Physical Therapy Course

eilo1

vin6599 wrote: »

Hi All,

2. What is the opinion of Physio's on Physical Therapy?

Cheers

Vin

Hi Vin,

I'm a 3rd year physio student so I thought I would give you some of my opinions on this.
I have absolutely no problem with Physical Therapy as a course. I have never been treated by one but do have some friends that have had good results with them.

From what I understand they use a lot of similar manual techniques as a physiotherapist. I have been led to believe the course is very thorough and hard work.

The main differences from physio as far as I see it are that you will not be trained specialist areas such as Neuro rehab (stroke patients etc.) care of the elderly and cario respiratory (this is for when you work ICU and suction etc).

On a more professional basis physiotherapy as with all health sciences is very evidence based. Physiotherapists are involved in research to develop new treatments such as cardiac rehabilitation and pulmonary rehabilitation.

I would say to you that if it is feasible for you to do the degree in physiotherapy that may be a better option. I only say this because your degree is worth more weight as it is a Bsc and you will have been trained by the HSE and will graduate with 1000 hours clinical experience in Irish hospitals. If you decide you only want to work in musckuloskeletal after you graduate you will have the continued support of the CSP who are constantly running additional courses to keep physios up to date with the latest research.

However there is absolutely nothing wrong with becoming a Physical Therapist and doing private work.

(oh just one thing although I dont know if it is really relevant. I was advised to do physio over another course I was looking at because Ireland is very relaxed with regard to alternative treametns etc so there may be issues with insurance etc if they ever tighten up)

karlitob

Munster Team Physio:

Requirements are for a chartered physiotherapist!!!!! Not a 'physical therapist'


http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/8996.php

bubbleking

karlitob wrote: »

Munster Team Physio:

Requirements are for a chartered physiotherapist!!!!! Not a 'physical therapist'


http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/8996.php

The Leinster rugby team and Ireland rugby team have Physical therapists as well as Athletic therapists working for them. They are all part of the IRFU so I'd whack in the C.V anyway and if you have the proper credentials you would get the job I'd wager

karlitob

bubbleking wrote: »

The Leinster rugby team and Ireland rugby team have Physical therapists as well as Athletic therapists working for them. They are all part of the IRFU so I'd whack in the C.V anyway and if you have the proper credentials you would get the job I'd wager

You mistake my point

- they don't want a 'physical therapist' - they want a chartered physiotherapist.

I know of only one ATT in the IRFU set-up. I don't know any 'physical therapists' in the IRFU set up

yit

As a physio student I don't mean to be snobbish at all here but there is a big gulf between physiotherapy and physical therapy. Entry requirements alone for example, with physio requiring 500 points plus in the LC. Physical therapists emphasise the use of manual therapy (i.e. mobilisations, muscle energy techniques, massage etc) whereas physios are way way broader based. I know of 2 year physical therapy courses and to be honest I don't have a clue how after 2 years you are near competent enough to go out there and examine shoulders,elbows,hands,spines,hips,groins,knees,ankles,feet etc etc. I'm heading into my fourth and final year now and I'm still going back to anatomy time after time after time and I really don't know how it can be done in two years and in my opinion it's dangerous because even if you know the diagnosis of a patient, if you don't understand it then treatment and prevention is probably just going to be generic and not specific to that person's needs and/or capabilities. Granted that there are great physical therapists out there and it's nothing against them I just don't think a 2 year course and even a 3 year course is sufficient. With regards to the job vacancy there, they are looking for chartered physiotherapists and/or certified athletic therapists so I wouldn't say a physical therapist would really get a look in to be honest. Physical therapy as a profession is further confused by the way in which physios are called physical therapists in America but it's important not to confuse the two.

RV

I think that’s the point though – the gulf between professions is intentional? Physiotherapy study covers more ground with conditions seen in hospital that are uncommon in private practice; burns, stroke, respiratory, surgical and so on. So the ‘physical therapist’ has a narrower focus allowing (?) a shorter more focused course.

I think the degree course teaches students to diagnose but the diploma courses don’t so people might not be equipped to diagnose after a short course. That would not stop them being professional, or safe or referring patients as appropriate. Health professionals, generally refer for further investigation or when they realize a problem is beyond their scope or outside their specialization and rightly so. It is like it is more important to recognize what you don’t know than to try and know everything.

