to baptise or not to baptise, that is the question

Nevyn

The majority of graveyards are own and run by the co councils and anyone can be buried in them.

http://www.rip.ie/menu.asp?menu=196

Information

Burial grounds (cemeteries) in Ireland are the responsibility of the local authorities, who operate many of them and appoint a registrar or caretaker for each of their burial ground to manage the sale of plots in that site, and in some cases to maintain the burial ground. If you want to purchase a burial plot, you must contact your local authority to get the contact details of this registrar. However, many funeral directors offer to handle the purchase of burial plots as part of their package of funeral services.

It is important to point out that many burial grounds or graveyards in Ireland are already full, and many local authorities place restrictions on the pre-purchase or buying in advance of burial plots, such as limiting advance buying to those over 65 years of age.

byhookorbycrook

kassie wrote: »

this is a bit of a morbid question but worth throwing in the mix all the same... i'm guessing an unbaptised child (should they pass away for whatever reason) cannot be buried in a family plot along side family members that may already be in a cemetery??? Where do unbaptised people get buried?

Long ago- when people believed in "Limbo" unbaptised children and people who had taken their own lives were not to be buried on church ground. Cillín -or "unofficial " graveyards were common enough then, but no more thankfully.

kassie

well thats good to know, myself and OH were under the impression that graveyards were owned by the church/parish and it was OH was concerned about it! Thanks for that info!

Cherrycola

I think its only if the graveyard is within church grounds that you cant be buried in it, if you're not baptised or have left the church, but i could be wrong on that.

I know all other graveyards are open to everyone, as has been said.

Qualitymark

If you can say the Credo and in honesty can believe it, then you should baptise; otherwise not.

CK2010

OP, am in a bit of a rush here but just wanted to say that myself and OH decided that we wouldnt baptise our girl, despite a few worries re school etc. we were too late applying for ET schools so we're just hoping she will be accepted into the local catholic school (shes nearly three now so wont be attending til shes five). still a bit worried tbh but theres nothing i can do really!

we will teach her about all religions and explain that mam and dad dont believe in any but if she does then we're happy with that and we'll allow her to talk with us about them. we've decided that if she asks about communion we'll explain it to her and if she wants it for religious reasons then she can be baptised, if its for the big day we'll just give her a big day! we'll get the dress, dinner everything, just not the church aspect, which some may not agree with but i dont think dressing it up as a religious celebration makes it any more acceptable than just doing it to let your child have her big day!

we're not going to refuse her a religion but we're not going to encourage her to choose one over another either. she can make an informed decision without a pre enforced (for want of a better word) link to a certain church, which for some kids can cause a good bit of guilt when questioning their faith.

on a side note, my main worries about not baptising (which were far outnumbered by the positive points may i add) was funerals and the likes. came across this one day which helped- http://www.humanism.ie/Resources/FunderalBrochure.pdf (hope that worked) its more about the person than god and cult like prayer which happens alot at catholic funerals. there are always alternatives to the traditional catholic ways. you just need to do some research. best of luck.

oh and i thought my mum would be upset but when i brought it up she said she didnt think it was my cup of tea anyway and she didnt care as long as baby is happy and healthy!

ps. we've been to hospital and stuff with her and through illnesses and such and never felt the need to pray to god or get an emergency baptismal or anything. may not be an issue for you but i had been asked many a time by people did i not want her baptised at times like that- in case. bit of a morbid point but it has come up so thought i might add it!

Ash.J.Williams

LostinKildare wrote: »

Don't be afraid to not baptise your kids. My child isn't baptised. He goes to the excellent Catholic school in our village. He is just finishing 2nd class and was the only kid in the class who didn't make his communion. (If anyone asked him why, he simply said "I'm not religious.") None of the other children gave him a hard time, in fact a few were jealous because he didn't have to go to mass on Sundays.

