Would like parents opinions on this.

Deliverance

Friends called on spec today to my flat. I did some work for them on my computer. We had a bit of craic and a laugh as well as I had not seen one chap for awhile and it was great to see him again. It was a nice day with friends.

It was great in that respect and it made my day. However despite it being a hot day, I had to close the window to block out the particular single Moms who were seated below my window in pajamas near the common entrance.

There were 2 out of 3 of them outside and occasionally they would shout out and swear profoundly at their kids. The conversation and craic was broken more than once in stunned silence after hearing the moms in question shouting at their children and calling them little F***ers, little bollixs etc.

I know being single and a parent can be tough but surely this is over the top. What is it with these parents i.e. certain single Moms that do this? And what long term affects does it have on the little kids that they have control over.

I have had visitors previoulsy as well who were shocked to witness the third single mom literally walloping a young chap in front of them.

I don't get these people, I find them different and depressing. It is actually doing my head in, I have applied for a transfer to attempt to get away from them. Any thoughts on this, I really don't get them as neighbours

metrovelvet

I couldn't comment really. Is there something about being married that stops you swearing or is it that you have a husband to swear at instead?

I could theorise that without a father around, the LAW [Yaweh] is also not around and so disciplining becomes harder for the mother, and then that leads to frustration and resentment.

I've noticed what you are talking about in neighborhoods that are rough around the edges but I hadnt noticed wedding rings or the absence thereof.

The effect? Told you are a little **** often enough and you will believe it- the diagnosis becomes the destiny.

Splendour

I think it's extremely sad and I imagine these mothers were brought up hearing the same language from their parents. I know single parents who would absolutely in no way speak to their kids that way. I don't think it's necessarily a single parent issue at all.

MrsA

Not a single parent issue at all. Some people just don't have the language skills or the coping skills to deal with small children. Being married or not does not change that.

Nevyn

It has little to do with being a lone parent but more to do with the fact they were reared to think that type of behaviour is acceptable and to have no manners or common courtesy which means they won't have it to pass on to thier own little darlings.

Trust me there are married parents who are the exact same, there are some who live near and in this weather they are out sitting in the gardens, music blaring from cars drinking all day and roaring at the kids just the same and they live on the same road as me. This type of weather I tend to try and take the kids off for the day saturday and sunday to get away from them.

And that type have the balls to laugh at thier kids calling mine freaks cos they don't have a scumbag accent and have manners and say please and thank you and don't swear.

Ickle Magoo

We have several married couples around us that take great delight in screaming obscenities at their kids - and each other for that matter. I've also seen kids walloped by dads, mums, grans, you name it - I don't think it's fair to direct the questions just at single mums...

Deliverance

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

We have several married couples around us that take great delight in screaming obscenities at their kids - and each other for that matter. I've also seen kids walloped by dads, mums, grans, you name it - I don't think it's fair to direct the questions just at single mums...

No! no this is not aimed at single moms at all. It is just my experience Ickle. Please do not see it as that! I am not that ingnorent! I get your point but that is not the issue here I think.

Deliverance

Thaedydal wrote: »

It has little to do with being a lone parent but more to do with the fact they were reared to think that type of behaviour is acceptable and to have no manners or common courtesy which means they won't have it to pass on to thier own little darlings.

Trust me there are married parents who are the exact same, there are some who live near and in this weather they are out sitting in the gardens, music blaring from cars drinking all day and roaring at the kids just the same and they live on the same road as me. This type of weather I tend to try and take the kids off for the day saturday and sunday to get away from them.

And that type have the balls to laugh at thier kids calling mine freaks cos they don't have a scumbag accent and have manners and say please and thank you and don't swear.

I find unfortunately that I have to put on a hard face and portray myself as a loud person to keep them off my back.

If I am actually nice (I am a nice man) then some folks see that as a weakness for some odd reason. I do not know why that is, but it is to me ironically weak people who are to coin an unforunate term 'Socially backward'. I am different to 'them' for some reason.

mikemac

Walk around your local town, you'll see children getting beat and sworn at.

The children grow up and repeat the process.
Your neighbor is repeating what they have known all their life

Ickle Magoo

Deliverance wrote: »

No! no this is not aimed at single moms at all. It is just my experience Ickle. Please do not see it as that! I am not that ingnorent!

I just meant I could answer the questions in relation to married couples but not single mums so I think that part of the story is fairly redundant as an explanation for their behaviour/questions just about them, I wasn't trying to suggest you were ignorant or being ignorant.

In short, idiots are idiots, bad parents are just that...I'm sorry it's so bad you are having to try to move house. Is there no-one you can complain to? Other neighbours you could team up with to say something?

