are not nearly as high as La Paz. They have got to two Copa America finals in their history, and both of them co-incided with the two times they hosted it. The reason I mentioned it is although it is an extreme case, it proves altitude can be a factor.

According to Souness (who played in Mexico 1986), and a sports doctor said a similiar thing in a radio interview before the world cup, if a team don't have seven weeks to acclimatise, then best not to be at high altitude at all. The reason is that by training at high altitude you get all the negative effects (very difficult to train for longer periods, lower fitness, etc) without any of the positive affects (too short a time for any noticable difference in acclimitisation. Souness also said something that suddenly going from higher altitude to a lower altitude over a short amount of time also has a negative affect, but I don't understand that one.

He said he couldn't believe England had got it so wrong in their preparations for altitude.

Certainly expain part of their performance. Was more than just playing bad; they actually couldn't run for long periods.

Thats your reasoning, fair enough. I completely disagree.
No team is going to get 7 weeks prep for any competition.

Johnny Utah

Capello is obviously one of the best coaches in football right now, but there's going to be some backlash when England are dumped out of the World Cup.

The problems with the England team over the last 30-40 years are far greater than the choice of manager. However, in the current squad, I think that Capello has picked the wrong players in certain positions and is too rigid with his 4-4-2 approach, but of course that's what you get with an wily old Italian manager. Personally, I'd pick something like this:

---

Hart

---

Johnson

---

Terry

---

Carragher

---

A. Cole


Lennon

---

Lampard

---

Parker

---

Ashley Young

---

Gerrard

---

---

Rooney

---

I also would have brought Agbonlahor as his pace and strength would terrify defenders. He would have been a good option to use as a sub.

eagle eye

I think Heskey has been one of England's best players so far this World Cup and while many will say that wouldn't be hard he has deffo proven that he is well worth his place.

Its the big players that are not doing it. Personally I'd drop either Lampard or Gerrard, this is the biggest problem that England have, its like they have to play both of them or there would be war. Look at Spain, Fabregas and Torres are on the bench and nobody is complaining about that.
Rooney has been woeful for two games, he should be dropped and Heskey goes if he goes as Defoe and Crouch know each other so well.

People talk about Joe Cole but I'd rather see England play with Barry and Carrick sitting deep and Lampard(or Gerrard) ahead of them and one wide player switching from side to side to create problems.

Johnny Utah

kippy wrote: »

Thats your reasoning, fair enough. I completely disagree.
No team is going to get 7 weeks prep for any competition.

North Korea spent 6 months in camp preparing for the World Cup!

kippy

Johnny Utah wrote: »

North Korea spent 6 months in camp preparing for the World Cup!

North Korea FTW

SlickRic

while Heskey hasn't been the problem, he's not in England's best team.

neither is Carragher.

Gerrard is too ill-disciplined to play wide. it's just a fact with him. his ego won't allow it. so you either drop him, or stick him behind Rooney, or let him have a free role on the right.

---

James/Hart

---

Johnson

---

Terry

---

Dawson

---

Cole

---

Barry

---

Carrick

---

Gerrard

---

Lampard

---

Milner

---

Rooney

---

i know nobody's an expert, least of all me, but that'd be my team.

JPA

eagle eye wrote: »

I think Heskey has been one of England's best players so far this World Cup and while many will say that wouldn't be hard he has deffo proven that he is well worth his place.

He's done well in his role but should his role exist is the question?

mike65

SlickRic wrote: »

---

James/Hart

---

Johnson

---

Terry

---

Dawson

---

Cole

---

Barry

---

Carrick/Milner

---

Milner/Lennon

---

Gerrard

---

Cole

---

Rooney

---

Would be my pick

Mister men

Capello's on a hiding to nothing. England players just are'nt good enough.
Goalkeeper....Take your pick. All average
Right back (Johnson) can't defend
Centre backs (Terry and Carragher) are slow and past it.
Left back (Cole) decent but no heart
Midfield (Gerrard and Lampard) can't play together
Wingers (Lennon,Philips) are fast but brainless. England have'nt had a decent winger in donkey's years.
Forwards (Rooney and Heskey) Injured and plain ****e.

