ACCOUNTING AFTERMATH

JellyBeans92

cf10 wrote: »

If they do go easier on the marking scheme will it just be for the people in dublin?

Thats fair enough i suppose but wouldn't mind them going easy on the rest of us too cos that paper was so hard!!

I'm not sure how that would work, like only marking people in South Dublin easier?..
Wouldn't that sefeat the point of fairness in the LC, since these students were given equal or even more time than the rest of us to complete the paper.

Like I found in that paper I was writing down to the last minute, and I can normally finish something like a Q1 in 40mins, the Service firm took me as long as my Q1 (Which actually took me 50mins.). I would have been more than happy with that extra 30-45 mins some centres got

I know it was a panic for them, but the rest of us Accounting students around the country were sent into a panic when the Irish Times said the was going to be an error on the HL paper..
I dunno about anyone else, but I was worried b/c I thought that it must be a BIG if we all know BEFORE the exam actually starts?

Does anyone think there would be as much media coverage if the centres affected were in let's say Wexford.. or Tipperary?.

RexMundi

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

I'm not sure how that would work, like only marking people in South Dublin easier?..
Wouldn't that sefeat the point of fairness in the LC, since these students were given equal or even more time than the rest of us to complete the paper.

Like I found in that paper I was writing down to the last minute, and I can normally finish something like a Q1 in 40mins, the Service firm took me as long as my Q1 (Which actually took me 50mins.). I would have been more than happy with that extra 30-45 mins some centres got

I know it was a panic for them, but the rest of us Accounting students around the country were sent into a panic when the Irish Times said the was going to be an error on the HL paper..
I dunno about anyone else, but I was worried b/c I thought that it must be a BIG if we all know BEFORE the exam actually starts?

Does anyone think there would be as much media coverage if the centres affected were in let's say Wexford.. or Tipperary?.

Dear God.. you have some issues.

You really have no idea the panic it caused. We spent 15 minutes of the exam not doing anything since we presumed we'd have to resit it. The invigilators didn't know what to do.

The 20 minutes extra we got did not make up for the lost time overall. It also did not make up for the panic it caused. If you think that thinking that there was some error that people knew about is as bad if not worse than seeing your paper is a complete shambles and no one knows what to do about it, you are severely misguided.

Also, you have a serious chip on your shoulder against South Dublin. The SEC made a massive hash up here. So much depends on the Leaving and there is so much pressure about it that the least the SEC should do is check the papers. Remarks like your final one really bug me. Of course this would get the same coverage if it happened anywhere else. It was an absolute disgrace.

Between this, the shambles that was the Junior Cert Business Paper and minor errors on such a ridiculous number of other papers (Physics yesterday for example), the SEC should be ashamed of themselves.

pathway33

plus students in oatlands college stillorgan got an extra 50 minutes but students in blackrock only got an extra 10 minutes. So you can't be equally easy on the schools with the dodgy papers. Seems there was no standard emergency procedure in place by the SEC as to how much time to allow students. Seems it was left up to the individual invigilators.

**Timbuk2**

I think it's irrelevant whether it was South Dublin, North Dublin, Mayo or even Libya (they do the LC in some parts of Libya!)

Even if there was initial confusion, and panic, you still got the full time from when you got the full paper - so if you had worked yourself into such a fuss that you did nothing for 45 minutes, you didn't lose out. Those that had the ability to compose themselves could have nearly had their Q1 done in that time. They were then presented with the paper, 3 hours, and could do the rest of their questions. Imagine only having 3 questions to do in 3 hours. They could spend about 1hr 10 mins on each 100 mark and 40 minutes on budgeting.

In the meantime other students from around the country had to squeeze every single minute of the exam

Cian92

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I think it's irrelevant whether it was South Dublin, North Dublin, Mayo or even Libya (they do the LC in some parts of Libya!)

Even if there was initial confusion, and panic, you still got the full time from when you got the full paper - so if you had worked yourself into such a fuss that you did nothing for 45 minutes, you didn't lose out. Those that had the ability to compose themselves could have nearly had their Q1 done in that time. They were then presented with the paper, 3 hours, and could do the rest of their questions. Imagine only having 3 questions to do in 3 hours. They could spend about 1hr 10 mins on each 100 mark and 40 minutes on budgeting.