I think most of the people pursuing the ‘physical therapy’ path would be aware of the likely work opportunities. Not that there’s harm in posting an example of a place where a physiotherapist can apply for a job.

bubbleking

karlitob wrote: »

You mistake my point

- they don't want a 'physical therapist' - they want a chartered physiotherapist.

I know of only one ATT in the IRFU set-up. I don't know any 'physical therapists' in the IRFU set up

My bad - obv the ATT's would be keen to distinguish themselves from the physical therapists also

halfrombal

I realise how frustrating this can be for chartered physiotherapists. . .but saying that the degree course in physiotherapy is more difficult based on leaving cert points is rubbish. You who obviously got 500 points should know that its based on supply and demand and not how difficult the course is.

I think people that are doing the bsc in applied sciences physical therapy should be applauded. Its costing them 15000 for the three years and sounds like pure hardship if you are trying to hold down a full time job. Not everyone can give up four years of their life unpaid.

I myself am considering doing the NTC course in neuromuscular and physical therapy. I didn't get enough points for physiotherapy at the time I did my leaving cert (9 years ago) and ended up in a completely unrelated health profession. So the NTC is really looks good to get a taster into massage therapy and looks interesting and is more flexible to people who are working full time.

karlitob

halfrombal wrote: »

I realise how frustrating this can be for chartered physiotherapists. . .but saying that the degree course in physiotherapy is more difficult based on leaving cert points is rubbish. You who obviously got 500 points should know that its based on supply and demand and not how difficult the course is.

540 points actually. As with my physiotherapy colleagues, this represents the top 2% of the country in any one year of the leaving cert. Are you saying that all courses are equally weighted in terms of difficulty? There is a significant difference between a Level 7 and Level 8 degree.

halfrombal wrote: »

I think people that are doing the bsc in applied sciences physical therapy should be applauded. Its costing them 15000 for the three years and sounds like pure hardship if you are trying to hold down a full time job. Not everyone can give up four years of their life unpaid.

I think people who achieved 520+ should also be applauded and not vilified as they seem to be on this forum. And they should also be applauded for struggling through four years without a full time job. A significant number of students that i know how down a 30 - 40 hour a week job - pubs, restaurants etc to make ends meet. They already know how tough it is without anyone needing to highlight it.

There is no 'bsc in applied sciences physical therapy'. Its a BSc in Applied Health Sciences (Level 7). There is no reference to physical therapy in the title

halfrombal wrote: »

I myself am considering doing the NTC course in neuromuscular and physical therapy. I didn't get enough points for physiotherapy at the time I did my leaving cert (9 years ago) and ended up in a completely unrelated health profession. So the NTC is really looks good to get a taster into massage therapy and looks interesting and is more flexible to people who are working full time.

There's noone saying that you cant.

yit

halfrombal wrote: »

I realise how frustrating this can be for chartered physiotherapists. . .but saying that the degree course in physiotherapy is more difficult based on leaving cert points is rubbish. You who obviously got 500 points should know that its based on supply and demand and not how difficult the course is.

I think people that are doing the bsc in applied sciences physical therapy should be applauded. Its costing them 15000 for the three years and sounds like pure hardship if you are trying to hold down a full time job. Not everyone can give up four years of their life unpaid.

I myself am considering doing the NTC course in neuromuscular and physical therapy. I didn't get enough points for physiotherapy at the time I did my leaving cert (9 years ago) and ended up in a completely unrelated health profession. So the NTC is really looks good to get a taster into massage therapy and looks interesting and is more flexible to people who are working full time.

Pure hardship? Come on seriously?

Look my opinion on the matter is that there is a big gulf between Chartered Physiotherapists and Neuromuscular/Physical Therapists.

I'm not dissing the courses or the people that do it, fair play if you are going to do it

RV

I think there’s a couple of strands to the discussion; it is generally accepted that it is more difficult to gain a degree while working full-time than if studying full time. Also, having to pay 16K+ in fees is added hardship. Most students on the physiotherapy courses pay no fees; everyone on the physical therapy degree has to pay all their fees.

