Berlin 2016: Back to Basics

TheRoadRunner

theboyblunder wrote: »

Do you take tea/coffee with your meals? Ligands in these sequester non-heme iron (the only type available to you if you dont eat meat).

If so either skipping them 1 h before or for 2 hours after is a good idea. Else take orange juice/vit c tablet with your dinner. Ascorbic acid (vit C) is a ligand which competes with those in the tea/coffee, but leaves the iron in bioavailable form...

No avoid tea/coffee at meal times. Tannins are the bad guys that interfere with iron absorption. I eat red meat 1-2 times a week and didn't really replace this with other high iron sources. Had steak with beans Saturday evening and roast beef and lots of broccoli yesterday. Back on form today

Abhainn

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

No avoid tea/coffee at meal times. Tannins are the bad guys that interfere with iron absorption. I eat red meat 1-2 times a week and didn't really replace this with other high iron sources. Had steak with beans Saturday evening and roast beef and lots of broccoli yesterday. Back on form today

Well you seem to be catching up on the lost iron over the weekend. Nothing like a good chunk of steak or roast beef.

I had a similar long run fuel depletion two weeks back. Even though I was running on fumes 2 miles from home I managed to keep the pace up.
Look on it as a positive though fro Berlin as you will have learned from it

Looking at your 10 miler splits, as usual an impressive 2nd 5 miles (circ 10 secs slower than the first).
Your a great man for the negative splits and almost pulled it off again.
Almost there

TheRoadRunner

Abhainn wrote: »

Looking at your 10 miler splits, as usual an impressive 2nd 5 miles (circ 10 secs slower than the first).
Your a great man for the negative splits and almost pulled it off again.
Almost there

Just had a quick look at splits and they weren't as good as you thought. ~27.30 for first 5 and ~28.20 for second 5. I reckon that is even enough when the course is taken into consideration.

Have had some great PMs lately commenting on my training and what realistic marathon pace on race day for me should be. Also some info on how best to run my goal time, i.e take off slightly slower and finish fast etc. So thanks to LB in particular and feel free to post comments in log.

Monday: am 8 miles @ 7.20 pace along canal bank and trails. PM 6 miles @ 7.30 pace. Nothing too hectic legs feeling very good.

Tuesday: 8.5 miles @ 7.30 pace on country roads. Ran with a friend who was very tired so pace was slightly slower than usual, no harm though and an enjoyable run.

Wednesday: 14 miles with 10 @ 5.49 pace. Wasn't planning running this fast at all. Goal pace was 6 min/mile but had 2 lads helping me get through this and they were jumping in and out so pace was constantly fluctuating. Felt really good until the last mile where I had to dig in to finish. Turns out this was one of the fastest miles, so that explains that. Nice little confidence booster.

Weight has come down again. I'm now 7lbs lighter than my previous lowest ever racing weight for a marathon.

Larry Brent

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

10 @ 5.49 pace.

Looking good. The 10 mile is now out of your system and you're seeing the benefits of that 'training effort'. Just don't overcook it now!

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I'm now 7lbs lighter

Crucial.

TheRoadRunner

Larry Brent wrote: »

Looking good. The 10 mile is now out of your system and you're seeing the benefits of that 'training effort'. Just don't overcook it now!

Definitely good advice, todays effort felt fine. Legs are grand now but my tummy is on ribbons. May actually have dehydrated slightly. In previous marathons I've either peaked too soon or too late. I think I'll be close to peaking on the day. Probably won't do anything as long&hard as today again. Next weeks long run will have some MP miles thrown in however.

Yeah weight is a big difference this cycle. Normally I use marathons to shed excess weight and get base miles in before targeting 5miles etc. Actually did the reverse this year so hopefully I'll actually be able to race Berlin.

Pronator

Olympics - London 2012;) Your in some shape.

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Just had a quick look at splits and they weren't as good as you thought. ~27.30 for first 5 and ~28.20 for second 5. I reckon that is even enough when the course is taken into consideration.

Have had some great PMs lately commenting on my training and what realistic marathon pace on race day for me should be. Also some info on how best to run my goal time, i.e take off slightly slower and finish fast etc. So thanks to LB in particular and feel free to post comments in log.

Monday: am 8 miles @ 7.20 pace along canal bank and trails. PM 6 miles @ 7.30 pace. Nothing too hectic legs feeling very good.

Tuesday: 8.5 miles @ 7.30 pace on country roads. Ran with a friend who was very tired so pace was slightly slower than usual, no harm though and an enjoyable run.

