Would like parents opinions on this.

ntlbell

Khannie wrote: »

Let's be fair here; parents standing by while their children call other children freaks = asshats. I don't think anyone has any objection to having a few drinks in your own garden. Ruining a day for others with nasty language, bad behaviour and loud music....well....I'm glad they're not my neighbours. Aren't you?

I don't think they're calling the kids freaks because they're having a drink in the garden. kids will be kids.

I would wager this glass throwing etc is not something that happens a lot from the earlier posts, it seems their choice of music, noise level and how many drinks seems to be the real problem.

"three trays of miller" "AND FRIENDS!!" :eek:

It doesn't sound like the bronx.

Khannie

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't think they're calling the kids freaks because they're having a drink in the garden. kids will be kids.

My problem is that the parents laugh about it instead of correcting it. Arguing that "kids will be kids" is nonsense. Of course kids will be kids, but parents should be parents when they are.

ntlbell wrote: »

I would wager this glass throwing etc is not something that happens a lot from the earlier posts

Ah sure that's alright then. A bit of glass throwing every once in a while....no problem.

ntlbell wrote: »

, it seems their choice of music, noise level and how many drinks seems to be the real problem.

"three trays of miller" "AND FRIENDS!!" :eek:

It doesn't sound like the bronx.

So here's what we have:
1) Kids call her children freaks, parents laugh about this.
2) Music blaring.
3) Heavy drinking session in the front garden.
4) Smashing bottles on the pavement.
5) Harassing passers by.

Like I said....I'm glad they're not my neighbours. Aren't you?

ntlbell

Khannie wrote: »

My problem is that the parents laugh about it instead of correcting it. Arguing that "kids will be kids" is nonsense. Of course kids will be kids, but parents should be parents when they are.

You can tell a kid up to a point till your blue in the face, kids take the piddle out of other kids, it's part of been a kid. I would imagine the reason these kids are taken the piddle is because the kids are kept away from most kids on the street, their parents look down on these people and call them scumbags, so the kids pick up on it and probably look down on them and walk around with airs and graces about them. I would be more concerned about a parent alienating their kids in their area, instead of a parent laughing, maybe the kids comments were very funny?

Khannie wrote: »

Ah sure that's alright then. A bit of glass throwing every once in a while....no problem.

These things happen, I can't recall an area I lived in where the odd party didn't get a bit out of order.

Khannie wrote: »

So here's what we have:
1) Kids call her children freaks, parents laugh about this.
2) Music blaring.
3) Heavy drinking session in the front garden.
4) Smashing bottles on the pavement.
5) Harassing passers by.

Like I said....I'm glad they're not my neighbours. Aren't you?

I don't see anything wrong with music blaring, It's not something I do personally, but I wouldn't have an issue with a neighbour doing it the odd nice day we have, I would actually grab a bottle and go over for a chat, you know, be neighborly

again, drinking sessions on your own private property not a problem.

Smashing off the bottle i have issue with, but your making it out this happens everytime they have a drink, have you never been at a party that got a bit out of hand?

and the story of all this bottle smashing arised when i questioned the lady of death, her main issue was drink/music/noise

what all of it has to do with a woman calling her own child a ballix i dont know

metrovelvet

She doesn't want her kids around drunken potty mouths who turn a sunnyday garden picnic into an outward performance of aggression and lowlifedom.

Pretty understandable.

What has it got to do with parents calling their children names? It has to do with how you negotiate with a community that you don't fit in with and you don't want to be a part of and you dont want your children thinking this is standard and acceptable.

mariaf24

I think thats what you sign up for when you rent/buy in a housing estate to be honest. You are taking a risk and have no control over who your neighbours are / what they do.

ntlbell

metrovelvet wrote: »

She doesn't want her kids around drunken potty mouths who turn a sunnyday garden picnic into an outward performance of aggression and lowlifedom.

Pretty understandable.

