South Drogheda broadband options / Bonded DSL discussion

ingen

a lot of South Drogheda ( Dublin Road area) cannot get higher than 4~5MB DSL speed due to the length of the eircom phone lines, yet the likes of digiweb metro, ( line of sight issues), UPC, NTL are all unavailable.

:o midband is available but is not reliable.

so what is one to do? seems like DSL is the only alternative Eircom/Vodafone
for any sort of speed.

eircom wont assist in supplying Bonded DSL, or supporting MLPPP , and buying 2 lines and 2 broadband packages,

what is one to do

its 2010 for god sake.:mad::mad:

Sponge Bob

eircom has installed a number of new dsl cabs in recent years in S Drogheda , eg their engineering depot and colpe cross come to mind . If enough people hassle them they will connect the copper back to these exchanges rather than the main exchange in town , both are ADSL2 compatible.

ingen

Sponge Bob wrote: »

eircom has installed a number of new dsl cabs in recent years in S Drogheda , eg their engineering depot and colpe cross come to mind . If enough people hassle them they will connect the copper back to these exchanges rather than the main exchange in town , both are ADSL2 compatible.

they actually won't! as there is no cable ducting from houses to the grange rath exchange. i tried everything, but they were not in the least bit helpful.
so thats not an option unfortunately.

watty

I just found this gem

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-04-24/

Re: Cabs.

I think some people have no copper going near those Cabs even though they might be < 1km, so connect the 5km+ to original exchange?

ingen

watty wrote: »

Re: Cabs.

I think some people have no copper going near those Cabs even though they might be < 1km, so connect the 5km+ to original exchange?

yes the main flow of copper is to the original exchange 4km away.
however then there is no proper cable ducting going near the new exchange anyways, as a lot of houses along the main dublin road leading to the new exchange , are connected to eircom by telephone pole connections.

so i have requested a new line, with eircom in the hope that it may be a cleaner line and offer better speed ( unlikely i know )

if they would actually let me connect to a closer exchange, i would help them with the work,

so anyone with any ideas on how i can get the most out of 2 dsl lines, feel free to post suggestions, cheers

Sponge Bob

We know what bonded pairs can do but eircom have developed no product based on bonded pair. As the number of households with an eircom line is heading inexorably towards 50% it is quite evident that eircom has spare pairs on its copper plant and could offer a bonded pair product .

Some bonded pair VDSL profiles allow for 100mbit downloads close in to the exchange....but eircom does not offer any VDSL product as we know despite having tested VDSL in Ennis between 2003 and 2005 and testing VDSL2 on and off since 2006 in south Dublin

For now you need a failover router that balances across 2 DSL lines.

ingen

Sponge Bob wrote: »

We know what bonded pairs can do but eircom have developed no product based on bonded pair. As the number of households with an eircom line is heading inexorably towards 50% it is quite evident that eircom has spare pairs on its copper plant and could offer a bonded pair product .

Some bonded pair VDSL profiles allow for 100mbit downloads close in to the exchange....but eircom does not offer any VDSL product as we know despite having tested VDSL in Ennis between 2003 and 2005 and testing VDSL2 on and off since 2006 in south Dublin

For now you need a failover router that balances across 2 DSL lines.

Ok considering that my dsl options are limited
What is the best setup to use to be able to download
Large files using the 2 links in a multi session download

I know that streaming or voip would only use one line

A dsl router with 2 WAN ports?

I'm trying to make the most with the limited options available

Sponge Bob

You may either

1. Buy a load balancing/failover dsl router like this and set rules for what to up and download.

2. You may alternatively get 2 lines, each with a Netopia modem and feed both into a single load balancing Dual Wan device running the very powerful DD-WRT OS , see

You wish to load balance rather than failover

watty

Yes, he has a thread on it here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055944070

I agree, though I suggested Clarke Connect or OpenWRT. DD-WRT is a commercial fork of OpenWRT, so 6 of one half a dozen of the other.

The only "hard" part of having two modems in Bridge mode is having the Router Hardware have 3 separate ethernet ports, WAN1, WAN2 and LAN. Not especially hard.

