Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

D'Agger

Shedite27 wrote: »

There's no way it was 15k. Last final I was at was the Nemo one last year and I'd say there was 3k tops.

Just checked twitter there - Over 8k for football & 11k for Hurling I believe, must have been adding them subconsciously! The attendance for the Kerry football final was 6,700 in Fitzgerald Stadium

Cape Clear

D'Agger wrote: »

Just checked twitter there - Over 8k for football & 11k for Hurling I believe, must have been adding them subconsciously! The attendance for the Kerry football final was 6,700 in Fitzgerald Stadium

Sounds more plausible in any case these games would be far more suited to Pairc Ui Rinn based on those attendances.

Mushy

clerk wrote: »

A Munster vs. non-Irish team Semi/Quarter final is a possible match if it makes financial sense and all parties agree and presuming they think it would be a sellout in Cork. l'd imagine even that scenario would have considerable objections from many in terms of moving the match from Thomond, albeit Munster could do with the money so who knows.

I think the rule here is that, when you get a home semi final, it can't be played in you're home ground. So Thomand can't be used anyway. PUC would be a good fit then, as it would keep the game in Munster. Whether the irfu would agree is another thing altogether!

johnnyryan89

Mushy wrote: »

I think the rule here is that, when you get a home semi final, it can't be played in you're home ground. So Thomand can't be used anyway. PUC would be a good fit then, as it would keep the game in Munster. Whether the irfu would agree is another thing altogether!

No I think your stadium has to have a certain attendance before it can stage a semi final match and the old Thomond Park wasn't big enough and since the redevelopment the two semi finals Munster have gotten to was against Leinster and Ulster so from an IRFU pov made sense to move them to Dublin especially the Leinster match at Croke Park.

I'd love if Munster could use PUC once it's redeveloped for big games in Europe but can't see it happening as I'm sure Munster could have enquired about the Gaelic Grounds all the time and keep the games in Limerick but they didn't and it's easier to hold them in rugby stadiums instead of negotiating with the GAA.

lbj666

Mushy wrote: »

I think the rule here is that, when you get a home semi final, it can't be played in you're home ground. So Thomand can't be used anyway. PUC would be a good fit then, as it would keep the game in Munster. Whether the irfu would agree is another thing altogether!

There is a 50,000 capacity covered all seater stadium in Dublin that the IRFU jointly own and don't have to pay rent plus have commercial agreements, sponsor deals including naming rights etc. You are talking about losing half your potential revenue moving it to PUIC at least.

I never see it happening , even if they drew leinster in a semi they would be made to play it in the Aviva despite it being a ground leinster are more familiar with.

For a similar reason the national team are not going to be moving out of the Aviva , they haven't had a home game outside of there since the naming rights deal ( a world cup would be a different story )

lbj666

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

No I think your stadium has to have a certain attendance before it can stage a semi final match and the old Thomond Park wasn't big enough and since the redevelopment the two semi finals Munster have gotten to was against Leinster and Ulster so from an IRFU pov made sense to move them to Dublin especially the Leinster match at Croke Park.

I'd love if Munster could use PUC once it's redeveloped for big games in Europe but can't see it happening as I'm sure Munster could have enquired about the Gaelic Grounds all the time and keep the games in Limerick but they didn't and it's easier to hold them in rugby stadiums instead of negotiating with the GAA.

No it has to be a neutral venue in the same country over a certain capacity, if thomond met capacity requirements they still couldn't have a semi final there.

Mushy

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Mushy wrote: »

I think the rule here is that, when you get a home semi final, it can't be played in you're home ground. So Thomand can't be used anyway. PUC would be a good fit then, as it would keep the game in Munster. Whether the irfu would agree is another thing altogether!

No I think your stadium has to have a certain attendance before it can stage a semi final match and the old Thomond Park wasn't big enough and since the redevelopment the two semi finals Munster have gotten to was against Leinster and Ulster so from an IRFU pov made sense to move them to Dublin especially the Leinster match at Croke Park.

I'd love if Munster could use PUC once it's redeveloped for big games in Europe but can't see it happening as I'm sure Munster could have enquired about the Gaelic Grounds all the time and keep the games in Limerick but they didn't and it's easier to hold them in rugby stadiums instead of negotiating with the GAA.

Who had the home tie in those semis? Ulster, like munster, wouldn't have an all seater stadium, so may have been pushed by the IRFU. I agree with you that can't see it happening, although it would be great!

Mushy

lbj666 wrote: »

Mushy wrote: »

I think the rule here is that, when you get a home semi final, it can't be played in you're home ground. So Thomand can't be used anyway. PUC would be a good fit then, as it would keep the game in Munster. Whether the irfu would agree is another thing altogether!

