England -v- Slovenia, Wed 3pm RTE & BBC HD

Fratton Fred

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Are you serious? They are way way under par.

Qualifying just glosses over the obvious shortcomings and is ultimately just delaying the inevitable.

Aah yes, but we still qualified.

windsurfer99ie

A marvellous English performance marred only by the usual anti-English bias by the usual grumpy old men on RTE Sport. Stick three old Irish men in the the same room for long enough and they will agree with each other - especially where England are concerned.

The main points arising :

1. There is nothing wrong with England's team selection - but a new team is long-overdue at RTE Sport. The new team should represent all ages, both genders, and Ireland's largest immigrant community (English - I have to say this because RTE don't seem to be aware of it). Johnny Giles sexist remark directed at Gabby Logan was disgraceful and like Ron Atkinson before him, he should lose his job for it. Even Dunphy said "that's not right".

2. Dunphy's comments "the soap opera continues", "when you hear Rule Britannia and all that jingoistic nonsense", "we can be rational and reasonable". No you can't Dunphy - you're a bigot and you too should lose your job.

3. Your expert Souness disappeared before he was called to account to defend his allegation that the English team were all suffering from altitude sickness and his prediction that they would crash out against Slovenia.

The only team that failed was RTE's panel. Sack them ! I could go on, but unlike RTE's panel of so-called experts I'll shut up now.

flahavaj

Poor stuff Fratton tbh.

This is like you giving your opinion on a Champions League match and your opinion being dismissed because Portsmouth are too sh*t to have ever been near the tournament.

jesus_thats_gre

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Aah yes, but we still qualified.

I am aware of that. Done so in second place behind the USA.



Do you think that they are playing well? Do you think that they a genuine chance of winning the tournament?

jesus_thats_gre

mike65 wrote: »

Bring on the Haters etc!

/waves flag in the front garden and gets pelted by natives...:pac:

Well I was born in London and actually hoped that England would do well.

To sum up my feelings on their performances so far. They remind me of Liverpool last season but are actually worse.

They haven't got the mentality to win it or a manager willing to really shake things up.

kleefarr

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I am aware of that. Done so in second place behind the USA.



Do you think that they are playing well? Do you think that they a genuine chance of winning the tournament?

It was a great performance, compared to their last couple of games.
And if you're still in the tournament you have a chance of winning it.

jesus_thats_gre

kleefarr wrote: »

It was a great performance, compared to their last couple of games.
And if you're still it the tournament you have a chance of winning it.

It was certainly better in relation to the previous performances and they were actually playing to their potential for a period after the goal but it was still a largely poor performance for a team containing such talented individuals.

kleefarr

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It was certainly better in relation to the previous performances and they were actually playing to their potential for a period after the goal but it was still a largely poor performance for a team containing such talented individuals.

They must be pacing themselves.
I expect better performances each game now.

jesus_thats_gre

kleefarr wrote: »

They must be pacing themselves.
I expect better performances each game now.

Not impossible by any means, especially if they build up a lead but they fall apart due to nerves when the opposition start turning the screw. They just look to be far too willing to drop their heads.

As such, I don't think they have any real hope of winning it.

Fratton Fred

flahavaj wrote: »

Poor stuff Fratton tbh.

This is like you giving your opinion on a Champions League match and your opinion being dismissed because Portsmouth are too sh*t to have ever been near the tournament.

I don't mind opinions, an opinion would be "England were not firing on all cylinders again today, but were worthy of the win. Unless they recapture the form they showed in qualifying, they are going to struggle in the next round.

Sneering about the press, Gabby Logan and England fans is not an opinion, it is just chipontheshoulder itus and frankly deserves to be ridiculed.

flahavaj

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I don't mind opinions, an opinion would be "England were not firing on all cylinders again today, but were worthy of the win. Unless they recapture the form they showed in qualifying, they are going to struggle in the next round.

Sneering about the press, Gabby Logan and England fans is not an opinion, it is just chipontheshoulder itus and frankly deserves to be ridiculed.