I felt a bit bad that he was missing out on an occasion where he'd be celebrated (he loves parties!) so for a treat we took him out of school for a few days to go on a special trip that focused on his own interests -- history and science. We went to Edinburgh. Great place for kids, oozes history, castle, fun ghost tours, wonderful children's science museum, zoo, and -- bonus! -- he got to learn about his (my) Scottish heritage (woo! we have a tartan!) and the Protestant Reformation. A revelation to him that there are other religions besides Catholicism, that people believe different things and have been fighting about it and killing each other for thousands of years!

We had told him last summer we'd find a priest to baptise him if he wanted to make his communion (a friend of mine did this with her daughter) but he didn't want to. It worked out well for us. The only point of contention was the money, because that's what it seems to come down to for most kids -- how much you got. Oh and the dress if you're a girl.

Well done, if everyone just get's baptised to fit in, then we'l be stuck like this forever, sounds like you have a very grounded kid too.

LostinKildare

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Well done, if everyone just get's baptised to fit in, then we'l be stuck like this forever, sounds like you have a very grounded kid too.

Thanks.:) I don't know, I think parents worry too much about their kids "fitting in," pushing conformity because we think they'll be more comfortable or safer that way. But don't we want them to be confident and true to themselves, and to value individuality in others?

Pythia

I'm not baptised and I'm very grateful to my parents for giving me the opportunity to choose a religion for myself if I want to and not forcing one on me. They resisted my granny's pressure and stuck with their decision.

I never felt left out or odd and am very happy with how it turned out. I'm lucky to have a partner who isn't baptised either so this won't be an issue when we have childten.

Butch Cassidy

kassie wrote: »

well thats good to know, myself and OH were under the impression that graveyards were owned by the church/parish and it was OH was concerned about it! Thanks for that info!

Is it a sad indictment of the control the church has over society that we're worried about our kids getting school places, being seen as outsiders and weirdos, accessing healthcare, nowhere to get married and nowhere to be buried when they die all over refusing to go along with a faith you have no belief in. It really is amazing that Ireland is blasse described as a "catholic country" because there are "sooo" many catholics yet their church figures have gone way down. It's these census figures they cling to where everyone ticks the "catholic" box.

The religion/babtism question has to be one of the biggest a parent's faced with and I think those that just go along with it for an easier life are essentially just avoiding the question/situation. Does this attitude spread to other areas of parentings? Leading to a point where the child grows up to beileve that you shouldn't question anything and just carry on accepting such trite as "that's just the way things are".

I have an unlimited amount of respect for parents that don't give in and can see the absurdity and perhaps immorality of religion by proxy. Fair play to ye all.

How Strange

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

there are "sooo" many catholics yet their church figures have gone way down. It's these census figures they cling to where everyone ticks the "catholic" box.

When I rang my maternity hospital last week and they were asking for my personal details, they asked my religion and after thinking about for a few seconds I said 'none'.

I think a few years ago I would've automatically said catholic.

Butch Cassidy

How Strange wrote: »

When I rang my maternity hospital last week and they were asking for my personal details, they asked my religion and after thinking about for a few seconds I said 'none'.

I think a few years ago I would've automatically said catholic.

Yeah I know the drill, been there a few times myself. Pretty much any time you go to a hospital for even an out-patients appt. they'll ask your religion. I think it's imperative for people who are not catholic to speak up at this point. I myself say none too. When I used to go to the hospital with my mother and I answered this question she'd go behind my back and say "Roman catholic".

Nevyn

http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2010/pc/pod-v-18061014m14slivelinegaelscoil.mp3

elius

Was in the hospital this morning and they asked my partner the same question what religion are you. "She said none". The lady kinda looked back kinda half shocked (nice lady though). I was deeply chuffed inside as i wont dictate my childs future in a mass cult. He/she can decide for herself when she's old enough. I 100% stand buy are decision..

Herself's parents where not to happy but its not there child. Hell the catholic church don't even no themselves what they are, they preach one thing and do the opposite..

Butch Cassidy

I had a question put to me by a friend who's a primary school teacher. As teenagers in school he was fierce critical of all the magical fairytale rubbish in the bible - parting of the sea etc. - so I would never have pegged him to embrace catholicism so much since becoming a teacher. Anyway, he asked me was it not better to at least bring kids up catholic and that way they're exposed to religion and will have a better chance of becoming religious as opposed to bring them up with no religion.

