Berlin 2016: Back to Basics

jebuz

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

my legs felt amaze balls so I just went with it.

Unfollowed

kennyb3

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

55 days to half marathon

Thursday: 9 miles total including 8 * 1k with 2 minutes jog recovery. Averaged 3.20 pace for these. Very happy with this as felt relatively comfortable and last 2 were the fastest. Ran these along the canal bank. Very humid day.

How much of the balance would tend to be warm up and warm down? I.e. is it mainly warm up or would you do much warm down?

TRR_the_turd

kennyb3 wrote: »

How much of the balance would tend to be warm up and warm down? I.e. is it mainly warm up or would you do much warm down?

That was basically a mile warm up, session followed by a mile cool down. Do these during my lunch so don't have time for much else. If I had time, I'd probably do an extra mile warm up.

TRR_the_turd

53 days to half marathon

Monday: 10 miles @ 6.55 pace. Had planned on a double run of 8/4 or 7/5 but got held up in meetings all day so had to scrap that idea. I ran home from work for this one. Got a lift a couple miles of the way as would have been close to 14 miles if I had ran the entire distance. It was hard jumping out from a warm car into the miserable rain. Felt ****e for an hour but got going after that. Enjoyed this one in the end.

Tuesday: noon 10 miles with 10 * 1k reps off 2 minute jog recovery. Averaged just under 3.20 for these. Was happy with myself as I did this session solo. Have had company the last few weeks. Was more mental than physical. Felt like bailing at 8 reps but tricked myself into the 10 and the last 2 were the quickest so goes to show I was well able for them. PM 5 miles @ 8 minute pace. Handy recovery run around home. I've been doing a fair few doubles (compared to normal) for a number of reasons. Firstly, I've found in the past they are a great way to drop some poundage (weight down to 12 5lb by the way). Secondly my legs genuinely feel better after a recovery run. Thirdly, the legs loosen a good bit out and I can go to town on them with the foam roller.

Wednesday: 11.5 miles @ 7.30 pace. Handy run on the trails of the Phoenix park with the exile. Legs feeling quite good after this. Plan was for another handy run this evening but I'm just not in the form, also I ran a bit further than I had originally planned this morning so going to leave it and do some extra stretching this evening.

TRR_the_turd

49 days to half marathon

Thursday: 10 miles @ 6.50 pace. Did this entirely on grass in my local park. Really enjoyable, legs feeling really good.

Friday: 8 miles @ 7.10 pace. Easy run along the canal bank. Had to continuously slow the pace down. Didn't want to be running too hard before Sunday.

Saturday: 5 miles easy with strides to finish. Just a short run to shake. Legs feeling good.

Sunday: 16 miles total with half marathon in 77.09. This was an odd one. I had a plan to start out at MP and drop the pace down as I went along. Looking at the route, the last 4 miles or so, looked tough so I guessed I wouldn't be able to continue dropping the pace. I had 77 minutes as a decent target time in my head with sneaky thoughts of actually running 76.30 or so. Game plan went out the window from the get go and I was running down in the 5.40s instead of 5.50s. Felt ok so just kept at it. Had a problem with the watch and it didn't start until half a mile in some my splits were out of whack with official mile markers. Came into the park and I was just behind the second lady. She dropped me around the Khyber and a group of 5 lads caught me, they were motoring. Got going again on the hills and at 10 miles on my watch I had 58.20, mentally I thought this would put me on for 76.30 or so. Could see 8 people in front of me (2nd lady and group that had passed me earlier) and I caught all of these before the 12 mile mark. Kept pushing and was disappointed to see the clock had gone over 77 minutes as I ran under it. Looking at last 3 splits they were all close to 6 minute splits and this is where I lost my 30-40 seconds I guess.

So overall a decent run. Couldn't really expect much more. A month ago I was in shocking shape so it's a good return for the work I've put in. I need to knock 4 minutes off yesterday time by the time I next race the half in 7 weeks. I think the course will be worth 60-90 seconds and then hopefully my fitness levels will continue to improve.

A lot done, more to do as the man says!

ThebitterLemon

Nice improvement alright over the last few weeks.

What's the weight the like?

TbL

TRR_the_turd

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Nice improvement alright over the last few weeks.

What's the weight the like?