BostonB

I'm completely baffled why anyone would think its specific to "certain single mums"

Its pretty normal in some sectors of society, usually the poorer ones. Take Roddy Doyles books/movies for example.

Deliverance

Thaedydal wrote: »

It has little to do with being a lone parent but more to do with the fact they were reared to think that type of behaviour is acceptable and to have no manners or common courtesy which means they won't have it to pass on to thier own little darlings.

Trust me there are married parents who are the exact same, there are some who live near and in this weather they are out sitting in the gardens, music blaring from cars drinking all day and roaring at the kids just the same and they live on the same road as me. This type of weather I tend to try and take the kids off for the day saturday and sunday to get away from them.

And that type have the balls to laugh at thier kids calling mine freaks cos they don't have a scumbag accent and have manners and say please and thank you and don't swear.

Thaedyal I do the exact same. I take my kids away for the day to avoid the crappy neighbours as well. My neighbours loiter all day and swear and call their kids that is their life choice. I want better for my little ones.

I really don't want my kids seeing their lifestyle as the norm.

Deliverance

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I just meant I could answer the questions in relation to married couples but not single mums so I think that part of the story is fairly redundant as an explanation for their behaviour/questions just about them, I wasn't trying to suggest you were ignorant or being ignorant.

In short, idiots are idiots, bad parents are just that...I'm sorry it's so bad you are having to try to move house. Is there no-one you can complain to? Other neighbours you could team up with to say something?

This is the massive irony it is a block of flats 6 in each block. 3 of the flats are the single moms and they are all of the same nature that I mentioned. They all get on well 'naturally'.

My best option is to move out if I can. I want better things for my child.

BostonB

Deliverance wrote: »

This is the massive irony it is a block of flats 6 in each block. 3 of the flats are the single moms and they are all of the same nature that I mentioned. They all get on well 'naturally'..

Naturally? What does that mean?

That there are sngle mothers is irrelevent, yet you keep going back to that. You could have described this problem without mentioning single mothers at all.

Deliverance wrote: »

My best option is to move out if I can. I want better things for my child.

You simply don't like your neighbours, because of their behavour. Fair enough. Moving makes sense.

Deliverance

BostonB wrote: »

Naturally? What does that mean?

That there are sngle mothers is irrelevent, yet you keep going back to that. You could have described this problem without mentioning single mothers at all.



You simply don't like your neighbours, because of their behaviour. Fair enough. Moving makes sense.

Fair point Boston. This thread is not a generalisation of single moms though, I would make a point of that and already have. It is literally an experience that I am going through.

I find my 'particular' neighbours have lots in common in this case. They all seem to see their swearing at kids as natural and acceptable behaviour. It is an unfortunate placement that I am in at the moment.

I find their behaviour embarrassing but I am also curious as to their nature. Metro put up the most informative view so far from a different perspective and I wanted to reply as such but got sidetracked by the usual misunderstandings and natural debate.

Thanks Metro, I missed your input you are the only person that has made sense of what I have been sidetract about. Plus Thaeydal as well.

BostonB

You're taking facts in isolation to suit your conculsion. You're also looking for the simple answer where there isn't one. Human behaviour is complex and not always obvious. However, the facts don't actually support your conculsion. For example they also have location in common. They also have you, their neighbour in common.

Just because because facts are true does not always mean they are relevent.This has nothing to do with single mothers, or that they are neighbours.

Your question is simply why do some people curse around their kids and hit their kids. Which is as much about Psychology (if not more), as it is about Parenting

LegacyUser

Do yourself and thaed find it in any way interesting that you "lower" yourself to their level so they "get on with you", and in Thaed's case, that your kids are the ones being teased for being well-behaved??

It's something I've often wondered about - I'm quite well-educated, read everything in front of me, play 2 instruments, speak another language and travel a lot - yet for some reason when I encounter people like this I find I conceal all these things because I know I'd be sneered at. I don't claim to have a high IQ or anything, but I feel like I spend most of my life hiding the fact that I'm halfway intelligent so as not to hurt someone's feelings, or to "fit in". Why is that we cater to the lower common denominator in society? Why do you, Deliverance, and your friends have to sit and listen to that kind of behaviour, and consider moving to avoid it? And Thaed, why do you have to take your kids away for the day to avoid, instead of being able to stay in your house, that you paid for and own?

When did being antisocial and in a lot of cases, uneducated and ignorant, become the acceptable norm? ( and before I get attacked for whatever statements that are not PC, let me assure you I'm not discussing single mothers, people who didn't go to college etc. I am referring to those in our society who are quite simply ignorant, happy to be and not afraid to show it...while those of us who aren't run away and avoid it.) I'm aware it's probably fed by some form of inferiority complex, but it's something I find very hard to understand.

