Gardai clampdown on "Airsoft" in markets ??

hitman__

AT Balbriggan market this morning, Gardai taking a hard line with sellers of rif's. Good to see and hopefully it will continue at other locations.

fayer

Nice to see the new RIF laws being enforced, makes all the hard work done by the legitimate retailers pay off.

J.D.R

Oh no!! You mean I can't buy cheap, crappy, overpriced pellet guns at the markets anymore?

kevinhalvey

thats some of the best news ive heward all year i have 4 friends who wont save up and buy a decent gun instead they buy these crap sping things for like 40 euro and they brake so easy but they buy them out of the back of a van not a market :mad::mad::mad:

J.D.R

kevinhalvey wrote: »

thats some of the best news ive heward all year i have 4 friends who wont save up and buy a decent gun instead they buy these crap sping things for like 40 euro and they brake so easy but they buy them out of the back of a van not a market :mad::mad::mad:

No sympathy for them whatsoever

MacAonghusa

Are the guns illegal? (i'm unsure of the current law tbh).
If so, well done Gardaí.

If not then it doesn't seem right.

Blazer

MacAonghusa wrote: »

Are the guns illegal? (i'm unsure of the current law tbh).
If so, well done Gardaí.

If not then it doesn't seem right.

It's this sort of crap (selling in the market) that casts a negative slant on airsoft. That we can do without.

Stonewolf

MacAonghusa wrote: »

Are the guns illegal? (i'm unsure of the current law tbh).

As far as I'm aware you can only sell them now if you're a licenced trader in RIF but I'm not sure if the licencing apparatus has been set up yet. I believe there are also conditions on a store selling RIF (fully enclosed, no RIF visible to the outside, lockup in the back etc ...).

Ayrtonf7

Well its deffinatley nice to see them putting in the work on it instead of just whining about it

Puding

well the licensing laws a still not in place at the moment so it is more likely the restrictions on rifs in public is being enforced

good to see the start of action on the cowboys

Chiorino

Balbriggan market is regularly raided not only because of Airsoft items but because of the vast amount of stolen goods that are allegedly sold there. I do happen to know a few market managers who are actually very concerned about airsoft items being sold and blanket ban them.

J.D.R

Wait, if you can only sell them if you are a licensed trader, then what will happen withe the adverts section?

Puding

J.D.R wrote: »

Wait, if you can only sell them if you are a licensed trader, then what will happen withe the adverts section?

the licencing system is still not in place so at the moment you can still import and sell rifs as long as they comply to the 1 joule rule

for information on personal sales 'when' the licensing system is in place you need to have a look at the iaa document on the MPB

http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/airsoft_the_mpb_and_you.pdf

Personal Sales
Section 9(D) Paragraph 1 would appear to restrict the private sale of Airsoft devices. There is some debate on this matter.
It would not make sense to restrict the private sale of an item that may be bought without license or identification in a shop.
It is our impression that most retailers would not be interested in second-hand sales. If private sale is not allowed, many
Airsoft devices may end up in the wrong hands, in landfill sites to be found, or worse still on a 'black market' for Airsoft
devices.
The difficulty of policing private sales has also been pointed out. The IAA will be seeking clarification on this matter
directly, and strongly recommending that private sales be allowed.

gerrowadat

Puding wrote: »

the licencing system is still not in place so at the moment you can still import and sell rifs as long as they comply to the 1 joule rule

for information on personal sales 'when' the licensing system is in place you need to have a look at the iaa document on the MPB

http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/airsoft_the_mpb_and_you.pdf

FWIW, the DoJ made it clear to the IAA committee last year (in person) that the intention was not to restrict private sales.

Puding

nice to hear, was it posted anywhere?

fayer

Puding wrote: »

nice to hear, was it posted anywhere?

Not that I can see or remember but it was covered in more than one face to face conversation. It is out of the scope of the bill due to the phrasing "by way of trade or business"

*Why do I feel another epic CJA OMG AIRSOFT IS BAZNED tread coming..... :rolleyes:

Blazer

fayer wrote: »

OMG AIRSOFT IS BAZNED tread coming..... :rolleyes:

What:eek: airsoft is banned????? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Airsoft Reloded

We should ban people talking about people banning airsoft

MindPhuck

Puding wrote: »

the licencing system is still not in place so at the moment you can still import and sell rifs as long as they comply to the 1 joule rule

so we can still purchase guns off the net and get them shipped in, with no issues?

Puding

MindPhuck wrote: »

so we can still purchase guns off the net and get them shipped in, with no issues?

as it stands at the moment yes, as long as the one joule rule is followed, at the moment all parcels from outside the eu seem to be being inspected, had a parcel with a couple of pouches from Russia stopped just a few days ago first time in 3 years anything stopped from Russia, so anything rif shaped i would imagine will draw there attention even more so could go away for testing

fayer

MindPhuck wrote: »

so we can still purchase guns off the net and get them shipped in, with no issues?