I put to him that well, why not just teach the kid about religions as part of the rearing. That way religion can be kept out of schools and there isn't a massive number of "catholics" by proxy. He had no response. Incidently enough he's opposed to the state/schools teaching kids about sex and what have you but somehow agrees that it's right for the state/school to be where kids are institutionalised with religious beliefs.

gbee

kassie wrote: »

anyone else with me on this?

29 years ago I did not have the guts not to Baptise my own children. Can't say if it was a problem as such and it was easier to trans through school etc. Careers are still somewhat effected by religion, not necessarily practising one and I don't see this changing in your child's lifetime.

Mellowing, for sure. I married my wife at a side alter, in a suit not a wedding dress as she was pregnant, and we did not believe in the church either, but it still means an easier life.

gbee

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

but somehow agrees that it's right for the state/school to be where kids are institutionalised with religious beliefs.

I believe the most important thing for a child is solid honest parents. No fairy tales of any kind, no God and No Santa ~ whilst there is plenty of opportunity to enjoy both things, once one has been honest and says there is no God and No Santa ... one can have imaginary friends, and it's not a made thing to have, as long as you know.

caseyann

Thaedydal wrote: »

No if they are baptised and the school has record of this then they will be part of the class and expected to take part in religion class.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055000841&highlight=baptism
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055851467&highlight=baptism
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055057491&highlight=baptism
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055465146&highlight=baptism
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055208121&highlight=baptism

You are mistaken my family are all catholics barr my nieces,neither of them christened.They went to catholic schools,and were not forced to partake in anything religious.The parents left it to the kids and they could draw or what ever.


When you sign your child up just make sure the teacher knows she is not allowed to point out that they are not christened,as kids can be the problem in the area of communion and confirmation.

SerialComplaint

ET schools aren't always practical. For us, it was the choice between the local Catholic school or the ET school about 5 miles away. So do we want to be tied into a commute by car and seperate our child from most of the nieghbours, or do we go with the local option.

We opted to baptise our child. As it happens, the Catholic school isn't turning anyone away at the moment, but there is no guarantee that this will always be the case.

We really do need to get the Church out of the schools. It should be an optional extra-curricular activity.

Butch Cassidy

SerialComplaint wrote: »

We really do need to get the Church out of the schools.

Yep and the hospitals.

Does anyone know if any politicians have taken this issue up? I know there were some mutterings a while back but I can't remember where each party/individual stands on it.

StormWarrior

Just tell them that you're having your kid doused in ketchup in homage to the flying spaghetti monster instead.

Nevyn

See the problem I have with the Flying spaghettie monster is that it ridcules those who have faith no matter what that is. I dont' have an issue with people who have faith and who are roman catholics and active memebers of thier faith community and I think ridculing people of faith is wrong.

I just wish they would accept that I don't want to be in thier club and that my kids shouldn't have to be either.

silverharp

my eldest will be going on 6 this year, he is not baptised but as he is going to a multi denominational school there wont be the same issues over all the catholic stuff. That being said there will be in a religious class of sorts "other" so not sure yet how "neutral" it will be.
We have started to introduce him to classical Greek myths and are explaining to him that this is how people tried to understand the world. We will follow it up with some of the OT stories but will take the same line that they are myths handed down.

Butch Cassidy

Thaedydal wrote: »

See the problem I have with the Flying spaghettie monster is that it ridcules those who have faith no matter what that is. I dont' have an issue with people who have faith and who are roman catholics and active memebers of thier faith community and I think ridculing people of faith is wrong.

I just wish they would accept that I don't want to be in thier club and that my kids shouldn't have to be either.

But this is the thing, they won't recognise that. It's "their school", their ethos, their religion and the whole drive of christianity/catholicism is to have everyone the same.