Nevyn

Unfortuantly there are no laws about sitting out in your garden with a box of beer and a litre of spirits and drinking for the day with music blaring, it tends to only happen certain weekend when the weather is fine and I would rather spend my money taking the kids off and out do to something fun and memorable like the festival last weekend then listen to what ever dance hit is in the charts punctuated with the carry on of some of the locals.

I can understand why you consider it running away but I can't see how confronting such people and trying to get them to change their behaviour will achieve anything other then bad blood and the further alienation of my family but it's not from any sort of inferiority complex but just not wanting to be dragged down to thier level, it's aggro I don't need.

metrovelvet

Why????? wrote: »

Do yourself and thaed find it in any way interesting that you "lower" yourself to their level so they "get on with you", and in Thaed's case, that your kids are the ones being teased for being well-behaved??

It's something I've often wondered about - I'm quite well-educated, read everything in front of me, play 2 instruments, speak another language and travel a lot - yet for some reason when I encounter people like this I find I conceal all these things because I know I'd be sneered at. I don't claim to have a high IQ or anything, but I feel like I spend most of my life hiding the fact that I'm halfway intelligent so as not to hurt someone's feelings, or to "fit in". Why is that we cater to the lower common denominator in society? Why do you, Deliverance, and your friends have to sit and listen to that kind of behaviour, and consider moving to avoid it? And Thaed, why do you have to take your kids away for the day to avoid, instead of being able to stay in your house, that you paid for and own?

When did being antisocial and in a lot of cases, uneducated and ignorant, become the acceptable norm? ( and before I get attacked for whatever statements that are not PC, let me assure you I'm not discussing single mothers, people who didn't go to college etc. I am referring to those in our society who are quite simply ignorant, happy to be and not afraid to show it...while those of us who aren't run away and avoid it.) I'm aware it's probably fed by some form of inferiority complex, but it's something I find very hard to understand.

Environment is powerful and people have to make compromises to negotiate with it. And some never do wells will want to drag you down to their level so they dont feel like such **** about themselves.

You will never ever change people like this because they are happy with their lot and dont want to.

I draw the line at watching Desperate housewives so I can follow the conversation of the women at playgroup. I'll be damned if I spend every saturday washing my car and hemming my three year olds pants.

Deliverance - you need new neighbors.

BostonB

its not exactly a simple topic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_nature

Lando Griffin

Maybe they had turrets syndrome you should not pass judgment on other people and their children i'v been told..

LegacyUser

Thaedydal wrote: »

Unfortuantly there are no laws about sitting out in your garden with a box of beer and a litre of spirits and drinking for the day with music blaring, it tends to only happen certain weekend when the weather is fine and I would rather spend my money taking the kids off and out do to something fun and memorable like the festival last weekend then listen to what ever dance hit is in the charts punctuated with the carry on of some of the locals.

I can understand why you consider it running away but I can't see how confronting such people and trying to get them to change their behaviour will achieve anything other then bad blood and the further alienation of my family but it's not from any sort of inferiority complex but just not wanting to be dragged down to thier level, it's aggro I don't need.

Thaed, I don't consider it running away on your part. What I do wonder about is why you feel you have to leave, when you are doing nothing to impact on anybody, rather than the people in question.I also don't mean an inferiority complex on your part...I mean on their part. I understand that people don't want to be having rows about stuff like that. But as an observation of human nature, and particularly human nature in this country, I don't understand why we cater to the lowest common denominator all the time...why we allow this behaviour to become the norm?

I'm not interested in trying to get these people to change either, I know it'll never happen.
I just find it ironic and strange that those who behave like civilized people and who have some level of standards are prepared to sit back and allow those who couldn't give a c"%p to do whatever they want. Deliverance feels he has to get new neighbours, ie move house - which will probably be what ends up happening - instead of being able to go them either himself, or with the support of others, to the people in question, and ask them to stop roaring and shouting and cursing. Because of course if he did that, he'd probably find himself up in a court being accused of god only knows what - again, catering to the lowest common denominator.Even though Deliverance is, in fact, doing absolutely nothing wrong.

Bizarre.Irrelevant to parenting too, I know, but strange!

Nevyn

Why????? wrote: »

Thaed, I don't consider it running away on your part. What I do wonder about is why you feel you have to leave, when you are doing nothing to impact on anybody, rather than the people in question.

They are how ever impacting on me, the noise of them grates and ruins my day so I go elsewhere with my kids rather then having them exposed that that type of behaviour, thankfully it tends to be not every weekend.

Why????? wrote: »

I also don't mean an inferiority complex on your part...I mean on their part. I understand that people don't want to be having rows about stuff like that. But as an observation of human nature, and particularly human nature in this country, I don't understand why we cater to the lowest common denominator all the time...why we allow this behaviour to become the norm?