In the meantime other students from around the country had to squeeze every single minute of the exam

Students didn't have the full selection of questions. How in Gods name were they meant to decide which questions to choose, if they didn't have them all in front of them. They should have collected the papaer back up, left students in the hall, not allowed talk to each other. Then let them do the exam once the full papers had arrived.

I would have nothing against a different marking scheme being applied to those who didn't get the full paper.

EuropeanSon

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I think it's irrelevant whether it was South Dublin, North Dublin, Mayo or even Libya (they do the LC in some parts of Libya!)

Even if there was initial confusion, and panic, you still got the full time from when you got the full paper - so if you had worked yourself into such a fuss that you did nothing for 45 minutes, you didn't lose out. Those that had the ability to compose themselves could have nearly had their Q1 done in that time. They were then presented with the paper, 3 hours, and could do the rest of their questions. Imagine only having 3 questions to do in 3 hours. They could spend about 1hr 10 mins on each 100 mark and 40 minutes on budgeting.

In the meantime other students from around the country had to squeeze every single minute of the exam

I agree totally with this. I'd have been delighted with an extra 50 mins, if you are of such a weak disposition that it caused you to mess up the exam that's your problem.

randylonghorn

Cian92 wrote: »

One of the teachers in our school, said they know which school they are correcting, and have a list of all the students. They just don't know which script corresponds with each name.

0_o

Since when??!!

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

Does anyone think there would be as much media coverage if the centres affected were in let's say Wexford.. or Tipperary?.

Yes.

pathway33 wrote: »

plus students in oatlands college stillorgan got an extra 50 minutes but students in blackrock only got an extra 10 minutes.

Wow! Mess!

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Even if there was initial confusion, and panic, you still got the full time from when you got the full paper - so if you had worked yourself into such a fuss that you did nothing for 45 minutes, you didn't lose out.

See the post above you.

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I agree totally with this. I'd have been delighted with an extra 50 mins, if you are of such a weak disposition that it caused you to mess up the exam that's your problem.

Spoken like a true mathematician! :P

EuropeanSon

randylonghorn wrote: »

0_o

Since when??!!

Yes.

Wow! Mess!

See the post above you.

Spoken like a true mathematician! :P

I'm just not into all that whiny emotional cr@p. IMO, you are able to figure out the answers, or you're not. A mixup of papers shouldn't stop your brain from working.

randylonghorn

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I'm just not into all that whiny emotional cr@p. IMO, you are able to figure out the answers, or you're not. A mixup of papers shouldn't stop your brain from working.

As I said, spoken like a true mathematician!

Mix-up of papers --> stress --> brain stops working for sub-set C, where sub-set C is defined as Set A (all those doing LC) minus sub-set B (mathematicians).

Any clearer now?

EuropeanSon

randylonghorn wrote: »

As I said, spoken like a true mathematician!

Mix-up of papers --> stress --> brain stops working for sub-set C, where sub-set C is defined as Set A (all those doing LC) minus sub-set B (mathematicians).

Any clearer now?

I didn't disagree with you in the first place. :P

RexMundi

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I agree totally with this. I'd have been delighted with an extra 50 mins, if you are of such a weak disposition that it caused you to mess up the exam that's your problem.

Who got an extra 50 minutes?

I hear Oatlands got 40 added on.

We got 15-20
Blackrock got 10 minutes.
Anyone else I heard got around the same as ourselves.

AND it was not EXTRA time but time to make up for the time at the start when people did not have a clue what was going on. People were thinking, maybe we'll have to resit this so why bother starting?

I would have loved an extra 50 minutes. No one got an extra 50 minutes.

Everyone in my exam hall, where we got messed up papers, which some posters think made things easier... seriously, you guys don't have a clue.. was pressed for time. We finished 20 minutes later but were writing for less than the standard 3 hours.

If people would stop belittling the trouble caused to people in a situation that they clearly are misinformed about, it would be nice.

pathway33

RexMundi wrote: »

Who got an extra 50 minutes?

No one got an extra 50 minutes.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0622/1224273031049.html?via=mr

pathway33

http://www.finegael.org/news/a/3289/article

EuropeanSon

RexMundi wrote: »

Who got an extra 50 minutes?

I hear Oatlands got 40 added on.

We got 15-20
Blackrock got 10 minutes.
Anyone else I heard got around the same as ourselves.