There is sometimes a gulf between people calling themselves ‘physios’ and Chartered Physiotherapists in the same way as there is sometimes a gulf between some that call themselves physical therapists and those that have the B.Sc degree (in Applied Health Science).
And then there’s the added difference between professions (physio and physical) that were designed to be different in the first place.

I think the points requirement for entry relates to supply/demand. When demand outstrips supply, the points requirement increases in direct proportion. Courses with high points (for entry) may have a low failure rate. Courses with low entry requirements can have a high failure.

So there’s no evidence at all that a physiotherapist is brainier than an ordinary human. There is an arguable case that those entering physiotherapy are more clever than ordinary folk entering other programmes. But no evidence that those with say a physiotherapy degree are better than people with any other degree.

yit

RV wrote: »

I think there’s a couple of strands to the discussion; it is generally accepted that it is more difficult to gain a degree while working full-time than if studying full time. Also, having to pay 16K+ in fees is added hardship. Most students on the physiotherapy courses pay no fees; everyone on the physical therapy degree has to pay all their fees.

There is sometimes a gulf between people calling themselves ‘physios’ and Chartered Physiotherapists in the same way as there is sometimes a gulf between some that call themselves physical therapists and those that have the B.Sc degree (in Applied Health Science).
And then there’s the added difference between professions (physio and physical) that were designed to be different in the first place.


I think the points requirement for entry relates to supply/demand. When demand outstrips supply, the points requirement increases in direct proportion. Courses with high points (for entry) may have a low failure rate. Courses with low entry requirements can have a high failure.

So there’s no evidence at all that a physiotherapist is brainier than an ordinary human. There is an arguable case that those entering physiotherapy are more clever than ordinary folk entering other programmes. But no evidence that those with say a physiotherapy degree are better than people with any other degree.

So if you get 560 in your Leaving cert, do physiotherapy, and qualify as a chartered physio, you are not brainier than the 'average' person who got 310 in their leaving cert and say did a 3 yr level 7 business degree in an IT?

I don't mean that in a snobby way at all, I just don't get your point that as long as you have a degree you are at the same level of intelligence as everyone else.

bubbleking

yit wrote: »

So if you get 560 in your Leaving cert, do physiotherapy, and qualify as a chartered physio, you are not brainier than the 'average' person who got 310 in their leaving cert and say did a 3 yr level 7 business degree in an IT?

I don't mean that in a snobby way at all, I just don't get your point that as long as you have a degree you are at the same level of intelligence as everyone else.

of course all courses have a different level of difficulty but points in the LC aren't a good measure of intelligence at all....

imported_guy

bubbleking wrote: »

of course all courses have a different level of difficulty but points in the LC aren't a good measure of intelligence at all....

is there any information to support this claim?

schooling correlates pretty well with intelligence

http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/apa_01.html

Schools affect intelligence in several ways, most obviously by transmitting information. The answers to questions like "Who wrote Hamlet?" and "What is the boiling point of water?" are typically learned in school, where some pupils learn them more easily and thoroughly than others. Perhaps at least as important are certain general skills and attitudes: systematic problem-solving, abstract thinking, categorization, sustained attention to material of little intrinsic interest, repeated manipulation of basic symbols and operations. There is no doubt that schools promote and permit the development of significant intellectual skills, which develop to different extents in different children. It is because tests of intelligence draw on many of those same skills that they predict school achievement as well as they do.

Irish lass 2012

Y

halfrombal wrote: »

I realise how frustrating this can be for chartered physiotherapists. . .but saying that the degree course in physiotherapy is more difficult based on leaving cert points is rubbish. You who obviously got 500 points should know that its based on supply and demand and not how difficult the course is.

I think people that are doing the bsc in applied sciences physical therapy should be applauded. Its costing them 15000 for the three years and sounds like pure hardship if you are trying to hold down a full time job. Not everyone can give up four years of their life unpaid.

I myself am considering doing the NTC course in neuromuscular and physical therapy. I didn't get enough points for physiotherapy at the time I did my leaving cert (9 years ago) and ended up in a completely unrelated health profession. So the NTC is really looks good to get a taster into massage therapy and looks interesting and is more flexible to people who are working full time.