What has it got to do with parents calling their children names? It has to do with how you negotiate with a community that you don't fit in with and you don't want to be a part of and you dont want your children thinking this is standard and acceptable.

Would it not be more beneficial for the child to understand that not everyone is the same? that people live their lives differently? and show them how to integrate with different people and get on with different people? instead of judging people on how they talk and what clothes they wear?

to teach them tolerance of other people's way of life?

you think blind folding them and hiding them away from the realities of life will stand them good stead in the future?

interesting

metrovelvet

ntlbell wrote: »

Would it not be more beneficial for the child to understand that not everyone is the same? that people live their lives differently? and show them how to integrate with different people and get on with different people? instead of judging people on how they talk and what clothes they wear?

to teach them tolerance of other people's way of life?

you think blind folding them and hiding them away from the realities of life will stand them good stead in the future?

interesting

No, unless you want your child to grow up to be an uneducated animal.

Ickle Magoo

ntlbell wrote: »

you think blind folding them and hiding them away from the realities of life will stand them good stead in the future?

Presumably you have no issue with your kids surfing for p.orn or watching violent movies? As they are realities of life?

The vast majority of kids are sheltered from various aspects of life for a whole plethora of reasons; because kids ape, because they get scared, because you don't trust the people involved, because you don't want to normalise certain behaviours.

I don't think not wanting your kids to interact with the local gurriers is doing them any great disservice, probably just the opposite.

ntlbell

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Presumably you have no issue with your kids surfing for p.orn or watching violent movies? As they are realities of life?

The vast majority of kids are sheltered from various aspects of life for a whole plethora of reasons; because kids ape, because they get scared, because you don't trust the people involved, because you don't want to normalise certain behaviours.

I don't think not wanting your kids to interact with the local gurriers is doing them any great disservice, probably just the opposite.

I would discuss porn with them absoloutley. Can I prevent them from watching it? no, education is the key.

Liking people having a drink in their own front gardens and porn.

nice one.

:rolleyes:

Ickle Magoo

ntlbell wrote: »

I would discuss porn with them absoloutley. Can I prevent them from watching it? no, education is the key.

Liking people having a drink in their own front gardens and porn.

nice one.

:rolleyes:

I presume the kids being shielded from drunken louts shouting expletives are fairly young...too young for the above.

I wasn't likening people getting pi$$ed and shouting obscenities and porn :rolleyes:, just highlighting how ridiculous the idea that sheltering kids from some aspects of reality is somehow doing them a disservice. One of parents main functions is to shield young kids from some of the more unsavoury sides of life.

ntlbell

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I presume the kids being shielded from drunken louts shouting expletives are fairly young...too young for the above.

I wasn't likening people getting pi$$ed and shouting obscenities and porn :rolleyes:, just highlighting how ridiculous the idea that sheltering kids from some aspects of reality is somehow doing them a disservice. One of parents main functions is to shield young kids from some of the more unsavoury sides of life.

Like can you not see the scene your setting here.

a group of people lining up at thier front gate screaming and roaring abuse at every passer by? this is obsured and it's been ramped up to them now just some dumb animals in the garden.

the main issue from the first post was loud "dance" music, and drinking in the garden.

thaed was coming across like a bit of a stick in the mud and it was ramped up to smashing of bottles etc etc etc

I have heard it many times in different areas, nearly every area has the local busy boddy who moans about people having a drink in the garden taken the "look" of the estate or moaning because some local mechanic has an exhaust on his lawn OMG

I would be willing to put a large wager that it's nothing more than lads in a garden having a drink, and yes probably get a bit loud and yes probably play a bit of music.

and on an occasion one of them shouted something down the road that was of slightly bad taste to one of their mates and now their being protrayed as the neighbours from hell

like the people in question have a drink in the garden on a RARE occassion, there' not throwing rave parties selling heroin to the local kids with the guarda on the door every 5 minutes

a bit of perspective pls.

queue stories of the dad knocking out brown.

