Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

dixiefly

mrsdewinter wrote: »

There's currently building work on a site that appears to 'straddle' the current Dublin-Sligo railway line, which I assume will become a footbridge. It won't be ready by December 9, though.

Thanks,

Hopefully sooner rather than later. Also hopefully the luas will link timing wise to the M3 trains coming in and leave when any transfer passengers get on. It wont encourage people to use the luas if they are waiting another 10 minutes to get it.

MJohnston

dixiefly wrote: »

Thanks,

Hopefully sooner rather than later. Also hopefully the luas will link timing wise to the M3 trains coming in and leave when any transfer passengers get on. It wont encourage people to use the luas if they are waiting another 10 minutes to get it.

It'd be almost impossible to sync incoming Luas' with the trains passing Broombridge, outgoing maybe but I don't think they'll even bother with that. The key is just making the Luas service high-frequency enough that there's always one there waiting for you if you do get off a train.

dixiefly

MJohnston wrote: »

It'd be almost impossible to sync incoming Luas' with the trains passing Broombridge, outgoing maybe but I don't think they'll even bother with that. The key is just making the Luas service high-frequency enough that there's always one there waiting for you if you do get off a train.

Yes, they would need to be pretty frequent to get a good transfer.

My point is that if a Luas is ready to go from Broombridge and a train from M3 is pulling in or say a minute away then the Luas has the scope to wait for the transfers and not have the train passengers waiting say another 10 minutes for the next Luas to go.

It might seem a small issue but the trains etc are so slow that any extra time lost in transfers pushes commuters back into cars even though the journeys are not nice. There is only so much time you can give over to the commute when you add the time for a days work on top of that.

LXFlyer

As I already posted above I would not be banking on frequency on the northern extension beyond O’Connell Street being in any way high, certainly not until all of the new trams are delivered and commissioned next Spring.

Trams and trains are unlikely to be waiting for one another as both have schedules to maintain.

Sam Russell

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

They've now confirmed services will begin on Saturday 9th December.

Luas Cross City to operate from December 9

Would it not be better if it started on the 7th December (given that there will be a rail strike on the 8th)?

LeinsterDub

Sam Russell wrote: »

Would it not be better if it started on the 7th December (given that there will be a rail strike on the 8th)?

9th was always the aim. Better to start on a weekend with lower demand incase it highlights any last minute minor issues

MJohnston

LeinsterDub wrote: »

9th was always the aim. Better to start on a weekend with lower demand incase it highlights any last minute minor issues

Always the aim?

LeinsterDub

MJohnston wrote: »

Always the aim?

I've had the 9th in mind as the launch date for ages

Sierra Oscar

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I've had the 9th in mind as the launch date for ages

9th had been mooted by spokespeople for a good while but Transport Infrastructure Ireland gave a date of December 15th in September. Probably just giving themselves a bit of leeway in case of any hiccups.

veryangryman

Im just looking at the times of journeys (e.g Heuston-Saggart).

Even point to point (and not counting the extra km or so to wherever you may be going), it is much much quicker to drive to your destination, even in traffic. Surely this is a brutal flaw in the system; why is it not discussed more

MJohnston

veryangryman wrote: »

Im just looking at the times of journeys (e.g Heuston-Saggart).

Even point to point (and not counting the extra km or so to wherever you may be going), it is much much quicker to drive to your destination, even in traffic. Surely this is a brutal flaw in the system; why is it not discussed more

Because at the times when most commuters are travelling, i.e. rush hour, it is usually not quicker to drive to your destination.

Taking Heuston to Saggart as your example and departing at 5pm on an average weekday, Google Maps estimates a potential maximum time for that journey by car as 55 minutes (with a potential minimum of 24 minutes, probably based on public holiday or school holiday traffic data), while it estimates 37 minutes by tram.

And the tram will pretty much always take 37 minutes or so for that journey, it's consistent, predictable, and reliable. Car traffic will vary wildly from day to day and minute to minute, so you could get to Saggart much quicker than that 55 minutes, but rainy days it'll probably take even longer.

And if you're not starting your journey from somewhere as far outside the city as Heuston, say the Docklands, then you're introducing even more traffic variables into your car commute, while the Luas will still have a consistent and predictable journey time.

Then there are lots of other human factors - sitting in a car in traffic is annoying and frustrating, sitting on a Luas you can read your phone or a book or even get up and stretch your legs a bit.

Chivito550

MJohnston wrote: »

Because at the times when most commuters are travelling, i.e. rush hour, it is usually not quicker to drive to your destination.

Taking Heuston to Saggart as your example and departing at 5pm on an average weekday, Google Maps estimates a potential maximum time for that journey by car as 55 minutes (with a potential minimum of 24 minutes, probably based on public holiday or school holiday traffic data), while it estimates 37 minutes by tram.

And the tram will pretty much always take 37 minutes or so for that journey, it's consistent, predictable, and reliable. Car traffic will vary wildly from day to day and minute to minute, so you could get to Saggart much quicker than that 55 minutes, but rainy days it'll probably take even longer.

And if you're not starting your journey from somewhere as far outside the city as Heuston, say the Docklands, then you're introducing even more traffic variables into your car commute, while the Luas will still have a consistent and predictable journey time.

Then there are lots of other human factors - sitting in a car in traffic is annoying and frustrating, sitting on a Luas you can read your phone or a book or even get up and stretch your legs a bit.

Not to mention not having to waste time finding a place to park the car, being able to go to the pub and then tram it home, walking from the stop to your destination is good for your health etc

orangerhyme

MJohnston wrote: »

Because at the times when most commuters are travelling, i.e. rush hour, it is usually not quicker to drive to your destination.

