Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

D.L.R.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Let's face it, if Dublin had an Underground it would soon end up like the Liffey Boardwalk or the Red Luas line.

Dublin isn't the only city with scumbags ffs...

Judgement Day

D.L.R. wrote: »

Dublin isn't the only city with scumbags ffs...

No but it's one of the cities that refuses to operate a zero tolerance policy against them. Handwringing, telephoning the Joe Duffy Show but do anything about it - hell no.

D.L.R.

Judgement Day wrote: »

No but it's one of the cities that refuses to operate a zero tolerance policy against them. Handwringing, telephoning the Joe Duffy Show but do anything about it - hell no.

Hmm.. perhaps. Don't think we should be using scum as an excuse not to build though, country will just stagnate with that philosophy.

DWCommuter

BXD......????

With MN and DU given the oul expected heave ho into no mans land, I've noted that BXD has become the hot topic. This just really highlights how fcuking desperate we are. BXD is supposedly scheduled to begin construction in 2015. This is a blatant and cynical example of including a rail based project in the fantasy capital expenditure program that will never see conclusion.

Following on from my accurate predictions that both DU and MN would not happen, I will go even further and predict that BXD will not happen in its entirety or at all. We may get a "link up" of the lines (at best) but I'll eat my own vomit if it goes all the way to Broombridge. The anti social area around Liffey Junction is dependent on a positive property market, which is very unlikely for many years beyond 2015. What pisses me off most is the fact that this land was ignored in the freaky boom days, when it could have made a massive difference.

CIE couldn't even develop their landbanks successfully in the freaky boom times and that sums them up nicely. (Even the great Spencer Dock is struggling)

Lets not forget Navan. Another project that sent people bonkers, ended marriages, ruined careers and tarnished the best of Internet warriors. More bull****. (even though I now agree it should never happen.) Governments may change. Economic realities may change, but the political set up doesn't change. It will be and always will be crap talk after crap talk when it comes to rail based transport. We are still thinking circa 1960.

robd

DWCommuter wrote: »

This just really highlights how fcuking desperate we are. BXD is supposedly scheduled to begin construction in 2015. This is a blatant and cynical example of including a rail based project in the fantasy capital expenditure program that will never see conclusion.

Yep and yep.

Nothing to see here, move along now !!!

paulm17781

DWCommuter wrote: »

even though I now agree it should never happen

Out of curiosity. Why?

I only ask because last time we discussed it we were both for it? What's changed your mind?

DWCommuter

Paul.

Let me divest my years of appreciation for both Government bull**** and my own absolute naivety.

I got caught up in the link Dublin to every rail line possible mentality. It was as a result of the Celtic Tiger madness that pervaded. Ultimately it was never going to be sustainable and just like the WRC that I pitted it against in the media and online. Realistically Navan does not deserve to be a suburb of Dublin and does not deserve a dedicated rail line. It grew due to very poor planning and then eventually got a motorway. It is not wrong to say that the motorway killed off any hope of a railway and this was always the plan.

LeinsterDub

Judgement Day wrote: »

Let's face it, if Dublin had an Underground it would soon end up like the Liffey Boardwalk or the Red Luas line.

I know just like how all those Dublin Bikes ended up in the liffey and being stolen. :rolleyes:

Judgement Day

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I know just like how all those Dublin Bikes ended up in the liffey and being stolen. :rolleyes:

No, like the Red Luas line and the Liffey Boardwalk - should go to Specsavers.

AngryLips

It would seem that BXD will serve the new development in Grangegorman after all:

Grangegorman project to go ahead - Agency

BrianD

There's some work going on on Burgh Quay directly opposite Marlborough St. Large section of pavement fenced off and one of those test drill rigs on site. Is this exploratory work for the transport bridge or unrelated?

monument

BrianD wrote: »

There's some work going on on Burgh Quay directly opposite Marlborough St. Large section of pavement fenced off and one of those test drill rigs on site. Is this exploratory work for the transport bridge or unrelated?

Construction of the bridge. The bridge is for more than just for Luas so it's a go even if Luas BXD won't be for years.

zootroid

Judgement Day wrote: »

Let's face it, if Dublin had an Underground it would soon end up like the Liffey Boardwalk or the Red Luas line.

I don't think it would, unlike the luas which have no entry barriers, underground systems generally do. You don't see any problems inside the barriers at say Pearse station, do you?

strassenwo!f

monument wrote: »

Construction of the bridge. The bridge is for more than just for Luas so it's a go even if Luas BXD won't be for years.

Is there any indication of how this fits into some overall plan?

They build the bridge and allow road traffic to use it, then after a few years the Luas is built and road traffic across the bridge is restricted, to be replaced by...what, exactly?

Is there a plan?

The Maverick

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Is there any indication of how this fits into some overall plan?

They build the bridge and allow road traffic to use it, then after a few years the Luas is built and road traffic across the bridge is restricted, to be replaced by...what, exactly?

Is there a plan?

I believe it's going to be exclusively for public transport use with space left for when (if?) the BXD line is bulit.

monument

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Is there any indication of how this fits into some overall plan?

They build the bridge and allow road traffic to use it, then after a few years the Luas is built and road traffic across the bridge is restricted, to be replaced by...what, exactly?

Is there a plan?

The Maverick wrote: »

I believe it's going to be exclusively for public transport use with space left for when (if?) the BXD line is bulit.

As The Maverick says, it will be public transport only. Even before Luas, it would not much sense to try to allow normal traffic in the mix too.