Ickle Magoo

The scene I'm setting? Likewise. I'm not sure why but you seem to be exceptionally sensitive to the perception of front garden pi$$heads...? A bit of perspective is understanding that drunken adults f'ing and blinding is not something most parents want or should have to have their young kids exposed to.

I don't think people bawling swearwords or getting pi$$ed in view of the whole street in the middle of the day is akin to an exhaust in the back garden nor wanting to shield your kids from it as akin to the local busy body. People who haven't the social skills, maturity or intelligence to even notice they are the only ones who behave like that, rare or no, tend to have a high turnover of neighbours, ime...

ntlbell

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

The scene I'm setting? Likewise. I'm not sure why but you seem to be exceptionally sensitive to the perception of front garden pi$$heads...? A bit of perspective is understanding that drunken adults f'ing and blinding is not something most parents want or should have to have their young kids exposed to.

I don't think people bawling swearwords or getting pi$$ed in view of the whole street in the middle of the day is akin to an exhaust in the back garden nor wanting to shield your kids from it as akin to the local busy body. People who haven't the social skills, maturity or intelligence to even notice they are the only ones who behave like that, rare or no, tend to have a high turnover of neighbours, ime...

Uhm because I spend my weekends shouting drunkingly at my neighbors obviously :rolleyes:

Im not saying it's similar to an exhaust in a garden, but it's the type of thing these people moan about.

We're not going to agree on this, none of us even know the familiy been discussed it's probably somewhere in the middle.

Ickle Magoo

I don't understand? These people moan about? The OP was moaning about neighbours getting drunk and shouting and swearing, Thead was also talking about people getting plastered and shouting...

If the OP was moaning about exhausts or something stupid then I'd be in complete agreement with you - being drunk and swearing loudly in full view/hearing of everyone else who has to share the street with them is just rude and tacky...

ntlbell

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I don't understand? These people moan about? The OP was moaning about neighbours getting drunk and shouting and swearing, Thead was also talking about people getting plastered and shouting...

If the OP was moaning about exhausts or something stupid then I'd be in complete agreement with you - being drunk and swearing loudly in full view/hearing of everyone else who has to share the street with them is just rude and tacky...

Yes, the people who moan about a few lads having a gargle ON THE RARE OCCASION in the front garden are the same type of folk who whine about a car part in someones garden taken the look off the street etc. That was painful.

Taken your kids away from the street because people are having a drink and listening to music in the garden ON A RARE OCCASSION. seems over the top to me.

Again, we don;t know the family we don't know what they're doing, I imagine, it's somewhere in-between

Ickle Magoo

A few lads having a gargle? Was the OP not about women...and their kids?

What are you basing the capitalised rare occasions on? You seem quite determined to paint people getting pi$$ed in their front garden and shouting expletives as being a normal past-time, for the vast majority of people it's not and if folks don't want their kids picking up the language or possibly getting involved with the kind of people who think getting pi$$ed in the front garden in the middle of the day and roaring swearwords is perfectly normal social behaviour, then I can certainly understand that.

Presumably the OP isn't sick of people behaving a certain way to the point she wants to move house based on her lovely neighbours making a public spectacle of themselves just the once or twice?

Miss Lockhart

This thread has really gone off on a tangent...

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

The OP was moaning about neighbours getting drunk and shouting and swearing,

Maybe Deliverance can clarify, but so far they have not actually mentioned anything about getting drunk as far as I can see.

Just to reiterate what Metrovelvet said - I really don't think being a "single mom" has anything to do with it.

My parents (married for decades) shouted abuse and called each other, and my siblings and me, names on a daily basis - and they still do. It's just the way they are - it is normal for them and they just don't see any real problem with it. They are, I have no doubt, aware that it is not considered "polite" or "pleasant", but I genuinely think they don't see any real harm in it. We are not from an area that is "rough around the edges" either.