Wednesday: 14 miles with 10 @ 5.49 pace. Wasn't planning running this fast at all. Goal pace was 6 min/mile but had 2 lads helping me get through this and they were jumping in and out so pace was constantly fluctuating. Felt really good until the last mile where I had to dig in to finish. Turns out this was one of the fastest miles, so that explains that. Nice little confidence booster.

Weight has come down again. I'm now 7lbs lighter than my previous lowest ever racing weight for a marathon.

ecoli

Great to see you going so well. Berlin will be a walk in the park to you. Overall how are the legs coping the last few weeks with the higher mileage this must be one of your longest sustained stints at that mileage?

TheRoadRunner

ecoli wrote: »

Great to see you going so well. Berlin will be a walk in the park to you. Overall how are the legs coping the last few weeks with the higher mileage this must be one of your longest sustained stints at that mileage?

Funny you should say that, passed 2000 miles for the year today

On average I'm running 15-20 more miles than I've done before in marathon training and I'm finding it no problem at all. Some days I'm a little flat but overall it's fine. I've split it into blocks of 3 weeks hard one easy. It's hard getting back into the rhythm of things after the down week but without that step back week I'd be injured by now I feel.

Some of the additional miles come from double days. These really suit me recovery wise. Before I would have run 8 miles in one go on an easy day, now I'm doing something like 6&4 in the am/pm or 6&6. Working out well for me recovery wise and has had a major role in weight reduction also I feel.

TheRoadRunner

Pronator wrote: »

Olympics - London 2012;) Your in some shape.

Have an entry for the London marathon in April and tickets for one of the Athletics evenings. If only I could combine the two

ecoli

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Funny you should say that, passed 2000 miles for the year today

On average I'm running 15-20 more miles than I've done before in marathon training and I'm finding it no problem at all. Some days I'm a little flat but overall it's fine. I've split it into blocks of 3 weeks hard one easy. It's hard getting back into the rhythm of things after the down week but without that step back week I'd be injured by now I feel.

Some of the additional miles come from double days. These really suit me recovery wise. Before I would have run 8 miles in one go on an easy day, now I'm doing something like 6&4 in the am/pm or 6&6. Working out well for me recovery wise and has had a major role in weight reduction also I feel.

Will have to really step up my game over next few months to keep you looking over your shoulder for me next year so;)

Brianderunner

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Have an entry for the London marathon in April and tickets for one of the Athletics evenings. If only I could combine the two

Going over to London twice aint that big a deal, sure i do it 10 times a year

If you cant make/ decide not to do the London marathon, the number won't go to waste if you know what i mean Also if you dont want to go to the athletics, your ticket will find a good home!

Abhainn

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Some of the additional miles come from double days. These really suit me recovery wise. Before I would have run 8 miles in one go on an easy day, now I'm doing something like 6&4 in the am/pm or 6&6. Working out well for me recovery wise and has had a major role in weight reduction also I feel.

Thats interesting in that the doubles are aiding recovery and weight loss.

I lost some weight in recent weeks but stuck at similar weight now as last year just before Dublin marathon.

Nice 10 @ 05:49 too

Krusty_Clown

10@5:49 is bloody impressive in training. That's a 58:15 ten mile run, right there. I'd imagine you could expect some amount of stomach upset after a session like that. That's a lot of stress on the body, no matter how fast you are.

So are you planning on walking sections of this one, or are you going to man-up and run the whole way?

TheRoadRunner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

10@5:49 is bloody impressive in training. That's a 58:15 ten mile run, right there. I'd imagine you could expect some amount of stomach upset after a session like that. That's a lot of stress on the body, no matter how fast you are.

So are you planning on walking sections of this one, or are you going to man-up and run the whole way?

Hopefully no leg cramps etc. Have only managed to run 1 (London) without having to stop briefly. Went out easy and picked up the second half in that one so I'm sure there's a lesson to be learned.

TheRoadRunner

21 Days to Berlin

Thursday: am 6 miles on grass @ 7.20 pace. PM 4 miles on roads @ 7.30 pace. Legs feeling grand in the morning but a familiar tightness in my right hamstring raised it's ugly head in the evening run.

Friday: 9 miles @ 6.40 pace on roads. Legs feeling great but hamstring pain has moved north and is now officially a pain in my arse.

Saturday: 20 miles @ 7.05. Apprehensive about this and was going to bale on it as it could seriously aggravate hamstring niggle. Played it safe and was never too far from my own or my in laws house so could have stopped if I felt a problem developing. Felt fine although tightness still there.

Sunday: 5+ miles @ 7.30 pace. Recovery run on road. Feeling OK.