But he'll only get x2 speed on multple sessions or a server that can accept download of a single file via multiple connections. It's extremely unlikely UDP traffic (i.e. HD video) can use more than one connection for one video without ISP end bonding.

ingen

watty wrote: »

Yes, he has a thread on it here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055944070

I agree, though I suggested Clarke Connect or OpenWRT. DD-WRT is a commercial fork of OpenWRT, so 6 of one half a dozen of the other.

The only "hard" part of having two modems in Bridge mode is having the Router Hardware have 3 separate ethernet ports, WAN1, WAN2 and LAN. Not especially hard.

But he'll only get x2 speed on multple sessions or a server that can accept download of a single file via multiple connections. It's extremely unlikely UDP traffic (i.e. HD video) can use more than one connection for one video without ISP end bonding.

ok folks here is my kit list so far bits and pieces that i have lying around my office.

1 netopia 2247-62
1 netopia 2247-NWG
1 netgear DG834G

1 nortel 2000 business policy switch 2000 ( 24 Port )

thanks watty and sponge bob for the sugesstions so far, will take these on board.

the netgear can run tomato firmware, or DG team custom firmware, im looking into at the moment the tomato custom MLPPP firmware to see what that offers.

i have an eircom 16 core cable coming into the house here, so plenty of scope of additional lines, as the work is 99% done already.

one thing i noticed in testing, is that browsing works far faster if i plug the dsl modem into the switch and then the pc into the switch. browsing seems much faster than plugging the pc directly into the netopia!.. strange


i was reading on the net where some dude, connected in 2 dsl modems to his netgear running tomato MLPPP firmware and that balanced the traffic, and on big downloads he got the speed of both lines! looking into this now.

i have attached the netopia pdf, which indicates the dslam might already support mlppp in eircom already... im not sure what gear eircom use in the exchange.

some more info here http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17892658


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68fZCZS2MIU motorway???:D:D:D

watty

Tomato is a cut down clone of OpenWRT /DD-wrt
Go with DD-WRT, or OpenWrt (better)

You need a non-DSL, modemless router that you can partition the VLAN on to have 2 x WAN ports to 2 x DSL modems in Bridge mode. Unless the DG834G has VLAN based switch and you can configure one port as WAN (doubtful) for a 2n DSL modem, it won't help you.

You can configure multiple WAN ports on some of the Linksys WRT54G ethernet routers.
(My WRT54G3G allows it running White Russian OpenWRT).

I have an x86 embedded Geode based board that can have 3 ethernet ports, it runs Kamakaze OpenWRT as my main router. Soekris and PCengines make these with 3 separate ethernet ports. A bit priceier than a basic router but you won't run out of memory. A Cheap atom based all in one or netbook can have 2 ethernets added via USB and run Clarke Conect, OpenWRt or DD-WRT. Connect the two DSL modems in Bridge mode to the two extra ethernets (running the PPPoE on your router) and the 3rd ethernet to your LAN switch.

Most DSLAMs support bonding, but it does you no good if the ISP doesn't set it up for your lines.

ingen

watty wrote: »

Tomato is a cut down clone of OpenWRT /DD-wrt
Go with DD-WRT, or OpenWrt (better)

You need a non-DSL, modemless router that you can partition the VLAN on to have 2 x WAN ports to 2 x DSL modems in Bridge mode. Unless the DG834G has VLAN based switch and you can configure one port as WAN (doubtful) for a 2n DSL modem, it won't help you.

You can configure multiple WAN ports on some of the Linksys WRT54G ethernet routers.
(My WRT54G3G allows it running White Russian OpenWRT).

I have an x86 embedded Geode based board that can have 3 ethernet ports, it runs Kamakaze OpenWRT as my main router. Soekris and PCengines make these with 3 separate ethernet ports. A bit priceier than a basic router but you won't run out of memory. A Cheap atom based all in one or netbook can have 2 ethernets added via USB and run Clarke Conect, OpenWRt or DD-WRT. Connect the two DSL modems in Bridge mode to the two extra ethernets (running the PPPoE on your router) and the 3rd ethernet to your LAN switch.