I don't see why it's frustrating for chartered physios at all! Physical therapists have various institutions in Ireland where they go to study their profession. They are not universities , they are privately run colleges. Colleges that have their standards for education met , aprroved and accredited for the programmes they run. The two professions are similar in ways and they treat similar conditions but are very different, in their philosophies are their techniques. Physios need to stop putting the physical therapist down! So what if u went to a university and did your degree, well done to you. You got your points and passed your degree and got your membership with your governing body the iscp. And hopefully you are working and making a difference to society and the patients you treat. Points has nothing to with it! I am a practicing registered physical therapist in Ireland. I have my own clinic , so I am self employed. I chose to study physical therapy. I got 560 points in my leaving certificate , well above the entry level for the undergrad physio degrees in Ireland. I chose to study science, I have a 2.1 honours degree in neuroscience from university college cork. I was accepted for a place on a Phd programme to study stem cell research. I am not of a lesser intelligence to a chartered physio. I was a competitive sports person through uni, I had many injuries. I gained interest in physiotherapy and physical therapy as I was treated by both professionals. I was also treated by osteopaths and massage therapists! I had a very bad injury, the only therapist I found to be helpful for me was a physical therapist, so I decided to go back and study physical therapy part time. I took out a loan, worked my ass off and passed with first class honours the whole way thru! I chose to be a physical therapist.
I have since gone on to study many post grad courses in osteo manipulation, dry needling, electro therapy, Pilates , biomechanics, sports performance. I love learning ! I love my job and I am proud to be a physical therapist. I do not knock physios , osteopaths or other health professionals in my line of work. I think we all need to work together and see what we can learn from each other as a multi disciplinary health care community for the future! We all have our own strengths to offerto our patients. This division needs to stop! I do not claim to be a physio , if a member of the public is confused I explain clearly what we do, treat and the differences between the two professions! This crap needs to stop! Physio become chartered when they apply for membership with their regulating body the Iscp . Physical therapist become registered when they are accepted to their regulating bodies. There are 3 main bodies for physical therapy in Ireland the rpti, Iapt and the Iptas. These are all self regulated just like the Iscp ! Physical therapist must pass certain criteria to become registered, cpds and up to date first aid courses must be followed to retain membership. We are not of a lesser therapist to a physio! We are completely different. It's time to educate yourselves an move with the times! Evolve with your colleagues! Don't knock them down!

opinion guy

Irish lass 2012 wrote: »

Y


I don't see why it's frustrating for chartered physios at all! Physical therapists have various institutions in Ireland where they go to study their profession. They are not universities , they are privately run colleges. Colleges that have their standards for education met , aprroved and accredited for the programmes they run. The two professions are similar in ways and they treat similar conditions but are very different, in their philosophies are their techniques. Physios need to stop putting the physical therapist down! So what if u went to a university and did your degree, well done to you. You got your points and passed your degree and got your membership with your governing body the iscp. And hopefully you are working and making a difference to society and the patients you treat. Points has nothing to with it! I am a practicing registered physical therapist in Ireland. I have my own clinic , so I am self employed. I chose to study physical therapy. I got 560 points in my leaving certificate , well above the entry level for the undergrad physio degrees in Ireland. I chose to study science, I have a 2.1 honours degree in neuroscience from university college cork. I was accepted for a place on a Phd programme to study stem cell research. I am not of a lesser intelligence to a chartered physio. I was a competitive sports person through uni, I had many injuries. I gained interest in physiotherapy and physical therapy as I was treated by both professionals. I was also treated by osteopaths and massage therapists! I had a very bad injury, the only therapist I found to be helpful for me was a physical therapist, so I decided to go back and study physical therapy part time. I took out a loan, worked my ass off and passed with first class honours the whole way thru! I chose to be a physical therapist.
I have since gone on to study many post grad courses in osteo manipulation, dry needling, electro therapy, Pilates , biomechanics, sports performance. I love learning ! I love my job and I am proud to be a physical therapist. I do not knock physios , osteopaths or other health professionals in my line of work. I think we all need to work together and see what we can learn from each other as a multi disciplinary health care community for the future! We all have our own strengths to offerto our patients. This division needs to stop! I do not claim to be a physio , if a member of the public is confused I explain clearly what we do, treat and the differences between the two professions! This crap needs to stop! Physio become chartered when they apply for membership with their regulating body the Iscp . Physical therapist become registered when they are accepted to their regulating bodies. There are 3 main bodies for physical therapy in Ireland the rpti, Iapt and the Iptas. These are all self regulated just like the Iscp ! Physical therapist must pass certain criteria to become registered, cpds and up to date first aid courses must be followed to retain membership. We are not of a lesser therapist to a physio! We are completely different. It's time to educate yourselves an move with the times! Evolve with your colleagues! Don't knock them down!