Thats what us United fans usually say. And everyone hates us.;)

jesus_thats_gre

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I don't mind opinions, an opinion would be "England were not firing on all cylinders again today, but were worthy of the win. Unless they recapture the form they showed in qualifying, they are going to struggle in the next round.

Sneering about the press, Gabby Logan and England fans is not an opinion, it is just chipontheshoulder itus and frankly deserves to be ridiculed.

Well I think my posts on this thread have been very reasonable and you trotted out a defensive reply.

Maybe it is your defensiveness on the matter that is the issue here.

redout

The problem with this England team is that they were over hyped coming into the tournament.

Not a particularly great performance today by any stretch but they got the job done.

Not a hope they ever were realistic contenders for the World Cup.

I look at England and compare them to the other big teams I have seen in the tournament and they dont shape up to well.

I would say Italy are the only other big team that look quite as poor.

Mezcita

World Cups are always way better with England involved. They always get their hopes up and their tears tug on the heart-strings somewhat when they inevitably bow out on pennos. I am reminded of the wise words of Eric Cartman:

"Yes! Yes! Oh let me taste your tears, Scott! Oh, the tears of unfathomable sadness! Mmm-yummy! Mmm-yummy"

Just give them time lads.....

windsurfer99ie

Mezcita wrote: »

World Cups are always way better with England involved. They always get their hopes up and their tears tug on the heart-strings somewhat when they inevitably bow out on pennos. I am reminded of the wise words of Eric Cartman:

"Yes! Yes! Oh let me taste your tears, Scott! Oh, the tears of unfathomable sadness! Mmm-yummy! Mmm-yummy"

Just give them time lads.....

Well that's profound ! 31 of the 32 teams that made it to the finals are going to "fail", but by making it to the Finals in the first place, and now the last 16 they have succeeded as far as I am concerned. Like most England fans I know, I don't realistically expect them to progress much further. I'm hoping that they now get Germany and as long as they play as well as they did today, win or lose, I will be happy as long as they don't cheat. All I am picking up in this forum is "chipsonourshoulder" stuff. In the circumstances, today's performance was as good as I could hope for, and the RTE panel got it completely wrong.

murpho999

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

A marvellous English performance marred only by the usual anti-English bias by the usual grumpy old men on RTE Sport. Stick three old Irish men in the the same room for long enough and they will agree with each other - especially where England are concerned.

The main points arising :

1. There is nothing wrong with England's team selection - but a new team is long-overdue at RTE Sport. The new team should represent all ages, both genders, and Ireland's largest immigrant community (English - I have to say this because RTE don't seem to be aware of it). Johnny Giles sexist remark directed at Gabby Logan was disgraceful and like Ron Atkinson before him, he should lose his job for it. Even Dunphy said "that's not right".

2. Dunphy's comments "the soap opera continues", "when you hear Rule Britannia and all that jingoistic nonsense", "we can be rational and reasonable". No you can't Dunphy - you're a bigot and you too should lose your job.

3. Your expert Souness disappeared before he was called to account to defend his allegation that the English team were all suffering from altitude sickness and his prediction that they would crash out against Slovenia.

The only team that failed was RTE's panel. Sack them ! I could go on, but unlike RTE's panel of so-called experts I'll shut up now.

Disagree a lot with what you say.

1.Nothing wrong with England team's selection....are you joking? Giles was implying that Gabby Logan is used more for her looks than interviewing skills. Tend to agree, her interview with Capello was a gushing embarrasment, you'd swear they'd just won the World Cup they way they were going on.

2. Dunphy's comments about jingoism. Agree with it aswell, Englad fans are the only ones I know that sing the National Anthem during the actual game. Also that 'Rule Brittania' song really gets my back up, with its slavery references and glorifying colonialism with 'Brittania Rules the waves. I find it incredibly annoying and arrogant and I don't know of any other country that sing such jingoistic songs.

