Berlin 2016: Back to Basics

tunguska

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Looks like a tough session all right. I actually couldn't run with an incline that steep. I don't think my calf/achilles could take it. I can run hills outdoors but find it hard on the treadmill. Did you see this link that BB67 posted in another thread ?

13kmh at 8% incline equates to 6 minute miling. I would have thought it was quicker. I best running at 16kmh on a 1% incline would feel a lot easier

Ah no worries, it looks like a fairly steep incline but for some reason once you get started you forget about it, feels ok.
Those tables look good but I'd have to say that 13km/hr at 8% feels way tougher than 6mins/mile. Feels more like 5:40 and by the time you get to the 4th interval it feels like 5mins/mile.

Although its clearing up rapidly outside so I'd say it'll we'll all be back in action by tomorrow anyway.

Krusty_Clown

tunguska wrote: »

After a few minutes warm up, incline the treadmill at 8% and run at 13km/hr. Hold this for 15minutes.

Will definitely give this a go, next time I'm stuck in a hotel. See if I can get through a single rep..

Abhainn

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Will definitely give this a go, next time I'm stuck in a hotel. See if I can get through a single rep..

That session seems fecking hard alright. I didn't realise the setting of 16km is actually equivalant to 06:15 / mile. Some people I know will not be too happy.
Cant wait for indoor sessions next week

Krusty_Clown

Abhainn wrote: »

That session seems fecking hard alright. I didn't realise the setting of 16km is actually equivalant to 06:15 / mile. Some people I know will not be too happy.
Cant wait for indoor sessions next week

When I was holed up in Beijing for a couple of weeks, I found some parks where you could go for an easy run. Amazing stuff to watch the Tai Chi, Tea ceremonies, checkers type competitions, in a park thousands of years old, and best of all: the guys doing jump kicks every time they ran over a bridge. Don't miss the chance!

Eh.. Nice work on the treadmill there, Roadrunner!

TheRoadRunner

Sunday: 7 miles at 7 minute pace. Picked up a chest infection so no running today or yesterday, nothing too serious and should be OK to run tomorrow but will give it an extra 24-48 hours.

Well I've decided to ease back on the training big time for the remainder of this month. I will still get out most days but sessions and longer runs are not on my agenda. Originally I had planned to take it easy after Waterford half but was rescheduling my training so I could run it in January. On reflection I think this a bad thing and I will stick my original plan (see below).

It's a bit early for a year in review post but I'm going to do mine now as I don't intend on doing anything too strenous until the new year. 2010 has been without doubt my best year running wise. I ran some PBs and really enjoyed some races but the highlight for me was staying injury free. Last November I was pretty unfit and not enjoying my running by March I was enjoying my running even though I was running very slowly in training. To give an indication how good my year was I've listed my PBs at the start of the year followed by the fastest time I ran this year.


2 mile 9.55 10.14
5k 15.40 16.00
4 miles 21.01 21.14
5 miles 26.50 27.18
10k 35.20 34.22
8 miles 45.30 46.30
10 miles 56.30 56.xx
half marathon 75.16 79.00
marathon 2.47 2.48

I'm delighted with all of these times some PBs there and some close to PBs. I'm raging the half marathon didn't go ahead as I thought I could run a low 74 and maybe get into 73 territory. The half I did run was in Larne and was a 'hore of a course (thanks SP).

5 mile time would have been quicker if there wasn't a cock up at Irish runner 5 mile as I was moving well that day. The day I really went for a 10k time coincided with crappy windy weather but still happy enough as gives me something to build on.

5k was a shock as I did no speed training of note this year. 8 mile was off road.

10 miler was a great run. When you're looking around at 8 miles wondering how the f uck you are running with lads you've never beaten and then go on to drop them it's a good run. Ran myself into the ground but it was worth it.

Marathon time was OK in relative terms, I did this marathon to get fit again (ditto for every marathon I've ever ran) and was on for a 2.46 until the hills/heat of Madrid caught up with me at mile 25.