Speaking as the patient who went to a physical therapist not knowing the was something different to physiotherapy, and being manhandled and treated disrespectfully by the physical therapist I say no to this. No. You guys need to change your name and stop trading off the similarity of your name to that of physiotherapists.

Irish lass 2012

RacoonQueen wrote: »

A physical therapist is probably the equivalent of a musculoskeletal physiotherapist. A Physio is qualified to work with and treat stroke, MS, post - operative patients (hip replacements, knee replacements, ACL repairs and other general surgeries), oncology patients, patients with severe balance problems - the list is endless. The only clients a physical therapist would generally get is sports and lifestyle injuries.

The work the average Physio would do in the HSE on a day to day basis is completely different to what a physical therapist would do, unless that physio works with outpatients - sports injutries, fractures, RTA's, sprains etc..

What is your background raccoon queen? For you to comment on such a topic. I am a practicing registered physical therapist, and I treat ALL of the above conditions ! Do you know what musculoskeletal means?? Of course we treat pre post op cases! Rehab! Exercises ! Treatment for reduction of scar tissue to increase ROMs! Strengthening the lot! Paeds, to geriatric! Pain reductions OA ,RA ! MS! Parkinson's disease associated problems! Manual lymph drainage for cancer patients! Osteopathic spinal manipulations! Orthotic assessment, ergonomics! Biomechanics! N yea eh sports injuries too! He physical therapist does a lot more than u think Hun! They must think for themselves, assess and treat! We really do great work! Oh n we also do our fair share of massage too!

Irish lass 2012

opinion guy wrote: »

Speaking as the patient who went to a physical therapist not knowing the was something different to physiotherapy, and being manhandled and treated disrespectfully by the physical therapist I say no to this. No. You guys need to change your name and stop trading off the similarity of your name to that of physiotherapists.[/


That is a very unfortunate experience you had. However you must not paint all physical therapists with the same brush! This therapist you went to must be reported! Where they registered??? As a member of the public you must protect yourself and make sure the therapist you choose is registered or chartered. We physical therapists do not "try" to pass off as a physiotherapist. We are Physical therapists. You can report that therapist to their register , the board can decide to strike this person off the register. I truely am sorry to hear of such an experience.

Irish lass 2012

: Y
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfrombal
I realise how frustrating this can be for chartered physiotherapists. . .but saying that the degree course in physiotherapy is more difficult based on leaving cert points is rubbish. You who obviously got 500 points should know that its based on supply and demand and not how difficult the course is.

I think people that are doing the bsc in applied sciences physical therapy should be applauded. Its costing them 15000 for the three years and sounds like pure hardship if you are trying to hold down a full time job. Not everyone can give up four years of their life unpaid.

I myself am considering doing the NTC course in neuromuscular and physical therapy. I didn't get enough points for physiotherapy at the time I did my leaving cert (9 years ago) and ended up in a completely unrelated health profession. So the NTC is really looks good to get a taster into massage therapy and looks interesting and is more flexible to people who are working full time.