I too have no bother with active believers/members/practitioners of whatever religion but fact of the matter is that there are many many part-time catholics who phone it in.

d4v1d

kassie wrote: »

I'm 24 weeks pg and before i even go pg i've been struggling with the idea of a christening... neither myself nor my hubby are church goers, me personally i have no interest in the church or its beliefs at all, despite being brought up a catholic. Both mums very much believe in the church and i know would be devastated (not to mention very annoyed) if we didn't baptise the baby for fear "something would happen if we didn't" :eek: hubby feels we should go ahead and do it anyway and then let the child decide later in life if he/she wants to go to church. He/she will be attending our local catholic country school so the religion subject will be taught to the child but i feel very hypocritical having my child baptised when i don't believe for the sake of a school and being part of the communion ceremony in school and for the sake of our mothers... i really am torn on the subject! If i do decide to side with hubby and have the baby baptised, it will be such a low key affair...

anyone else with me on this?

i very much understand your predicament. our wee one is a week old today. before she was born we had to decide if she would be baptised or not. i was personally very much against it as i am not practicing, nor is my wife, and i have also had my baptism anulled.

the main reason we would have done it would have been to satisfy our parents and also to ensure it was easier to get a school place in future.

looking into the schools first, in a very recent report in the irish independant (last week) the catholic church has stated that is wants to reduce it's 90% control over the primary education of ireland. i have also been directed to www.carloweducatetogether.ie which is a school that does not seem to have religion on the curriculm. i have tried to contact the school to confirm but not received a reply yet. more than likely due to holidays.
anyway, the point i'm trying to make is that as the children born this year get to primary school age there should be more choice available and parents will not be stuck relying on the catholic church for educatation. if in your area you do not think you're not satisfied with the school options, contact your local td and try get them onto it. the more people that ask for more choice the better.

on the parents issue. what we are doing with our families is quite simple. our parents raised us as they saw fit. we will do the same with our child. we will never be bullied into raising our child in a manner that we do not agree to. we are going to tell the parents that we are thankful for raising us, but not to make an issue out of us deciding not to baptise our child. if there is a problem with that, then the problem will be with them and not us.
my own dad has already gotten an earful and i think he was a bit shocked with the bluntness and sincerity in my voice when i was chatting to him and he first broached the issue.

Nevyn

Congratulations on the arrival of your daughter d4v1d.

Educate together school are multidenominational.
How that works is that the children do have religion class but they are taught about all the different world religions and do not get religions indoctrination or religious instruction in any relgions during class time.

http://www.educatetogether.ie/et-experience/main-publications/

Multi-denominational

From its formation in the mid-1970s, Educate Together has defined this term to include all denominations of all faiths. Thus Educate Together schools are committed to the principle that all religious backgrounds should be equally respected in the operation of the school. Included in this definition are humanist, agnostic and atheistic viewpoints and a generic concept of ‘personal creed’.

The term ‘respect’ is carefully chosen. There is a clear distinction made between the concept of accommodation or tolerance of difference and the concept of respect. Toleration and accommodation inherently imply that a majority view must make allowances for minority views and minorities must make requests to achieve this accommodation; respect implies care and equal treatment as of right.

In practice, the objective of an Educate Together school is to create a school culture and practice in which the identity of every child is guaranteed active support. Neither the child nor parents or guardians should have to ask for that respect to be given.

The school works hard to create a positive, comfortable atmosphere. The underlying concept is that human diversity enhances life, enriches cultures and provides huge educational resources for current and future generations.
The Ethical Education Curriculum

In an Educate Together school, the daily period of time set aside for the patron’s religious education programme is used to deliver our Ethical Education Curriculum. This programme is called the “Learn Together” curriculum and is published by Educate Together. It is subject to review and development by the Education Committee and decisions at Annual General Meetings of the organisation. A copy of the curriculum is available from the school or from Educate Together.

The programme is divided into four strands ‘Moral and Spiritual Development’, ‘Justice and Equality’, ‘Belief Systems’ and ‘Ethics and the Environment’. The curriculum specifically addresses the Educate Together ethos and it is here that the values that the school seeks to model in its ‘characteristic spirit’ are articulated and explained in greater depth.