Anyway instead of being greedy I'm going to relax and get my mojo back. Forcing myself to run the last few months when things have been mental at home and work wasn't always nice. The indoor running due to snow nearly drove me mental. Next year is a big year running wise. The mrs is on board and holidays and even my work schedule (the bit I have control over) has been arranged with racing in mind.

I've decided I'm going to train for a marathon when I'm close to full fitness instead of my normal stone overweight start. The plan is simple. Base training in January and will target a fast time in Raheny 5. Will do some BHAA XC as hard sessions to keep me race fit and interested. March I will run a 4 mile and my clubs 5k. I will be doing 10k specific training at this point and expect to run sub 21 and 16 respectively. Then it's head down and all systems go for national 10k where I will target a low 33 min finish. Half marathon in May followed by a week holiday/easy running, some more base/10k training and then it's all guns for the Berlin marathon where I expect to take a massive chunk off my marathon time. I will be following a 12-14 intense marathon program. Any more than this I generally get injured. I will devise the program myself.

I am going to train like a 2.30 runner. I'm not saying I will run that time but I genuinely believe I have that in the tank if I stay injury free and train properly. I had VO2 max tests done back in the summer and these tell me that the ability is there. Hopefully I can maximise that ability. Of course all of the above could go arse ways and if they do I'll re-evaluate.

Anyway long auld post, won't be posting much until the new year (training wise).

By the way my favorite race of the year was the Le Cheile 5k closely followed by the 10k in Blessington (The Lakes). If you get a chance to do either next year take it. Absolutely brilliant races and a great spread at both.

Viva La RoadRunner, viva la resistance

TheRoadRunner

It's been a few weeks since I posted and since then I've been doing some serious ninja training. Weekly mileage is just below 60 miles per week and after a few awful weeks early in January things are starting to click. Mileage will increase slightly for the remainder of Feb and get into the 70s in March (fingers crossed). I had planned running the Raheny 5 but pulled out as I had a shin niggle and sessions weren't going to plan.

Things have turned around the last 2-3 weeks and I'm going to run the cupids dash this weekend. Was planning heading to Enniscorthy as the field there will be much better and chances of getting pulled around to a fastish time would definitely be greater. Family life has intervened so will keep it as local as possible. My mother and mother in law reckon I'm looking skinny (relatively speaking in my view, not skinny for a runner) so that's a green light for me to get the racing flats on.

The title of this thread actually relates to my weight. I have "a racing weight" but recently I realised this is a good few pounds heavier than it should be. I usually hit this weight at the end of a marathon cycle but I'm usually desperately overweight at the start of those cycles as I generally use marathons to loose weight before racing over shorter distances (I like to do things arse ways).

I made a concerted effort to get down to this racing weight by the end of March and hopefully drop another 7lbs by the time Berlin rolls around, this weight be closer to what I should be. I had some physiology tests a couple of weeks back (VO2 max, lactatae threshhold, lung capacity, blood count, body fat % etc) and the tester reckons this is definitely the way to go weight wise. Since January I've dropped half a stone and I'm now 1lb under my old race weight. I'm ahead of schedule and the main thing I put this weight loss down to is reduced alcohol intake (none in Jan) and healthier snacks during the day.

I should be able to shed some more weight over the coming months and June onwards I will get super anal to make sure I'm not carrying too much body fat (I've dropped 1% in the last 3 weeks). The body fat % is apparently a better indicator than weight but they are obviously connected.

Anyway I'll start posting again next week. I'll run as hard as I can Sunday but am not expecting too much, I need a race to let me know where I am at fitness wise. With a bit of luck a couple of runners in or around my standard will toe the line and give me something to work off.

Viva La RoadRunner

tunguska

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I'm going to run the cupids dash this weekend

I might be there myself. The achilles has been at me since cc race on sunday but hopefully it'll have calmed a bit by then. Depth of field will be poor though.

