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Berlin 2016: Back to Basics

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Donadea 10k?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    Donadea 10k?

    Yes but not "the" donadea 10k


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    72 Days to DCM

    Saturday: 11 miles approx with 10k trail race in 35.40. Pretty good run in the trail race today. Had company to 4k then kicked on a little and opened a gap. Pretty much ran even splits from there until the last 1k when I could start to hear footsteps again so upped the pace to make sure I didn't get caught. Was a bit worried in the first 400 metres as two GAA shirt wearing lads took us out close to national record pace, didn't see them afetr 410 metres but I was very worried for just over a minute ;) Average finishing pace was 5.45ish which is close to target HM pace so I know sub 75 is very doable in a few weeks time. In fact based on how I felt during the race and taking the course into account something faster may need to be targeted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭macinalli


    TRR wrote: »
    Was a bit worried in the first 400 metres as two GAA shirt wearing lads took us out close to national record pace, didn't see them afetr 410 metres but I was very worried for just over a minute ;)

    I did the same race and had a quiet chuckle when I saw the two boys haring off with the leaders. In defence of the GAA the first guy was Alessandro Pirlo (that's what his shirt said;)) and he blew up fairly dramatically after about 1k. The Kilkenny guy hung on for a bit longer - I went by him at about 4k and he looked like he was regretting it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,518 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    TRR wrote: »
    72 Days to DCM

    Saturday: 11 miles approx with 10k trail race in 35.40. Pretty good run in the trail race today. Had company to 4k then kicked on a little and opened a gap. Pretty much ran even splits from there until the last 1k when I could start to hear footsteps again so upped the pace to make sure I didn't get caught. Was a bit worried in the first 400 metres as two GAA shirt wearing lads took us out close to national record pace, didn't see them afetr 410 metres but I was very worried for just over a minute ;) Average finishing pace was 5.45ish which is close to target HM pace so I know sub 75 is very doable in a few weeks time. In fact based on how I felt during the race and taking the course into account something faster may need to be targeted.
    Didn't you give me some advice before about entering soft races?! Congrats on the solid training session.:)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    Didn't you give me some advice before about entering soft races?! Congrats on the solid training session.:)

    Did I? Would be kind of thing I'd do all right. I can be an ass hole when I want to be :) I'm all about building my fragile confidence and in my defence I thought there would be a few lads ahead of me when I entered initially. As you say solid training session and has helped me revise some targets


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    macinalli wrote: »
    I did the same race and had a quiet chuckle when I saw the two boys haring off with the leaders. In defence of the GAA the first guy was Alessandro Pirlo (that's what his shirt said;)) and he blew up fairly dramatically after about 1k. The Kilkenny guy hung on for a bit longer - I went by him at about 4k and he looked like he was regretting it!

    Oh you're right, I'm just use to taking the piss out of the GAA guys. The Kilkenny guy nearly knocked me down when he was leaving the car park. Must have seen me laughing when he hared off and was trying to get some retribution.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,236 ✭✭✭Abhainn


    I was a true GAA guy but never raced when one. Good love them and their enthusiasm...
    Good man TRR on the victory


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    71 Days to DCM

    Sunday: 10 miles @ 7.15 pace. Had breakfast with the nippers and was out the door nice and early. Cracking run, ran down to Corkagh park and did a 5 mile loop on grass then ran back home. Air temp was perfect with no wind at all. Legs a little tired at first but after 5 minutes or so they were purring and seriously had to keep an eye on the pace. Headed to our local eatery for a savage brunch followed by a 2 hour catnap in the afternoon. Perfect Sunday :) Pretty much a perfect week also, just over 70 miles with some decent running in there. This week mileage may be a little lighter but main goal is to get in a long run and give the 10 miler a good lash on Saturday. I'm nowhere near 19 mile PB shape but it doesn't bother me. We actually have a decent team and a chance of sneaking a county medal so looking forward to actually racing other club runners and forgetting about the clock (although not completely obviously ;))

    Sat down last night and did up a revised rough plan. I need to plan a couple of races and make sure the long runs get done. Plan is still very unstructured but at least now I have a racing plan in place. This is all provisional of course but aim is
    Frank Duffy - 25/8
    BHAA 10k* - 8/9
    BHAA half marathon - 15/9
    Kilomarathon* - 30/9
    Donadea 10k - 14/10

    I'm not 100% on the BHAA 10k and kilomarathon. I'll do the 10k if it's no problem logistics wise (weekends with jnrs can be full on with activities). If I do the kilomarathon I'll be doing it at MP but I'm not too sure if it's a little too long (16+ miles) and a little too close to DCM. I'll post on the main forum to see people's opinions about this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭theboyblunder


    Do you have any coaching experience? You prepared your Berlin programme yourself last year too if I remember right. How to you construct them?

