Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

Mumha

lawred2 wrote: »

there plans for this to be used for other sports?

The information I have is that it will be made available for other sports (especially Munster Rugby). All European Cup home pool matches had to be played in Thomond Park for 10 years, under an agreement for the sale of 10 year seat tickets, back in 2007/8. That ends next season, and it will be interesting to see if those running Munster Rugby enter into a similar handcuffed deal with a new 10 year scheme, or potential Stadium naming rights. In any case, QFs/SFs could be played there, if the new PUC was available to non-GAA sports. That's where the capture of RWC2023 could move this process along a lot faster though.

johnnyryan89

Mumha wrote: »

The information I have is that it will be made available for other sports (especially Munster Rugby). All European Cup home pool matches had to be played in Thomond Park for 10 years, under an agreement for the sale of 10 year seat tickets, back in 2007/8. That ends next season, and it will be interesting to see if those running Munster Rugby enter into a similar handcuffed deal with a new 10 year scheme, or potential Stadium naming rights. In any case, QFs/SFs could be played there, if the new PUC was available to non-GAA sports. That's where the capture of RWC2023 could move this process along a lot faster though.

They've already announced renewals for the ten year scheme http://munsterrugby.ie/2017/03/30/10-year-tickets-now-open-for-renewals/

And unless Cork GAA were willing to let Munster use the stadium free of charge I doubt they'll be moving any big games from Limerick to Cork and all semi finals will always be played in the Aviva.

Mumha

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

They've already announced renewals for the ten year scheme http://munsterrugby.ie/2017/03/30/10-year-tickets-now-open-for-renewals/

And unless Cork GAA were willing to let Munster use the stadium free of charge I doubt they'll be moving any big games from Limerick to Cork and all semi finals will always be played in the Aviva.

That's interesting thanks. It's more nuanced than 10 years ago, where it specifically said

What you get each year for the next 10 years?
Each Ten Year ticket entitles the purchaser to one seat in the
newly developed East Stand
• Heineken European Rugby Cup pool match ticket in
Thomond Park (1 ticket per match for 3 matches).
• Celtic League pool match ticket in Thomond Park
(4 matches).
• Option to purchase ticket for any other representative match
run by Munster Rugby in Thomond Park (Subject to advance
bookings).
• Option to purchase ticket for any other home match run by
Munster Rugby moved to a larger ground (e.g. ¼ finals etc.).
• Option to renew if scheme extended.

Whereas now it says

• Premium / Category A seating in the East or West Stand for all Munster Rugby pool stage European Cup games and PRO12 games in Thomond Park

My source is very good that there is agreement on this, and it would allow the likes of Leinster in the PRO12 to come back to Cork, as well as knockout games. Don't forget that it's the EPCR will decide where Semi finals will be played.

johnnyryan89

Mumha wrote: »

That's interesting thanks. It's more nuanced than 10 years ago, where it specifically said



Whereas now it says



My source is very good that there is agreement on this, and it would allow the likes of Leinster in the PRO12 to come back to Cork, as well as knockout games. Don't forget that it's the EPCR will decide where Semi finals will be played.

Did you also forget to add in the rest of the benefits, mainly the second one

Guaranteed option to purchase your seat for any knock out stages in Thomond Park

And why would the EPCR move a semi final to a smaller stadium, if they had the option to use a GAA stadium then I'm sure they'd look at Croke if available and not a stadium which is smaller than the Aviva.

Cape Clear

Mumha wrote: »

That's interesting thanks. It's more nuanced than 10 years ago, where it specifically said



Whereas now it says



My source is very good that there is agreement on this, and it would allow the likes of Leinster in the PRO12 to come back to Cork, as well as knockout games. Don't forget that it's the EPCR will decide where Semi finals will be played.

Even if your source was Frank Murphy I'd still doubt it will ever happen.

Mumha

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Did you also forget to add in the rest of the benefits, mainly the second one

Guaranteed option to purchase your seat for any knock out stages in Thomond Park

And why would the EPCR move a semi final to a smaller stadium, if they had the option to use a GAA stadium then I'm sure they'd look at Croke if available and not a stadium which is smaller than the Aviva.

And what if they don't play those knockout stages in Thomond ? That would be as opposed to

All home knock out matches will be held in Thomond Park and you are guaranteed the option to purchase your seat

Bit of a difference ?

Re the EPCR, I was responding to your statement that "all semi finals will always be played in the Aviva.". Croke Park IS available, and I'm sure if it was a Munster v Leinster SF, there would have been enormous public pressure to have it played there, rather than the Aviva. The point I'm making is that it doesn't always have to be the Aviva, as you contended. As for the size of PUC, the EPCR/ERC have a long history of not going for the obvious !!!

