should i switch to wimax?

elazar55

hi. i want to switch to wimax, but i heard that people are getting very bad ping times with them. i'm now on eircom and the only reason i want to switch is i want 7mb and eircom dsl can't get me them. i live about 10km from athenry and heard that they are getting a new station in september. i spoke to a representitive and he said the i might be able to get an internal box that plugs into the phone line. can someone please explain that to me? why does it plug into the phone line if its wireless?

thanks.

watty

Wimax is two Technologies:

Fixed Wireless: Usually Broadband. Uses Outdoor Aerials/Radios only. Lots of ISPs use it.

Mobile/Nomadic Wireless: Uses Dongles, Indoor Radios, Indoor aerials and outdoor Aerials. Up to 16x poorer capacity in same spectrum, can be erratic. Only sold in Ireland by Imagine (gradually replacing the IBB Ripwave they bought out). Like Mobile Phone systems (3G/HSDPA/iHSPA, so called "Mobile Broadband"), the speed is only an "Up to" speed, depending on signal level, how many people use your mast etc, the speed can be very much lower and latency erratic (high pings). Best described as "Midband". Additional problem is that a lot of Imagine / IBB masts are 3.5GHz, this is much higher (1.4GHz) than3G Mobile Phone 2.1GHz, so aerials inside dongles or inside buildings perform poorly.

Many Wireless systems, Fibre and also Cable provide phone sockets for regular phones, INSTEAD of using the eircom copper pair.

I have Digiweb Metro, and have Fax, 2 sets of DECT cordless handsets and two 061 numbers. I've had no eircom line for abut 5 years.

What are you wanting to switch from?
Are you on DSL now? If you get 3Mbps, and want faster, only consider UPC cable, Magnet fibre or Digiweb Metro.

elazar55

yeah i'm on dsl now. i can't get anymore on my line so i was considering a different method. i live in the country so there aren't many choices. about 10km from athenry. is there anyway i can get 7mb?

ingen

elazar55 wrote: »

yeah i'm on dsl now. i can't get anymore on my line so i was considering a different method. i live in the country so there aren't many choices. about 10km from athenry. is there anyway i can get 7mb?

i on the same path, max i can get is 5mb dsl, but i want faster.

i called Irish Broadband who said that they dont do breeze anymore but the could do wimax..

is the antenna the same as the one for metro?

Chaz

ingen wrote: »

i on the same path, max i can get is 5mb dsl, but i want faster.

i called Irish Broadband who said that they dont do breeze anymore but the could do wimax..

is the antenna the same as the one for metro?

No, Metro and WiMax have nothing in common from a platform point of view.

ingen

Chaz wrote: »

No, Metro and WiMax have nothing in common from a platform point of view.

what sort of antenna do you get with wimax so?

deravarra

elazar55 wrote: »

yeah i'm on dsl now. i can't get anymore on my line so i was considering a different method. i live in the country so there aren't many choices. about 10km from athenry. is there anyway i can get 7mb?

If you're referring to wimax - aka Imagine wimax, you probably wont be able to get it if you are living about 10km away from a base station. I've been told that Imagine will be upgrading their base stations in the near future to increase the range and the quality of their service, and also be able to take on more people. I think there are some limitations at the moment with the amount of people being able to connect at a low cap.

From everything I have seen with WiMax in the US, WiMax should be able to cater for connections as far as 40+km away, but Im sure that would not be the case here for quite a bit of time.

Imagine have been saying that they are in the middle of a "build" process - meaning that not everyone in the country will be covered for at least 2 years. They are saying that they are going to have about 97% of the country covered in that time ... adding around 30 base stations each month, so that would have them putting up around 800 base stations before the end of 2011... with a current capacity of 200-500 per base station, with the intention of being able to carry around 1200+ customers on each station, and having a range of 15k approx, they should live up to that promise.

Anyways, I'd stick with what you have for the moment,,,

elazar55

alright then, ill stick with what i have for a while.

Chaz

ingen wrote: »

what sort of antenna do you get with wimax so?

Its not the antenna, its the operating frequency and the air protocol that goes with the system.

The metro unit works at 10.5 GHz - the antenna and electronics are in the white metro box.

WiMax requires a new / different unit completely.

Chaz

deravarra wrote: »

If you're referring to wimax - aka Imagine wimax, you probably wont be able to get it if you are living about 10km away from a base station. I've been told that Imagine will be upgrading their base stations in the near future to increase the range and the quality of their service, and also be able to take on more people. I think there are some limitations at the moment with the amount of people being able to connect at a low cap.

From everything I have seen with WiMax in the US, WiMax should be able to cater for connections as far as 40+km away, but Im sure that would not be the case here for quite a bit of time.

Imagine have been saying that they are in the middle of a "build" process - meaning that not everyone in the country will be covered for at least 2 years. They are saying that they are going to have about 97% of the country covered in that time ... adding around 30 base stations each month, so that would have them putting up around 800 base stations before the end of 2011... with a current capacity of 200-500 per base station, with the intention of being able to carry around 1200+ customers on each station, and having a range of 15k approx, they should live up to that promise.

Anyways, I'd stick with what you have for the moment,,,

Creating cells to do 40kms is silly. It can be done but doesnt make commercial sense when building / designing wireless networks. If you want a rural link, sure, it can be done, but no one does that with their own money.

deravarra

Chaz wrote: »

Creating cells to do 40kms is silly. It can be done but doesnt make commercial sense when building / designing wireless networks. If you want a rural link, sure, it can be done, but no one does that with their own money.