Most DSLAMs support bonding, but it does you no good if the ISP doesn't set it up for your lines.

this would do the trick? http://www.dabs.ie/products/edimax-2-wan---4lan-load-balancing-router-5BR8.html

or this

http://komplett.ie/Komplett/product/ZKB_01COM/18_NETWORK/14_ROUTER/productdetails/15314078/Linksys_Wireless_G_Broadband_Router_54/WRT54GL_EU/default.aspx not bad price really,


so watty, if i go with the linksys WRT54GL-EU and put 2 netopias in pass through, would this do the trick ,,( with custom FW) cheers

watty

The edimax seems the same as the Dlink SpongeBob suggested. It should do aggregation/loadbalancing with two modems in "bridge" mode. I setup an eircom Netopia last weekin Bridge Mode with Dlink ethernet router as it's built in wireless wasn't working. All the eircom settings are typed in as if it's a DSL modem when the "bridged" modem is connected to WAN port.

But I have not tested that Edimax or the Dlink Sponge Bob suggests


The WRT54GL-EU "out of the box" only has one ethernet WAN port, but in fact all 5 ports are on the same swtich and it uses VLAN, so you can even have 4 WAN ports (4 modems) and one LAN port to Switch.

It is supported on OpenWRT.
http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt54gl
Read
http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/installing

If you are not familar with Linux or such custom firmware, then buy the Dlink Sponge Bob suggested or the edimax you found. If the documents make sense on the OpenWRT site (DD-WRT is similar but usually less advanced as it's the commercial fork) then go for the Linksys

It should be possible to do it with the linksys wrt54gl, but you are on your own compared with the "off the shelf" load sharing routers.

In all cases you are limited in what will "go faster" without the ISP providing bonding.

if you had an old PC or a netbook with 3 ethernets, then that would be easier to "practice on" with Linux. In theory you can do it just by adding and configuring packages in Ubuntu and the actual basic IPtables and network setup is identical except on the Router you configure the 5 ports of the ethernet switch as 3 IP address using VLAN configuration and 2 ports are then logically separate for the two modems.

Going the Netbook or old PC route the 3 ethernet ports are separate to start with so there is one less configuration (the VLAN), otherwise identical.

OpenWRT and DD_WRT don't have anything not in ordinary desktop linux / ubuntu, the reverese, they are "cut down" linux distros to bare minimum with remote Web page administration instead of local console or Desktop.

Bear in mind the ISP won't support you (Digiweb might if you paid enough ) and if you are stuck the OpenWRT forums is best bet.

You can't rely on me or Sponge Bob as you're not actually buying anything off us.

ingen

watty wrote: »

The edimax seems the same as the Dlink SpongeBob suggested. It should do aggregation/loadbalancing with two modems in "bridge" mode. I setup an eircom Netopia last weekin Bridge Mode with Dlink ethernet router as it's built in wireless wasn't working. All the eircom settings are typed in as if it's a DSL modem when the "bridged" modem is connected to WAN port.

But I have not tested that Edimax or the Dlink Sponge Bob suggests


The WRT54GL-EU "out of the box" only has one ethernet WAN port, but in fact all 5 ports are on the same swtich and it uses VLAN, so you can even have 4 WAN ports (4 modems) and one LAN port to Switch.

It is supported on OpenWRT.
http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt54gl
Read
http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/installing

If you are not familar with Linux or such custom firmware, then buy the Dlink Sponge Bob suggested or the edimax you found. If the documents make sense on the OpenWRT site (DD-WRT is similar but usually less advanced as it's the commercial fork) then go for the Linksys

It should be possible to do it with the linksys wrt54gl, but you are on your own compared with the "off the shelf" load sharing routers.

In all cases you are limited in what will "go faster" without the ISP providing bonding.

if you had an old PC or a netbook with 3 ethernets, then that would be easier to "practice on" with Linux. In theory you can do it just by adding and configuring packages in Ubuntu and the actual basic IPtables and network setup is identical except on the Router you configure the 5 ports of the ethernet switch as 3 IP address using VLAN configuration and 2 ports are then logically separate for the two modems.

Going the Netbook or old PC route the 3 ethernet ports are separate to start with so there is one less configuration (the VLAN), otherwise identical.

OpenWRT and DD_WRT don't have anything not in ordinary desktop linux / ubuntu, the reverese, they are "cut down" linux distros to bare minimum with remote Web page administration instead of local console or Desktop.