Mumha

Cape Clear wrote: »

Even if your source was Frank Murphy I'd still doubt it will ever happen.

I'd love if we were having this conversation in 2005 about Croke Park !!! Frank Murphy is above all things, a pragmatist. Stade de Franc has always been his baby, and if he gets someone else to help pay for it, all the better. The fact that PUC is in the list for the RWC2023 bid, should give us all enough information that (subject to winning the bid) rugby will be played in PUC, all I'm saying is that it will be a long lasting relationship.

PTH2009

i wonder will ye get many concerts in the summer time down there. Would MCD/Aiken be willing to bring big names to PUC with the Marquee just a few mins away ??. Loved Bruce Springsteen in 2013 in the old place

ScrubsfanChris

PTH2009 wrote: »

i wonder will ye get many concerts in the summer time down there. Would MCD/Aiken be willing to bring big names to PUC with the Marquee just a few mins away ??. Loved Bruce Springsteen in 2013 in the old place

I think it will keep going like it does until the event centre is finished in 2030 or whatever. You'd need a big name like the Boss or U2 for PUC.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Munster won't be playing matches in the new stadium. How many games have Leinster played in Croker?
Thomand will be used for European games and some of the bigger Pro12 games, and Musgrave for a number of Pro12 games. Aviva for potential semi finals.

The_Kew_Tour

Passed the stadium a few times.

Its looks impressive but I cant help but feel its another "what could have been".

The smaller covered stand looks smaller then what was there before it and the design looks but all over the place.

If it had been built 20 years ago I say it be fine, but I think it had more potential then it did.

But I could easily change my mind once it opens

namloc1980

Mumha wrote: »

I'd love if we were having this conversation in 2005 about Croke Park !!! Frank Murphy is above all things, a pragmatist. Stade de Franc has always been his baby, and if he gets someone else to help pay for it, all the better. The fact that PUC is in the list for the RWC2023 bid, should give us all enough information that (subject to winning the bid) rugby will be played in PUC, all I'm saying is that it will be a long lasting relationship.

It would need a rule change at the highest level of the GAA. Frank or Cork GAA can't just decide to open up the stadium to rugby on their own. Also I don't see the incentive for Munster to go to the Pairc. They'd have to pay rental to use it when they have their own stadium.

Joey Jo-Jo Junior

There's no way Munster pool matches will be played here. QF, also doubtful.

They can't play SFs in their home stadium so SF is a possibility.

AugustusMinimus

The whole point of maybe playing future semi finals here is simply to appease the cork fans and to let them know that the team hasn't completely abandoned them.

It wasn't that long ago that every second Heineken Cup match was played in Cork and that every second match against an international touring side was played in Cork.

The reason the famous All Blacks match was played in Limerick is simply because it was their turn to host the touring side.

All of this seems to have been lost to history sadly.

PTH2009

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The whole point of maybe playing future semi finals here is simply to appease the cork fans and to let them know that the team hasn't completely abandoned them.

It wasn't that long ago that every second Heineken Cup match was played in Cork and that every second match against an international touring side was played in Cork.

The reason the famous All Blacks match was played in Limerick is simply because it was their turn to host the touring side.

All of this seems to have been lost to history sadly.

Can't remember ever hearing of a Heineken cup game being played in Cork ???

Do u have a list of Heineken cup games that were played in cork ???

We would take a stadium like yours in Waterford. Come up and see what excuses of stadiums we have lol. The RSC is OK but Walsh Park and Fraher Field are a different story lol

j8wk2feszrnpao

PTH2009 wrote: »

Can't remember ever hearing of a Heineken cup game being played in Cork ???

Do u have a list of Heineken cup games that were played in cork ???

We would take a stadium like yours in Waterford. Come up and see what excuses of stadiums we have lol. The RSC is OK but Walsh Park and Fraher Field are a different story lol

There was rotation of games for HEC matches, it may be 2005 when they last played a game in Cork. But they needed to establish one base of operations; once Thomand got the upgrade to a large capacity, it was always going to be limerick.
I do remember watching the win over Aus back in the early 90's in Musgrave.

AugustusMinimus

PTH2009 wrote: »

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The whole point of maybe playing future semi finals here is simply to appease the cork fans and to let them know that the team hasn't completely abandoned them.

It wasn't that long ago that every second Heineken Cup match was played in Cork and that every second match against an international touring side was played in Cork.

The reason the famous All Blacks match was played in Limerick is simply because it was their turn to host the touring side.

All of this seems to have been lost to history sadly.

Can't remember ever hearing of a Heineken cup game being played in Cork ???

Do u have a list of Heineken cup games that were played in cork ???

