Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

Water John

Mario, whataboutery belongs over on the Donald Trump thread.

snotboogie

Good to see the media finally talking some sense

“That may include opening up the ground to Munster rugby and Cork City. The success of the Liam Miller charity game highlighted potential in this area.

The fact that the Aviva Stadium has become something of a graveyard for Munster in recent years could act as motivation to go to war in the Páirc.”

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/cormac-byrne-fears-over-pirc-u-chaoimh-funding-come-to-fruition-and-the-gaa-will-be-counting-the-cost-for-years-37626248.html

Reputable Rog

snotboogie wrote: »

Good to see the media finally talking some sense

“That may include opening up the ground to Munster rugby and Cork City. The success of the Liam Miller charity game highlighted potential in this area.

The fact that the Aviva Stadium has become something of a graveyard for Munster in recent years could act as motivation to go to war in the Páirc.”

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/cormac-byrne-fears-over-pirc-u-chaoimh-funding-come-to-fruition-and-the-gaa-will-be-counting-the-cost-for-years-37626248.html

Munster will not go the Stade. Why would the IRFU pay rent to another body when they have their own stadiums?

j8wk2feszrnpao

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Munster will not go the Stade. Why would the IRFU pay rent to another body when they have their own stadiums?

True. I don’t know why this keeps being brought up. Thomand Park was redeveloped about 10years ago. So the time to get Munster/IRFU onboard was at that time. A 25/30k stadium, with the ability to host rugby/soccer/GAA games, and an alternative to the Marquee to host concerts. With the FAI/IRFU/GAA/Government all contributing, maybe it could have been roofed for further purposes (fund this instead of the event center).
The opportunity was there at one stage. But with Thomand in place, Musgrave also improved; rugby was never going to be played there.

Shedite27

snotboogie wrote: »

My point is that it shouldn’t have been built without Munster Rugby buy in at a minimum. Cork GAA does not get enough games to justify a 45k capacity multi million euro stadium. Sporting organizations outside of Dublin need to work together to justify these sort of projects because without the international games and marquee finals they don’t have the volume of games to justify the spend or capacity. 100 million plus and it hasn’t sold out a GAA game in its first 18 months, I mean let that sink in ffs.... when will people wake up to this? On top of that World Rugby deemed it unfit in its current state for hosting RWC group games. After spending 100 million.

As I have said over and over in this thread, Munster Rugby and Cork GAA should have worked together to redevelop PUC and there should have been a far more modest (about 12k) redevelopment of Thomond. Munster could have used PUC for European games and derbies while using Thomond for your regular Pro rugby games. Instead both organizations are saddled with stadium debt and half full capacities. Once Thomond was redeveloped there was no need for a project of this scale. It should not have been built, anybody could see that this was set for failure.

Munster Rugby have a lovely stadium that meets their needs. Why would they contribute a penny to something that has a pitch far too big for their needs. There's no scenario in the world that they would play a Munster rugby game in PUC.

If you think Munster would willingly relocate to Cork you need to brush up on your sporting history.

I don't get your obsession with "selling out". Surely the fact that it's been big enough for every game is a good thing. We have a stadium that allows everyone Corkman that wants to go to a game to get a ticket.

Would you be more supportive if it held 30,000 and we'd scramble for tickets every second game?

snotboogie

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Munster will not go the Stade. Why would the IRFU pay rent to another body when they have their own stadiums?

Munster need to have a proper presence in Cork or they will eventually start to lose the market. They are now a Limerick team, who play every game of consequence in Limerick. Looking at the numbers today, Cork GAA are going to start getting really desperate, really fast. It’s not hard at all to see it get to a stage where 45k in Cork makes more money for Munster than 25k in Limerick.

For Forks Sake

Gunner3629 wrote: »

Frank Murphy announcing retirement in July (mid-year). Coincidence? I think not.

https://twitter.com/DeludedFrank/status/1073563793932865536 :D

tototoe

snotboogie wrote: »

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Munster will not go the Stade. Why would the IRFU pay rent to another body when they have their own stadiums?

Munster need to have a proper presence in Cork or they will eventually start to lose the market. They are now a Limerick team, who play every game of consequence in Limerick. Looking at the numbers today, Cork GAA are going to start getting really desperate, really fast. It’s not hard at all to see it get to a stage where 45k in Cork makes more money for Munster than 25k in Limerick.

More to Munster than cork and Limerick. Much more. Thomond wasn't always sold out before redevelopment either.the big games were, as they are often now. The Leinster game in 2 weeks sold out in record time. The pro 14 games aren't exactly full to the brim, but not in Musgrave either. The idea that Munster fans in cork are all disenfranchised and Munster are a limerick team is horse manure. It will be rare if ever that Munster use PUC imo and I hope that is the case.

There was no need for puc full stop, except cork wanted it. Hasn't been full for a gaa game yet or close to it. Look at the stadiums across Munster already. Thurles, Gaelic grounds in Limerick, Fitzgerald stadium in killarney, all big enough capacity wise and in reasonable state. There aren't enough games or enough fans to fill them all.