There is a 50,000 capacity covered all seater stadium in Dublin that the IRFU jointly own and don't have to pay rent plus have commercial agreements, sponsor deals including naming rights etc. You are talking about losing half your potential revenue moving it to PUIC at least.

I never see it happening , even if they drew leinster in a semi they would be made to play it in the Aviva despite it being a ground leinster are more familiar with.

For a similar reason the national team are not going to be moving out of the Aviva , they haven't had a home game outside of there since the naming rights deal ( a world cup would be a different story )

I agree I can't see it happening because of the Aviva, but if Munster kicked up a fuss it may be required. Be a last minute job more than anything planned for.

Also, on phone so can't multiquote!

johnnyryan89

Mushy wrote: »

Who had the home tie in those semis? Ulster, like munster, wouldn't have an all seater stadium, so may have been pushed by the IRFU. I agree with you that can't see it happening, although it would be great!

Actually scrape that Munster and Ulster was a quarter final game in Thomand, Munster and Leinster were the only Irish teams to meet in the semis.

lbj666 wrote: »

No it has to be a neutral venue in the same country over a certain capacity, if thomond met capacity requirements they still couldn't have a semi final there.

Are they the new rules since the change to the Champions Cup or have they been like that all the time? Cause if I'm not mistaken Leinster played a semi final at home in the Aviva

case885

johnnyryan89 wrote:

Are they the new rules since the change to the Champions Cup or have they been like that all the time? Cause if I'm not mistaken Leinster played a semi final at home in the Aviva

It's always been like that, the Aviva isn't Leinsters home stadium so they're allowed to use it.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Guys, lbj666 already touched on this. Why would Munster move a game to PUC, only to pay the GAA a large % of the income from the game?
It'd be like the GAA moving a Championship match to Thomand, and lose a % of gate receipts to the Munster Branch. It's not going to happen.

Cape Clear

Vienna Rancid Creature wrote: »

Guys, lbj666 already touched on this. Why would Munster move a game to PUC, only to pay the GAA a large % of the income from the game?
It'd be like the GAA moving a Championship match to Thomand, and lose a % of gate receipts to the Munster Branch. It's not going to happen.

Also consider the Limerick Gaelic Grounds would be the most likely venue if Munster were ever to play in a GAA stadium

sheff the ref

Cape Clear wrote: »

Also consider the Limerick Gaelic Grounds would be the most likely venue if Munster were ever to play in a GAA stadium

There are corporate facilities in Pairc Ui Chaoimh which are not at the Gaelic Grounds. Besides the move to Pairc Ui Chaoimh would be less controversial than a move to the neighbouring rival stadium in Limerick which is within sight of Thomond Park. I am sure a deal would be thrashed out whereby Munster Rugby got an extra slice making the move financially worthwhile and Cork GAA also got a slice

kub

sheff the ref wrote: »

There are corporate facilities in Pairc Ui Chaoimh which are not at the Gaelic Grounds. Besides the move to Pairc Ui Chaoimh would be less controversial than a move to the neighbouring rival stadium in Limerick which is within sight of Thomond Park. I am sure a deal would be thrashed out whereby Munster Rugby got an extra slice making the move financially worthwhile and Cork GAA also got a slice

No way will that ever happen, The IRFU is owed millions by Munster for a loan they got for re developing Thomond Park, therefore both Munster and the IRFU have a vested interest in all of the funds generated in Thomond Park, staying in their coffers rather than a % going to GAA.

Shedite27

This has got to be up there with the most pointless discussions on boards

farmerjj

Shedite27 wrote: »

This has got to be up there with the most pointless discussions on boards

Thought I was only the only thinking that:-)

PreCocious

The Gaelic Ground stadium is poor and isn't a rival for Thomond Park.

Whatever about matches one thing is clear is that this stadium will need to be in very regular use in order to pay for itself. It will need paid management staff or else it will become just like it's predecessor.

I imagine we'll see occasions where GAA matches lose out to corporate functions. The one pitch Centre of Excellence will struggle to cater for all the county teams, local schools and corporate events.

Cape Clear

PreCocious wrote: »

The Gaelic Ground stadium is poor and isn't a rival for Thomond Park.

Whatever about matches one thing is clear is that this stadium will need to be in very regular use in order to pay for itself. It will need paid management staff or else it will become just like it's predecessor.

I imagine we'll see occasions where GAA matches lose out to corporate functions. The one pitch Centre of Excellence will struggle to cater for all the county teams, local schools and corporate events.

In reality this will be little more than a warm up pitch.