Hamstring niggle is nothing serious but is a concern. My right hammer has a weakness in it from a few years ago when I raced like an eejit over a 2 week period and tweaked it. Haven't felt it in a while but it reappears whenever I overdo it or fatigue sets in. I may have overdone it slightly lately. Mileage is going to start decrease next week onwards and will get to the magician so everything should be fine.

TheRoadRunner

Forgot to mention 82 miles for the week and 2056 for the year

TheRoadRunner

17 Days to Berlin

Monday: 6 miles @ 6.35 pace. Handy run on the roads.

Tuesday: 6 miles @ 6.31. Ran last 4 miles at a good clip 6.10, 6, 5.50, 5.40. All into the wind just wanted to run fast so went for it. If I had of put my hands out like an aeroplane I would have taken off.

Wednesday: 12 miles @ 7.04 pace along canal banks with friend. Super easy run, would have liked to do another 2 miles but time was against me.

Thursday: 10 miles @ 6.29 pace, handy first 5 miles was feeling on top of the world so opened up the throttle again for the last 5. Loving it, peaking on target.

In the shape of my life, feel like I can run as fast as I like. Tuesday's run was the perfect example, I wanted to run each mile 10 seconds quicker than the last and even with a horrible wind in my face I could hit the target with relative ease. Last long tough run on Saturday. Doing 12 miles then jumping into BHAA 10k at running it at MP with last 2 miles slightly faster. Works out well, find it hard to do the MP stuff so will be easier in a crowd and we also have a team so added bonus.

Hammer is on the mend as well obviously, a little tightness there but looking after it and with 2 week taper approaching it will be sorted to D-day

ecoli

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

17 Days to Berlin

Monday: 6 miles @ 6.35 pace. Handy run on the roads.

Tuesday: 6 miles @ 6.31. Ran last 4 miles at a good clip 6.10, 6, 5.50, 5.40. All into the wind just wanted to run fast so went for it. If I had of put my hands out like an aeroplane I would have taken off.

Wednesday: 12 miles @ 7.04 pace along canal banks with friend. Super easy run, would have liked to do another 2 miles but time was against me.

Thursday: 10 miles @ 6.29 pace, handy first 5 miles was feeling on top of the world so opened up the throttle again for the last 5. Loving it, peaking on target.

In the shape of my life, feel like I can run as fast as I like. Tuesday's run was the perfect example, I wanted to run each mile 10 seconds quicker than the last and even with a horrible wind in my face I could hit the target with relative ease. Last long tough run on Saturday. Doing 12 miles then jumping into BHAA 10k at running it at MP with last 2 miles slightly faster. Works out well, find it hard to do the MP stuff so will be easier in a crowd and we also have a team so added bonus.

Hammer is on the mend as well obviously, a little tightness there but looking after it and with 2 week taper approaching it will be sorted to D-day

What pace you planning for the 12 miler before the race? I have a 10 miler around 6.20ish pace but could go faster if you planned on doing these miles @ pace if you fancied company. Im in work for 12 so cant make the race so I was planning a more MP paced run

TheRoadRunner

ecoli wrote: »

What pace you planning for the 12 miler before the race? I have a 10 miler around 6.20ish pace but could go faster if you planned on doing these miles @ pace if you fancied company. Im in work for 12 so cant make the race so I was planning a more MP paced run

Would love the company but the pace would be too fast for me. Will probably do the 12 anywhere between 6.30-7 min pace but probably closer to 7 if I'm honest. If you change your plans give me a shout

brownian

Savage running, TRR. You're certainly on form. Berlin better make sure there's nothing flammable on the roadsides!

ecoli

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Would love the company but the pace would be too fast for me. Will probably do the 12 anywhere between 6.30-7 min pace but probably closer to 7 if I'm honest. If you change your plans give me a shout

No worries wasnt sure if the your plan was the whole run @ MP or just the race (thought I would be the one to be too slow for you:o). Should be around during the week and next week if you looking for someone to keep ya sane during taper madness:D

Krusty_Clown

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

17 Days to Berlin

Monday: 6 miles @ 6.35 pace. Handy run on the roads.

Tuesday: 6 miles @ 6.31. Ran last 4 miles at a good clip 6.10, 6, 5.50, 5.40. All into the wind just wanted to run fast so went for it. If I had of put my hands out like an aeroplane I would have taken off.

Wednesday: 12 miles @ 7.04 pace along canal banks with friend. Super easy run, would have liked to do another 2 miles but time was against me.