In the strand called ‘Belief Systems’, the programme explains and explores the major belief systems in the world in an educational manner, teaching children about these faiths and beliefs without endorsing any particular one as religious truth. During the year, an Educate Together school may mark – in an age appropriate way – festivals such as Chinese New Year, Easter, Bealtaine, Hindu Festival of Lights (Diwali), Harvest Festivals, Samhain (Halloween), Ramadan and Eid, Hannuka and Christmas. The programme allows the school to explore the similarities and differences with the older celebrations that underlie many of these festivals. Examples would be the Celtic festivals and practices that underpin Easter or the solistice festivals that occur around Christmas.

It is normal that the treatment of these events becomes integrated into the whole school programme, involving drama, art, music, history and geography and also in many cases, parental and community participation. This may mean exploring wider cultural themes such as cuisine and family celebrations. The range of such activities within an individual school will be determined by local conditions.

The educational aim of this work is to model positive information about world faiths in a respectful atmosphere which highlights rights and responsibilities.
Doctrinal Instruction

In addition to offering the ethical education programme, Boards of Management of Educate Together schools enable any group of parents who wish to use the facilities of the school outside school hours to organise specific doctrinal instruction classes. In most Educate Together schools, for instance, Roman Catholic sacramental preparation is available in these out-of-hours programmes; these are organised by Roman Catholic parents often with the direct participation of the local parish. These classes mix naturally with other extra-curricular activities of the school. Parents of other faiths are similarly facilitated. It is important to note however, that the Board is not responsible for the establishment of such classes and is only involved in so far as to ensure that they are responsibly organised, covered by insurance and that the necessary steps have been taken to ensure the safety of the children attending. There is never any obligation placed on a child, parent or staff member to become involved in doctrinal instruction.

This approach to ‘multi-denominationalism’ has a number of consequences:

* When this model of school ethos is conscientiously implemented, no child is ever placed in a position in which they feel themselves an outsider in the school programme because of their family or individual identity. The approach minimises the situations in which parents or children feel the need to absent themselves from aspects of school life.
* It maximises the school’s ability to address the religious rights of all families without favour or discrimination.
* Responsibility for religious formation of children is assumed to be that of the family and religious organisations, while the responsibility of the school is to provide a safe, caring and respectful environment for all children. This encourages children to have a strong and secure contact with their own identity and comfort in interaction with people of different faiths and persuasions.
* The human rights of teachers and other workers in the school are addressed, as staff are never placed in a position in which they may be required to put forward as religious truth a viewpoint that they may not themselves hold.

Whilst Educate Together holds that this way of treating religious difference in an Irish school context offers many advantages, we appreciate that there are families for whom this model may not be suitable. For instance, an Educate Together school depends on parents who are happy to allow their children to explore and be exposed to different religious views and who do not regard it as their religious duty to seek to persuade others of their beliefs. In the case of families who observe strict guidelines around their children’s exposure to artwork, games or sports of other faiths, a denominational school of their conscience, or a recognised programme of home education may well be a more appropriate choice. If such options are not available in the locality, however, Educate Together schools will attempt to handle these questions as sensitively as possible. From an educational perspective, the inclusive nature of the Educate Together ethical programme permeates and influences all teaching in the school. The focus is on an explorative approach to learning that is managed and facilitated by the teacher. Children are encouraged to gain personal understandings in a creative and supportive learning environment. They are encouraged to evaluate information, form judgements and articulate these judgements in a supportive, respectful and safe environment.

Educate Together schools promote an approach to education which is based on the core values of mutual respect, self-esteem, dignity and critical awareness.

The child is formally recognised as a participant in the education process and a valued part of the learning organisation that is Educate Together. Participation in school affairs and listening to the voices of the children is part of the democracy that underpins the school. This core value of partnership aims to nurture a deep appreciation of the concepts of participation and rights in society, organisations and the world.

The approach taken to ethical education in Educate Together schools aims to directly promote the life skills that are essential to a generation of children, growing up into a diverse and varied social environment. Their adult experience will be genuinely global in scope.
Co-educational

The co-educational principle was included in the Educate Together Charter at a time when coeducational schools were in a minority. Today, this is no longer the case and the significance of this element of our charter has changed. It now obliges the Board of an Educate Together school to work to ensure that all children are empowered to fulfil their potential irrespective of gender.