3. So Souness got it wrong regarding the result, not the first pundit to do so, but he definitely has something about England's performance levels.

I agree with the RTE team that England were not that great today and cannot understand how English media is raving about it.
Only thing I would like to see for more balance on RTE is maybe having an ex-England player on the panel for England games, eg Martin Keown, that would be great to see how an English player reacts to Dunphy/Giles instead of being mollycoddled by Gary Lineker.

Morzadec

I don't always say this but I thought the RTE panel were fairly spot on.

I'd be very surprised if England made it to the quarters unless they drastically improve on all their group game performances. I thought they were poor today.

I think it was a really weak group and probably the worst quality football I've seen played in the WC has come from this group.

Watching Germany and Ghana now and the quality is far better in my opinion. Playing as they have been in the group stages I would tip both Group D teams to make the quarters.

The only thing is that the nerves/pressure might have been slightly lifted from England. They would have been crucified had they gone out in the Group Stages, so they may have a bit more belief and confidence.

Fratton Fred

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Well I think my posts on this thread have been very reasonable and you trotted out a defensive reply.

Maybe it is your defensiveness on the matter that is the issue here.

Aah yes but we still qualified isn't exactly defensive, more a statement of fact. I was particularly referring to your posts, maybe we are both being defensive :-)

Livvie

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

They haven't got the mentality to win it .

Afraid that might be true. Too much emphasis placed on the importance of winning by everyone connected with the team - media, fans, players.

I feel quite gutted for Slovenia, for the US to have scored so late. Pleased for the US mind.

England might have had the best players, but were far from being the best team. Not even sure they were second best tbh.

DB10

Mentality to win it?

They haven't got the ability either, and nowhere near it. They have embarrassed themselves so far, now for the grand finale this weekend.

DB10

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

A marvellous English performance marred only by the usual anti-English bias by the usual grumpy old men on RTE Sport. Stick three old Irish men in the the same room for long enough and they will agree with each other - especially where England are concerned.

The main points arising :

1. There is nothing wrong with England's team selection - but a new team is long-overdue at RTE Sport. The new team should represent all ages, both genders, and Ireland's largest immigrant community (English - I have to say this because RTE don't seem to be aware of it). Johnny Giles sexist remark directed at Gabby Logan was disgraceful and like Ron Atkinson before him, he should lose his job for it. Even Dunphy said "that's not right".

2. Dunphy's comments "the soap opera continues", "when you hear Rule Britannia and all that jingoistic nonsense", "we can be rational and reasonable". No you can't Dunphy - you're a bigot and you too should lose your job.

3. Your expert Souness disappeared before he was called to account to defend his allegation that the English team were all suffering from altitude sickness and his prediction that they would crash out against Slovenia.

The only team that failed was RTE's panel. Sack them ! I could go on, but unlike RTE's panel of so-called experts I'll shut up now.

Stop reading after the first 4 words.

Some people are on another planet. Even a diehard Englishman wouldn't agree with that drivel.

Morzadec

DB10 wrote: »

Stop reading after the first 4 words.

Some people are on another planet. Even a diehard Englishman wouldn't agree with that drivel.

'Very very very good' according to Mark Lawrenson at the end of the game. I wonder would the likes of Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Germany etc... agree if they had the same performance and result?!

As you say if we are looking at England as possible contenders, then anyone saying England's performance was good is on another planet

Mister men

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

A marvellous English performance marred only by the usual anti-English bias by the usual grumpy old men on RTE Sport. Stick three old Irish men in the the same room for long enough and they will agree with each other - especially where England are concerned.

The main points arising :

1. There is nothing wrong with England's team selection - but a new team is long-overdue at RTE Sport. The new team should represent all ages, both genders, and Ireland's largest immigrant community (English - I have to say this because RTE don't seem to be aware of it). Johnny Giles sexist remark directed at Gabby Logan was disgraceful and like Ron Atkinson before him, he should lose his job for it. Even Dunphy said "that's not right".