I don't see why it's frustrating for chartered physios at all! Physical therapists have various institutions in Ireland where they go to study their profession. They are not universities , they are privately run colleges. Colleges that have their standards for education met , aprroved and accredited for the programmes they run. The two professions are similar in ways and they treat similar conditions but are very different, in their philosophies are their techniques. Physios need to stop putting the physical therapist down! So what if u went to a university and did your degree, well done to you. You got your points and passed your degree and got your membership with your governing body the iscp. And hopefully you are working and making a difference to society and the patients you treat. Points has nothing to with it! I am a practicing registered physical therapist in Ireland. I have my own clinic , so I am self employed. I chose to study physical therapy. I got 560 points in my leaving certificate , well above the entry level for the undergrad physio degrees in Ireland. I chose to study science, I have a 2.1 honours degree in neuroscience from university college cork. I was accepted for a place on a Phd programme to study stem cell research. I am not of a lesser intelligence to a chartered physio. I was a competitive sports person through uni, I had many injuries. I gained interest in physiotherapy and physical therapy as I was treated by both professionals. I was also treated by osteopaths and massage therapists! I had a very bad injury, the only therapist I found to be helpful for me was a physical therapist, so I decided to go back and study physical therapy part time. I took out a loan, worked my ass off and passed with first class honours the whole way thru! I chose to be a physical therapist.
I have since gone on to study many post grad courses in osteo manipulation, dry needling, electro therapy, Pilates , biomechanics, sports performance. I love learning ! I love my job and I am proud to be a physical therapist. I do not knock physios , osteopaths or other health professionals in my line of work. I think we all need to work together and see what we can learn from each other as a multi disciplinary health care community for the future! We all have our own strengths to offerto our patients. This division needs to stop! I do not claim to be a physio , if a member of the public is confused I explain clearly what we do, treat and the differences between the two professions! This crap needs to stop! Physio become chartered when they apply for membership with their regulating body the Iscp . Physical therapist become registered when they are accepted to their regulating bodies. There are 3 main bodies for physical therapy in Ireland the rpti, Iapt and the Iptas. These are all self regulated just like the Iscp ! Physical therapist must pass certain criteria to become registered, cpds and up to date first aid courses must be followed to retain membership. We are not of a lesser therapist to a physio! We are completely different. It's time to educate yourselves an move with the times! Evolve with your colleagues! Don't knock them down!

yit

Irish lass 2012 wrote: »

What is your background raccoon queen? For you to comment on such a topic. I am a practicing registered physical therapist, and I treat ALL of the above conditions ! Do you know what musculoskeletal means?? Of course we treat pre post op cases! Rehab! Exercises ! Treatment for reduction of scar tissue to increase ROMs! Strengthening the lot! Paeds, to geriatric! Pain reductions OA ,RA ! MS! Parkinson's disease associated problems! Manual lymph drainage for cancer patients! Osteopathic spinal manipulations! Orthotic assessment, ergonomics! Biomechanics! N yea eh sports injuries too! He physical therapist does a lot more than u think Hun! They must think for themselves, assess and treat! We really do great work! Oh n we also do our fair share of massage too!

So you do cardiac rehab with people? Everything you said you do there is all musculoskeletal and orthopaedic related within the diseased you mention, a chartered physiotherapist working in intensive care and in the wide variety of disciplines associated with physiotherapy is very different to a physical therapist, and that is not knocking physical therapy for one second.

My problem with physical therapy is simply the name, I think because physical therapy in the US is physiotherapy, that it is therefore misleading.

opinion guy

Irish lass 2012 wrote: »

That is a very unfortunate experience you had. However you must not paint all physical therapists with the same brush! This therapist you went to must be reported! Where they registered??? As a member of the public you must protect yourself and make sure the therapist you choose is registered or chartered. We physical therapists do not "try" to pass off as a physiotherapist. We are Physical therapists. You can report that therapist to their register , the board can decide to strike this person off the register. I truely am sorry to hear of such an experience.

Reported for what ? He himself didn't mislead me. I was referred to him by someone who heard he was good. I didn't know at the time that such a thing as a physical therapist existed so i thought he was a physiotherapist. From what I read after he did pretty much what physical therapists do.

The only thing misleading is the name physical therapist. Quite how you can claim it isn't misleading is beyond me to be honest. You people need a new name for what you do. Simple as.

RV

Irish lass 2012 wrote: »

: Y
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfrombal
... worked my ass off and passed with first class honours the whole way thru...

To my knowledge, only one college here providing physical therapy is meeting any standard and that is the Institute of Physical Therapy - a HETAC degree. It is not an honours degree so it is hard to understand how someone could get 'first class honours'. It is not possible to get honours on a certificate or diploma course either.

Many people calling themselves PT’s have never done a PT course, and many courses described before as sports massage or neuromuscular therapy have suddenly decided to also call themselves physical therapy. Regulating physical therapy in the way proposed for physiotherapy would put both similar professions on an equal footing.