TbL

Thanks. 12-5 last time I checked. Did the dog yesterday with dinner out, drinks and a four in one on the way home so I'll have to reinitiating manorexia today

ultraman1

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

Thanks. 12-5 last time I checked. Did the dog yesterday with dinner out, drinks and a four in one on the way home so I'll have to reinitiating manorexia today

Must of been a good nite

ultraman1

ultraman1 wrote: »

wad tryin to upload a foto adwell u were on sky news

Here u go

TRR_the_turd

46 days to half marathon

Monday: am 6 miles @ 7.36. Handy enough run around the local roads. Legs ok but quite tight in places. More tightness that tiredness after the half marathon pm 5.5 miles @ 8.03 run around the local park. All on grass and felt nice on the legs

Tuesday: pm 7 miles @ 7.20. Run along canal bank and grass fields. Legs feeling better than the day before but still quite tight. Particularly the quads and hamstring (and calf and right shin :eek:) pm 5 miles @ 7.35 Probably the most stupid run I've ever done. Run 1 was at 1 pm and run 2 was at 5.30 pm. Only opportunity I had to get out. Wanted to double and had originally planned heading out on grass at 9pm. This run ended up rushed (had stuck the dinner on before leaving and was afraid it would burn house down) therefore the pace was faster than recovery. I should have just canned it. If I had of got injured doing this run it would have served me right.

Wednesday: 10 miles @7.02. Legs feeling better again today. A mile into this one I had a very weird feeling in my foot. Tendon running from the front of my shin into my foot was quite tight and my foot felt dodgy. I stretched it out and it was grand for the rest of the run. My right calf and shin have been tight the last week so I canned this evenings recovery run and will just do some additional stretching. It's nothing major but I need to keep an eye on it.

Not sure about the rest of the week, will do a long run the weekend but not sure about session tomorrow. Will see how the legs are before deciding. I entered the race series 10 mile race. That will be my next goal race. Will be another good indicator as to how I'm getting on.

menoscemo

Nice one, we'll go for Dublin over 35s gold. Just tell the other lads not to enter so I can count as a scorer this time

Gavlor

menoscemo wrote: »

Nice one, we'll go for Dublin over 35s gold. Just tell the other lads not to enter so I can count as a scorer this time

Do they give points out for DNF?

Or is it just a pat on the ass and a thanks for trying

RayCun

menoscemo wrote: »

Nice one, we'll go for Dublin over 35s gold. Just tell the other lads not to enter so I can count as a scorer this time

I think Donore won that last year with a 55 minute average

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

I think Donore won that last year with a 55 minute average

I would have had a Leinster gold this year only TRR gave our 2nd scorer a lift . I suspect the Dublin medals are harder won

davedanon

I have a Dublin O-50 gold from 2013 for that race.

TRR_the_turd

42 days to half marathon

Thursday: 10 miles @ 7 minute pace. Ran this along the canal and grounds of Carton house. My foot had been tight the last while. Specifically the tendons that run from my shin into the top of my foot. They usually loosen out once I start walking/running but for a minute or two it actually feels like I've a broken bone in my foot. I was in a jocker for the first 60-90 seconds of this. The lad I was running with was telling me to head back to the changing room. I looked like someone who has just had a hip operation trying to run. It quickly loosened out and I was fine for the rest of the run. Made a phone call when I got back from the run and had some physical therapy done on the foot later that evening. It did the trick thankfully.

Friday: 7 miles @ 7 min pace. Nice run along the canal. Foot felling fine today. No issues with tightness etc.

Saturday: 15 miles total @ 6.50 pace. Ran the 6 miles to Lucan, jumped into the parkrun (16.53) and ran the 6 miles homes. Legs feeling good on this. Brought my parkrun barcode again and just about made the start. Was happy with the 5k as I was on my own and wanted to dip under 17 minutes. I went through half way in 8mins 30 seconds and was happy I could pick it up over the last mile to nip under. Starting to get a good judge of my pace again. For a while I hadn't a clue what pace I was moving at unless I was looking at GPS watch.

Sunday: 10 miles @ 7.02 minute mile pace. Enjoyed this run, half on road half on grass. Ran down to my local park. I had got a bit tired of running in the park a while back but I'm really enjoying running there at the moment. Ground is perfect for running and grass is cut like a golf course. Had planned on another recovery run in the evening but got a call to head out for the evening so binned the run.