Co-educational education is far more than simply putting girls and boys into the same classroom and teaching them the same curriculum. Instead it should ensure that the school develops a comprehensive programme to counter gender stereotyping in all its forms. Schools should be proactive in promoting an approach to learning that encourages and supports the wide variety and range of talents among the children irrespective of gender.

This is a complex issue that a school cannot solve on its own; nevertheless it must be addressed and discussed within schools in partnership with parents, teachers and students. The significance of this element of a school’s work should not be underestimated. The rebalancing of gender roles based on equality and respect is central to the growth and development of society and Educate Together is committed to ensuring that children are given every opportunity to explore and develop an equitable approach to gender. As a result of its place in Educate Together’s Charter, active encouragement of children of both sexes, and the combating of gender-based discrimination is an important part of the ‘school plan’ in an Educate Together school.
Child-centred

The Curriculum of National Schools and the approach adopted in the training of National School teachers has been defined as “child-centred” for many years. However, the inclusion of this term in the Educate Together Charter as a founding principle means rather more than the definition of a teaching philosophy or the articulation of the national curriculum. It defines another element of the policy formation of an Educate Together school. It obliges its Board to take decisions primarily based on the broad educational and developmental needs of the children over and above other external factors. This for instance, would influence decisions on opening hours, school holidays, code of behaviour and allocation of funds. Many of these decisions involve striking a balance between conflicting obligations. Nevertheless, this aspect of Educate Together’s Charter ensures that the needs of the children of the school strongly influence the decision making process.

It should be noted that we refer to the “children of the school”. A school is a collective organisation that strives to address the individual needs of every child. However, any school must balance these needs with the general interests of all the children.
Democratically-run

All Educate Together schools have been set up by volunteer groups of parents in a community. As patron body, Educate Together facilitates this process and empowers those involved by providing advice, training and support in negotiating with relevant organisations, including the Department of Education and Science. The key stakeholders in the process are the parents and supporters who tackle the difficult and complex task of establishing the school. As a result, parents have a vital role in the operation of the school and its ethos reflects this. High levels of parental involvement in the work of the school are encouraged. The Charter of Educate Together obliges the school’s Board to encourage and welcome this involvement whilst balancing it with an equal obligation to “positively affirm the professional role of the teacher”.

Educate Together schools have been pioneers in the development of the concept of partnership between parents and teachers in the operation of schools. A critical element of this lies in the involvement of parents and guardians in the educational process itself. This is achieved through the provision of support for the teacher inside and outside the classroom and in providing educational activities that are not available to the school in the normal way.

Examples of such support include:

* participation in classroom activities
* the organising of extra-curricular activities
* participation in educational support activities such as paired reading.
* help with the artistic, musical, dramatic, linguistic or science and technology programmes
* support in the delivery of the ethical curriculum
* support in the maintenance of the school building
* serving on Boards of Management and other school committees.

Educate Together and the Community

Once a school opens itself up to the participation of parents, guardians, grandparents and the community, it has access to a wide and rich range of resources that would be impossible to provide by funding alone. This is of great support to the teachers in the school and of immense educational benefit to the children.

It requires skill and care to operate a primary school which respects the delicate balance between the intense individual commitment of parents to their child’s education and the professional, objective care and attention of highly qualified teaching professionals. Educate Together is committed to ensuring that schools nurture this partnership and provides training and support for school Boards in order to maximise the potential of this approach.

The involvement of parents in partnership with the staff provide children with examples of practical community co-operation. This is a powerful support to the values articulated in the classroom. Children thrive in this atmosphere and are similarly inspired to work together in diverse settings in order to achieve common goals.