IMO most people, if asked whether ‘physical therapy’ was exactly the same thing as ‘physiotherapy’ would think it wasn’t, reasoning that if it was the same it would not have two different names. A good way to tell things apart is to give them different names.

"...you guys need to change your name..." There are many of examples of names/titles that sound similar but mean different. A post above shows many similarities between the two professions, so similar sounding names makes some sense. After twenty years establishing a reputation it might be seen as insulting not to mention naive to tell one group to change its name to accommodate their competitor. The Competition Authority, Department of Health and Minister rejected that idea nearly ten years ago.

opinion guy

RV wrote: »

"...you guys need to change your name..." There are many of examples of names/titles that sound similar but mean different. A post above shows many similarities between the two professions, so similar sounding names makes some sense. After twenty years establishing a reputation it might be seen as insulting not to mention naive to tell one group to change its name to accommodate their competitor. The Competition Authority, Department of Health and Minister rejected that idea nearly ten years ago.

As someone else said - in the US physiotherapists ARE called physical therapists. I knew this. I didn't know that in Ireland physical therapy was a different thing to in the US. Why would I know these things as a random punter wanted treatment ?? Why do you think I would be well up on the history and divisions of your particular filed of work ?

You may think you have spent 20 years establishing a reputation - but as someone who at that time had tried out osteopathy, cranial osteopaty, Bowen therapy, Feldenkrais, kinesiology and a few others that I dare say many on here would never have even heard of - I had never heard of you guys.

Your name is misleading. Simple as. It just is. Trying to argue otherwise is futile. You are arguing against simple facts. Its not necessarily a slight on the effects of your treatment. True I didn't enjoy my experience - but had I known ahead of time what I was going to, perhaps I would have seen it in a different light. But I thought I was going for physiotherapy. I expected physiotherapy. I wanted physiotherapy. I did not want physical therapy.

yit

opinion guy wrote: »

As someone else said - in the US physiotherapists ARE called physical therapists. I knew this. I didn't know that in Ireland physical therapy was a different thing to in the US. Why would I know these things as a random punter wanted treatment ??

And therein lies the problem in my opinion. I think in your case though you just had a bad experience with one physical therapist, and there are plenty out there who are just as academically intelligent as chartered physiotherapists, but the name is too misleading

karlitob

Irish lass 2012 wrote: »

That is a very unfortunate experience you had. However you must not paint all physical therapists with the same brush! This therapist you went to must be reported! Where they registered??? As a member of the public you must protect yourself and make sure the therapist you choose is registered or chartered. We physical therapists do not "try" to pass off as a physiotherapist. We are Physical therapists. You can report that therapist to their register , the board can decide to strike this person off the register. I truely am sorry to hear of such an experience.

Registered with who - the IAPT - the same crowd that are teaching you. Hardly independent registering.

You also expect the public to protect themselves. Ridiculous comment! The Health and Social Care Professions Act 2005 has established a legislative means for the public to determine if practicioners are registered and for recourse in the event of an incident - guess what group of under qualified 'professionals' are not it!!

karlitob

Irish lass 2012 wrote: »

I am a practicing registered physical therapist, and I treat ALL of the above conditions ! Do you know what musculoskeletal means?? Of course we treat pre post op cases! Rehab! Exercises ! Treatment for reduction of scar tissue to increase ROMs! Strengthening the lot! Paeds, to geriatric! Pain reductions OA ,RA ! MS! Parkinson's disease associated problems! Manual lymph drainage for cancer patients! Osteopathic spinal manipulations! Orthotic assessment, ergonomics! Biomechanics! N yea eh sports injuries too! He physical therapist does a lot more than u think Hun! They must think for themselves, assess and treat! We really do great work! Oh n we also do our fair share of massage too!

You, as a practising 'physical therapist' do not have the experience or clinical knowledge to correctly assess, diagnose and treat any neurological conditions, any oncology or palliative conditions, any paediatric or any post-operative conditions (perhaps an exception may be orthopaedic conditions).

For such a range of conditions you mentioned, you could not hold the knowledge you suggest or gain access to the patient type sufficiently to generate any level of clinical competence.

RV

"... the IAPT - the same crowd that are teaching you..."
The IAPT (the Association) don't run courses. You might be confusing them with IPTAS (the school) who run the Level 8 Honours degree.