Thursday: 10 miles @ 6.29 pace, handy first 5 miles was feeling on top of the world so opened up the throttle again for the last 5. Loving it, peaking on target.

In the shape of my life, feel like I can run as fast as I like. Tuesday's run was the perfect example, I wanted to run each mile 10 seconds quicker than the last and even with a horrible wind in my face I could hit the target with relative ease. Last long tough run on Saturday. Doing 12 miles then jumping into BHAA 10k at running it at MP with last 2 miles slightly faster. Works out well, find it hard to do the MP stuff so will be easier in a crowd and we also have a team so added bonus.

Hammer is on the mend as well obviously, a little tightness there but looking after it and with 2 week taper approaching it will be sorted to D-day

Beautiful... Just beautiful... This marathon training stuff really suits you.

brownian

ecoli wrote: »

No worries wasnt sure if the your plan was the whole run @ MP or just the race (thought I would be the one to be too slow for you:o). Should be around during the week and next week if you looking for someone to keep ya sane during taper madness:D

I think ecoli and I are thinking of 12-15 at 7:00/mile or so at the weekend (Sat 0900, the Park?)...if you fancy a slow and easy jog. Where' the BHAA thing? I don't think either ecoli or I is inflexible vis-a-vis venue.

Pronator

Your in some shape TRR. Keep it steady for the next couple of weeks and you will do something big in Berlin;) Your in savage shape.

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

17 Days to Berlin

Monday: 6 miles @ 6.35 pace. Handy run on the roads.

Tuesday: 6 miles @ 6.31. Ran last 4 miles at a good clip 6.10, 6, 5.50, 5.40. All into the wind just wanted to run fast so went for it. If I had of put my hands out like an aeroplane I would have taken off.

Wednesday: 12 miles @ 7.04 pace along canal banks with friend. Super easy run, would have liked to do another 2 miles but time was against me.

Thursday: 10 miles @ 6.29 pace, handy first 5 miles was feeling on top of the world so opened up the throttle again for the last 5. Loving it, peaking on target.

In the shape of my life, feel like I can run as fast as I like. Tuesday's run was the perfect example, I wanted to run each mile 10 seconds quicker than the last and even with a horrible wind in my face I could hit the target with relative ease. Last long tough run on Saturday. Doing 12 miles then jumping into BHAA 10k at running it at MP with last 2 miles slightly faster. Works out well, find it hard to do the MP stuff so will be easier in a crowd and we also have a team so added bonus.

Hammer is on the mend as well obviously, a little tightness there but looking after it and with 2 week taper approaching it will be sorted to D-day

TheRoadRunner

brownian wrote: »

I think ecoli and I are thinking of 12-15 at 7:00/mile or so at the weekend (Sat 0900, the Park?)...if you fancy a slow and easy jog. Where' the BHAA thing? I don't think either ecoli or I is inflexible vis-a-vis venue.

Race is in firehouse which is close to where ecoli resides. We could meet up at tallaght ac and run a few miles up around the waterworks and around tallaght? Suit yourselves though.

TheRoadRunner

brownian wrote: »

Savage running, TRR. You're certainly on form. Berlin better make sure there's nothing flammable on the roadsides!

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Beautiful... Just beautiful... This marathon training stuff really suits you.

Pronator wrote: »

Your in some shape TRR. Keep it steady for the next couple of weeks and you will do something big in Berlin;) Your in savage shape.

Thanks lads. I've an awful feeling my posts of joy are setting me up for an epic fail. But feck it, things are going well and hopefully I will get a bit of luck on the day.

ecoli

brownian wrote: »

I think ecoli and I are thinking of 12-15 at 7:00/mile or so at the weekend (Sat 0900, the Park?)...if you fancy a slow and easy jog. Where' the BHAA thing? I don't think either ecoli or I is inflexible vis-a-vis venue.

What day we doing that long run Sat or Sunday? Just remembered reference said Weekend:o

brownian

According to TRR's post #528, the BHAA thing is Saturday...presumably we meet him tomorrow (venue?), try to hold onto him for a while, then let him loose on the unsuspecting BHAA people.

ecoli

brownian wrote: »

According to TRR's post #528, the BHAA thing is Saturday...presumably we meet him tomorrow (venue?), try to hold onto him for a while, then let him loose on the unsuspecting BHAA people.

Grand so Ill push back MP session to sunday. So meet at TAC clubhouse yeah that okay with everyone? what time about 9 to give RR a chance get up to race and get number and that sorted after the 12 miles?

brownian

OK. 0900 at TAC it is. Never been there, but seems to be same road as Cycle SuperStore?