Landlord requires advice URGENTLY PLEASE!!!

Twiggy69

I let a rented property to a settled traveller family. She came recommended from another settled tenant who was a model tenant.

That was on JUNE 23RD 2008. She signed a 12 month lease and agreed to pay a Top Up amount of 50 euro per week on top of the rent allowance paid by the Social. She was forever in arrears but by me keeping in touch numerous times by phone, it was eventually paid. That lasted for the first 10 months.

Then she stopped paying her top -up and due to a financial windfall, the Social found out about, they cut off her rent allowance completely. I tried to contact her by phone but she would not answer. Then I called down in person. She assured me that the arrears would be paid that evening but never showed up at the agreed time. I also offered her a fresh lease earlier that day, for the subsequent 12 months, but she refused to sign it,

Since then (over 12 months ago) I have made numerous attempts to contact her by phone but she has changed her number. I have actually called to the house, but get no answer. Within minutes, a gang of male travellers in the estate gather around me and tell me that she is gone away!

After some months I got a few hundred arrears from the Social and a measly 58 euro weekly subsequently. However, to-day I just checked my Bank account and I notice that she has stopped the 58 euro! So now I notice that another tenant who lives up the street has also ceased paying both her Top Up & the Social payment of 148 euro per week. So for the past 3 weeks, I have not received a penny rent from either tenant or the Social on their behalf.

What are my options here???

In the past when I contacted the Social, I was told that it had nothing to do with them as they are paying the allowance to the tenant, and any arrears is between the tenant and I.

At this stage the first tenant has not paid a penny rent in over 12 months and the second tenant has not paid in rent Top Up for several weeks.

I need to get these tenants out and put the properties up for sale as they are just too much stress & hastle.

Does the first tenant have Squatters rights???

How do I go about evicting these tenants???

How do I go about being paid my rent arrears???

Please feel free to PM me if you feel you have any advice that might help.

I want to ensure that despite this bad situation that I don't make a wrong move that will end up costing me more money in the long run.

The_Conductor

1. It takes at least 12 years of non-payment of rent in order to gain squatters rights.

2. Unfortunately- social welfare will wash their hands of this- this is the problem with rent allowance tenants. Social welfare used pay the rent allowance directly to landlords- however this was seen as some sort of a slight to the tenant- so it was changed. In practice this is fine in 95% of cases- however you do get the 5% of cases where it just doesn't work.

3. You need to contact the PRTB and initiate eviction proceedings immediately. You need to download a copy of the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act (link here) and follow the prescribed method of eviction carefully. I would also suggest registering any correspondence.

4. You can try to get the rent arrears via the PRTB- but their dispute process is onerus- and with tenants like these, I'd be more inclined to try to get shot of them, than chase them for arrears, when they could potentially do far more damage to your property than the arrears would ever cover.

5. Contrary to what the tenant may think- the elapse of a fixed term contract does not mean its terms and conditions no longer apply. A section 4 tenancy, as defined by the act, only applies in specific circumstances.

Unfortunately there are very many landlords out there in similar trouble to you at present. All you can really do is follow the letter of the law and protect yourself from any possible claims from the tenant. The law as it stands safeguards the tenant, and their interests- even when they decide unilaterly to not pay rent- and make the landlord jump through hoops to retrieve their property.

The law used be vastly in favour of landlords- the pendelum has swung in the opposite direction unfortunately- and even where there is clear ill intent on the part of the tenant- the procedure to retrieve a property is quite incredible.

ricman

You can go to welfare officer ,tell her if theres still payments being made ,ie rent allowance then please stop the payments , as i recieved no rent in the last 12 months.write a letter give her notice to quit.i think you are going to have to get a lawyer and take her to court to evict her.
i do nt wanna be racist but its risky taking on travellers as tenants as its unlikely they,ll have references or letters from employers and they have a habit of claiming for discrimination etc
she cant give you info, its against data protection act, but she can stop all rent allowance payments.
see here for info http://www.irishlandlord.com/index.aspx?page=misc&id=24
you have to given a written eviction order, notice to quit at least one months notice.
YOU CAN get free info from citizens advice centre or crosscare,but i think you,ll need a solitictor to go to court
you need to register as a landlord with the prtb, and the tax office.
see here
http://www.irishlandlord.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1117

why did you wait a year without taking action.

she may just leave when the rent allowance stops.