There's a thread here on the design of the bridge with an image of the road layout: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056384039

Wild Bill

Neworder79 wrote: »

TRANSPORT MUSEUM! Thought that was Connelly...What the hell would we put in it, all the blueprints for 50 years of unbuilt schemes, and a library of transport reports, committee and consultant pay slips stabled on the end?

This quote dates back a bit but it is the best one I've read on the thread!

Wild Bill

If I may summarize my views:

All the rail projects (MN, MW, DU and BXD) were justified in their own right and should have been/should be built when we had/have the money.

In order of priority:

(1) DU
(2) MN
(3) BXD
(4) MW

However given that the Kenny/Gilmore regime have cancelled all bar (maybe) BXD I am totally in favour of proceeding with this asap.

And I regard any carping about it as

(a) playing straight into the hands of Kenny/Gilmore who probably don't intend to build it anyway
(b) symptomatic of the anal gazing that led to us passing the Tiger years with just one and a half Luas lines and little else.

If you are not screaming for BXD to go to construction in 2012, frankly, imho you are part of the problem when it comes to the Irish pathos regarding infrastructure. :cool:

DWCommuter

Wild Bill wrote: »

If I may summarize my views:

All the rail projects (MN, MW, DU and BXD) were justified in their own right and should have been/should be built when we had/have the money.

In order of priority:

(1) DU
(2) MN
(3) BXD
(4) MW

However given that the Kenny/Gilmore regime have cancelled all bar (maybe) BXD I am totally in favour of proceeding with this asap.

And I regard any carping about it as

(a) playing straight into the hands of Kenny/Gilmore who probably don't intend to build it anyway
(b) symptomatic of the anal gazing that led to us passing the Tiger years with just one and a half Luas lines and little else.

If you are not screaming for BXD to go to construction in 2012, frankly, imho you are part of the problem when it comes to the Irish pathos regarding infrastructure. :cool:

I would have to concur with the content of the above post, but retain the right to "carp" about BXD on the basis that it won't actually happen.

Does that exonerate me from being "part of the problem"?

Wild Bill

DWCommuter wrote: »

I would have to concur with the content of the above post, but retain the right to "carp" about BXD on the basis that it won't actually happen.

Does that exonerate me from being "part of the problem"?

The jury is out on that. :cool:

DWCommuter

Wild Bill wrote: »

The jury is out on that. :cool:

Lets hope your jury is quick with a decision. I hate waiting.;)

Zebra3

There's a letter in today's Times about BXD and the Easter Rising centenary and the state of O'Connell St if construction on the line starts in 2015.

Sounds like a readymade excuse for a future government to delay it.

"Ah, we can't have O'Connell St dug for 2016."

BrianD

Zebra3 wrote: »

There's a letter in today's Times about BXD and the Easter Rising centenary and the state of O'Connell St if construction on the line starts in 2015.

Sounds like a readymade excuse for a future government to delay it.

"Ah, we can't have O'Connell St dug for 2016."

They can easily express the O'Connell st part if they wanted to.

Zebra3

BrianD wrote: »

They can easily express the O'Connell st part if they wanted to.

And would 99% of the electorate be aware of that?

trellheim

If you are not screaming for BXD to go to construction in 2012, frankly, imho you are part of the problem when it comes to the Irish pathos regarding infrastructure

Really ? So you're a paid up member of the "Be Seen to Be Doing Something, Anything so long as someone is digging a trench ? " brigade.

BXD is a pile of steaming massive poo that will leave a stench in the commuters and shoppers nostrils for 10 years.

Better to spend the cash on cycle lanes or properly re-doing St. Stephen's Green/Leeson St traffic flows rather than the long wait for DU and MN. BXD is already massively over-duplicated by Bus routes.

Yours - happily part of the "problem" as you put it.

BrianD

trellheim wrote: »

Really ? So you're a paid up member of the "Be Seen to Be Doing Something, Anything so long as someone is digging a trench ? " brigade.

BXD is a pile of steaming massive poo that will leave a stench in the commuters and shoppers nostrils for 10 years.

Better to spend the cash on cycle lanes or properly re-doing St. Stephen's Green/Leeson St traffic flows rather than the long wait for DU and MN. BXD is already massively over-duplicated by Bus routes.

Yours - happily part of the "problem" as you put it.

I wouldn't agree. It's a pricey solution but it will immediately extend the utility of the Green Line. It will also be good for transit within the city centre for shoppers and people going about their business.

Not sure what your reference to Stephens Green/leeson st flows. What's the issue there?

BrianD

Zebra3 wrote: »

And would 99% of the electorate be aware of that?

I presume that somebody needs to come out and say it.

I see no reason why O'Connell st can not start immediately the word go is given. The big work is the relocation of services. If it's "all hands" on that section it can be done and completes by 2016. Overhead cabling can go in after the event if needs be.

brownbeard

The advantage of having the two lines linked will obviously increase the daily ridership, but does anyone have a figure for how much? Current daily ridership stands at ~80,000 (luas.ie)

Victor

brownbeard wrote: »

The advantage of having the two lines linked will obviously increase the daily ridership, but does anyone have a figure for how much? Current daily ridership stands at ~80,000 (luas.ie)

About an extra 10m per year, although some of that will come from bus users.

BrianD

brownbeard wrote: »

The advantage of having the two lines linked will obviously increase the daily ridership, but does anyone have a figure for how much? Current daily ridership stands at ~80,000 (luas.ie)

The problem is that there is no evidence to suggest that people of one line want to use the other.

I suspect that there will be increase in ridership but it won't be as a result of the two lines meeting. It will be as a result of the fact that the green line will gives people greater access to both sides of the city centre (main shopping districts and bus stops) making it more convenient and will probably take more from bus routes such as 61, 44 and 11.