AND it was not EXTRA time but time to make up for the time at the start when people did not have a clue what was going on. People were thinking, maybe we'll have to resit this so why bother starting?

I would have loved an extra 50 minutes. No one got an extra 50 minutes.

Everyone in my exam hall, where we got messed up papers, which some posters think made things easier... seriously, you guys don't have a clue.. was pressed for time. We finished 20 minutes later but were writing for less than the standard 3 hours.

If people would stop belittling the trouble caused to people in a situation that they clearly are misinformed about, it would be nice.

If people have the paper in front of them, even if it's just sine of the questions, and they don't start, they are idiots. Why should someone get special treatment for being an idiot?

I'd still have been delighted with an extra 10 mins, and would have used it to full effect.

RexMundi

pathway33 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0622/1224273031049.html?via=mr

As I said, no school got an extra 50 minutes.

Oatlands were, I have been told, one of the schools where the exams were taken up and put on hold until the extra questions were received.

EuropeanSon wrote: »

If people have the paper in front of them, even if it's just sine of the questions, and they don't start, they are idiots. Why should someone get special treatment for being an idiot?

I'd still have been delighted with an extra 10 mins, and would have used it to full effect.

Obviously you don't have a clue. I don't know what "sine of the questions" means (we didn't have nine of them if that is what you mean).

It is clear that a number of people on this thread have neither the ability or the compunction to understand the undue stress that this massive cock up caused. The Leaving is stressful enough without this rubbish being set upon us. If you think that the added time was any benefit or in any way made up for the mess that was made, I guarantee you that you are deluding yourselves.

pinkfish

Lets Just SAy my A WEnt Out THe Window AS Soon AS i Opened Thhat Paper! This Was Worse Than The Bland Trauma !lol x

Grace16

Jeez that paper was pretty hard....was completely sure that flexible and clubs were gonna come up. I think i passed at least and in all honesty that's all i wanted as i haven't had the best 2 years of teaching. Can't wait for the results haha

EuropeanSon

RexMundi wrote: »

As I said, no school got an extra 50 minutes.

Oatlands were, I have been told, one of the schools where the exams were taken up and put on hold until the extra questions were received.



Obviously you don't have a clue. I don't know what "sine of the questions" means (we didn't have nine of them if that is what you mean).

It is clear that a number of people on this thread have neither the ability or the compunction to understand the undue stress that this massive cock up caused. The Leaving is stressful enough without this rubbish being set upon us. If you think that the added time was any benefit or in any way made up for the mess that was made, I guarantee you that you are deluding yourselves.

I'm typing on an iPod touch, the keyboard is a touchscreen, hence "sine" instead of some, the i and o keys and m and n keys are right beside each other.

I'm not an over emotional drama queen, so no, I would not have been adversely affected by the mixup. I am not under stress, I'm doing my leaving cert, it's not that stressful, I'm actually enjoying it.

JellyBeans92

RexMundi wrote: »

Obviously you don't have a clue. I don't know what "sine of the questions" means (we didn't have nine of them if that is what you mean).

He doesn't have a clue.. even I could figure out that 'sine' was a typo if you look at the key board and where I and O are, the N and M are..

And we're the ones who don't have a clue?.. =P


Anyway, it was announced at the weekend that there was a HL, so the rest of us poor eijits were stressing half the weekend about that, and severely confused when none were pointed out to us on monday?
I'm not saying the mess up on the booklets wasn't bad, it was.. I think we've established the fact that the SEC are IDIOTS? =P
But everyone was affected by errors (or the lack there of?), so it's not each other we need to affront but the SEC for being so stupid about the whole thing?

Furthermore I totally disagree that the 'affected' centres should be marked easier than the rest of us, because as I said we were all affected in a way?
Plus marking easier in accounting would technically mean changing the marking scheme (because it's figures and such, unlike in english or something where there's kinda more lean-space for variance?) and would defeat the whole point of everyone being marked on the same scale?

unknown13

RexMundi wrote: »

As I said, no school got an extra 50 minutes.

Oatlands were, I have been told, one of the schools where the exams were taken up and put on hold until the extra questions were received.