    Do you just do what has worked in the past or do you have a fancy training philosophy? Interested in this becuase whatever you do, it works :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    Do you have any coaching experience? You prepared your Berlin programme yourself last year too if I remember right. How to you construct them?

    Do you just do what has worked in the past or do you have a fancy training philosophy? Interested in this becuase whatever you do, it works :)

    A little coaching experience but mainly just friends of mine. I've no coaching badges although hope to take some in the coming years. No fancy training philosophy. I've been involved in club athletics since I was 10 and would have been training with adults from the age of 14+ so picked up a lot from listening to what other people did, the rest has been trial and error on my behalf, and believe me there has been lots of error :) I think I can still make some improvements using my own approach so going to stick with it. I'd rather run slightly below my ability then take a high risk mileage strategy for example and end up injured. I know what works well for me and as you say it has been working ok to date.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    70 Days to DCM

    Monday: am - 7 miles @ 7 min pace. Nice run along the canal. A little harder than it should have been as felt like the wind was in my face for the entire run.
    pm: 4.5 miles @ 8.15 min pace. Lovely recovery run. Legs feeling really good. Had the dog with me, she hasn't been out for a run with me in a while and nearly sent me flying a couple of times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    69 Days to DCM

    Tuesday: 18 miles @ 7.05. Jesus that was very very tough. Probably one of the hardest training runs I've ever done. I always find the first 18 miler tough and they get much easier but today was exceptional. Had a great group of 6 starting the run today. It was very warm and by mile 5 we were down to 5. Then it got very cold and started to rain, two other lads dropped off and headed for home. It got warm again, then it lashed out of the heavens. It was savage rain, the volume was unreal and the canal bank I was running on was flooded. Then it got really warm again. No way this would have got done without the other two headcases today. They were feeling the pain as well so I was happy to hear that.

    I don't know what's the story with my appetite the last few days, it's insatiable. I've been doing my best to eat sensibly and hard tried not to eat any crap but my body is craving serious calories. I was starving early on in today's run and popped my one and only gel at 5 miles. If I had of had more handy I would have lashed into them. I was like a punched drunk boxer by the time I finished. I had made a massive stir fry last night that was supposed to do my lunch for 3 days, that's gone. I've also emptied the work fridge much to the annoyance of one of my colleagues in particular. In fairness I was doing her a favour but she didn't see it that way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    TRR wrote: »
    In fairness I was doing her a favour but she didn't see it that way.

    Sheer classic!:D:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭myflipflops


    TRR wrote: »
    69 Days to DCM I was like a punched drunk boxer by the time I finished.

    I finally got a good long run in on Monday (1.55 with a chunk of it around marathon pace) and I felt exactly like this. Pretty sure everyone in the lift when I was going up to my apartment thought I was p*ssed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭theboyblunder


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    Sheer classic!:D:D

    It was a LOL from me too. Great post from TRR. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭claralara


    TRR wrote: »
    In fairness I was doing her a favour but she didn't see it that way.

    Well that's certainly a more politically correct version than what I heard.

    By sounds of it she might have to start doing you a favour!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    68 Days to DCM

    Double day today. Two short runs, first for recovery, the second for a bit of conditioning (a.k.a running my fat arse off).

    Wednesday: am recovery 6 miles @ 7.45 pace. A little tired from yesterday but not too bad overall. Quite an enjoyable run although the loss of two more nipples due to the lashing rain yesterday meant this was quite annoying and sore after 3 miles. I must invest in more bodyglide.

    pm 5 miles @ 7.25 pace. Nice easy run and legs feeling better than they did this morning so thumbs up for recovery runs. I would have considered a run like this as "junk mileage" a few years ago but found it a huge benefit last year especially for melting away those ounces of body fat. Speaking of which I'll have to get a measurement soon and start trying to work a bit more on that. Got the BF into single digits last year, think I've a bit of work to do to get back down to that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭claralara


    TRR wrote: »
    Double day today.

    Are you unemployed or something?! ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    claralara wrote: »
    Are you unemployed or something?! ;)

    Not yet although my boss commented on the fact he seen me running before and after work yesterday. He looked a bit bemused.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    claralara wrote: »
    Are you unemployed or something?! ;)

    We should be asking the same of you. A suspicious amount of time you are spending on boards these days :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    67 Days to DCM

    Thursday: 6.5 miles @ 7.30 pace. Legs feel a little heavy. Will take it hand tomorrow for sure. Need to stretch a bit as my thighs are very tight for some reason :confused: Hope to get some rocket fuel into the body before Saturday ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    Well TRR, glad to see your up and logging again, thought we'd lost you there for a while!!