2. Dunphy's comments "the soap opera continues", "when you hear Rule Britannia and all that jingoistic nonsense", "we can be rational and reasonable". No you can't Dunphy - you're a bigot and you too should lose your job.

3. Your expert Souness disappeared before he was called to account to defend his allegation that the English team were all suffering from altitude sickness and his prediction that they would crash out against Slovenia.

The only team that failed was RTE's panel. Sack them ! I could go on, but unlike RTE's panel of so-called experts I'll shut up now.

England where average in the game i watched. They will be murdered by Germany in the next round if they play like that.

Fratton Fred

DB10 wrote: »

Mentality to win it?

They haven't got the ability either, and nowhere near it. They have embarrassed themselves so far, now for the grand finale this weekend.

Jesus, if you're like this now, what will you be like if we win?

I reckon ESB should learn how to harness the bitterness and use it to power a small power station!

MagicMarker

Germany are looking good, but I see no reason why England can't beat them.

Morzadec

MagicMarker wrote: »

Germany are looking good, but I see no reason why England can't beat them.

Both teams form in the last 3 games?

DB10

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Jesus, if you're like this now, what will you be like if we win?

I reckon ESB should learn how to harness the bitterness and use it to power a small power station!

Nobody is being bitter.

As Dunphy said " We can speak with rationale and realism on the subject".

Capello and the English chest pumping lot are just being biased towards England as you would expect.

If you think England were amazing today then you are either biased or loco.

MagicMarker

Morzadec wrote: »

Both teams form in the last 3 games?

Means sweet FA on the night.

jesus_thats_gre

DB10 wrote: »

Mentality to win it?

They haven't got the ability either, and nowhere near it. They have embarrassed themselves so far, now for the grand finale this weekend.

Give it up, will you!

In Cole, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney you have top class players and very few countries have more players of this quality. Throw in the likes of Johnson, Milner, Barry, Crouch and J Cole and you have a top class team that is good enough to reasonably expect them to genuinely compete for the tournament.

Any failure to compete as expected is nothing to do with the talent of the players available.

The only shortcoming in the squad is the lack of a defensive midfielder.

windsurfer99ie

DB10 wrote: »

Stop reading after the first 4 words.

Some people are on another planet. Even a diehard Englishman wouldn't agree with that drivel.

A poor response, you should try to argue your case rather than insult - you only insult yourself.

I notice that the RTE panel is far more restrained this evening. The triumphalism and sneering has gone and instead I'm hearing stuff like (England v Germany)

"too tough to call" Brady

"no fluency in England's play" Dunphy

"even stevens" Brady

"if you go on form it should be Germany, but football ain't like that" Brady

"(England) less will be expected ... eases the pressure" Dunphy

This is all fair comment, and the reason why I often prefer RTE to BBC.

This afternoon's post-match analysis was disgraceful. I suspect they've had an editorial meeting !

Hazys

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

A poor response, you should try to argue your case rather than insult - you only insult yourself.

I notice that the RTE panel is far more restrained this evening. The triumphalism and sneering has gone and instead I'm hearing stuff like (England v Germany)

"too tough to call" Brady

"no fluency in England's play" Dunphy

"even stevens" Brady

"if you go on form it should be Germany, but football ain't like that" Brady

"(England) less will be expected ... eases the pressure" Dunphy

This is all fair comment, and the reason why I often prefer RTE to BBC.

This afternoon's post-match analysis was disgraceful. I suspect they've had an editorial meeting !

The worst thing about RTE's post match is people are just expecting them to say something completely off the wall and controversial just to entertain the masses. Its like a TV soap for guys.

Some days the panel have tone it down to build it up again.

windsurfer99ie

Morzadec wrote: »

'Very very very good' according to Mark Lawrenson at the end of the game. I wonder would the likes of Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Germany etc... agree if they had the same performance and result?!