I would say as many issues as we have always had

swiftblade

I don't know why you would order it now with the amount of retailers that offer to order stuff in for you. Just seems silly to me to take the risk

Puding

have to agree, the euro exchange does not help as well

if im buying a rif from outside Ireland then for the last 6+ months it has been inside europe, UK,Austria for example if i can not find it domestically

Dread-Lock

swiftblade wrote: »

I don't know why you would order it now with the amount of retailers that offer to order stuff in for you. Just seems silly to me to take the risk

I'm not sure I follow what you mean, what risk?
Surely if you don't break the law (make sure the gun is below 1J/have it downgraded) then there is no risk...

touge_drift

glad to see it happen. sure there only crap springers anyways.
it will do the sport no good if they continue to sell these in markets

swiftblade

Dread-Lock wrote: »

I'm not sure I follow what you mean, what risk?
Surely if you don't break the law (make sure the gun is below 1J/have it downgraded) then there is no risk...

Well there is more risk involved than just poping down to your local airsoft retailer.

Even if you are ordering a GBB or AEG there have been people that have lost them due to being "over the limit" . Usely happens with GBB when they test it with CO2 instead of Gas

bravestar

swiftblade wrote: »

Well there is more risk involved than just poping down to your local airsoft retailer.

Even if you are ordering a GBB or AEG there have been people that have lost them due to being "over the limit" . Usely happens with GBB when they test it with CO2 instead of Gas

"An air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating
a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy "

Unfortunately the word can is to blame for that. If you can send it harder with CO2, even though it was not designed for CO2, then it is considered in law as the real deal. Very unfair.

Tigger

so are all gas airsoft rifs illegal cos you "can" put co2 in them or what is the story?

Captain Chaos

Tigger wrote: »

so are all gas airsoft rifs illegal cos you "can" put co2 in them or what is the story?

Same here, what about AEGs because you "can" put MS180 springs in them.

Sure that quote ain't taken out of context?, because if it is the way it is anything airsoft "can" fire over 1J depending on what you do with it.

BioHazRd

I seriously doubt that the garda ballistics office is putting co2 gas into guns when they should be using green gas etc. They are intelligent people who know what they are doing. From what I have heard, they are very aware of the differences between the various propulsion methods and do not mix them up. To do so would make a mockery of the whole process they go through as they could potentially be using incorrect procedures to determine evidential proof in a possible criminal matter.
Give them some credit - they wouldnt do that at the risk of being bollocked by a judge.

Lets just assume they put the correct gas in because they are capable of reading the manual that comes with the gun, and lets just move on without mentioning this bull again.

fayer

Tigger wrote: »

so are all gas airsoft rifs illegal cos you "can" put co2 in them or what is the story?

Of course they are Tigger, you better go add another layer to that tinfoil hat of yours now!

Tigger

bravestar wrote: »

"An air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating
a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy "

Unfortunately the word can is to blame for that. If you can send it harder with CO2, even though it was not designed for CO2, then it is considered in law as the real deal. Very unfair.

just to be clear bravestar is a member of the garda afaik so i don't see the problem with asking for clarification

fayer wrote: »

Of course they are Tigger, you better go add another layer to that tinfoil hat of yours now!

whats your problem ?

Sparks

bravestar wrote: »

Unfortunately the word can is to blame for that. If you can send it harder with CO2, even though it was not designed for CO2, then it is considered in law as the real deal. Very unfair.

It'd be an interesting legal argument - if it's not designed for use with CO2 to the point where catastrophic failure is a possibility, then the word "can" shouldn't really apply. I mean, I "can" stick a .50 cal round in a pipe and hit the primer with a tack hammer, but that doesn't mean you "can" fire .50 calibre rounds from copper piping

kdouglas

swiftblade wrote: »

Even if you are ordering a GBB or AEG there have been people that have lost them due to being "over the limit" . Usely happens with GBB when they test it with CO2 instead of Gas

This is hearsay and has been confirmed directly with the Garda Technical department they do not test with Co2, in the one circumstance where this has been reported (which I am aware of), it was later confirmed by a Det. Sgt. that it was most likely a misprint on the report and that they only test with standard airsoft gas. (e.g. green gas)


On the whole "Can" issue, I think it's important to remember that the legal definition of certain words and the way in which they are used in common parlance regularly differ. It's equally important to remember that the law is open to interpretation, as pointed out by Sparks, you "can" put a .50 cal round into a pipe and hit it with a hammer.

Puding

if you went along the lines of 'can' then we need to start working along the lines of japan where airsoft devises use material tolerances which prohibit upgrades above 1j, almost everything you come across in airsoft can be upgraded some with little or no mechanical know how, but that is the choice of the person doing the upgrade to break the law

contrary to popular belief the garda are not stupid and i;ve meet a lot of them that know more about airsoft than a lot of the people floating around boards at times the same goes with customs, yes there are some that have limit knowledge of airsoft but considering we only make up a small % of there responsibility and remit this is not surprising

Masada

Yup he's a Guard alright,

and andy_g removed his thanks from the post., haha

bravestar

Tigger wrote: »

so are all gas airsoft rifs illegal cos you "can" put co2 in them or what is the story?

