Berlin 2016: Back to Basics

shels4ever

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

why do you say that

Maybe the word Jog to start with , not sure a 18:50 5k is a jog really:D

TheRoadRunner

shels4ever wrote: »

Maybe the word Jog to start with , not sure a 18:50 5k is a jog really:D

maybe. Obviously I wasn't jogging but the first 10 miles of a marathon are head wrecking. You want to run them sensibly so you are on target but have to make sure you don't blow it by going off too fast. First 10 miles are supposed to glide by and take nothing out of you, just like a jog

ecoli

I say the weird tactics part prob refers to sub threshold pace when you are already running low on glycogen can be a dangerous move like most people wouldnt respond well to such an increase in pace even if it is the last 6 miles. Havin said that I like the approach and think it worked very well

Fair play took a chance and it came off fair play

Seres

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

why do you say that

ya it was the word jog alright , i havent done any marathons but i suppose i would have thought leaving all the really hard work in the last 6 miles on tired legs high risk ,you seemed to be well within your limits though with a two minute negative split so it worked out ok .

TheRoadRunner

ecoli wrote: »

I say the weird tactics part prob refers to sub threshold pace when you are already running low on glycogen can be a dangerous move like most people wouldnt respond well to such an increase in pace even if it is the last 6 miles. Havin said that I like the approach and think it worked very well

Fair play took a chance and it came off fair play

In fairness if I wasn't feeling good I wouldn't have upped the pace and kept it constant instead. Also, excellent carbo loading and 5 gels meant I never even approached the dreaded wall.

Seres wrote: »

ya it was the word jog alright , i haven't done any marathons but i suppose i would have thought leaving all the really hard work in the last 6 miles on tired legs high risk ,you seemed to be well within your limits though with a two minute negative split so it worked out ok .

Sorry jog was a bit pretentious, I wanted to get to 10 miles and feel like I starting fresh. I think speeding up later in the race is better than "banking" minutes at the start. Heading off too quick has more risks in my opinion. I've been there, Dublin 2007. Blew up at 17 miles and swore I'd always keep something in reserve in the future.

I'm not been arsey by the way was just wondering why you guys thought it was risky.

Krusty_Clown

Effort-wise it seems like a great strategy and lowest possible risk if your strategy is to run your best possible time (as opposed to hitting a specific time goal). How did your club-mate get on (the guy who ran with us in the race series half?

Seres

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Sorry jog was a bit pretentious, I wanted to get to 10 miles and feel like I starting fresh. I think speeding up later in the race is better than "banking" minutes at the start. Heading off too quick has more risks in my opinion. I've been there, Dublin 2007. Blew up at 17 miles and swore I'd always keep something in reserve in the future.

I'm not been arsey by the way was just wondering why you guys thought it was risky.

i agree with you there , banking in any race is a bad idea , IMO more often than not it comes back on you and if it doesnt then your target was too soft . Just as a matter of interest how far off the 2.37 target were you at 10k out ?

TheRoadRunner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Effort-wise it seems like a great strategy and lowest possible risk if your strategy is to run your best possible time (as opposed to hitting a specific time goal). How did your club-mate get on (the guy who ran with us in the race series half?

He had a bit of a disaster. Calf went on him and he hobbled home. Had to sign a medical waiver before they'd let him continue. In fairness a PB in a half marathon the week before a marathon is not ideal preparation. We've had a chat

dermCu

Savage stuff, well done.
Not just on a great race but also on the way you built up to it over the years. You did it with style. Inspiring.

brownian

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Effort-wise it seems like a great strategy and lowest possible risk if your strategy is to run your best possible time (as opposed to hitting a specific time goal). How did your club-mate get on (the guy who ran with us in the race series half?

Hmmm, this is an interesting sub-discussion. I guess that overall it's not that different to the usual advice of "steady all the way, give it socks near the end if you've something in the tank", but it's good to see it being applied (and so successfully).

tunguska

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

No way was I getting chicked by a little bloke. Hit the Brandenburg gate with her and then I full out sprinted to the end.

I was watching the clips from 35 and 40 km and thinking, no way hes gonna let that chick beat him.
Think your tactics were sound, not high risk at all. I mean theres more than one way to skin a cat.

Brianderunner

You broke 2 mins for 800m? that's arguably better than Sundays run. Would be interesting to see what you could do for 800m next summer if you go for it.