I, on the other hand, am a fairly quiet and very polite person and I NEVER swear on front of people and am not inclined to call anybody names. I also don't feel exposure to this behaviour has caused me any long term damage - I don't even think about it. :pac:

Ickle Magoo

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Maybe Deliverance can clarify, but so far they have not actually mentioned anything about getting drunk as far as I can see.

You are quite right, that was in a later post.

ntlbell

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

A few lads having a gargle? Was the OP not about women...and their kids?

What are you basing the capitalised rare occasions on? You seem quite determined to paint people getting pi$$ed in their front garden and shouting expletives as being a normal past-time, for the vast majority of people it's not and if folks don't want their kids picking up the language or possibly getting involved with the kind of people who think getting pi$$ed in the front garden in the middle of the day and roaring swearwords is perfectly normal social behaviour, then I can certainly understand that.

Presumably the OP isn't sick of people behaving a certain way to the point she wants to move house based on her lovely neighbours making a public spectacle of themselves just the once or twice?

huh?

thaed is not the OP, who's post I was discussing

Something that happens on a rare occasion which thaed said sometimes happen if the weather is fine.

this is ireland, I assume you live here, I don't need to tell you what the weathers normally like.

So no having a drink in the front garden is not a day to day thing, I don't drink in my front garden, _ever_ but if someone wants to I don't have a problem with that, if they want to listen to must while doing, again, I don't see the issue.

Just to re-cap, this is in regards to thaeds post, NOT OP

metrovelvet

I think the real issue is bearing witness to women who openly and shamlessly denigrate their children.

The single mother bit side tracked it a bit but since we are on the subject, is there really such thing as a single mother? It always takes two. There is always an ex or absent father [although an absence which is always present - like a negative space in a painting] who is not there to tell them to "shut the bleep up and dont you talk to my child like that!"

So OP could have phrased it "There are some absent father's exs who are always screaming obscenities at their kids."

And then it just turned into a general discussion about unsavory riff raff.

Deliverance

I find it interesting to see the different views forming from the original post. First of all I would like to say that it is a parenting issue because it affects me as a seperated parent i.e. I have the oppurtunity to have my child for the summer holidays for 5 days a week.

I have chosen not to do this because I do not want my child hanging out and seeing this antisocial behaviour as the norm for her. That is my choice as a parent. I want better for my child. I do not want her to see swearing abusive 'adults' on a daily basis. I do see this type of behaviour as unproductive for my childs development. To any normal thinking parent it just is, how hard is that to understand for fecks sake.

ntbell I find your posts unexperienced in nature and as such argumentative. If you actually had to live next to people of the nature that I and others have described from real experience then I gaurantee you would feel the same.

ntbell I would argue as you have done in the same way previous to my real experience, so I can see your point, but you really have to live in an area and experience antisocial people to form a rounded opinion. I hope that you never have to experience these folks in all their antisocial glory. It really is an experience to behold.

I would suggest that you find a 'rough' area and bring your kids there if you have any, (do you have kids?) Let your kids off in this area on a daily basis if your so concerned about being PC and see how your kids get on.

A bit radical I know but I bet you would not do it. Or would you?

I live day to day dreading them and have to put up a hard face and push my daughter past them to attend events and places that are filled with people with a more productive perspective on life i.e. people that actually take their kids out and expose them to oppurtunites that exist over stagnating, swearing, idiots that hang out in doorways with ciggies in their downturned mouths whilst swearing profoundly at their kids.

Deliverance

metrovelvet wrote: »

I think the real issue is bearing witness to women who openly and shamlessly denigrate their children.

The single mother bit side tracked it a bit but since we are on the subject, is there really such thing as a single mother? It always takes two. There is always an ex or absent father B]although an absence which is always present - like a negative space in a painting[/B who is not there to tell them to "shut the bleep up and dont you talk to my child like that!"

So OP could have phrased it "There are some absent father's exs who are always screaming obscenities at their kids."

And then it just turned into a general discussion about unsavory riff raff.