The media before the World Cup would have you believe England are God's gift to the beautiful game but it's just the same old same. I'd say it's painful for England fans to watch teams with the ability of Algeria play them off the park for huge parts of a 90 minute match but that's a fact Capello will have to live with. Also what the hell is Capello doing letting Beckham sit on the bench for the entirity of the World Cup.

namloc1980

eagle eye wrote: »

I think Heskey has been one of England's best players so far this World Cup and while many will say that wouldn't be hard he has deffo proven that he is well worth his place.

I can't see how you can say that. Heskey is England's target man as they are playing longball in this tournament. But he is a rubbish targetman. I lost count of the amount of times last night that a ball that was played into Heskey and he couldn't make it stick, it just bounced off him and landed at an Algerian player. If the 'big man up front' can't make the ball stick and bring others into the play then he shouldn't be on the field and is in no way worth his place.

Mister men

eagle eye wrote: »

I think Heskey has been one of England's best players so far this World Cup and while many will say that wouldn't be hard he has deffo proven that he is well worth his place.

Its the big players that are not doing it. Personally I'd drop either Lampard or Gerrard, this is the biggest problem that England have, its like they have to play both of them or there would be war. Look at Spain, Fabregas and Torres are on the bench and nobody is complaining about that.
Rooney has been woeful for two games, he should be dropped and Heskey goes if he goes as Defoe and Crouch know each other so well.

People talk about Joe Cole but I'd rather see England play with Barry and Carrick sitting deep and Lampard(or Gerrard) ahead of them and one wide player switching from side to side to create problems.

This is the reason England will never win anything. Rooney has been injured and off the pace since around April of this year yet Capello would get slaughtered if he dropped him and England lost. It makes sense to play Crouch and Defoe up top but it will never happen. Also i'd drop Lampard and replace him with Barry as the holding midfielder but again Capello seems to be unable to grow a pair with his team selection so i expect to see both Lampard and Gerrard start next week.

nipps

here's my team:

---

james

---

---johnson----terry----dawson---a.cole--
--lennon

---

barry----gerrard

---

j.cole---

---

defoe

---

crouch

---

heskey never should have been starting.
rooney- attitude? injury? tired? not on form.
dawson bit more pace in defense, is a solid player, would do well.
j.cole adds flair and creativity that's lacking.
lampard has to go because gerrard is captain, and the gerrard/lampard combo isn't working.

england's best team for the next match.

Dont be at yourself

To be honest, I don't think the tactics or line-up has to change. The players sent out last night are good enough to beat Algeria. That they didn't was down to their mentality. They can't handle the pressure and weight of expectation. They can't handle the boos or the merciless scapegoating in the media the next day.

It happens all the time. The team is built up during the qualification campaign to be the best team in the world. Suddenly one little thing goes wrong, the fans and media instantly turn on them and they crumble.

seadnamac

Since everyone else is doing it..

---

Hart

---

Johnson----Terry----Dawson----Cole

---

Parker

---

Barry

---

Cole/Milner

---

Young

---

Gerrard

---

Rooney

leninbenjamin

I'd like to see England try a 4-2-3-1 myself, but rather than push Gerrard forward like most are suggesting I'd add another body to the midfield so England can do that patient build up thing that you need to be able to do when playing against very compact and defensive sides. By putting Carrick in there you can push Lamps and Lennon forward more and get them on the ball in the final third.

---

James

---

Johnson - Dawson - Terry - A.Cole

---

Barry

---

---

Carrick

---

Lennon

---

Lampard ---- J.Cole

---

Rooney

---

allthedoyles

For god's sake this thread is about Capello - not the English Team formation.

Look at him ...............He is under pressure .................He cannot speak English - Therefore how can you expect him to communicate with his players .

During a break in the 2nd half last match, he had his hand on Gerrard's shoulder and he appeared to be trying to tell him something .....................Its impossible , Capello is not fluent in English .

He is even worse than our own Trappatoni.

aidan24326

eagle eye wrote: »

I think Heskey has been one of England's best players so far this World Cup and while many will say that wouldn't be hard he has deffo proven that he is well worth his place.

He has proven nothing of the sort. He runs and works tirelessly for sure and he'll always give you 100%, but unfortunately that's not always enough. Heskey gives England alot of huff and puff but not much else in all honesty. His touch and close control aren't good enough at this sort of level, and it's not like he scores a whole lot either. If you're going to play a big man up front, Crouch is surely a better option. At least with Crouch, even if he's not playing that well in general play there's always a good chance he'll nick a goal (21 in 40 games for England is a more than decent record at international level, where scoring chances tend to be fewer).