As you say if we are looking at England as possible contenders, then anyone saying England's performance was good is on another planet

Who say's we are looking at England as possible contenders? I'm saying that in the context of the position they were in before the start of the match (poor form, their opponents only needing a draw etc) that was a wonderful performance. Any team left in the tournament would be delighted with that if they were in a similiar position.

newballsplease

Dont really wanna start a thread to ask this question but, it would be great if someone could answer.
What happens if 2 teams finish on same points,same goal difference, and the match the 2 teams played in, finished a draw?

who goes through to last 16?

MagicMarker

newballsplease wrote: »

Dont really wanna start a thread to ask this question but, it would be great if someone could answer.
What happens if 2 teams finish on same points,same goal difference, and the match the 2 teams played in, finished a draw?

who goes through to last 16?

They draw lots afaik.

newballsplease

MagicMarker wrote: »

They draw lots afaik.

meaning...?

DB10

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

Who say's we are looking at England as possible contenders?

Eh everyone unless you have been on Mars the last few months....:rolleyes:

namloc1980

newballsplease wrote: »

meaning...?

toss of a coin

DB10

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Give it up, will you!

In Cole, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney you have top class players and very few countries have more players of this quality. Throw in the likes of Johnson, Milner, Barry, Crouch and J Cole and you have a top class team that is good enough to reasonably expect them to genuinely compete for the tournament.

Any failure to compete as expected is nothing to do with the talent of the players available.

The only shortcoming in the squad is the lack of a defensive midfielder.

HAHAHAHA

Such a load of nonsense.

Listing out a bunch of average players and describing them as world class, doesn't mean they actually are. They haven't shown it so far have they?

And then you go on to say....

any failure to compete is nothing to do with the talent or the players available

What a load of rubbish, never have I seen such contradicting, crazy opinions.

What is to blame then? Their world class manager?

Some people eh....

jesus_thats_gre

DB10 wrote: »

HAHAHAHA

Such a load of nonsense.

Listing out a bunch of average players and describing them as world class, doesn't mean they actually are. They haven't shown it so far have they?

And then you go on to say....



What a load of rubbish, never have I seen such contradicting, crazy opinions.

What is to blame then? Their world class manager?

Some people eh....

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. You are also making a fool of yourself.

DB10

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. You are also making a fool of yourself.

You're a joke.:rolleyes:

Next time you want to make absolutely ridiculous posts prepare to be taken to task.

Sure it is far easier for you to ignore everyone elses opinion, just like you did yesterday with you bitter anti French vile.

Overheal

DB10 wrote: »

Listing out a bunch of average players and describing them as world class, doesn't mean they actually are. They haven't shown it so far have they?

...........they're in the World Cup....

DB10

Overheal wrote: »

...........they're in the World Cup....

No ****.

So are N.Korea and Honduras. Completely irrelevant.

eagle eye

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

A marvellous English performance marred only by the usual anti-English bias by the usual grumpy old men on RTE Sport. Stick three old Irish men in the the same room for long enough and they will agree with each other - especially where England are concerned.

The main points arising :

1. There is nothing wrong with England's team selection - but a new team is long-overdue at RTE Sport. The new team should represent all ages, both genders, and Ireland's largest immigrant community (English - I have to say this because RTE don't seem to be aware of it). Johnny Giles sexist remark directed at Gabby Logan was disgraceful and like Ron Atkinson before him, he should lose his job for it. Even Dunphy said "that's not right".

2. Dunphy's comments "the soap opera continues", "when you hear Rule Britannia and all that jingoistic nonsense", "we can be rational and reasonable". No you can't Dunphy - you're a bigot and you too should lose your job.

3. Your expert Souness disappeared before he was called to account to defend his allegation that the English team were all suffering from altitude sickness and his prediction that they would crash out against Slovenia.

The only team that failed was RTE's panel. Sack them ! I could go on, but unlike RTE's panel of so-called experts I'll shut up now.

I'll start with this, I've been shouting for England all along and I hope they go on to win the World Cup however unlikely that looks right now.

I've mainly watched the BBC this World Cup and often switch over to RTE afterwards but unfortunately due to an epic tennis match I didn't listen to any analysis today.