    Looking at some of your recent posts there, I found the one about the 18 miler interesting. Was that the goal pace and just a fat burner, or did the weather just mess up the session? I'm wondering really what sort of pace you'll get to on your 15-18 and 20-22 mile training sessions?

    Your PMP is probably 5.59 or so is it? Do you break the 20+ sessions into PMP+?? and then PMP miles?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    TRR wrote: »
    67 Days to DCM

    Thursday: 6.5 miles @ 7.30 pace. Legs feel a little heavy. Will take it hand tomorrow for sure. Need to stretch a bit as my thighs are very tight for some reason :confused:Hope to get some rocket fuel into the body before Saturday ;)
    Hollands finest?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR



    Looking at some of your recent posts there, I found the one about the 18 miler interesting. Was that the goal pace and just a fat burner, or did the weather just mess up the session? I'm wondering really what sort of pace you'll get to on your 15-18 and 20-22 mile training sessions?

    Your PMP is probably 5.59 or so is it? Do you break the 20+ sessions into PMP+?? and then PMP miles?

    Tuesday's run was all about getting the miles done. No point me trying to throw PMP miles at the moment as it would knock the $hite out of me. This is the longest run I've done since London and probably only the 6/7th 18+ mile run this year so need to relay a few foundations before starting to run fast. Next weeks long run will be similar to this weeks, the following week will be similar in distance but I expect to see the average pace fall. Once I can comfortably run 20 miles sub 7 minute mile pace I'll consider throwing in the PMP stuff.

    I don't normally do a lot of long runs with faster MP sections but when I do I'd break them down into 10 easy - 8 pmp -2 easy or something similar. The reason I don't do a lot of runs like that, is not because I don't think they are beneficial (they are) but because physically I can't. I'm a little injury prone as the distances get longer so need to be careful. I am slowly building them up over the last few marathon cycles however and hope to do a few in the coming months.
    shels4ever wrote: »
    Hollands finest?
    No such luck, a long story that you really don't want to hear. The glamour couple of boards can expand if they wish but I'm too angelic to go into it.


    67 Days to DCM
    friday: 30 minutes handy, dropped a few shapes, ran a few miles, did a few strides and the legs feel ok. Frank Duffy tomorrow, looking forward to it. Not as fit as I'd hoped I'd be but not a million miles away so bring it baby.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    66 Days to DCM

    Saturday: 10 miles in 56.42 (unofficial). 14 miles in total including warm up and cool down. Goodish day at the office. Aim was to run sub 57, based on my training and how I had been feeling I thought this was a realistic target and would show I was on target for Dublin. I ran 55.50 for this last year but in relative training terms I was 4 weeks ahead of where I am at the moment. The time was OK but I ran like an absolute dickhead. I was aiming to hang onto lads who I would normally be battling with but I'm not at the required fitness levels to do so and worst still some of them have pushed on from last year so it made my race tactics even worse. I'll explain below.

    So sub 57 was the initial goal. I thought 5.40s/high 5.30s were a reasonable target pace for the first 7 miles and then hope to hold this in the final 3 miles which are the toughest. This approach has worked for me in the past and I usually finish this race quite strongly and overtake a good few lads in the final 2 miles. This morning I wanted 56.40 so that is one positive to take from the day, a goal met.

    Race went as follows.

    mile 1 - 5.17: Tried to keep this controlled but it is a net downhill and very fast. I don't think I overcooked this.

    mile 2 - 5.31: Was at the head of a group and I was a little worried as there were a couple of faces I'd be normally be 2 minutes ahead of in a 10 miler, while the group ahead of me contained lads closer to my (normal) finishing times. I was also being used as a wind shield so in an act of petulance I put the foot down a little and tried to bridge the gap to the next group. Mistake number 1. I managed to get away from my group and close the gap slightly but was now in no mans land with a bit of a breeze in my face.

    mile 3 - 5.51: Still trying to catch the group ahead but making no headway and the effort to run a 5.51 was demoralising.

    mile 4 - 5.37: Out of the wind and on a downward stretch coming down chesterfield avenue. Start to catch some of the group ahead but it had basically broken up and was catching the stragglers.