We would take a stadium like yours in Waterford. Come up and see what excuses of stadiums we have lol. The RSC is OK but Walsh Park and Fraher Field are a different story lol

It was every second match up until 2003.  In 1998 all Heineken Cup games were played in Cork.
The argument for 2004 was that Thomond had a slightly higher capacity and so all games were moved there.  
It was still every second game for Celtic League matches but as you can see, we now barely get any.

Mumha

PTH2009 wrote: »

Can't remember ever hearing of a Heineken cup game being played in Cork ???

Do u have a list of Heineken cup games that were played in cork ???

We would take a stadium like yours in Waterford. Come up and see what excuses of stadiums we have lol. The RSC is OK but Walsh Park and Fraher Field are a different story lol

Here you go

12/10/96 15:00 PD Munster Rugby Munster Rugby 23 - 5 Milan ERC Musgrave Park 1,500
27/9/97 15:00 PD Munster Rugby Munster Rugby 32 - 37 Cardiff Blues Musgrave Park 5,000
19/9/98 14:30 PB Munster Rugby Munster Rugby 20 - 13 Petrarca Rugby Musgrave Park 2,000
26/9/98 14:30 PB Munster Rugby Munster Rugby 34 - 10 Neath Neath Musgrave Park 1,500
31/10/98 14:30 PB Munster Rugby Munster Rugby 13 - 5 Perpignan Musgrave Park 4,000
18/12/99 14:30 P4 Munster Rugby Munster Rugby 23 - 5 Colomiers Musgrave Park 8,500
20/1/01 14:30 P4 Munster Rugby Munster Rugby 21 - 11 Castres Olympique Musgrave Park 9,000
3/11/01 15:00 P4 Munster Rugby Munster Rugby 40 - 6 Bridgend Musgrave Park 8,500
6/12/02 19:30 P2 Munster Rugby Munster Rugby 64 - 0 Viadana Musgrave Park 6,500

mire

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Join the list of all the others with the same point. Getting boring.

I'll reserve the right to provide my opinion on this project, in which I've an interest. I'd rather not join a cheerleading discussion that you seem to encourage. Would you really prefer contributions only from those people who like the design??

Mumha

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It was every second match up until 2003.  In 1998 all Heineken Cup games were played in Cork.
The argument for 2004 was that Thomond had a slightly higher capacity and so all games were moved there.  
It was still every second game for Celtic League matches but as you can see, we now barely get any.

Yes the "slightly higher capacity" excuse was used alright, and the blame for how that happened lies with a cretin from Cork who unfortunately became Munster Branch President when they were decided on replacing the grass terraces, and his enlightened argument for only building the tiny terraces we have today was, "sure why would we need anything bigger ?" !!!

I would love to see the South terrace replaced with a stand that looped around to the West stand, as that's where most of the wind/rain comes from. Not much chance of that unfortunately, unless some rich benefactor comes along. Given the continuing contribution of Cork rugby players towards Munster Rugby, it would be short sighted in the extreme not to bring some big games back on a regular basis. It would be a walking billboard to have the buzz of a big game.

I realise some might say that it would do the GAA harm, but I would hope most people can see the mutual benefits for Rugby and GAA to continue their cooperation. My own young fella plays Hurling & Football and Rugby, and about 10 of his squad play on the same team in all 3 codes, so essentially they are together, playing and training, 5 days a week. That benefits everyone, plus if they are going to the new PUC for Hurling, Football and Rugby, it only is a positive for Cork GAA to be seen as the centre for sport in the City.

Ludo

Cant see Munster ever playing in PUC. Or anywhere else in Cork for anything other than a few Pro12 games from now on. No problem with it either. They have a stadium...use it.

AugustusMinimus

Ludo wrote: »

Cant see Munster ever playing in PUC. Or anywhere else in Cork for anything other than a few Pro12 games from now on. No problem with it either. They have a stadium...use it.

And that will be to the long term detriment of Munster Branch.

Ludo

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

And that will be to the long term detriment of Munster Branch.

Don't think it will really...but sure, who knows.

Cape Clear

Mumha wrote: »

I'd love if we were having this conversation in 2005 about Croke Park !!! Frank Murphy is above all things, a pragmatist. Stade de Franc has always been his baby, and if he gets someone else to help pay for it, all the better. The fact that PUC is in the list for the RWC2023 bid, should give us all enough information that (subject to winning the bid) rugby will be played in PUC, all I'm saying is that it will be a long lasting relationship.

Utter bull Frankeen has the money in his arse pocket. There will be no long term relationship.