Gabby Logan is a very good anchor host imo but she has been terrible interviewing the England players.
England did not play particularly well today either, they got it done but it wasn't an incredible performance by any means. I don't even know who got man of the match but for me it was John Terry ahead of James Milner and Ashley Cole. Thats two defenders in for Man of the Match and that says something.
The anti-English bias does exist in this country and tbh its hard for kids growing up not to have some sort of bias when they are taught in school about the likes of Oliver Cromwell and the executions in 1916. Thats where it all comes from and personally growing up I always shouted against England in everything. I don't anymore because I have many English friends now and I understand that you cannot hold a country responsible for things that happened way back long before their time.

The people I know are split into those that laugh at Dunphy and those who get very agitated by him but I'm sure tomorrow that the majority will all say that he was right about Rule Britannia. The thing is though that everybody talks about him and Giles as much as they do about the match.

Have you proof that Souness was wrong? Was it even refuted by somebody involved in the England setup? I haven't heard anything about it.

If you don't like what you are hearing on RTE, my advice to you is change the channel, its not that hard.

I'm hoping that England will beat Germany but they have to improve a lot on what they did today. I think experience will be a huge factor in this game and its England that have all the experience here. I really do think that this German team will win the next World Cup but not this one. I do think England have the talent to go very deep and even win it and I'll be delighted if they do.

jesus_thats_gre

DB10 wrote: »

You're a joke.:rolleyes:

Next time you want to make absolutely ridiculous posts prepare to be taken to task.

Sure it is far easier for you to ignore everyone elses opinion, just like you did yesterday with you bitter anti French vile.

Good call. The irony of you pointing out my bitter posts about the French (of which I was completely open and front about) while you pretend to have an impartial opinion on this English team and their chances in this world cup isn't lost on me.

DB10

Why don't these supposed England fans watch BBC and ITV where they can pander to their super human egos where even player on "their" team is world class and beating Slovenia 1-0 in a dire game, is a magnificent performance.

jesus_thats_gre

DB10 wrote: »

Why don't these supposed England fans watch BBC and ITV where they can pander to their super human egos where even player on "their" team is world class and beating Slovenia 1-0 in a dire game, is a magnificent performance.

Find one post from me where I have been anything but critical of their performances and chances of now winning this WC.

JerryHandbag

newballsplease wrote: »

Dont really wanna start a thread to ask this question but, it would be great if someone could answer.
What happens if 2 teams finish on same points,same goal difference, and the match the 2 teams played in, finished a draw?

who goes through to last 16?

Happened with Ireland and Holland in 1990, although with 3 teams going through the drawing of lots was just to decide who finished 2nd and 3rd in the group. I vaguely remember 2 balls being drawn out of a pot somewhere in FIFA HQ I presume...

ctrl-alt-delete

The first half from England was very good regardless of what team they were playing, but they let themselves down in the 2nd half.

The way some people are talking you would think Germany were setting the World Cup alight. They have slightly edged England so far.

Yes they had a great gam against Australia - but lets be honest, it was a defensive Australia team who went out basically happy to try keep the score down. They lost to Serbia, so what if they were a man down - they had plenty of chances to score and couldn't. I didn't see all the Ghana match today, only the 1st half. 1-0 wouldn't inspire me and Ghana caused them trouble in the first half.

Regardless of how crap anyone thinks England have been, this game is not going to be a walkover for the Germans. I actually fancy England to do them.

Fratton Fred

DB10 wrote: »

HAHAHAHA

Such a load of nonsense.

Listing out a bunch of average players and describing them as world class, doesn't mean they actually are. They haven't shown it so far have they?

And then you go on to say....



What a load of rubbish, never have I seen such contradicting, crazy opinions.

What is to blame then? Their world class manager?

Some people eh....

Have you ever actually seen a football match?

DB10

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Have you ever actually seen a football match?

I seen England embarrass themselves today and not for the first time.

Still bitter?