    mile 5 - 5.31: Manage to catch a club mate. I had high hopes of us medaling in the Dublin champs. I knew Tunguska would be well up the field close to the top 10 and I reckoned myself and this clubmate would be around the 20s, good enough for team gold even maybe. Anyway, he was wrecked, suffering from flu all week and he dropped out at the 5 mile marker. This was a bit of a blow psychologically as i knew we had no team now. There had been a mix up and cwgatling had no number so we had no one to step into the void. More on that later :)

    mile 6 - 5.32: Another psychological blow. The group I had got away from came steaming by me. I relasied it was a great group of about 5-7 lads, there were some guys with faster time than me in that group. Basically I had killed myself to get away from these and ran like a fcuking ejit into the wind solo while these had worked together were communicating with one another and had lots of running left. They started to move away from me but i wasn't too worried as my pace was still good and I thought I'd catch a few of them on the hills.

    mile 7 - 5.43: Started to steady myself as we hit military hill. Group is starting to slowly come back to me.

    mile 8 - 5.42: I'm fcuking dying and want to drop out. I've no oomph and the head is gone. I still feel strongish and remind myself the logistics involved in getting the free time from family duties to run this race. The fact we now haven't a team is the biggest head wrecker.

    mile 9 - 6.07: I try to close the gap again but it is just not happening. I'm shocked when I see the pace is 6.22 half way into this mile lap. I start to concentrate again am delighted to see the end of mile 9. I've 51 minutes on the watch so know a 6 minute mile will get me my initial target so I kick on. Get some great encouragement from some of my ex-clubmates. This is nice, there is sometimes bad blood (for weird reasons) when runners leave a club but I always got on with everybody in MSB and we left on great terms so it's nice when they really try to encourage you.

    mile 10 - 5.39: Just put the head down and count my footsteps. Can't wait for the finish. As I'm running I hear the announcer call out tunguska's names so I know he's ran an excellent 54.30ish. I'm kicking myself that the other lad dropped out, I had even tried to coax him into keep running to bag a sub 60 minute finish as that probably would have been good enough but he was fcuked in fairness to him.

    Happy enough at the finish. I see tunguska and pronator who have both ran great times. If pronator stays off the Dutch gold he might run a good one in Berlin. This is the third race in a row now that a Sli Culann muppet (;)) has handed me my ass on a plate. I'll have to start training harder or even the OAP of Sli Culann (Krusty) will be beating me soon.

    I'm mentioning to tunguska how we don't have a team as we had a drop out and cwgatlings non-run due to no number. Just then like a vision of an angel we kop cwgatling finish. The legend managed to get a number in his name 3 minutes before the race start and even better he smashed the 60 minute barrier for the first time running just under 59 minutes. Will be interested to see how we do in the team results. This made my day, I really wanted to drop out and while I would have been beating myself up over the DNF I would have been sick as a dog considering what cwgatling went through to run. Good man.

    Anyway not a bad result overall. Tuesday's long run did me no favours but it had to be done. I can't physically do a long run the day after a race and I need to bank 18+ mile runs at the moment. I don't think I would have ran much faster if I hadn't of done the long run but one thing is for sure it wouldn't have been as hard as it was today. Plan for next 3 weeks is 2 really, really, good weeks and then a step back week for the half marathon. I really want to give that a lash and break 75 and maybe even 74 but will make a time call closer to the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Pronator


    Well done today Dave. Very good time. A few more weeks of good training and you will be well set for DCM.

    Ease off the dutch gold and you'll be just fine:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,236 ✭✭✭Abhainn


    hey TRR solid run no doubt. Good race report
    That is a dog of a course so this is a good one in the bag. I expect that target 75 will be met

    We have a few quick lads alright in our smallish Bray Runners (Sli Cualann amalgamation of a no. of small clubs)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    Your a gutsy fcker and talented Dave i will give you that. I enjoyed reading the report, sub 6s for 10miles just seem alien to me.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    Your a gutsy fcker and talented Dave i will give you that. I enjoyed reading the report, sub 6s for 10miles just seem alien to me.

    Thanks, I was the same myself a few years back. sub 6s for 5 miles was my initial target and from there I built up gradually to doing sub 6s for a marathon. Things never change though, I'm now looking at 5.40s and trying to figure out how the hell I can do 26 of them back to back so I guess it's all relative.

    64 Days to DCM
    Sunday: rest/sick day. The word gutsy in JBs quote above is ironic. My tummy wasn't feeling the best Saturday morning but I put it down to pre-race butterflies. However for the remainder of Saturday and all of Sunday my intestines were in a jocker. I felt like braveheart in the final scenes of that film, where the torturer is twisting his intestines. Had to go to bed very early last night, couldn't tell you the time I was so out of it and didn't wake until 8 this morning, well over 12 hours sleep anyway. Disappointed not to get a run in as the legs feel grand but I could barely walk without a grimace on my mush let alone attempt a run. Still not 100% today so I'll see how things go.


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