if she leaves ,and say 2 cousins move in, you can evict em.

go to social welfare office, say i have tenant x, living at this adress, say
if anyone else is living there , they are not tenants,they are illegal, they have no right to claim dole, welfare from this adress.

ie you wanna make sure no other person is living there, apart from the named tewnant.
You do not 4 people claiming, dole or rent allowance from this house
,without your permission.
download from here

http://www.prtb.ie/act.htm
notice of termination of tenancy

print it out.make changes , ie put in your name, tenants ,name , as required.
this has to done perfectly ,keep a record of everything.
you can send it by registered post, photograph the document and the letter , deliver it or post it.


try and find out is the tenant living there or is the house just been taken over by a group of travelers.
can you ask the neighbours for info,as to who, s living there.

Twiggy69

Thank you smccarrick for your detailed response.

Oh dear, it looks like I'm in for a long legal battle to regain my properties. I will definitely sell them on after this, even at a loss and would caution anyone about renting properties in the future.

Twiggy69

@ ricman - thank you also for your lengthy and informative response.

In both houses I am aware that other family members have resided there without my permission.

The reason I left it so long is because there was little or no prospect of getting new tenants due to the downturn, and by getting in the reduced rent from both properties was enough to pay both mortgages, but with the rent stopped since June 1st, I have no choice but to act now.

ricman

No one has squatters rights , you have to live in a house for like ten years to get those.
MY ADVICE is get on with both evictions, just forget bout getting paid overdue rent .you are gonna end up with various people just living in the house claiming rent allowance,social welfare etc the original tenant has got a windfall ,shes probably living somewhere else i,ve seen it be4 , the tenant goes,
meanwhile 4 of his friends move in, and claim,dole,ra etc while paying no rent.The longer you leave it the worse it gets.
go to the dole office first, make sure no non tenant is claiming the dole from your house.if so,ask for those payments to be stopped.
they wont give you names,but they will stop the illegal payments.
re eviction notice you need to follow the letter of the law , go to an advice centre , get detailed advice, re eviction procedure , keep records, write down everything you, do, every letter you send etc
i dont think its worth chasing down 600 e from a traveler ,who can move anywhere ,
but you can use small claims court at a later date, after you carry out eviction ,if you wish.


see here eviction rules,
http://www.irishlandlord.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3270

so you send eviction notice, if tenant refuses to leave,it can go to prtb, so the whole thing can take months, as a prtb hearing can take months to process.

see note 1, and note 2,
first send registered letter stating the rent arrears need to be paid within 14 days of todays date,then after 14 days if arrears not paid,
send a formal registered,NOTICE OF TERMINATION OF TENANCY
,KEEP RECORDS, photograph all documents,letters, and even envelopes,be4 posting.
probably better to send everything by registered post.

Twiggy69

@ ricman - at this stage there is over 15,000 euro due to me in back rent, plus whatever it is going to cost me in refurbishing the places.

I didn't think of that...perhaps the tenants have moved on ...but I doubt I'd be that lucky... both tenants have other family members living on the same street.

I've put off the evil day, but it seems they have forced my hand. again, thanks for the useful links...lots of food for thought.

ricman

lets say you spend 2k on refurbishment , you can claim that 2k as landlords expenses, plus also,lawyers fees for eviction order, against taxes for the tax year 2009, 2010 , thats assuming you had rental income
in the tax year 2009 to 2010.
my pals loan is 10k, her rental income is 7k, so the tax she pays is tiny
as shes not making any significant profit on the house ,after paying insurance, maintenance and mortgage etc
just make sure keep records,and receipts for every item,document, letter and payment to painters, tradesman etc
you may be asked in court for records,documents or copys of all letters , notices sent to the tenant. photocopy all letters ,documents ,notices etc.
as you will likely need to go to court to complete eviction and gain legal
possession of the property and legally terminate the tenancys.

ricman

you need to follow all proper legal procedures , notice to quit etc , to the letter of the law otherwise your case to evict will be declined in court due to a technicality, ie you need to word all documents precisely as seen on the prtb website, if tenant refuses to leave ,take the case to the prtb.
so the whole thing could take 2 months or more, depending on the prtb .s
speed and effeciency.
AND the tenant has 14 days to pay up the arrears if they wish to do so.

ricman

You should make sure your home insurance, is up to date, which MUST include public liability INSURANCE.YOU SHOULD inform social welfare ,the tenant is whoever, eg tom kelly, NO ONE else is entitled to live at this or to claim dole/ jobseekers allowance ,i have given no one apart from tom kelly has my permission to live at this adress.
IE ONLY tom kelly can claim welfare or rent allowance from here.