ScrubsfanChris

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Thomond Park is big enough to host quarter finals but not so sure about semi finals since the redevelopment as both semi finals Munster got to in 09 and 12 were against Irish teams so we're always gonna be played in Dublin.

I'm sure they had the option of using the Gaelic Grounds before the redevelopment but never asked about it so more than likely the IRFU wants them to maybe stick to IRFU stadiums. I'd love for Munster to have home semi finals as actual home semi finals and not travel to Dublin but financially it probably makes more since holding them in Dublin than renting out a GAA stadium.

You aren't allowed play European semi-final in your own stadium anyway if you get home advantage.

PUC is a nice thought, but unfortunately for the foreseeable feature it looks like Aviva is the choice when/if Munster get a home semi.

Quintis

https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/999051b9-072a-4579-be72-0bcb9f908f08-original.jpeg

PTH2009

could the Waterford vs Tipp (if Tipp beat Cork) munster senior hurling semi final on Sunday June 18th take place here ???

I think both the Munster Senior Football and Hurling finals (July 2nd and July 9th) are be played in PUC dis year no matter what teams are in them ???

Dont think U2 will be playing there this year, the first concert will prob take place possibily Summer 2018

sheff the ref

Cape Clear wrote: »

In reality this will be little more than a warm up pitch.

And a pitch for Intercounty Challenge games...........

It certainly wont be for training unless there are summer conditions

clerk

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/champions-cup/croke-park-could-host-bumper-champions-cup-semifinal-this-year-35377888.html

Croke Park could host bumper Champions Cup semi-final this year

Croke Park could host a Champions Cup semi-final if results go the way of the Irish provinces in the last eight.

EPCR chiefs are considering GAA HQ as a potential venue should any pf the Irish sides meet each other in the last four of the competition, due to be played in late April.
Croker is able to seat 30,000 more fans than the Aviva Stadium and EPCR chiefs will bring this into the equation when they choose the stadiums for the semi-finals.

"It is very interesting and I certainly think that we should go for the best possible solution," said EPCR chairman Simon Halliday in quotes reported by the Irish Daily Mail.
"If you have an all-Irish semi-final and we knew there was demand for the type of crowd that would fill Croke Park, why wouldn't we?

"I must tell you I haven't investigated it yet, but it certainly is an amazing place. If we could I think it would be a wonderful thing."

KCAccidental

That sounds like the words of a guy who hasn't had a little chat with IRFU about their stadium debt and commercial deals on the aviva

Shedite27

The only bit you need to read.....

clerk wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie...........

Cape Clear

KCAccidental wrote: »

That sounds like the words of a guy who hasn't had a little chat with IRFU about their stadium debt and commercial deals on the aviva

Would the commercial deal with the Aviva preclude an EPCR game being played at another venue? I know the FAI needed to negotiate a derogation to play Belarus in Turners Cross before the Euros last year?

KCAccidental

Cape Clear wrote: »

Would the commercial deal with the Aviva preclude an EPCR game being played at another venue? I know the FAI needed to negotiate a derogation to play Belarus in Turners Cross before the Euros last year?

considering the provinces rely on the IRFU to pay some players wages on central contracts and they have a contract on use of the stadium with the sponsors. I'd imagine the Aviva would have to be used to claw back the debt on the stadium, unless there was a major windfall due from using croker.

Mumha

Cape Clear wrote: »

Would the commercial deal with the Aviva preclude an EPCR game being played at another venue? I know the FAI needed to negotiate a derogation to play Belarus in Turners Cross before the Euros last year?

Absolutely not, since the EPCR is now controlled by the English and French, they'll go to Croker if they think they can fill it. The Aviva is a contract with the IRFU, not the EPCR. It will come down to which is the more profitable for them.

Mumha

KCAccidental wrote: »

considering the provinces rely on the IRFU to pay some players wages on central contracts and they have a contract on use of the stadium with the sponsors. I'd imagine the Aviva would have to be used to claw back the debt on the stadium, unless there was a major windfall due from using croker.

There is no IRFU debt on the Aviva.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/irfu-chief-does-not-believe-munster-can-make-debt-repayments-1.2723985

Unlike the FAI who still owe €34.75 million on the Aviva Stadium, the IRFU paid off, up front in 2010, the amount they owed for the stadium redevelopment following the successful sale of corporate boxes and 10-year tickets.

Cape Clear

Mumha wrote: »

Absolutely not, since the EPCR is now controlled by the English and French, they'll go to Croker if they think they can fill it. The Aviva is a contract with the IRFU, not the EPCR. It will come down to which is the more profitable for them.

What dates would these potential matches be played?