There are only so many live acts that will fill a stadium too, and people could see that before this was built. So next year they have to wheel out rod Stewart, and I'll be shocked if there is 45-50k there.

It was bonkers and obviously so from the start and crazy that so much public and gaa money was blown on it.

Reputable Rog

snotboogie wrote: »

Munster need to have a proper presence in Cork or they will eventually start to lose the market. They are now a Limerick team, who play every game of consequence in Limerick. Looking at the numbers today, Cork GAA are going to start getting really desperate, really fast. It’s not hard at all to see it get to a stage where 45k in Cork makes more money for Munster than 25k in Limerick.

They always played every game of consequence in Limerick. The MRSC have more members from Cork than anywhere else, this disenfranchisement you talk about doesn't exist.
The fact that it's the only professional sport in the country means that it will always have a market.
Most Munster supporters I know from Cork have no problem with the team being Limerick based.

namloc1980

snotboogie wrote: »

Good to see the media finally talking some sense

“That may include opening up the ground to Munster rugby and Cork City. The success of the Liam Miller charity game highlighted potential in this area.

The fact that the Aviva Stadium has become something of a graveyard for Munster in recent years could act as motivation to go to war in the Páirc.”

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/cormac-byrne-fears-over-pirc-u-chaoimh-funding-come-to-fruition-and-the-gaa-will-be-counting-the-cost-for-years-37626248.html

In what parallel universe do Cork City need a 45k capacity stadium?

Mardyke

namloc1980 wrote: »

In what parallel universe do Cork City need a 45k capacity stadium?

They don't. Same as the GAA and rugby teams don't.

But you would like to think that on the occasion when a big match comes around there would be a municipal stadium available with 20,000 seats.

Instead there is a USSR bowl, Turners Cross and muzzer.

namloc1980

Mardyke wrote: »

They don't. Same as the GAA and rugby teams don't.

But you would like to think that on the occasion when a big match comes around there would be a municipal stadium available with 20,000 seats.

Instead there is a USSR bowl, Turners Cross and muzzer.

The stadium is built now. Zero point in talking about a fantasy municipal stadium.

Gunner3629

namloc1980 wrote: »

The stadium is built now. Zero point in talking about a fantasy municipal stadium.

Unless they allowed other sports to use it.

Water John

Where is the Centre of Excellence for Cork GAA going, much needed BTW, and who will pay for it?

namloc1980

Gunner3629 wrote: »

Unless they allowed other sports to use it.

And let's say it's opened in the morning. Who will use it? Munster don't need it. Cork City don't need it unless they have a once in a blue moon big European game.

lisasimpson

Thats the thing not much alternative use apart from the odd concert and at that lucky to get 1 or 2 big acts a year. Maybe the odd american football match every few years but that wont happen with limited hotel beds in the city given the amount of people each team would bring

salmocab

There are a couple of reasons Munster wouldn’t play there, the big one is they have 2 stadiums of appropriate size for their needs and access to the Aviva if they need it.
The playing surface is too big and the game gets lost as the fans are too far from the pitch and that affects the atmosphere.

Mardyke

Going around in circles. The damage is long done.

Just another example of the complete lack of planning and foresight in this country, not to mention the greed and corruption.

What they built is not what was needed. Simple.

There are examples of 25-30,000 stadiums all over the UK that cater for football, rugby and other events, without any issues or drama. In this country though we have people like Frank Murphy and Bob Ryan.

Water John

It could be seen coming a long time back. Let's not pretend otherwise.
Donal Og spelled it out, now where is the more important Centre of Excellence for the future of Cork GAA? Should have been an integrated development in Curraheen or Glanmire.
Rumours have been abound during the construction. Maybe it isn't the GAA should be doing the inquiry but the Guards.

Acosta

Water John wrote: »

It could be seen coming a long time back. Let's not pretend otherwise.
Donal Og spelled it out, now where is the more important Centre of Excellence for the future of Cork GAA? Should have been an integrated development in Curraheen or Glanmire.
Rumours have been abound during the construction. Maybe it isn't the GAA should be doing the inquiry but the Guards.

Yeah it should, but unfortunately they're all part of team official Ireland

snotboogie

tototoe wrote: »

More to Munster than cork and Limerick. Much more. Thomond wasn't always sold out before redevelopment either.the big games were, as they are often now. The Leinster game in 2 weeks sold out in record time. The pro 14 games aren't exactly full to the brim, but not in Musgrave either. The idea that Munster fans in cork are all disenfranchised and Munster are a limerick team is horse manure. It will be rare if ever that Munster use PUC imo and I hope that is the case

Amazing that this sort of crap still flies. It’s this sort of thinking that got us where we are.

“We should not have a stadium in the biggest city in the province to cater to our professional sports team because there are other counties too”.......