This approach to education promotes the democratic involvement of children in the school. We have found that it is possible to operate effective Students’ Councils in primary schools and that it is vital to the success of codes of behaviour that children and parents directly participate in the drawing up of such policies. Once children have a safe space in which they can participate, assured of support of teachers and parents, they can influence the growth of many other school policies and have done so very successfully. In recent years, for instance, many school environmental policies have been successfully driven by children’s committees and have resulted in the awarding of Green Flags to many schools.
Conclusion

This is a very brief overview of some of the key concepts involved in the Educate Together model of National School in Ireland.

Educate Together does not claim any exclusive rights to these ideas. Many of them are implemented in other schools in Ireland and abroad and we fully endorse the efforts of dedicated educators operating in schools of different patronage.

We do not see our future as an exclusive or niche provider in the Irish system. Rather we see the sector as part of a complementary development, providing choice where there has been no choice. We are committed to work with other providers to bring the structure of primary education into balance with the needs of our rapidly changing society and to address the human rights of children, parents and teachers. We hope that this booklet has been helpful in answering some of the questions about an Educate Together school and our aims as an educational charity. If you would like to know more, would like to enrol your child in an Educate Together school or help us with our work, further information is available from our website or from our national office. We look forward to meeting and working with many people and organisations to provide an educational system that is inclusive and respectful of all.

Podgoricka

Personally (and this is only my opinion so dont slate me ) I would not want to baptise my children (along time down the road.. unless something terrible goes wrong ) I haven't been to mass in years and don't intent to either go for many more years.. And if i do have to go for a certain reason i.e. family funeral etc, I wouldn't go up for the communion part. Id find it very hypocritical then to baptize my child, a ritual (or what ever the correct term is) I have no belief in. I would leave it up to my child to decide when they are old enough to understand religion and what baptism was. But i'm fairly sure they wouldn't want to be baptized if they seen what religion in like nowadays. I feel very hard done by the face I had no choice about being baptized, getting 1st holy communion and confirmation.

Sizzler

Was listening to Newstalk on the way into work this morning and they were talking about baptising children just for the sake of getting the child into the best school in years to come, not because of the religious aspect.

Mods, before I go any further I posted this here and not religion forums as I thought this might be more balanced and relevant, hope thats OK

Anyway,sort of got me thinking, not sure if we would get our kids christened as we arent practising catholics, dont know many people of my generation who are tbh so theres no real reason why we would unless it was a barrier to getting into the local school.

Any other parents or parents to be out there with this quandry? There was people texting in newstalk this morning saying they had no issues getting their kids in to the local school even thought they werent baptised but on the other hand there was people saying they had to do it to ensure their place, one guy said they were refused a place so he just went and got his 4 yr old baptised and all was OK then ! People were making valid points about letting the kids decide when they are older what they want to do, if they are interested in religion (any kind!) then they can make their own call instead of the decision being made for them, Im tending to lean towards this plus the fact Im not really that bothered with religion myself and probably wouldnt set a great example in the years ahead!

Thoiughts? Anybody any experience of the above?

delly

I have a 3 year old and myself and my wife come from your typical Catholic backround having grown up Dublin. From an early age I really found myself apathetic towards religion but went beyond being just a lapsed Catholic to the point where I'd declared zero interest in it as a whole.

We ended up getting married in a registry office and have not baptised our daughter. We are lucky in the fact that we have an educate together school nearby, so having religion to get a place won't be an issue. Even if we didn't though, there is no way I would get her baptised just for a school place. I can recognise that religion is a very big thing while also not participating in any form of it, so I wouldn't make such a big decision as choosing my daughters future religion on her behalf.

If in years to come she does her own soul searching and wants to be Catholic, Muslim or Jewish then I will be happy for her and will support her decision.

smelltheglove

I had my kids christened, people may say I am not a practising catholic as I dont attend church but I dont believe that is true. I believe being a catholic does not mean you need to go to church, I believe in God, I believe in a holier power and I believe in a lot of the values the church teaches, like respect thy neighbour etc. When I do go to church it is usually when I am photographing a wedding to be honest, I dont think that just because I believe I should have to listen to someone preach once a week or more, I dont think that is what religion is about, in my view and I do know a fair few others with the same opinion as me.

As with school, I was asked for a baptism certificate for my daughter when I put her into school.