Bear in mind the ISP won't support you (Digiweb might if you paid enough ) and if you are stuck the OpenWRT forums is best bet.

You can't rely on me or Sponge Bob as you're not actually buying anything off us.

i havent decided what road to take yet, just sounding out options at the minute. i have a fair amount of gear here from pc's to laptops to sammy netbooks! the nc10 is great. so a few options open to me.

there are guides on youtube for the linksys router. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBoJ12ByutY its the same router i found on komplett! however he is referring to MLPPP

thanks for the input so far guys,

ingen

ordered a second line into the house at the weekend, i have a 16 core eircom cable coming into the house so loads of free wires.... however i got this email from eircom this morning



quote
Thank you for your recent order for eircom telephone service on eircom.ie
Our records show there is currently telephone service at this address with another licensed service operator. If you wish to apply for eircom telephone service this line must be ceased. Please contact your Solicitor or landlord to have the previous occupant line ceased.
If you need to identify who the licensed operator is please contact 19800.
Thank you for using www.eircom.ie








the thing is that i am the eircom account holder on the existing account
and also requested this too to be moved from vodafone to eircom..



have they a new policy of only one phone line per house??


no wonder they are loosing customers! and this thread is perfect for the ireland offline forum

watty

Send that to Comreg by registered mail and complain!

It's none of their business who you have other accounts with.

That is atrociously anti-competitive!

ingen

watty wrote: »

Send that to Comreg by registered mail and complain!

It's none of their business who you have other accounts with.

That is atrociously anti-competitive!

crazy stuff.
no wonder they are loosing customers.

i am kind of inclined to ditch the land line now altogether.

Sponge Bob

Failing to supply a new line, on request, is a breach of eircoms Universal Service Obligation. email Comreg ( info@ I think) about this breach of the USO and they will set eircom straight

ingen

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Failing to supply a new line, on request, is a breach of eircoms Universal Service Obligation. email Comreg ( info@ I think) about this breach of the USO and they will set eircom straight

have emailed comreg, and competition authority.

eircom just cancelled the order, cant believe it.

watty

Write letter. Oddly they take actual bits of paper more seriously.

I ordered ISDN once (900m from exchange)as THEY recommended it to get past my 19kbps erratic speed. They said when approx something would happen. Time passed and nothing. Rang and they knew nothing.

Eventually by being persistent they admitted they had cancelled the order without telling me. They explained that there was no spare shelves unless enough people ordered to be worth adding a shelf. Native ISDN exchange that uses more expensive cards for POTS (analogue) than ISDN.

I had been telling them for years that the line was faulty as (a) it had done 33k when I moved in and (b) I could hear the noise and (c) Only 900m by their reckoning from C.O. They claimed line tested and fine. I told them it is IMPOSSIBLE to fully test a line without test gear at both ends (I was originally a Comms Engineer, had been trained by BBC to test lines and had designed POTS and ISDN gear for BT and other International customers from China to Panama)

They then decided to actually send someone to test line. Within in 3mins he announced that the line was faulty. He thought it was connection at the local street cabinet, but replaced the short length of underground 2 pair cable from it to me. I then had 42kbps. That had taken 5 years.

6 months later I got Digiweb Metro and Ditched phone line. I have saved over €1800 since then on line rental and call charges.

ingen

watty wrote: »

Write letter. Oddly they take actual bits of paper more seriously.

I ordered ISDN once (900m from exchange)as THEY recommended it to get past my 19kbps erratic speed. They said when approx something would happen. Time passed and nothing. Rang and they knew nothing.

Eventually by being persistent they admitted they had cancelled the order without telling me. They explained that there was no spare shelves unless enough people ordered to be worth adding a shelf. Native ISDN exchange that uses more expensive cards for POTS (analogue) than ISDN.

I had been telling them for years that the line was faulty as (a) it had done 33k when I moved in and (b) I could hear the noise and (c) Only 900m by their reckoning from C.O. They claimed line tested and fine. I told them it is IMPOSSIBLE to fully test a line without test gear at both ends (I was originally a Comms Engineer, had been trained by BBC to test lines and had designed POTS and ISDN gear for BT and other International customers from China to Panama)

They then decided to actually send someone to test line. Within in 3mins he announced that the line was faulty. He thought it was connection at the local street cabinet, but replaced the short length of underground 2 pair cable from it to me. I then had 42kbps. That had taken 5 years.