TheRoadRunner

tunguska wrote: »

I might be there myself. The achilles has been at me since cc race on sunday but hopefully it'll have calmed a bit by then. Depth of field will be poor though.

Cool. Yeah don't expect too many club runners.

Krusty_Clown

Where did you get the Physiology test done? Would you recommend it? You're definitely all guns blazing for Berlin.

I will get super anal

Maybe post a little more often about the running, and a little less often about your social life.

aero2k

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Where did you get the Physiology test done? Would you recommend it? You're definitely all guns blazing for Berlin.

+1. Would you be willing to share the results or are they top secret?:)

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Maybe post a little more often about the running, and a little less often about your social life.

Glad I had finished my coffee before I read that!

Krusty, let's make a pact not to post here anymore - I just read his list of PBs and I don't want to provide any more encouragement!

TheRoadRunner

End of last week was a disaster, hit ~45 miles for the week. Had to take Saturday off as I had vomiting bug. Saturday evening I had zero energy and slept for 16 hours. Thankfully when I woke up Sunday morning I was 100 times better. In a moment of madness I contemplated running the cupids dash as I had preregistered. Luckily I realised this would have been madness and I had to take Sunday off as well in the end as was very weak physically. There's a race Saturday week I may do. I need to do something to see where my race fitness is at.

This week.

Monday: 8 miles at 7.20 pace along trails and canal bank
Tuesday: 8.25 miles @ 6.50 pace along trails and canal bank

Feeling really good but to be expected after a couple of days in bed.

Krusty_Clown

There's a good race this Sunday.

TheRoadRunner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

There's a good race this Sunday.

Oh Jesus no. I'm feeling sick again . I've been burnt on the hills too much for my liking. Would only consider a ascent only race and even then would want to be on speed.

TheRoadRunner

Wednesday: 8 miles @ 7.15 pace. Included 8 * 2 minutes at slightly faster than 10k pace. 1 min slow jog recovery. Remainder of run was warmup/cooldown.

Was wet and windy yesterday and today was wet and sweaty, end result is a nippleless roadrunner

TheRoadRunner

Had a small head cold and cough at the start of the week. Wednesdays effort must have tipped me over the edge and woke up Thursday not feeling the best. As I was driving into work I started to feel worse. Had an easy 10 miles penciled in but made the decision there and then it would be crazy to try and push myself to run when I felt so bad.

This is a big step for me, in the last 12-18 months I have gained some sense. In previous years I would have ran the 10 miles and subsequently missed a week as a result. I even managed to give myself pneumonia once I felt like $hite Thursday evening and was resigned to missing out on the remainder of the week. Luckily I felt better yesterday and today am nearly back to 100%. Decided to do a 30 minute run to see how I was and was determined to stop if I wasn't feeling perfect.

After 15 minutes I knew I was operating on full cylinders and ended up doing 10 miles in the glorious afternoon sunshine. Not the smartest thing to do I know but I felt fine. Best run this year by far. So enjoyable and the endorphins coupled with the sunshine have me in great form. Hope to save this week with a long run tomorrow. If I can manage to bag this, I will have only realistically missed one training day. Had planned mile reps on Friday and rest day today. I'm not too worried about this as I found last year I was able to run quite fast (relatively speaking) off slow mileage. I'm disappointed with the last couple of weeks as I've had to miss a couple of days here and there, but realistically they couldn't be avoided and overall things are on track.

Saturday: 10 miles @ 6.40 pace.

TheRoadRunner

Sunday 15 miles @ 6.34.

What can I say, very happy with this run. Was hoping to dip under 7 min pace but met up with SP who is going well at the moment and he dragged me around. Actually felt very easy and was chatting the entire run.

Tried out another new gel, went down quite well but I think after my intensive market research over the last few weeks I will stick with the lucozade sport gels. They taste nice and are sold in the shopping centre around the corner from me so result.