Its the big players that are not doing it. Personally I'd drop either Lampard or Gerrard,

You could argue that none of the England players are doing it, big names or otherwise. But if it was a choice right now between Lampard or Gerrard I would drop Lampard. He's been very poor so far. Gerrard hasn't been a whole lot better but he's been marginally the better of the two imo, and could come good if released into an attacking role in behind Rooney.

But there isn't one single player to come out of these two games with any credit, and right now I don't think anyone's place is safe in that team (nor should it be).

As for Capello, he's funked it so far, and he really needs to make the right changes the next night.

allthedoyles

aidan24326 wrote: »

But if it was a choice right now between Lampard or Gerrard I would drop Lampard. He's been very poor so far. Gerrard hasn't been a whole lot better but he's been marginally the better of the two imo, and could come good if released into an attacking role in behind Rooney.
.

agree 100 %

seadnamac

allthedoyles wrote: »

For god's sake this thread is about Capello - not the English Team formation.

It's evolution, baby.

Carcharodon

He has made his bed by bringing players like Heskey (can't start on the Villa team), SWP (can't start at City), Carragher (poor season but has been ok, didn't deserve place though), Carrick (a painfully bad soccer player).

What must be going through Crouch and Defos heads when they see Heskey starting and then there is Bent, he can't catch a break.

Then you have Parker left behind, he has had a blinder of a season in my opinion.

_Bella_

---

James

---

Johnson - Dawson - Terry - A.Cole

---

Carrick

---

Lennon

---

Lampard ---- J.Cole

---

Gerard

---

---

Rooney

---

I seem to remember Joe Cole, Lampard and Carrick playing together in midfield before in West Ham

Mister men

Carcharodon wrote: »

He has made his bed by bringing players like Heskey (can't start on the Villa team), SWP (can't start at City), Carragher (poor season but has been ok, didn't deserve place though), Carrick (a painfully bad soccer player).

What must be going through Crouch and Defos heads when they see Heskey starting and then there is Bent, he can't catch a break.

Then you have Parker left behind, he has had a blinder of a season in my opinion.

Parker was never going to make it because he does'nt play for one of the big teams. He is the best England have in that position imo and Capello screwed up big time leaving him out.

Carcharodon

Mister men wrote: »

Parker was never going to make it because he does'nt play for one of the big teams. He is the best England have in that position imo and Capello screwed up big time leaving him out.

I agree, Capello was supposed to be his own man and do things his way and not be influenced by anything but in the end he has been like most English managers and has been heavily influenced by the English media in my opinion.

Heaven forbid he would drop some of the deadwood in the team and make some changes to suit a formation that would do an English team justice.
Pick players on actual form rather than a reputation that is heavily influenced by the media.

Melion

Odds on him to be the next Liverpool manager?

mike65

Long even if he is devalued by a quick exit.

Mr Alan

heavily influenced by the media? were they screaming for Carra back? Or Green to start? Or Heskey to keep his place? Nonsense.

eagle eye

Capello is a superb manager, his record speaks for itself.

Players are not doing their job on the pitch, he has to take some blame for that but there is a lot of nonsense in this thread.

Pepe LeFrits

I'd like to see this for the next game (if certain players had been included):

James
Johnson Terry Campbell Cole
Parker
Lampard Milner
Johnson Rooney Cole

Capello's obviously a top class manager but I can't say I've been terribly impressed with his selections thus far. Shades of Sven with the experimentation late on in friendlies and still seeming no closer to having a well oiled outfit.

_Bella_

Apparently Capello is expected to resign if they dont win or draw
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8750672.stm

eagle eye

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I'd like to see this for the next game (if certain players had been included):

James
Johnson Terry Campbell Cole
Parker
Lampard Milner
Johnson Rooney Cole

Capello's obviously a top class manager but I can't say I've been terribly impressed with his selections thus far. Shades of Sven with the experimentation late on in friendlies and still seeming no closer to having a well oiled outfit.

I'm sorry but this makes me lmfao.

You want Joe Cole in the team who has done nothing in a long, long time. You want to keep Rooney in the team and he has been possibly England's worst player over the two games so far. There is something wrong with Rooney but changing the formation is not going to make him start playing, he is nowhere near good enough to start at the moment.