I won't be posting the "we are the champions" photo by the way, so you're safe!

TheRoadRunner

Brianderunner wrote: »

You broke 2 mins for 800m? that's arguably better than Sundays run. Would be interesting to see what you could do for 800m next summer if you go for it.

I won't be posting the "we are the champions" photo by the way, so you're safe!

Yeah I use to run 800s, went back to the track 6-7 years ago and ran 2.03 but didn't enjoy it at the time. In fairness I hadn't put in a decent winters training.

Could you pm or email me that photo?

Brianderunner

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Yeah I use to run 800s, went back to the track 6-7 years ago and ran 2.03 but didn't enjoy it at the time. In fairness I hadn't put in a decent winters training.

Could you pm or email me that photo?

I'll do it tomorrow yeah.

Killerz

Great report, gives me inspiration ahead of chicago.

I like the idea of taking the hour off your first marathon time- gives me 2:48 to aim at (though not for this marathon!)

Abhainn

3 goals met , nice one. Thanks for that splendid report, and log.

TheRoadRunner

Seres wrote: »

i agree with you there , banking in any race is a bad idea , IMO more often than not it comes back on you and if it doesnt then your target was too soft . Just as a matter of interest how far off the 2.37 target were you at 10k out ?

Probably about a minute to 90 seconds. Ran last 10k in roughly 35.40

liamo123

Fab report RR.... Shows what abitily and lots of hard work can achieve... Mind u im more impressed with the fact that u managed to stay out drinking into the early hours of the morning.... Ur the King :eek:

Larry Brent

The RoadRunner,

Massive congratulations again. Best marathon run I've ever heard of, executed perfectly.

Quick question - considering you got faster and faster as it went on, was there any key element or elements to your training that facilitated that? I know the whole package contributed but are there any particular sessions that you felt specifically enabled that ability to speed up (considering it is so rare).

Cheers.

TheRoadRunner

Larry Brent wrote: »

Quick question - considering you got faster and faster as it went on, was there any key element or elements to your training that facilitated that? I know the whole package contributed but are there any particular sessions that you felt specifically enabled that ability to speed up (considering it is so rare).

Cheers.

Thanks

I suppose the PMP miles thrown in at the end of some of my long runs. I would have been tired starting these as it was and speeding up would be the last thing I wanted to do. In fact one of those sessions very nearly made me pass out. Hit the wall big time during it.

Also did some longer intervals (2 miles) found these were great for strength. Would consider foing more of these and even lengthening them out to 3 miles at a slightly slower pace.

I suppose another way of looking at it is maybe I didn't go off hard enough! There could be something in that but all I wanted to do was run 2.39.59 so as I've said before the speeding up was because I purposely held back. I had told you privately that this was the way I wanted to run the race and next time (whenever that is) I will be a little more confident and aggressive. There is something to be said for passing people with 10k to go also. Everybody around you is a target and it's great for the mental side of things.

As you said hard to pinpoint one thing, definitely a combination of factors

jaymack75

Great result TRR, I've enjoyed following your log. You obviously put the work in and raced smart as well. I'm hoping to run DCM with the approach you took in Berlin (finishing strongly:))

seanynova

savage race and good report trr....nothing better than finishing a race strong! recovery well and good luck with your next goal

TheRoadRunner

I haven't been logging as I decided to have no structure for the last few weeks. Didn't want to start setting goals/sessions for myself until I was sure the legs and body were up for it.

I must admit Berlin took a little more out of me than I first thought. Legs were fine but if I increased the pace I could really feel the tiredness. That's expected I suppose so no worries.

Eased myself back into running then got a bit of a fright when I realised I was pacing Dublin. In hindsight pacing Dublin was fine if I didn't have a goal race in December but I do. Week and a half before Dublin I was flying in training. I mean really flying running low 6.30s on my normal runs and not feeling anything. I was even contemplating ditching my pacing balloon and giving Dublin a lash to see if I could get down into the low 2.40s. That thought lasted about 2 minutes and then I slapped myself on the back on the head.

Pacing gig itself was fine but I had better craic pacing the 1.30 half marathon in the Phoenix park if I'm honest. With a mile to go in the marathon there weren't too many people around me and even though I dropped back to encourage a few on I knew it was better to leave people to their own devices rather than trying to cajole them over the last mile. When you're in pain, giving it your all and the legs won't move the last thing you need is somebody with a big balloon wrecking your head. I stayed in range and kept waving people on but it was obvious no amount of encouragement was going to help some people.