It doesn't matter how long people got extra for the exam. I have read that article and it is only judging two south dublin schools. Other schools might have been given as much as an hour extra for all we know.

blinkfan

i feel so bad after that paper!!!!!!!!!!! to think i was thinking b4 hand i could do really well, damn you company, club, marginal and flexy!
defo failed!

randylonghorn

pinkfish wrote: »

Lets Just SAy my A WEnt Out THe Window AS Soon AS i Opened Thhat Paper! This Was Worse Than The Bland Trauma !lol x

Whose what went where?!!

Please type in English, using normal grammar and punctuation, please.

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I'm not an over emotional drama queen, so no, I would not have been adversely affected by the mixup. I am not under stress, I'm doing my leaving cert, it's not that stressful, I'm actually enjoying it.

Bully for you!

As I pointed out earlier, not everyone experiences stress in the same way, and that stress can greatly impact on peoples ability to concentrate and think. I thought you said you didn't disagree with me?

If you consider those who find the LC stressful and / or who aren't enjoying it as as over-emotional drama queens, I think you will find that leaves the majority of your peer group in that category.

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

Anyway, it was announced at the weekend that there was a HL, so the rest of us poor eijits were stressing half the weekend about that, and severely confused when none were pointed out to us on monday?

Mind you, you're not helping me persuade him that a reasonable amount of stress is normal, or that people aren't in melodrama mode!

Why were you stressing half the weekend about it? That article referred to the corrections made at the start of the Ord. paper (yes, I realise you didn't know at the time which paper).

Those corrections were read out at the start of the exam, and don't seem to have caused anyone to swoon with shock.

No doubt if they had applied to the Hons paper, no-one would have swooned either.

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

But everyone was affected by errors (or the lack there of?), so it's not each other we need to affront but the SEC for being so stupid about the whole thing?

Furthermore I totally disagree that the 'affected' centres should be marked easier than the rest of us, because as I said we were all affected in a way?

It strikes me that you're trying to talk up your stress over the article in the IT (which they should have had more responsibility than to leak anyway, and you should have had more sense than to take any notice of) as meriting equal consideration with people walking into an exam centre to find themselves confronted with half papers; chaos as superintendents and exam secretaries tried to figure out what to do; no clarity as to whether they would find themselves confronted with another "Englishgate" situation and be required to sit the alternate paper at a later date; eventually getting the right paper and then getting some extra time allowance (which seems to have varied from centre to centre).

Nope ... doesn't wash. Nowhere close to comparable imho.

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

Plus marking easier in accounting would technically mean changing the marking scheme (because it's figures and such, unlike in english or something where there's kinda more lean-space for variance?) and would defeat the whole point of everyone being marked on the same scale?

Marking schemes get changed during the process on occasion, if and when problems or ambiguities with questions become apparent that didn't show up in the early sample marking by the Dep. Chief and Advising Examiners. Any such changes are then applied retrospectively to already marked papers. Marking schemes are not God's given commandments written on a tablet of stone, which man may not change. The important thing is that they are applied consistently to ensure everyone gets a fair cut of the whip, and they are.

Remember that from this stage on a lot is in the hands of the Dep. Chief, Advising and ordinary Examiners. These are mostly practising teachers, including some of your own teachers, and they all have a vested interest in fair play for their own students and everyone else's. As a group, they can apply a HELL of a lot of pressure on the SEC officials if they're not happy with any resolution proposed ... I've seen it happen over smaller things!

JellyBeans92

Just wanted to stress that the situation about the supposed errors got most the people in my accounting class fairly wound up.. that may seem stupid to someone who wasn't actually in the situation of having to sit the accounting paper last monday(?) but it did get people stressed?

When I heard there was an error my thoughts were:
"There's an error.. god there's an error.. the papers wouldn't publish it unless it was serious right.."
(As were quite a few people I know (As I said on reflection stupid, but we were also unfairly put under undue stress?)

The fact that there were no errors announced actually did confuse me?
(I panicked about it when they didn't announce any, like were they there.. did they forget to tell us *my thoughts at the time * )


Not saying I'm right or anything, just expressing my two cents.

unknown13

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

Just wanted to stress that the situation about the supposed errors got most the people in my accounting class fairly wound up.. that may seem stupid to someone who wasn't actually in the situation of having to sit the accounting paper last monday(?) but it did get people stressed?

When I heard there was an error my thoughts were:
"There's an error.. god there's an error.. the papers wouldn't publish it unless it was serious right.."
(As were quite a few people I know (As I said on reflection stupid, but we were also unfairly put under undue stress?)