Graces7

The PTRB handle landlord/ tenant disputes.. assuming you are registered.

A nightmare of a situation indeed.

That they are in default with the rent will be the deciding issue though...

We just had the paperwork from the PRTB re our own landlord's threat of illegal eviction.. the one thing we are strongly advised not to do is stop paying rent; they speak of Enforcement and prosecution for a criminal offence.

And those guys intimidating; call the Gardai.

gibo_ie

As a landlord i had a very similar situation with settled travellers. After a few months of no rent the procedure i followed was:
1. Verbal warnings
2. 7 days letter written warning - registered letter with 14 days to pay arrears
3. I also spoke to the Gardai in the local town and explained my situation. They made sure to make extra visits to the house and also have a word with the tenants on what could happen legally if they failed to move along. They can even check for outstanding warrants etc against names of people in the house. This tends to get results quick!!
4. I also spoke to the tenants about certain illegal activities I felt they were involved with and that the Gardai would be notified in full along with social welfare if they were not gone by end of week.
Within a month of starting and a few days from number 4 above. they were gone. Now i was owed money from this but put most of it down to a lesson learned, and the rest could be written off against taxable expenses etc...

Remember it is your property, PRTB have final say in legal matters so dont go turning off power etc.. but do not make their lives any easier, consider selling debt to a collection agency also. When they do move out (and they will) a tenant paying 1/2 of what you were expecting to get now is much better than what you got now!!

Good luck.

Twiggy69

I have been in touch with the PRTB this morning and I am getting a 14 Day letter prepared to send to both tenants. This will be followed up by a Notice of Eviction within 28 days if I am not paid in full.

Then likelihood is that they will leave kicking & screaming, but with family members living on both sides of my properties, the likelihood is that I will have more trouble on my hands when they leave.

I deeply regret letting these two families into my homes, and would ask other landlords to consider the trouble I'm in when they consider future lettings. I may well just sell these two properties (at a loss) in order to get closure on this matter.

Already, I have been threatened that they know where I live (from their copy of my Lease!)

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!

Twiggy69

@gibo_ie: Many thanks for the constructive advice. I have tried to get in touch with a couple of Gardai that I know in the area, to appear at the houses. Ideally, I would like one of them to be present to witness the handing over of the formal letters, especially the 28 days notice to quit.

Excellent advice about selling on the debt. I wonder is it an option while the tenants are still resident??? Of course there is always the danger of retaliation against the properties...

convert

Twiggy69 wrote: »

I have tried to get in touch with a couple of Gardai that I know in the area, to appear at the houses. Ideally, I would like one of them to be present to witness the handing over of the formal letters, especially the 28 days notice to quit.

I'd seriously consider registering the letters and making them sign for them. If they are likely to intimidate people, what's to stop them intimidating the gardaí to say that they didn't witness any letter being delivered? (worst case scenario, but still, I'd register the letter).

ricman

In this situation its not possible ,to sell the house , as theres likely no legal tenant staying there.just squatters.
see prtb website, 1st thing you do,is send registered letter , it states you have 14 days to pay the arrears,adress it to the tenant, photograph the letter.

i see no point in having gardai there for this 1st letter. if not paid arrears within 14 days send a letter in 15 days from the 1st note, notice of eviction to terminate tenancy ,eg 1months notice, as stated in my previous post.
inform the prtb and write to them to tell em what you are doing.
ie likely the 1st letter will be ignored cos tenant is no longer living there,
its a legal formality to start the eviction process.
i do not think you,ll get any cooperation from the squatters,
most squatters ignore letters, throw em in the bin, apart from esb bills, which they may pay
in order to keep the power on.

but you have to go thru the whole legal process , of sending letters,contacting prtb, in order to gain legal possession of this house.

JUST SEND THE 1st demand, note for arrears by registered post,
cost 3 euro approx.
the law in this country is you have to wait x amount of time to process an eviction order, and go thru various steps, theres no quick shortcut.

Victor

Register letter, but send it as a weighty package if you fear it will be rejected.