Legs were fine afterwards and took it easy the last 3 days, running 4, 5 & 6 miles respectively. Ran 7.5 today at 7 minute mile pace and am happy to report all is well. Will take it handy for the rest of the weekend and then start training with one eye on the Waterford half. I'm hoping to run a PB down there. I'll see how the training goes over the coming weeks before making a time prediction. To be honest I just need a goal race to keep getting me out the door. If I don't run a great time I won't be too disappointed as long as I'm not too far away from fitness going into the new year. Well that and obviously I have to beat Ecoli, can't having that young fellah having bragging rights over me. I might use a sit and kick strategy. Actually I won't that little **** has been hitting the track lately.

Ecoli is actually hoping to get a training group going so if anybody is interested PM either of us. The tentative plan is some sort of session on Saturdays (miles or tempo stuff I guess) and long runs on Sunday. Obviously it's flexible and I myself will probably only make one of those days but if we had a large enough group there should be somebody to run with every week.

Viva La RoadRunner

PS training group is all inclusive so even if you think pace would be too fast/slow for you come along as warming up and cooling down with people can help get those nasty sessions completed.

Krusty_Clown

What's the half marathon PB?

Pronator

Good job TRR.

By total chance, I'm down in Waterford with the other half and junior Pronator from the 9-11 Dec. I might just run the half but I'm as flat as **** after DCM and don't plan on doing much in the way of training for the next 2-3 weeks so I'll be running it more out of enjoyment than anything else and PB's wont be on the cards.

Might see you for a pint after it;)

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I haven't been logging as I decided to have no structure for the last few weeks. Didn't want to start setting goals/sessions for myself until I was sure the legs and body were up for it.

I must admit Berlin took a little more out of me than I first thought. Legs were fine but if I increased the pace I could really feel the tiredness. That's expected I suppose so no worries.

Eased myself back into running then got a bit of a fright when I realised I was pacing Dublin. In hindsight pacing Dublin was fine if I didn't have a goal race in December but I do. Week and a half before Dublin I was flying in training. I mean really flying running low 6.30s on my normal runs and not feeling anything. I was even contemplating ditching my pacing balloon and giving Dublin a lash to see if I could get down into the low 2.40s. That thought lasted about 2 minutes and then I slapped myself on the back on the head.

Pacing gig itself was fine but I had better craic pacing the 1.30 half marathon in the Phoenix park if I'm honest. With a mile to go in the marathon there weren't too many people around me and even though I dropped back to encourage a few on I knew it was better to leave people to their own devices rather than trying to cajole them over the last mile. When you're in pain, giving it your all and the legs won't move the last thing you need is somebody with a big balloon wrecking your head. I stayed in range and kept waving people on but it was obvious no amount of encouragement was going to help some people.

Legs were fine afterwards and took it easy the last 3 days, running 4, 5 & 6 miles respectively. Ran 7.5 today at 7 minute mile pace and am happy to report all is well. Will take it handy for the rest of the weekend and then start training with one eye on the Waterford half. I'm hoping to run a PB down there. I'll see how the training goes over the coming weeks before making a time prediction. To be honest I just need a goal race to keep getting me out the door. If I don't run a great time I won't be too disappointed as long as I'm not too far away from fitness going into the new year. Well that and obviously I have to beat Ecoli, can't having that young fellah having bragging rights over me. I might use a sit and kick strategy. Actually I won't that little **** has been hitting the track lately.

Ecoli is actually hoping to get a training group going so if anybody is interested PM either of us. The tentative plan is some sort of session on Saturdays (miles or tempo stuff I guess) and long runs on Sunday. Obviously it's flexible and I myself will probably only make one of those days but if we had a large enough group there should be somebody to run with every week.

Viva La RoadRunner

PS training group is all inclusive so even if you think pace would be too fast/slow for you come along as warming up and cooling down with people can help get those nasty sessions completed.

TheRoadRunner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What's the half marathon PB?

It's a bit of an up in the air one. Have only ever really raced one and I ran just under 76 for that. However the course was at least 1/4 mile long so technically closer to 75 minutes.

Actually I have raced 2. I ran the bastard that is Larne last year, that course didn't suit me and I ran 79 minutes. Got chicked (just, left sprint too late ) by Maria McCambridge and she ran a 75 something the following weekend in Omagh which isn't the easiest of courses either.