Solid week. No real quality but I don't mind, my legs were frazzled after the half marathon. Worryingly it took a fair bit out of me. More than I would have hoped/thought. Have a good weeks training planned for this week so hopefully that will go well. This half marathon is approaching very quickly!

TRR_the_turd

Monday: am 6 miles including 8 * 400 with 30 second jog recovery. Friend of mine was doing a mini session of 400s so I said I'd jump in for a bit of variety. Hadn't really thought this one through and was breathing out my arse by the second one. Still, did ok considering I can't even remember the last time I did 400s was. Average pace was 75 seconds pm 5 miles @ 8 minute pace. Nice handy evening trot on grass around the local park.

Tuesday: am 8 miles total including 3 * 2 miles with 3 minute jog recovery. Was delighted to get this in as I thought the previous day's 400s could have messed stuff up. Rep times were 11.15, 11.11 and 11.10. Did this solo, so there was a bit of cajoling myself on the final rep but was fine pm 5 miles @ 7.45 pace. Another nice trot around the local park on grass

Wednesday: 10 miles @ 7.02 pace. Not feeling great this morning. Energy levels were down and was very hungry all morning. Plan for this was to run 12 miles and keep pace between 7.20-30. Wasn't feeling the love from the get go, so cut it short and sped up just to get it over and done with. Absolutely cracking day out but feeling of dodgyness and a little dehydration made this run a little bit of a chore. Will take this evening off as a precaution.

belcarra

TRR, Apologies in advance for the momentary hijack of your log!!

Your Monday 400m session has led me to the following questions regarding my own training.
After a couple of months absence I returned to club (ClonliffeH) on Tuesday and the session was 15 x 400m @ 5k pace over a 2:30 cycle.
My 5k pace is 4:00/km or thereabouts (i.e. 96s 400m splits), however running with the group led me to completing all laps in pace range from 3:47/km down to 3:35/km (Splits of 93s progressing to 88s).
I just about managed to finish them all but am concerned that ultimately these sessions at too fast a pace could potentially cause other issues in my training for Berlin.

Would your fountains of wisdom;) advise me to stick it out and continue with these sessions, or, to stay away from these group sessions and do my own more disciplined training instead?
(I know the obvious answer would be to run them at 4:00/km with the group but I don't think I have the discipline to hold myself back as I'd be way off the back of the group if that was the case!)

Cheers!

ultrapercy

belcarra wrote: »

TRR, Apologies in advance for the momentary hijack of your log!!

Your Monday 400m session has led me to the following questions regarding my own training.
After a couple of months absence I returned to club (ClonliffeH) on Tuesday and the session was 15 x 400m @ 5k pace over a 2:30 cycle.
My 5k pace is 4:00/km or thereabouts (i.e. 96s 400m splits), however running with the group led me to completing all laps in pace range from 3:47/km down to 3:35/km (Splits of 93s progressing to 88s).
I just about managed to finish them all but am concerned that ultimately these sessions at too fast a pace could potentially cause other issues in my training for Berlin.

Would your fountains of wisdom;) advise me to stick it out and continue with these sessions, or, to stay away from these group sessions and do my own more disciplined training instead?
(I know the obvious answer would be to run them at 4:00/km with the group but I don't think I have the discipline to hold myself back as I'd be way off the back of the group if that was the case!)

Cheers!

I hope TRR won't mind me giving my opinion here. At this stage of a marathon build up any 5k paced running should be just to maintain speed and leg turnover. 15 x 400 off less than 1 minute takes too much recovery for not much return with regards marathon running. You long run, mp run and lacetate threshold sessions are the most important elements at this stage and anything that hurts them should be scrapped or reduced. While 15 400 is a good session I believe at this stage you will benefit more from 2 x 3 miles half mp (for eg)

TRR_the_turd

ultrapercy wrote: »

I hope TRR won't mind me giving my opinion here. At this stage of a marathon build up any 5k paced running should be just to maintain speed and leg turnover. 15 x 400 off less than 1 minute takes too much recovery for not much return with regards marathon running. You long run, mp run and lacetate threshold sessions are the most important elements at this stage and anything that hurts them should be scrapped or reduced. While 15 400 is a good session I believe at this stage you will benefit more from 2 x 3 miles half mp (for eg)

not at all.