Cork produces the most players for the Munster squad by an absolute mile, at almost three times the rate of Limerick. I’m not sure there is another county in Munster (besides Cork and Limerick) that have more than one player in the squad. I understand you will now refuse to follow the basic logic that player production, public interest and the state of the sport are all intrinsically linked but they are. Cork is aggrevieved because we are shipping nearly a full professional sports team down to Limerick for mostly their benefit. This false befuddlement at the sense of aggrievment because Tipperary and Kerry exist isn’t an argument.

Musgrave has sold out for every competive game that I can remember, certainly for this year and last, this is despite an incredibly poor list of opposition.

You hope that there are not many games in Cork. We produce the second most players in the country behind Dublin yet we are limited to four home games a year and you hope we don’t get more. This post is just incredible stuff...

Silentcorner

snotboogie wrote: »

Amazing that this sort of crap still flies. It’s this sort of thinking that got us where we are.

“We should not have a stadium in the biggest city in the province to cater to our professional sports team because there are other counties too”.......

Cork produces the most players for the Munster squad by an absolute mile, at almost three times the rate of Limerick. I’m not sure there is another county in Munster (besides Cork and Limerick) that have more than one player in the squad. I understand you will now refuse to follow the basic logic that player production, public interest and the state of the sport are all intrinsically linked but they are. Cork is aggrevieved because we are shipping nearly a full professional sports team down to Limerick for mostly their benefit. This false befuddlement at the sense of aggrievment because Tipperary and Kerry exist isn’t an argument.

Musgrave has sold out for every competive game that I can remember, certainly for this year and last, this is despite an incredibly poor list of opposition.

You hope that there are not many games in Cork. We produce the second most players in the country behind Dublin yet we are limited to four home games a year and you hope we don’t get more. This post is just incredible stuff...

The only bid for the Training Base and Academy from Cork was by all accounts a half hearted bid by CIT....despite the size of the city.

It's not always someone else's fault you know.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Silentcorner wrote: »

It's not always someone else's fault you know.

You hit the nail on the head here.
Limerick already had Thomand Park, that was a huge factor in the decision. Cork lost out, but it’s not like it fought that much for it.

snotboogie

Silentcorner wrote: »

The only bid for the Training Base and Academy from Cork was by all accounts a half hearted bid by CIT....despite the size of the city.

It's not always someone else's fault you know.

Not disputing that at all. Cork GAA should have proposed to work with Munster. The bizarre “it can’t be done” mentality exists in Cork as much as anywhere else in Ireland

Shedite27

Football and rugby had no need for a stadium, this was a GAA decision and has to stand up on its own merits.

Water John

Without the money for the possible RWC from Govn't it would have been a nonrunner.

EnzoScifo

Time to split Munster Rugby I'd say

rebs23

Silentcorner wrote: »

The only bid for the Training Base and Academy from Cork was by all accounts a half hearted bid by CIT....despite the size of the city.

Many would disagree. On some of the other comments I know of a lot of Cork based Munster rugby fans that have simply stopped going to Thomond for games. There is huge disenfranchisement among a lot of Cork based Munster rugby supporters about the location of the training base and the location of Munster Rugby's main base. Donal Linehan wrote an article in the paper about it. It's real and it exists.
About all the other stadiums in Munster for GAA, so what, are we really going to have a situation in Cork GAA where we simply did not redevelop the stadium because stadiums exist elsewhere? Munster doesn't need a 45,000 capacity stadium in Killarney, Limerick or Thurles but it does need one in Cork.
Cork is by far and away Ireland's most second populous county, it has the biggest and most consistent supporter base for GAA games outside of Dublin, it sends a lot of money into the GAA coffers through it's large membership base and supporter base travelling to games, Cork should not suffer a lack of investment in a modern stadium just because GAA stadiums are located in the wrong locations elsewhere.
The only viable location outside of Dublin (with all the other commercial possibilities) for a modern 45,000 stadium is Cork. We always had a stadium capable of holding large attendances (since 1976 anyway) and there is no way we could or should have lost out on an infrastructural investment simply because stadiums exist elsewhere.
I simply couldn't and wouldn't countenance as a Cork GAA supporter travelling to Thurles or Limerick or Killarney to watch Cork play their home games, no way that was or is going to happen.
It's built now and it will make a return on the investment. PUC was originally built in 1976, originally estimated at £1 million and ended up costing £1.8 million and the same type of headlines were being made. It paid for itself many times over as will the new PUC.

rebs23

EnzoScifo wrote: »

Time to split Munster Rugby I'd say

From some accounts it is only a matter of time.

snotboogie

Páirc Uí Chaoimh budget soars: A hard lesson and a missed opportunity

Another good article on the mess. Good to see more of the media talking sense:

Were it not, a municipal stadium might have been built, one that would have greatly enriched the region. In a few decades, when this millstone debt is discharged, and Páirc Uí Chaoimh needs to be redeveloped, hopefully different attitudes will prevail. What an expensive lesson this missed opportunity is proving to be.

hear, hear.....