In theory that would be correct but common sence has to be applied as well.

BioHazRd wrote: »

I seriously doubt that the garda ballistics office is putting co2 gas into guns when they should be using green gas etc. They are intelligent people who know what they are doing. From what I have heard, they are very aware of the differences between the various propulsion methods and do not mix them up. To do so would make a mockery of the whole process they go through as they could potentially be using incorrect procedures to determine evidential proof in a possible criminal matter.
Give them some credit - they wouldnt do that at the risk of being bollocked by a judge.

Lets just assume they put the correct gas in because they are capable of reading the manual that comes with the gun, and lets just move on without mentioning this bull again.

As someone else said, the lads up there know the score and do their jobs well, they dont have any beef with airsoft and are not out to prove anything.

Sparks wrote: »

It'd be an interesting legal argument - if it's not designed for use with CO2 to the point where catastrophic failure is a possibility, then the word "can" shouldn't really apply. I mean, I "can" stick a .50 cal round in a pipe and hit the primer with a tack hammer, but that doesn't mean you "can" fire .50 calibre rounds from copper piping

Thats the problem, it could be used as a legal argument. If something more concrete and less open to interpretation had been written then there wouldnt be any argument.

Masada wrote: »

Yup he's a Guard alright,

and andy_g removed his thanks from the post., haha

:eek: haha

Gray

bravestar wrote: »

Thats the problem, it could be used as a legal argument. If something more concrete and less open to interpretation had been written then there wouldnt be any argument.

All new laws are open to interpretation until they are tested in court and a Judge interprets it & sets precedence which they all follow afterwards.

bravestar

Gray wrote: »

All new laws are open to interpretation until they are tested in court and a Judge interprets it & sets precedence which they all follow afterwards.

Until it goes to the supreme court and the exact opposite is done

Gatling

Choooooo Choooooo all aboard incoming train wreck

Masada

Lets hop the feds will now have a word with the 2 shops in Talbot street that are selling cheap softs aswell. One of them still displaying them in the front window too. The kids in my area all have "pelleh guns" as a result of these places.

Ayrtonf7

Masada wrote: »

Do you ever get fed up with that same stupid phrase? Add something constructive will ya.


Lets hop the feds will now have a word with the 2 shops in Talbot street that are selling cheap softs aswell. One of them still displaying them in the front window too. The kids in my area all have "pelleh guns" as a result of these places.

Go out in full in full tac gear and show em who runs the block
only joking...

Really dissapointing that alot of parents arnt educated about this kinda stuff

Damo 2k9

Hopped off the bus on my way home there yesterday and the bus stop is outside loadsa houses, walking up the road and theres this chap who is a market seller, seen all the footballs and everything and looked at the wall and there was a few ak's leaned up against the wall :P

Masada

Ayrtonf7 wrote: »

Go out in full in full tac gear and show em who runs the block
only joking...

Really dissapointing that alot of parents arnt educated about this kinda stuff

They actually don't need the parents to buy them from what I've seen, with the average kids pocket money these days they can well afford them and the parents might not even know. Despite them being pieces of cr@p and breaking before long, they still run the risk of causing us damage as a sport., The sooner these chancers are clamped down apon the better imo.,:).

mafiaboy

i was in Stephens green shopping center and on the top floor in the tattoo shop there selling AK47s

Masada

Yeah that place sells all sorts of model guns, they dont fire anything but look as close to real thing as airsoft do really. yore man seems to have a bit of cop on about who he sells to, but even still, not an ideal place to be flogging them.

BioHazRd

Until the airsoft section of CJA2009 becomes fully implemented, there is nothing that the authorities can do to stop these people from selling those guns. What they can do is tackle them regarding brandishing. I reckon that's the angle they are taking regarding the market sellers but as I am not a legal person, I don't know if the same would apply to retailers displaying in a shop window.
These guys are selling their product due to airsoft guns lower than 1 joule in power being legal to own. They have nothing to do with the sport of airsoft other than we are concerned about unscrupulous selling to minors. Once the retailer licensing scheme is implemented, I am pretty sure the issue will go away.

Masada

Oh look, Andy_g went and edited my post for his long time buddy, Gatling under the guise of "abusing another member" and without PMing me, infracting or even clarifying on thread what "abuse" even took place in the first place?.

Care to clarify that andy? and why you've blindly over looked the complete offtopic'ness/thread spoiling of the previous post while you were at it.

o1s1n

Masada wrote: »

and andy_g removed his thanks from the post., haha

Masada wrote: »

Oh look, Andy_g went and edited my post for his long time buddy, Gatling under the guise of "abusing another member" and without PMing me, infracting or even clarifying on thread what "abuse" even took place in the first place?.

Care to clarify that andy? and why you've blindly over looked the complete offtopic'ness/thread spoiling of the previous post while you were at it.

I remember a while back you kicked up a massive fuss because you thought a certain person was trying to victimized and troll you at every opportunity.

Amazing how things develop, isn't it?

Thread closed. We'll be having a closer look at this.