Weight is down again this week and so is body fat, all going in the right direction. One thing that was picked up in the physiology tests is that I may have normal to high blood pressure and was told to keep an eye on it. I have an electronic machine to keep track of it and it is definitely higher (certain times of the day) than it should be. I might cause panic on the main forum and seek some medical advice All joking aside, it's something I need to look into as my diet is pretty decent and low in salt. If anybody has any tips please PM me. I'm taking measurements twice a day and will visit my GP if I see a trend of elevated BP.

TheRoadRunner

Monday: 8.5 miles on trails at 7.20 pace. A little tired from yesterday but feeling good overall. Think I'm racing going to race a 10k in Birr this Saturday morning. A couple of lads from work are doing it so said I would join them. Looking forward to seeing where the fitness is really at.

TheRoadRunner

Tuesday: 8 miles @ 6.57 pace. Nice run. Stomach still a little tender from vomiting bug a few days back. Had to jump into the bushes at 3 miles for a pikey poo. All good after that.

Wednesday: 9 miles @ 7.10ish pace. Included 9 * 2 minutes close to current 10k pace, 1 minute recovery. Should have been only 8 reps but lost count. Felt very easy and was moving well. Rest of run was easy running. Stomach still a little dodgy but pikey poo free today.

Definitely doing 10k this weekend. Don't care if it is short etc as just need a course to run a time trial on. Race time will help me target a realistic time for national 10k in just over 6 weeks and also training paces. In the meantime I've also penciled in the MSB 5k on the 20th and the Dunboyne 4 on the 27th. Both are on a Sunday and are not target races, just want them for race practice and to toughen me up a little. Won't ease off too much the weeks I run these as they are part of my prep for a fast time in the 10k hopefully.

TheRoadRunner

I haven't been as good as I should have been in the last week eating wise. A few crappy snacks sneaked in and ended up with a takeaway one night due to later working hours/laziness. Weight up very slightly this week but nothing significant, hopefully will get back to last weeks weight next week. I reckon this was a little lower than it should have been due to vomiting bug.

Thursday: 9 miles at 7.37 pace, very easy run all on trails and canal bank. Very enjoyable in the sunshine. Easy 6 penciled in for tomorrow and then hope to run well Saturday morning. No idea where I'm at the moment so will be interested to see how fast/slow I can go.

TheRoadRunner

Friday: 5.6 miles @ 8.15 pace. Nice and easy on grass with KC and S4E

Saturday: 10k race. Headed to this not knowing much about it but two lads from work were supposed to do it so I said I'd tag along and see where my fitness is at. Main aim was to go sub 35 as his would realistically give me a chance of going sub 34 in 7 weeks time. Not many club runners in field as most of them were competing in national xc in santry. One of the lads from work didn't travel either and I was hoping to use him as my target. After a mile I was basically on my own running a time trial. Finished in 34.30 which I am very pleased with, the course itself was fair, a few inclines but you got them back with some nice declines. Wind in 2nd half was a bitch and I lost 20 seconds in second half. I reckon with somebody to run with 34.10-15 would have been possible (but who knows). Happy with fitness, a win (a win's a win after all) and a nice cheque Laced it back to Santry in time to see Sweeney absolutely dominate the men's race. Was very impressive. By my calculation DSD also won the title easily so nice to see the Clonliffe dominance of recent years broken.

10 miles total including warm up cool down.

Krusty_Clown

Nice one RoadRunner. A win's a win, and a solid time to boot. You're illnesses over recent weeks must not have taken that much out of you. Should be in with a good shot of sub 34.