"...guess what group of under qualified 'professionals' are not it..."
Assuming the snide reference is to physical therapists, I think you will find that physiotherapists are not in it either, though the legislation they sought is on the books for seven years. Could it be they don't want to join?

"...you could not hold the knowledge you suggest ..."
This is just a gratuitous insult that should make ordinary physiotherapists cringe. But your posts here and elsewhere on the topic seemed designed to add heat instead of light. It is hard to work out whose side you think you are on.

Irish lass 2012

karlitob wrote: »

You, as a practising 'physical therapist' do not have the experience or clinical knowledge to correctly assess, diagnose and treat any neurological conditions, any oncology or palliative conditions, any paediatric or any post-operative conditions (perhaps an exception may be orthopaedic conditions).

For such a range of conditions you mentioned, you could not hold the knowledge you suggest or gain access to the patient type sufficiently to generate any level of clinical competence.

To your ridiculous assumption of my clinical knowledge, I also hold a Neuroscience Degree , so I specialize in Neurological conditions actually in my own clinic, I have an extensive background in neurology , a lot more than your few modules you covered in your degree. I also have done many post graduate courses including Osteopathy which has extensive amounts of Neurological testing, . I have done dissertations and projects on M.S and Epilepsy. My Thesis was on NG-2glia cells in the amygdala of temporal lobe epilepsy patients. I have Manual Lymph Drainage courses done, I work in CUH once a week on cancer patients! I have rheumotologists and orthopaedic consultants from the CUH and Mercy Hospital Cork, referring patients to me for after care and pain management! POST AND PRE OP!! Stop being so ignorant and move with the times!

Irish lass 2012

yit wrote: »

So you do cardiac rehab with people? Everything you said you do there is all musculoskeletal and orthopaedic related within the diseased you mention, a chartered physiotherapist working in intensive care and in the wide variety of disciplines associated with physiotherapy is very different to a physical therapist, and that is not knocking physical therapy for one second.

My problem with physical therapy is simply the name, I think because physical therapy in the US is physiotherapy, that it is therefore misleading.

No of course I do not do cardiac rehab with people, we are not that type of therapist. just to say that Physical therapy and Physiotherapy are both found in the US. It depends what state your in.
Physical Therapists are specialized musculoskeletal therapists, who have extensive training and techniques for musculo skeletal conditions, thats why we are more hands-on, we dont man handle people! Rehabilitation therapists will be more specialised than the physios in hospitals soon, healthcare is evolving we all need to work as a team as we all have our different strengths and specialties and stop knocking each other just because in the private sector the physical therapist is the main physios competitor! Its ridiculous!

Irish lass 2012

karlitob wrote: »

Registered with who - the IAPT - the same crowd that are teaching you. Hardly independent registering.

You also expect the public to protect themselves. Ridiculous comment! The Health and Social Care Professions Act 2005 has established a legislative means for the public to determine if practicioners are registered and for recourse in the event of an incident - guess what group of under qualified 'professionals' are not it!!

Our Registers are self regulated! As are Osteopaths and Chiros, Reflexologists and acupuncturists. Thats why we want it to become more regulated. Physical Therapy is very much new to Ireland. And Ireland has to catch up with other countries. Our Registers are professional governing bodies, otherwise health insures would not approve us. All physical Therapists must themselves be insured , how do you expect us to get insurance if we do not have a professional register regulating us. There are 3 main registers for physical therapy in ireland. Eventually they will come together as one big regulating body like your physio charter, when we have enough members. There is only a few thousand physical therapists in ireland. Physiotherapy was set up by the royal college of surgeons and hollistic masseurs, back when ireland was ruled by Britain. The Irish charter then took over. Our register is new, it doesnt mean its not professional!
One of the main reasons our courses have not been made level 8 physical therapy degrees, is because 1) physical therapy as a title is being fought over by the irish chartered physiotherapy board. They want the rights to the name. Until this issue is resolved and the name is then free to be used we will get our degree with physical therapy on them. The royal college of surgeons are fighting it. The royal college of surgeons of ireland would be in the process of loosing money, i.e students numbers, etc! Its just simple bureaucracy! It does not by any means suggest that our backgrounds and courses are not up to standard.