I know . but it shows the capability of the wimax technology. It's being used in India, bringing internet to the most rural of areas.. even as a mobile technology it's connecting those who were previously isolated in technology terms. I do know that even those who dont have pc's have "wimax ladies" (I think that's what they're called) bringing something like the OLPC from village to village, connecting to the net via wimax. I think it's an initiative sponsored by Intel...

While it mightnt be commercially viable everywhere, it wouldnt be a huge money pit to establish a few of them around the country to bring wimax/broadband to places where it cant be received presently

Chaz

deravarra wrote: »

I know . but it shows the capability of the wimax technology. It's being used in India, bringing internet to the most rural of areas.. even as a mobile technology it's connecting those who were previously isolated in technology terms. I do know that even those who dont have pc's have "wimax ladies" (I think that's what they're called) bringing something like the OLPC from village to village, connecting to the net via wimax. I think it's an initiative sponsored by Intel...

While it mightnt be commercially viable everywhere, it wouldnt be a huge money pit to establish a few of them around the country to bring wimax/broadband to places where it cant be received presently

Agreed, but the £££ doesnt make sense. The NBS should have paid for this (but didnt).

watty

Also the Imagine network would be far better if it was exclusively Outdoor directional aerials. Using indoor aerials and "dongles" at 3.5GHz is just going to give "Wimax" a bad name. The Kind of WiMax Imagine are using is best suited to 700Mhz to 2500MHz, really the lower the better for self install Rural.


A 40km diameter cell is 100 times the area of a 2km radius cell which is as big as you want on iHSPA/3G as it's only got 3 x5MHz. So at same density of users and performance you would need 100 x 15Mhz = 1500MHz or about 15x more spectrum than is possible. Even with 100 MHz spectrum, a 40km cell can really only support 1/15th the density of users as a typical 3G cell! Maybe OK for sub-Saharan Africa, but only the larger mountains have that low a density here.

Far better to reuse the spectrum in smaller cells. Cheaper smaller Modems and aerials.

deravarra

watty wrote: »

Also the Imagine network would be far better if it was exclusively Outdoor directional aerials. Using indoor aerials and "dongles" at 3.5GHz is just going to give "Wimax" a bad name. The Kind of WiMax Imagine are using is best suited to 700Mhz to 2500MHz, really the lower the better for self install Rural.


A 40km diameter cell is 100 times the area of a 2km radius cell which is as big as you want on iHSPA/3G as it's only got 3 x5MHz. So at same density of users and performance you would need 100 x 15Mhz = 1500MHz or about 15x more spectrum than is possible. Even with 100 MHz spectrum, a 40km cell can really only support 1/15th the density of users as a typical 3G cell! Maybe OK for sub-Saharan Africa, but only the larger mountains have that low a density here.

Far better to reuse the spectrum in smaller cells. Cheaper smaller Modems and aerials.

Im not altogether too sure that Imagine are limiting themselves to the 3.5 GHz spectrum forever ...

Isnt there something about the spectrum that will become available when the analog tv signal is switched off? wont that make a difference?

Chaz

deravarra wrote: »

Im not altogether too sure that Imagine are limiting themselves to the 3.5 GHz spectrum forever ...

Isnt there something about the spectrum that will become available when the analog tv signal is switched off? wont that make a difference?

Yep, theres lots of spectrum that will be released but I think youll need very deep pockets to play in that game (to acquire the license)

The 3G type operators will probably also fancy it - cant see how someone Imagine can compete (unless they have or can find very deep pockets).

deravarra

Chaz wrote: »

Yep, theres lots of spectrum that will be released but I think youll need very deep pockets to play in that game (to acquire the license)

The 3G type operators will probably also fancy it - cant see how someone Imagine can compete (unless they have or can find very deep pockets).

But seeing that the 3G operators are currently testing new broadband offerings, bringing up to 100Mb + over their current networks, Im not altogether too sure that they would need the extra spectrum. I dont think the government will be looking for the same kind of price that they auctioned the last spectrums ... seeing that we're in a recession, companies wont be too eager to invest, unless they're new in the game. For that reason, I would say that Imagine will invest.

LTE would probably be better over the same spectrum as the current 3G, and the enhancements will enable them to not only compete against wimax, but beat it hands down!

Chaz

Three things you cannot have too much of.

Money
Sex
Bandwidth (spectrum)

....

watty

deravarra wrote: »

But seeing that the 3G operators are currently testing new broadband offerings, bringing up to 100Mb + over their current networks, Im not altogether too sure that they would need the extra spectrum.

And the average per sector throughput for one 5MHz Channel for 42MBps iHSPA+ or whatever they call it?

Typically 2Mbps on a evenly distributed economically loaded cell.

The 3G operators have 3 channels each of 5MHz. Only a small percentage of data users can EVER get much more than 4Mbps, even with only one person connecting!

Imagine has to compete on open market with all the other operators (most with deeper pockets) for the NATIONAL 2300, 2600MHz and 800MHz licences when they come up. Then the licence will obligate them to roll out NATIONAL coverage. It would make what the spent on IBB look like small change. Also IBB was loss making before Imagine purchased them.

watty

Six things?

Chaz wrote: »

---- things you cannot have too much of.

Money
Sex
Bandwidth (spectrum)

....

and

Dark Chocolate
More Spectrum
Aerials

ShaunC

Deraverra, I live 6 miles from Mullingar and Imagine reckon they can give me WiMax. Can you tell me what issues I could have with this i.e. contention ratio actual speed L.o.s. etc...

watty

He doesn't have it and isn't an Imagine Rep.

See here http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055709982

ShaunC

what you say may be true but he does seem to know what he is talking about, Thanks for the link.