TheRoadRunner

Sunday: plan for today was 8-10 miles very easy. Did 7 (at 6.45 pace) and called it a day as I was moving too fast and just couldn't slow myself down. Legs are tired after yesterday and also a little sore. On days like today I find it easier to run at a faster tempo than a slower tempo. I know it sounds whacko but when the legs are bashed, psychologically I push myself to get the run finished quicker. Running up tempo actually feels better for the legs but in the long term it isn't and I'll pay tomorrow and Tuesday now. Weekly mileage was just below 60 which is close to what I had planned, a mile here/there taken off 1/2 runs during the week account for this but in the grand scheme of things I'm not chasing mileage targets so no complaints.

Next week is going to be mostly mileage. Have a stags the weekend and this is going to really mess things up. I'm bringing my runners and hopefully will structure the week so that I'll only miss Sunday. Speed session would have been put off until Friday to help me recover from race yesterday. May have to skip speed and just do something up tempo instead.

TheRoadRunner

Monday: 8.5 miles @ 7.25 pace on trail and canal bank. Felt good, weather is brilliant man I love the sun. Legs still a little tender but not really that tired if that makes sense.

I've been drawing up a training plan for my next marathon and one thing that is very clear is that I need an increase in my weekly mileage. Nothing mental but I need to average 10-15 miles per week more than I have done in the past.

I've been crunching the numbers for a few weeks and there is no way I'll be able to hit targets without introducing some double days. I hate doubles, I've tried them a number of times before and have found them to be too time consuming and take the fun out of training for me. I also get very tired from them. I think I have ran too hard in the past though so I need to reign in the pace and use them as recoveries as they should be.

To help acclimatize myself I'm going to start introducing the doubles ASAP. That way when I'll hopefully be semi-use to them instead of introducing them when I'm already struggling with high intensity training. I'm hoping to start tomorrow and do doubles every Tuesday for the next 6 weeks. Hopefully after that I will be able to do an additional double on a Thursday for a number of weeks and then really hit the ground running in late June/July. If they don't work out I'll scrap them as I'd rather run 60 odd miles a week and enjoy it then 75 and have my hobby feel like an almighty chore. I'll play it by year.

bo-sco

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Monday: 8.5 miles @ 7.25 pace on trail and canal bank. Felt good, weather is brilliant man I love the sun. Legs still a little tender but not really that tired if that makes sense.

I've been drawing up a training plan for my next marathon and one thing that is very clear is that I need an increase in my weekly mileage. Nothing mental but I need to average 10-15 miles per week more than I have done in the past.

I've been crunching the numbers for a few weeks and there is no way I'll be able to hit targets without introducing some double days. I hate doubles, I've tried them a number of times before and have found them to be too time consuming and take the fun out of training for me. I also get very tired from them. I think I have ran too hard in the past though so I need to reign in the pace and use them as recoveries as they should be.

To help acclimatize myself I'm going to start introducing the doubles ASAP. That way when I'll hopefully be semi-use to them instead of introducing them when I'm already struggling with high intensity training. I'm hoping to start tomorrow and do doubles every Tuesday for the next 6 weeks. Hopefully after that I will be able to do an additional double on a Thursday for a number of weeks and then really hit the ground running in late June/July. If they don't work out I'll scrap them as I'd rather run 60 odd miles a week and enjoy it then 75 and have my hobby feel like an almighty chore. I'll play it by year.

Can you run to work? That's what I do in order to get in extra mileage. Doesn't feel as much of a chore to get out for the second time in a day when you're doing it in order to get home! I find that introducing doubles kill your legs for about 2/3 weeks but once you've broken through that they're fine.

TheRoadRunner

bo-sco wrote: »

Can you run to work? That's what I do in order to get in extra mileage. Doesn't feel as much of a chore to get out for the second time in a day when you're doing it in order to get home! I find that introducing doubles kill your legs for about 2/3 weeks but once you've broken through that they're fine.

No, it's 14.5 miles minimum but I do run in occasionally and during marathon training use it as a long mid week run. Thanks for the advice I'll give it 3 weeks before deciding to pack it in or not How frequently would you run doubles?

bo-sco

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

No, it's 14.5 miles minimum but I do run in occasionally and during marathon training use it as a long mid week run. Thanks for the advice I'll give it 3 weeks before deciding to pack it in or not How frequently would you run doubles?