Pronator wrote: »

Good job TRR.

By total chance, I'm down in Waterford with the other half and junior Pronator from the 9-11 Dec. I might just run the half but I'm as flat as **** after DCM and don't plan on doing much in the way of training for the next 2-3 weeks so I'll be running it more out of enjoyment than anything else and PB's wont be on the cards.

Might see you for a pint after it;)

Excellent hope to see you then.

TheRoadRunner

Sunday: 9 miles @ 7.11 pace. At a wedding on the Saturday. Got to 1am in the morning and had a decision to make. 1) Have another brewski and then continue in that vein until the early hours of the morning or 2) Be captain sensible and head to bed so I could run Sunday. Captain sensible won out thankfully. Didn't get out for run until after 8pm as had things on during the day. The Mrs was impressed with my determination to run I was asleep on the coach at one stage early in the evening.

Monday: 8 miles @ 6.47 pace. Had to dig deep into my banks of HTFU to get out for this one, stuck in an unscheduled meeting all day. Finished at 4pm so threw on the gear and legged it from my office. Really enjoyed it once I got going. Ran around trails of Carton house. Legs felt great so I was upping the pace in segments. Was real fartlek type running. Sun had been shining all day but evening was very cool. Heat was rising from the ground, felt like a warm blanket wrapped around my lower legs. Great sensation.

Tuesday: 8.25 miles @ 7 minute pace. Near carbon copy of Mondays run except kept pace a little more sedate. Another evening run.

Wednesday: 9.25 @ 7.08. Nice run around quiet roads and along canal. Was absolutely starving on this one.

Thursday: 10 miles with 5 @ 5.45 pace. Did this with Ecoli. We went off a bit hard. Downward start, over exuberance and the sensation of running with somebody meant we overcooked it a little early on. Poxy wind and hillier second half kicked the crap out of us. Still happy enough to do something a little more up tempo. Haven't ran this fast since Berlin

TheRoadRunner

Friday: 8 miles @ 7.10 pace. Poxy windy was out but got the benefit in the econd half. Rang along the royal canal.

Saturday: 6 miles @ 7 minutes pace. Nice handy run out to my folks for dinner. Was hoping to do something a bit faster but my post match celebrations Friday night got in the way. Ridiculous carry on but a great night.

Sunday: Just under 15 miles @ 7.05 pace with Ecoli. Wind was incredibly poxy. Wind like that and all bets are off in Waterford. Well actually all bets won't be off I'll still have to pay up but you get the jist.

Monday: 6 miles on grass. Legs aren't feeling great. Poxy hammer is tight again. Need to reignite the RoadRunner nightly stretching routine. Have got lazy recently.

Just realised my 5 mile time I ran back in May was actually a PB. I was disgusted with it at the time so didn't log it in the best of 2011. I was going much better than the 26.29 I ran but still so far thid year I have PBs for 5 mile, 10k, 10 mile and marathon. Not bad going, would be great to add a half marathon PB to that as well

TheRoadRunner

Tuesday: 8 miles, not enjoyable. Turned off the watch. Felt physically fine but just didn't want to run. Second half wasn't as bad. Was considering stopping and walking. I hate this time of the year. Nice weather for running but dark days make roadrunner sad & depressed :mad:

Pronator

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Friday: 8 miles @ 7.10 pace. Poxy windy was out but got the benefit in the econd half. Rang along the royal canal.

Saturday: 6 miles @ 7 minutes pace. Nice handy run out to my folks for dinner. Was hoping to do something a bit faster but my post match celebrations Friday night got in the way. Ridiculous carry on but a great night.

Sunday: Just under 15 miles @ 7.05 pace with Ecoli. Wind was incredibly poxy. Wind like that and all bets are off in Waterford. Well actually all bets won't be off I'll still have to pay up but you get the jist.

Monday: 6 miles on grass. Legs aren't feeling great. Poxy hammer is tight again. Need to reignite the RoadRunner nightly stretching routine. Have got lazy recently.

Just realised my 5 mile time I ran back in May was actually a PB. I was disgusted with it at the time so didn't log it in the best of 2011. I was going much better than the 26.29 I ran but still so far thid year I have PBs for 5 mile, 10k, 10 mile and marathon. Not bad going, would be great to add a half marathon PB to that as well

What's your half marathon PB?