That is exactly what it is metro. As a child of an absent parent myself i.e. my dad, that is what I always felt. You just threw me right off there because that is exactly what it feels like for me as a child of an absent father. I always described / felt the absence of my dad as an empty space. It is an interesting development in this discussion.

These single moms and indeed people that had lives that they did not expect are in a way victims of irresponsible parents

metrovelvet

We have to imagine that too when we witness what you descibe. I cant look at single mothers in isolation - they are attached to ghosts, to inventions and dead starts, there is someone else out there- the other parent not doing their job. So no such thing as a single mother.

Khannie

Ntlbell....you're crossing the line with your baiting of thaed. It's late and I'm on my phone so I'm not gonna go into it further for now. Fairly disappointed though tbh.

BostonB

Having a few beers playing a bit of music can range from being normal social, to extremely antisocial. Seems obvious that we're talking about the extreme end of the spectrum. I don't see how anyone can comment on bad it is, or isn't, as they aren't there.

Under Irish law, you are entitled to bring complaints about specific neighbourhood noise to the District Court.

This threads needs to NOT be about single parents. It just confuses the issue, and its not relevent. You should start a different thread about single parent, parenting. Two different topics.

How Strange

ntlbell, I think you're being deliberately argumentative for the sake of it.

You've jumped on something in this thread and have decided to stick to it even if you're taking it right out of context of what was being discussed.

I know exactly what Thaedydal means, I see it where I live in good weather. This isn't just people sitting in their gardens enjoying a few drinks with friends. This is full on drinking to get p1ssed, being loud and aggressive and intimidating people as they walk past.

I've nothing against anyone having a few drinks in their gardens, playing music, getting drunk, having friends around but when you can't even walk past them for fear of getting a bottle thrown at you 'as a joke' then it becomes completely antisocial.

eviltwin

I live beside a single parent of 5 kids and this kind of thing is the norm. She's always yelling at them for something and usually uses very abusive language. Now I can turn the air blue myself from time to time and my daughter who is 13 has heard me use swear words often enough but they have never been aimed at her personally.

I find this kind of thing sickening. I know this woman is probably stressed out looking after so many kids on her own but there is no excuse. Sadly though I have no choice, I can't really do anything about it and my daughter has heard her in full rant quite a bit now she's on school holidays.

All I can do as a parent is show her that decent people DON'T act that way. I use it as an example of how not to act. Thats all I can do and hopefully she will follow my lead.

Deliverence I understand your frustration but I wouldn't sacrifice quality time with my child just because of this if you can avoid it. It would be a shame to do so just because of the way some people choose to act.

metrovelvet

I agree with evil twin.

Dont sacrifice time with your daughter because of them. We have such little time as it is, don't we?

Deliverance

Thanks evilTwin. That is an option that I had not considered I will use that to explain things to my little one as such. I suppose though one of the main problems I have is the fact that my little one is nearly 5 and the times when she is with me at weekends at the moment she looks out the window at the kids playing on the street.

It won't be long before she will say 'Dad can I go out and play' etc. It would not be long before she became integrated with them and I don't want that due to the dominant nature of some of the kids and their abusive parents. I do not want her directly exposed to the type of behaviour described in previous posts. I don not want her to see this as the norm in society. That is my choice.

My own mom did this for me and my siblings (9 of us). At the time I resented her for it but it stood me well as I grew up relatively decent as did all my brothers and sisters. We are a highly respected family as a result.

I think in my own way that 'these people' are unfortunate, I still do not get them and I feel sorry for their kids and all that but still I choose to keep my child away from them for her own betterment.

eviltwin

Thats the hard part alright Deliverence. Thankfully my daughter is 13 and has enough savvy to know that you don't speak like that so its not too much of a concern in that respect. Still awful to have to listen to though, I'd be embarrassed to have people around with the carry on from next door.

But I would be wary of tarring the kids with the same brush as the parents. Next doors son is 13 and is one of the politest kids I have ever met in my life. He hangs out with my daughter and I have no problem with it. Sometimes the apple does fall far from the tree.