Hard to give you complete advice belcara as I'm not 100% of your training but in general I would agree with UP. Personally when I've done 400s in a marathon programme I'd typically do 20 but they would be at my 10k pace. The 5k pace is probably too fast. You have enough time to fit in some of the lactate threshold sessions UP mentioned (2 * 20 minutes, 3 * 2 miles etc). If you're not fdoing them, I'd try and get a block of them in and maybe forget about the track. If you are doing them and want to stay on the track, slow your rep times down as they will probably push you into the red.

As I said I'm not up to date with your training so take all of the above with a pinch of salt

belcarra

Thanks to both of you guys - much appreciated feedback!
I have been doing several LT sessions on my own over the past few weeks and am hitting target pace, now up to 35mins without break (Won't go more than 40mins).

I was just trying to work out if i was being a bit 'soft' with the idea that the fast 400m repeats being unsuitable for me at the moment but all your advice was pretty much what I was thinking.

Having said all that I can imagine those sessions are great for 5k-10k training and I may return to that after Berlin.
(Of course the sessions will probably have changed by then!:rolleyes:)

Cheers!

TRR_the_turd

belcarra wrote: »

Having said all that I can imagine those sessions are great for 5k-10k training and I may return to that after Berlin.
(Of course the sessions will probably have changed by then!:rolleyes:)

Cheers!

Actually that was a question I forgot to ask. I'm guessing the other guys doing this sessions are training for 5/10k! Are any of them training for a marathon? Is there no coach at the session to ask what sort of pace you should be doing?

belcarra

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

Actually that was a question I forgot to ask. I'm guessing the other guys doing this sessions are training for 5/10k! Are any of them training for a marathon? Is there no coach at the session to ask what sort of pace you should be doing?

Many of them are actually training for DCM!

TRR_the_turd

dublin runner wrote: »

I think Tuesday was simply a speed maintenance session. Are you following the club plan? There's very little at anything above 10k speed from here on in if you are. With 10 weeks to go I think a 5k session is fine but like the lads have said, I wouldn't be doing anything like that session during the last 6-8 weeks.

Yeah I think Berlin is only 6/7 weeks away as well

dublin runner

belcarra wrote: »

Many of them are actually training for DCM!

Wrote a reply and then noticed you are doing Berlin, not Dublin!

Tuesday was a speed maintenance session, rather than part of a 5/10k plan. With 10 weeks until Dublin, that's ok (imo) but I wouldn't do anything like that with 6-8 weeks to go. Did you have a look at the club plan? There's very little above 10k speed from here on in.

oldrunner

dublin runner wrote: »

Tuesday was a speed maintenance session, rather than part of a 5/10k plan. With 10 weeks until Dublin, that's ok (imo) but I wouldn't do anything like that with 6-8 weeks to go. Did you have a look at the club plan? There's very little above 10k speed from here on in.

If I'm not mistaken, Belcarra is in a different training group to you. They were in lane 2, I think.

TRR_the_turd

Thursday: 8 miles with 5 @ 5.45 pace. I found this very tough. The heat was the major factor. Ran this along the canal and found it stifling. Probably a massive 20+ degrees but I' just not use to warmer temperatures at the moment. Was going to continue on for a sixth mile but felt myself going into the red so backed off.

Friday: 6 miles easy @ 7.20 pace. Very handy run along the canal. Nothing to report.

Saturday: 16 miles @ 6.50 pace including parkrun in 17.02. Was finding it tough to motivate myself out of bed and out the door for this run so decided I'd run to Tymon park and jump into the parkrun down there. Sounds ridiculous but the fact I had somewhere to run to made a difference and once I was a mile into the run I was enjoying it. Was happy with the 5k effort, the first two miles are net downhill but I was still happy to see 5.25 and 5.22 for them as I was very comfortable. The last mile is nearly all on a gradual climb and I slowed down (5.37), but I purposely didn't push on, as I still had 5 miles to run to get home.

Sunday: 8 miles @ 7.25 pace. Brucey bonus run. Was out the afternoon/evening/night beforehand and had a belly full of good food and drink in the system. Felt like crap the entire day and was 8pm before I ventured out, but felt good once I got going and let a couple of raspers go!

Decent week overall. Was out two nights last week and I have the feeling they did more harm than any good my training may have done Thankfully, I've nothing planned from now until the half marathon. I have the 10 mile race this weekend. Looking forward to the race, not looking forward to the poxy course.