We don't have the resources to deal with it, no way the garda are going to call up and talk to them, they have better things to be doing.

Why????? wrote: »

Bizarre.Irrelevant to parenting too, I know, but strange!

I don't think that it is as those of us who have standards and dont' carry on in that manner find it harder to parent our children and combat the bad example being set for them by others in the 'community' as it were.

ntlbell

Thaedydal wrote: »

They are how ever impacting on me, the noise of them grates and ruins my day so I go elsewhere with my kids rather then having them exposed that that type of behaviour, thankfully it tends to be not every weekend.

You stated it only happens on rare occasions, it's very rare we get any sort of decent weather in this country, they're enjoying the sun in their own garden with a few drinks, why is this type of behavior so unacceptable?

Thaedydal wrote: »

We don't have the resources to deal with it, no way the garda are going to call up and talk to them, they have better things to be doing.

Garda? to prevent people having a few drinks on their own property on the rare occasion we get a bit of decent weather?

Thaedydal wrote: »

I don't think that it is as those of us who have standards and dont' carry on in that manner find it harder to parent our children and combat the bad example being set for them by others in the 'community' as it were.

Why is a familiy in their own garden enjoying the weather setting a bad example for your kids?

Are trying to teach our kids not to enjoy themselves? that they can't enjoy sun music and a drink on a summers day? I'm sorry but this does sound to me like some form of inferiority complex.

Yes it's a community and your neighbors are part of it, and these particular neighbor likes to enjoy the good weather with a few drinks and some music, is it not part of living in a community that there's some give and take?

What's happening in this country that we look down on people who are doing nothing but enjoying themselves on a summers day?

why have become so intolerant and turning our nose up and everyone that doesn't fall into our own ideas of how people should be living their lives.

Nevyn

Go back and read the first post in the thread and try and put my posts in that sort of a context rather then trying to paint me as a priss and a prude.

Sitting out having a few drinks and listening to music is one thing, shouting, roaring abuse at passers by and the local kids, smashing glass bottles on the pavement and turning the neighbourhood in the early afternoon into templebar at 3am on a Saturday is a lot different and anti socail behaviour at least if it was in thier back yards that would be something but nope they wouldn't have the fun of heckling passers by then.

ntlbell

Thaedydal wrote: »

Go back and read the first post in the thread and try and put my posts in that sort of a context rather then trying to paint me as a priss and a prude.

Sitting out having a few drinks and listening to music is one thing, shouting, roaring abuse at passers by and the local kids, smashing glass bottles on the pavement and turning the neighbourhood in the early afternoon into templebar at 3am on a Saturday is a lot different and anti socail behaviour at least if it was in thier back yards that would be something but nope they wouldn't have the fun of heckling passers by then.

I looked back on it, I'm not seeing how a mother calling johhny a ballix related to your go at your neighbors for having a drink and listening to the latest dance "tunes" in the garden.

I mean look at the things you have said in this thread, referring to the way they speak as "scumbags" because they might have a Dublin twang?

then you say it has nothing to do with an inferiority complex. You said they call your kids freaks etc, this tends to happen to "outsiders" in a "neighborhood" and outsiders tend to choose to be on the outside as they feel they're above everyone else, this will only fuel the alienation your own kids are experiencing at the moment.

Nevyn

Outsiders, we have been living here 10 years they moved in 3 years ago.

It is not having "a drink" it's more like 3 boxes of miller in the garden and thier mates in the garden and as for how they speak I grew up in finglas so it's not an issue with accent it's the foul language and abuse roared at passers by, your just being contrary at this stage so I am not responding to any more of your posts to me on this topic.

ntlbell

Thaedydal wrote: »

Outsiders, we have been living here 10 years they moved in 3 years ago.

It has nothing to do with the length of time, it's about the effort made to integrate. People can live somewhere there whole lives and can be considered outsiders.

BostonB

ntlbell wrote: »

It has nothing to do with the length of time, it's about the effort made to integrate. People can live somewhere there whole lives and can be considered outsiders.

Blasting out music isn't going to help with that is it.

Khannie

Let's be fair here; parents standing by while their children call other children freaks = asshats. I don't think anyone has any objection to having a few drinks in your own garden. Ruining a day for others with nasty language, bad behaviour and loud music....well....I'm glad they're not my neighbours. Aren't you?

ntlbell

BostonB wrote: »

Blasting out music isn't going to help with that is it.

Blasting out music day and night is going to annoy everyone, correct.

Having some music play into your garden on a nice summers day on the odd occasion we have a nice day, non issue IMO.