As for your selections that aren't even in the squad, Johnson are you for real? A guy that has been injured for most of the season and couldn't get his place back because another English player was on fire at his club.
And Parker is so overrated by so many, he was ok this season but not nearly as good as people seem to be making out.

steelcityblues

_Bella_ wrote: »

Apparently Capello is expected to resign if they dont win or draw
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8750672.stm

A draw won't be good enough, if either Algeria or USA win!

Melion

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm sorry but this makes me lmfao.


As for your selections that aren't even in the squad, Johnson are you for real? A guy that has been injured for most of the season and couldn't get his place back because another English player was on fire at his club.
And Parker is so overrated by so many, he was ok this season but not nearly as good as people seem to be making out.

What am i missing here?
When was Adam Johnson injured and what english player was on fire at City?

Pepe LeFrits

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm sorry but this makes me lmfao.

You want Joe Cole in the team who has done nothing in a long, long time.

He's been injured.

You want to keep Rooney in the team and he has been possibly England's worst player over the two games so far. There is something wrong with Rooney but changing the formation is not going to make him start playing, he is nowhere near good enough to start at the moment.

Wanting to keep Rooney in the team makes you lmfao? 2 bad games or not, he's England's best player by a country ****ing mile.

As for your selections that aren't even in the squad, Johnson are you for real? A guy that has been injured for most of the season and couldn't get his place back because another English player was on fire at his club.
And Parker is so overrated by so many, he was ok this season but not nearly as good as people seem to be making out.

England aren't exactly blessed with options at holding midfield, and Parker has been as good as any... and Johnson's had a good season. He's more creative than most of England's wingers and lord knows they could do with some.

Iron Hide

Hargreaves comes to mind as a holding midfielder, then again he's been injured before he could walk. Parker would have been a good choice in place of Barry i think. Barry is a good player no doubt, but he is a left sided midfielder, not central or a winger. Kinda tied down to one position i think, and little variation means everyone else has to factor in him to their play, rather than the other way round.

Mr.Nice Guy

eagle eye wrote:

I think Heskey has been one of England's best players so far this World Cup and while many will say that wouldn't be hard he has deffo proven that he is well worth his place.

eagle eye wrote: »

There is something wrong with Rooney but changing the formation is not going to make him start playing, he is nowhere near good enough to start at the moment.

Absolutely baffling to me that someone could think not only that Heskey merits a place, but that he merits it over Rooney.

Mr Alan

please sack him England, please.

steelcityblues

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Absolutely baffling to me that someone could think not only that Heskey merits a place, but that he merits it over Rooney.

No one deserves their place on past reputation!

Mr.Nice Guy

steelcityblues wrote: »

No one deserves their place on past reputation!

Agreed, but he merits it on potential. He has been poor but Heskey at 100% of his best can't offer what Rooney can do at 70% of his best or higher.

doc_17

typical old england! Blast their way through an awful qualifying group, have a string of players coming out saying "we can win it", play hopelessy stupid football and then look for scapegoats!

Sven, mclaren and now capello are all guilty of repeating the same mistakes, heskey, beckham, poor midfield despite good players available there etc etc

if capello can make a couple of changes england could still have a run at this cos the quality thus far is awful

Boskowski

f capello can make a couple of changes england could still have a run at this cos the quality thus far is awful

ye and England leading the awful stakes.

Carcharodon

Mr Alan wrote: »

heavily influenced by the media? were they screaming for Carra back? Or Green to start? Or Heskey to keep his place? Nonsense.

Influenced by media does not just mean bringing these players, these are mistakes he made all on his own..:rolleyes:

Not making changes or not dropping big name players that don't perform is being influenced by media in my opinion. He is still trying to accommodate too many players, make of that what you will.

flahavaj

steelcityblues wrote: »

No one deserves their place on past reputation!

By that logic you'd drop everyone that had one bad game ever.

Theres no comparison between dropping Rooney a genuine world class player and dropping Heskey a mediocre striker with a terrible goalscoring record, the first touch of a rapist, who doesn't even get his game at Villa not to mind play for England.

steelcityblues

flahavaj wrote: »

By that logic you'd drop everyone that had one bad game ever.

Theres no comparison between dropping Rooney a genuine world class player and dropping Heskey a mediocre striker with a terrible goalscoring record, the first touch of a rapist, who doesn't even get his game at Villa not to mind play for England.

I think both should be dropped for the final group game btw!