TRR_the_turd

Monday: 10 miles @ 7 minute pace. Had to head out mid morning for this. Absolute cracker of a day. Moving along nicely

Tuesday: 8 miles @ 6.40 pace. Was unsure what to do on this one. I like to take a down week every 4th week where I do no sessions while training for a marathon but haven't felt the need to do that so far with the half marathon training. Decided on Sunday that I'd do mile reps on Tuesday and take the rest of the week handy before the 10 mile race on Saturday. Wasn't in the form starting out with these and legs were a bit tired/heavy. Juggling a fair few things in work at the moment and just wasn't in the mood/head space for mile reps solo if I'm honest. Got stuck into first rep and was building into it, then looked at watch after 3 minutes or so to see the GPS had lost signal. Had a hissy fit and decided there and then to kill the session. Took it as a sign just to run easy the rest of the week. Think it is the sensible thing to do in hindsight. Was also a very warm evening and I actually got little burnt.

Wednesday: 12.5 miles @ 7.35 pace. Met DrQ for this at his gaf and headed to the Phoenix park. The rain was pouring down. Really enjoyed it. Such a typical Irish thing to say but I much preferred running in the rain today than the heat yesterday.

davedanon

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

Monday: 10 miles @ 7 minute pace. Had to head out mid morning for this. Absolute cracker of a day. Moving along nicely

Tuesday: 8 miles @ 6.40 pace. Was unsure what to do on this one. I like to take a down week every 4th week where I do no sessions while training for a marathon but haven't felt the need to do that so far with the half marathon training. Decided on Sunday that I'd do mile reps on Tuesday and take the rest of the week handy before the 10 mile race on Saturday. Wasn't in the form starting out with these and legs were a bit tired/heavy. Juggling a fair few things in work at the moment and just wasn't in the mood/head space for mile reps solo if I'm honest. Got stuck into first rep and was building into it, then looked at watch after 3 minutes or so to see the GPS had lost signal. Had a hissy fit and decided there and then to kill the session. Took it as a sign just to run easy the rest of the week. Think it is the sensible thing to do in hindsight. Was also a very warm evening and I actually got little burnt.

Wednesday: 12.5 miles @ 7.35 pace. Met DrQ for this at his gaf and headed to the Phoenix park. The rain was pouring down. Really enjoyed it. Such a typical Irish thing to say but I much preferred running in the rain today than the heat yesterday.

Wait until the lads hear that Fitzy doesn't follow the Fitzy plan!

TRR_the_turd

Thursday: 7 miles @ 7.20 pace. Easy run along the canal. Legs feeling a little jaded and niggly.

Friday: 5 miles @ 7.30 pace. Legs feeling a little less tired and a little less niggly than the day before. Nice run along the canal again.

Saturday: 14 miles total with 10 mile race in 55.17. Delighted with this. It's actually a PB. Was very unsure how I was going to go in this. I reckoned I needed to be running 56 minutes low to have any chance of running a half marathon PB in 4 weeks time. Got into my running quite quickly and fell in behind a good group of 10 runners or so who I know run similar times to me. Was feeling good but stayed disciplined and hung with the group. At the turn back onto Chesterfield avenue I was feeling very good and could see a guy I know was about 20-30 seconds ahead of me. Decided to push on and see if I could catch him. Another lad came with me and I kind of got the feeling he was really running within himself. He was pulling me along nicely and the gap to the lad ahead was closing. However around 8 miles my pacer pushed on and caught up with the lad ahead. I was now on my own and I could hear a group catching me. It felt like a nightmare. The 9th mile has some hills and that split fell back to 6.05. I was genuinely wrecked could hear the footsteps of the group get even closer. I upped the pace as much as I could over the last mile but I felt like I was going 6+ minutes. With 200 or so to go I was caught by 3 lads but after going by me they didn't push on so with 60 metres to go I put in a little sprint and managed to over haul them. I was actually delighted with that. The last mile was also one of my fastest (5.24) which is another positive. Legs in a heap afterwards

Sunday: 5 miles @ 7.30 pace. Handy little run in the evening. Legs quite tender but no niggles.

Right so 4 weeks to the half marathon. 10 miler was a little confidence booster and has really focused the mind. Hope to get 3 good weeks of training in now and then ease off for the week leading up to the race. Need to give the legs a couple of days to recover first though, they are pretty shattered.

edit: I should say that the 10 mile route is actrually quite fast. First time I've ran this route and I really liked it. I don't think it would be possible to get a quicker 10 mile route in the Phoenix park than this one