SomeFool

Mumha wrote: »

Given the continuing contribution of Cork rugby players towards Munster Rugby, it would be short sighted in the extreme not to bring some big games back on a regular basis. It would be a walking billboard to have the buzz of a big game.
.

Off topic I know but Glasgow and Ospreys in the Pro 12 this season were great games to get, quality opposition. The reality is for Munster rugby to survive as a business at the moment they have to keep the interpro and European games in Limerick. Always thought a Heineken game in Killarney would have been a great idea though! Would Munster make more moving a game to PUC? Would they sell the tickets necessary to cover the rental and make a better margin than in Thomond?

Mumha

Cape Clear wrote: »

Utter bull Frankeen has the money in his arse pocket. There will be no long term relationship.

No, at 73 years of age, long term there won't be a Frankie !

Mumha

SomeFool wrote: »

Off topic I know but Glasgow and Ospreys in the Pro 12 this season were great games to get, quality opposition. The reality is for Munster rugby to survive as a business at the moment they have to keep the interpro and European games in Limerick. Always thought a Heineken game in Killarney would have been a great idea though! Would Munster make more moving a game to PUC? Would they sell the tickets necessary to cover the rental and make a better margin than in Thomond?

There's no argument that as things stand, they have to play the big games in Limerick, but other teams would kill for what we have in having two major player bases in one "region". This debate has been done to death but with the major population base in Cork, rugby would be stupid to walk away from the competition between themselves, soccer and gaa. They need to be showing what they have here as well. They'll never match the GAA in Cork, but they don't have to either, they work much better with the GAA than the antipathy that exists between the GAA and Soccer. Even with largely B teams playing in the Cork Pro12 games, they are filling MP, but they need big European games back. And for that matter, I too would love to see them play in big grounds like Fitzgerald and Semple Stadiums. Re rental, people said the same about the GAA renting Croke Park. There's a deal to be done, and don't forget there are 20,000 extra places for MR to make a profit and Cork GAA to get their rent.

clerk

It's not really all that complicated all the european cup games will be in Thomond but the European semi (if they have a home draw) cannot be in Thomond.

Munster might have a home semi once every 5 years we'll say for arguments sakes.

It would be much easier for Munster fans to get to Pairc Ui Chaoimh than the Aviva and it would be more of a home atmosphere and a reward to all the Cork supporters that travel to Thomond all the time anyway.

There is a huge overlap between the people l know that go to both Cork GAA and Munster rugby.

If the opportunity arose it would be absolutely crazy for Cork GAA to turn down what is in effect a once off game (more or less).

I think these matches will be played in Paric Ui Chaoimh, it's only a question of when, l hope it's the next opportunity if common sense pervails but l accept that may not happen due to the usual nonsense in Cork GAA.

Cork GAA will get badly needed funds, goodwill from the sporting community and it certainly won't have any negative or competitive issues to Cork GAA, there are a lot more fundamental issues that are a serious impediment to Cork GAA than 2 big rugby games a decade.

JP Liz V1

PTH2009 wrote: »

i wonder will ye get many concerts in the summer time down there. Would MCD/Aiken be willing to bring big names to PUC with the Marquee just a few mins away ??. Loved Bruce Springsteen in 2013 in the old place

Was Adele, Ed Sheeran and Garth Brooks rumoured to be down for PUC this year?

namloc1980

clerk wrote: »

It's not really all that complicated all the european cup games will be in Thomond but the European semi (if they have a home draw) cannot be in Thomond.

Munster might have a home semi once every 5 years we'll say for arguments sakes.

It would be much easier for Munster fans to get to Pairc Ui Chaoimh than the Aviva and it would be more of a home atmosphere and a reward to all the Cork supporters that travel to Thomond all the time anyway.

There is a huge overlap between the people l know that go to both Cork GAA and Munster rugby.

If the opportunity arose it would be absolutely crazy for Cork GAA to turn down what is in effect a once off game (more or less).

I think these matches will be played in Paric Ui Chaoimh, it's only a question of when, l hope it's the next opportunity if common sense pervails but l accept that may not happen due to the usual nonsense in Cork GAA.

Cork GAA will get badly needed funds, goodwill from the sporting community and it certainly won't have any negative or competitive issues to Cork GAA, there are a lot more fundamental issues that are a serious impediment to Cork GAA than 2 big rugby games a decade.

What you're forgetting is that it would require a rule change at GAA Congress to allow stadiums to be used for competing sports. Croke Park was opened to the FAI and IRFU during the Lansdowne Road redevelopment but once the Aviva was complete that arrangement ended and the stadium was closed again. The GAA stadiums​ opening for the World Cup 2023 bid is specifically for that tournament only. I can see quite a few counties objecting to Cork using PUC for other competing sports. Doubt it would ever pass Congress