6 months later I got Digiweb Metro and Ditched phone line. I have saved over €1800 since then on line rental and call charges.

hi watty , just heard from Irish broadband, their breeze service is available to me now, 4mb/4mb €55 monthly.. is this service any good?

watty

You mean Imagine.

Yes, it's quite good. Far better than Ripwave or the Nomadic WiMax replacing it. But in some areas they seem to be phasing out Breeze too (Some later Breeze products are actually Fixed WiMax and makers of Breeze also do Mobile/Nomadic WiMax, but Imagine is using Mobile/Nomadic Motorola modems, not Alvarion Breeze).

The latency, range and download isn't as good as Metro, but it's got good/better upload.

ingen

watty wrote: »

You mean Imagine.

Yes, it's quite good. Far better than Ripwave or the Nomadic WiMax replacing it. But in some areas they seem to be phasing out Breeze too (Some later Breeze products are actually Fixed WiMax and makers of Breeze also do Mobile/Nomadic WiMax, but Imagine is using Mobile/Nomadic Motorola modems, not Alvarion Breeze).

The latency, range and download isn't as good as Metro, but it's got good/better upload.

ordered it a few hrs ago was told no problem its available to me, just got a message that order cancelled as they cannot provide due to line of sight issue. engineers say problem with los.

damn,

Sponge Bob

Net1 do a 6 down and 6 up service. Good rep too.

http://www.net1.ie/coveragemap.html

http://www.net1.ie/packages.php

vampire of kilmainham

ingen wrote: »

a lot of South Drogheda ( Dublin Road area) cannot get higher than 4~5MB DSL speed due to the length of the eircom phone lines, yet the likes of digiweb metro, ( line of sight issues), UPC, NTL are all unavailable.

:o midband is available but is not reliable.

so what is one to do? seems like DSL is the only alternative Eircom/Vodafone
for any sort of speed.

eircom wont assist in supplying Bonded DSL, or supporting MLPPP , and buying 2 lines and 2 broadband packages,

what is one to do

its 2010 for god sake.:mad::mad:

Iv got broadband from CHORUS NTL or just CHORUS as they are calld now you can get 5mb 15mb or 30mb iv got 15mb and fint it very good had no hastle at all got a great deal last year digi tv phone and broadband all for 57euro a month and no line rental they are using fibreoptics which makes everything clear and no i dont work for chorus...

ingen

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Net1 do a 6 down and 6 up service. Good rep too.

http://www.net1.ie/coveragemap.html

http://www.net1.ie/packages.php

hi yea i called net1 earlier today, nice people to talk to , very helpful, they are calling out to me durning the week, fingers crossed that they can cover me, they have a few masts one in collon, one in bellewstown, hopefully i can get signal from one of those.

i emailed the sales rep in eircom and quoted the universal service obligation, and i had a call back in about 3 mins, offering to reinstate the order.

I told them forget it. if i can get the fixed wireless my land line is so gone!


what is the range of the fixed wireless antenna?

watty

It depends on the technology, power, size of aerial / dish. I don't know what Net1 are using.

lucernarian

Rule of thumb, the fewer thick deciduous trees near your house, the better. Also, if people have Chorus (UPC) aerials that aren't mounted on tall, like over 1.5m chimney masts then I'd say you'd have a hope of getting Net1 from Collon. I can't remember what sort of views there would be between WH and either Bellewstown or Mt. Oriel. I expect coverage from Bellewstown would be fine, once you're not too close (less than 50 metres) to the woods at the Boyne Valley Hotel.

As for Chorus NTL, no one has ever bothered their behind installing any sort of cable network in Drogheda when people can generally put up an aerial which picks up Irish and Northern channels with relative ease.

I could have sworn I've seen Digiweb metro antennae on the Dublin road...

cgarvey

Moved IrelandOffline > Broadband

jay93

:eek::eek: 2mb max well that sucks..even in drogheda thats just bad form now eircom cant even get propr services to the most built up areas of ireland how crap are they!even here in duleek the lines can handle 16mb+ and this is a way way smaller area than the town