It depends. It's 6 miles each way so I only do it on non race weeks. I've been trying to do it twice a week recently, usually on a Wednesday and Thursday. I've found that if you want to get fit in a hurry you can't beat extra mileage, brings me on a ton anyway. Might be a good way of getting injured in a hurry too though if you're not careful :-(

Abhainn

Well TRR nice time trial there. Form wise you seem to be close to where you were last Oct
I know you are aiming for a fast marathon i Berlin but what kind of weekly milage are you aiming for?
My understanding is that one should consider doing doubles if distance is over 70-75 miles / week.
Wise of you to consider start implementing them soon now rather than 3 months;)

TheRoadRunner

Abhainn wrote: »

I know you are aiming for a fast marathon i Berlin but what kind of weekly milage are you aiming for?
My understanding is that one should consider doing doubles if distance is over 70-75 miles / week.

Well I've nothing set in stone yet but I hope to be running 70 miles per week minimum for 8-12 weeks leading up to Berlin. At the moment hitting 60 is tough running singles. I know lengthening my mid week run and weekend run will bring me close to 70 but would actually like to do a little more than that. I'll experiment for a while and see what suits me. I don't do well when I increase the mileage but I'm hoping that's because I have done it too fast in the past.

TheRoadRunner

Tuesday: AM 8.3 miles @ 7.32 pace with Ecoli. Great run mostly on grass. PM 4.5 miles @ 7.28 on grass. Evening pace was probably too quick but the evening sunshine had me buzzing. First double in ages and felt fine afterward. The real test is in 5-6 weeks when I've strung a few weeks of them together. It's easy doing these things as a once off but building up the stamina to do them consistently and injury free will be a small challenge for me.

Wednesday: 8.5 @ 6.43. Included 9*2 minutes at 10k pace with 1 jog minute recovery. Rest of run was easy warm up and cool down. Felt very good on warm up, legs nice and loose but knew there would be some tiredness when I cranked the pace up. Ideally I would have done this session on Friday. Today was a little close to the last weekends race but the way the week is panning out it was today or never. With that in mind I decided to run by feel and totally forget about keeping an eye on the watch. Was a great session and running in the sunshine makes it so easy.

Have a long run and 8-10 miles to do tomorrow and Friday. Ideally long run would be Friday but time limits may mean I do this tomorrow. Not ideal the day after a session so will need to make sure the pace is nice and easy. More interested in the time spent on my feet then how quick I'm traveling. Feeling good at the moment and feel my fitness has increased over the last few weeks. Long may it continue.

TheRoadRunner

Thursday: 14 miles @ 7.03 pace. This was very tough. This week and last Saturdays race finally caught up with me today in a strange way. Biomechanically I feel great. My legs are loose and my stretching of late has defintely helped. Last night I was starving and felt listless. Knowing I had a longish run today I had 2 scones last night and a large carbo rich brekie this morning, but even this morning I felt like my blood sugars where low so I had some jaffa cakes (on top of my usual banana and raisins) mid morning.

I've been practicing taking gels on my longer runs recently and I am now a firm believer these are miracle pouches of goo. After 3 miles today I was in trouble, not just tiredness, I was quite light headed and felt like I had no energy. There and then I popped the two gels and did a u-turn back for home as I was afraid a walking stint was going to be required. Within 5 minutes I felt 100 times better and managed to see out my run. It was quite cold while I was running at first as well so I wonder if this had an effect. Anyway miles 6-14 were fine and very enjoyable. Was even going to tag on another mile or two but decided not to push my luck. Looking at my log last night this week has not been ideal. It's been a case of trying to front load the majority of my runs early in the week. Will run very easy tomorrow and Saturday (hopefully) and take Sunday off. Big week next week, going to work hard on sessions so I'm as sharp as possible for the 10th of April.