The fact that there were no errors announced actually did confuse me?
(I panicked about it when they didn't announce any, like were they there.. did they forget to tell us *my thoughts at the time * )


Not saying I'm right or anything, just expressing my two cents.

Your in Wexford and the errors were in South Dublin centres. It was over the media that it was South Dublin centres. Its your own fault you put yourself under that stress.

JellyBeans92

unknown13 wrote: »

Your in Wexford and the errors were in South Dublin centres. It was over the media that it was South Dublin centres. Its your own fault you put yourself under that stress.

It wasn't made known to be only the South Dublin centres affected until after the weekend, after the actual paper if you care to check?.

I'm not saying that worrying was the smartest thing to do, believe me, in hindsight I know it was stupid, but in all fairness, the leak of an non-existant error in the HL paper by the Irish Times was disgracefully unfair?. I'm sure I'm not the only student in the WHOLE country who was panicked by this?

My simple point was that everyone should still be marked the same?.

BTW: Just because I'm in Wexford doesn't actually mean I went to school there?

unknown13

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

It wasn't made known to be only the South Dublin centres affected until after the weekend, after the actual paper if you care to check?.

I'm not saying that worrying was the smartest thing to do, believe me, in hindsight I know it was stupid, but in all fairness, the leak of an non-existant error in the HL paper by the Irish Times was disgracefully unfair?. I'm sure I'm not the only student in the WHOLE country who was panicked by this?

My simple point was that everyone should still be marked the same?.

BTW: Just because I'm in Wexford doesn't actually mean I went to school there?

They aren't going to know which papers are from the affected centres

randylonghorn

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

Not saying I'm right or anything, just expressing my two cents.

As you have every right to do!

And for the record, I can understand some initial slight stress over the IT article ... I would have expected people then to dismiss it as being of no account (bad pun!); that's what I would have done, but perhaps I have more in common with EuropeanSon than I realise!

What I have a difficulty / disagreement about is trying to compare that to the situation in the 16(?) schools where candidates were confronted with half a paper and the resulting chaos ... now *that* I could imagine throwing me pretty seriously!

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

Just wanted to stress that the situation about the supposed errors got most the people in my accounting class fairly wound up.. that may seem stupid to someone who wasn't actually in the situation of having to sit the accounting paper last monday(?) but it did get people stressed?

When I heard there was an error my thoughts were:
"There's an error.. god there's an error.. the papers wouldn't publish it unless it was serious right.."
(As were quite a few people I know (As I said on reflection stupid, but we were also unfairly put under undue stress?)

In fact, in your own post right there you argue that your reaction was widespread among your friends and other students ... so ... doesn't that mean in fact that a level playing field had been re-established, in that everyone was equally affected?

Except, of course, for those in those 16 schools, who had a whole different ballgame to deal with ... presumably, the same stress as yourself and others arising out of the IT article to start with, and then the whole shambles that subsequently occurred.

One can imagine some of them pinching themselves and saying "It's a bad dream! ... I must wake up! ... I'm never reading the farking Irish Times again!!"

JellyBeans92

unknown13 wrote: »

They aren't going to know which papers are from the affected centres

Really, that's alright then?

I heard from someone who sometimes marks papers that the affected papers would be "tagged" or marked?



As long as we're all marked equally (you know what I mean) I'm happy.

EuropeanSon

As I pointed out earlier, not everyone experiences stress in the same way, and that stress can greatly impact on peoples ability to concentrate and think. I thought you said you didn't disagree with me?

If you consider those who find the LC stressful and / or who aren't enjoying it as as over-emotional drama queens, I think you will find that leaves the majority of your peer group in that category.

That is twisting my words. The ones whining that their accounting is ruined by them gaining extra time are the ones that applied to, not anyone who is under stress.

randylonghorn

unknown13 wrote: »

Your in Wexford and the errors were in South Dublin centres. It was over the media that it was South Dublin centres. Its your own fault you put yourself under that stress.

The media furore you are referring to was after the accountancy exam.

JellyBeans is referring to the article in the IT before the exam, which made no mention of S. Dublin, as the IT nor anyone else knew anything of that problem at the time ... it appears, in retrospect, to have been referring to the errors in the OL paper. Completely unconnected.