Taking Heuston to Saggart as your example and departing at 5pm on an average weekday, Google Maps estimates a potential maximum time for that journey by car as 55 minutes (with a potential minimum of 24 minutes, probably based on public holiday or school holiday traffic data), while it estimates 37 minutes by tram.

And the tram will pretty much always take 37 minutes or so for that journey, it's consistent, predictable, and reliable. Car traffic will vary wildly from day to day and minute to minute, so you could get to Saggart much quicker than that 55 minutes, but rainy days it'll probably take even longer.

And if you're not starting your journey from somewhere as far outside the city as Heuston, say the Docklands, then you're introducing even more traffic variables into your car commute, while the Luas will still have a consistent and predictable journey time.

Then there are lots of other human factors - sitting in a car in traffic is annoying and frustrating, sitting on a Luas you can read your phone or a book or even get up and stretch your legs a bit.

Lots of people in Tallaght get the bus instead of the Luas cos it's faster.
Obviously it's still public transport and uses bus lanes so I'm not disagreeing with you.

I'm a big fan of public transport, don't think we invest enough in it.
I'm not sure are all the motorways really necessary.
I'd like to see the Luas xcity extended to Finglas and Blanchardstown. Doubt it would be that expensive.

Chivito550

orangerhyme wrote: »

Lots of people in Tallaght get the bus instead of the Luas cos it's faster.
Obviously it's still public transport and uses bus lanes so I'm not disagreeing with you.

I'm a big fan of public transport, don't think we invest enough in it.
I'm not sure are all the motorways really necessary.
I'd like to see the Luas xcity extended to Finglas and Blanchardstown. Doubt it would be that expensive.

Depends where in Tallaght you are. It’s a fairly massive place.

But the LUAS is more reliable, frequent and has higher capacity than the bus. Speed isn’t everything.

salmocab

I have to drive to a bus stop about 5 mins away as my local bus is a mess, but often I will drive 15 mins to a green line stop as the luas is a far better system its quick, easier and at rush hour very frequent. Admittedly the green line has much less interaction with traffic so is even more reliable timewise than the green.

Jamie2k9

They tested a 3 min service this morning and I believe it went well. It was a Saturday so lighter traffic volume but maybe it might be possible with efficent light changes.

CatInABox

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They tested a 3 min service this morning and I believe it went well. It was a Saturday so lighter traffic volume but maybe it might be possible with efficent light changes.

I'm a firm believer in sacrificing the needs of the car user to cater more for public transport, so I hope they go ahead with this.

dixiefly

Does anybody know of any parking at a reasonable price along the new extension?

LXFlyer

The frequency through the city centre on the extended Green Line should remain the same as existing service levels as far as O’Connell St (although it’s possible some peak extras might terminate at St Stephen’s Green).

The service level between O’Connell Street and Broombridge may be below general expectations until all of the new trams are delivered in the Spring. Even then it will be a maximum of every second tram on weekdays.

The impact of a full frequency on general traffic flows is the great unknown - Saturday morning traffic is minute by comparison with weekdays.

MJohnston

dixiefly wrote: »

Does anybody know of any parking at a reasonable price along the new extension?

Most are residential areas without any parking restrictions up here in Cabra.

fxotoole

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They tested a 3 min service this morning and I believe it went well. It was a Saturday so lighter traffic volume but maybe it might be possible with efficent light changes.

Luas cross city, I presume? 3 mins from where to where?

donvito99

fxotoole wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They tested a 3 min service this morning and I believe it went well. It was a Saturday so lighter traffic volume but maybe it might be possible with efficent light changes.

Luas cross city, I presume? 3 mins from where to where?

3 min headway between trams.

Jamie2k9

fxotoole wrote: »

Luas cross city, I presume? 3 mins from where to where?

SSG to Parnell St

The service level between O’Connell Street and Broombridge may be below general expectations until all of the new trams are delivered in the Spring. Even then it will be a maximum of every second tram on weekdays.

The impact of a full frequency on general traffic flows is the great unknown - Saturday morning traffic is minute by comparison with weekdays.

While I fully agree, when I suggested traffic concerns my mate seem confident that 3 minutes can work and would be the plan from Monday December 12.

The Red Line between junction of Amiens Street and Gardner Street can very easily have 3 trams in a row at peak hours because of box blocking so I can't see it been smooth running around College Green.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

SSG to Parnell St



While I fully agree, when I suggested traffic concerns my mate seem confident that 3 minutes can work and would be the plan from Monday December 12.

The Red Line between junction of Amiens Street and Gardner Street can very easily have 3 trams in a row at peak hours because of box blocking so I can't see it been smooth running around College Green.

We will have to wait and see being honest - all the computer modelling in the world won’t account for human “misbehaviour” (such as yellow box blocking). The Green Line extension has far more interaction with general traffic and other public transport modes than the Red Line and how that will work at peak times is anyone’s guess.

Dyr

LXFlyer wrote: »

We will have to wait and see being honest - all the computer modelling in the world won’t account for human “misbehaviour” (such as yellow box blocking). The Green Line extension has far more interaction with general traffic and other public transport modes than the Red Line and how that will work at peak times is anyone’s guess.

Here's the funny thing, I pointed out to LUAS that their BXD trams were blocking multiple pedestrian crossings at once and their attitude was pretty much "we know, wait till the tram has moved off to cross"

Jamie2k9

Bambi wrote: »

Here's the funny thing, I pointed out to LUAS that their BXD trams were blocking multiple pedestrian crossings at once and their attitude was pretty much "we know, wait till the tram has moved off to cross"

To be fair when you pointed it training only started and the system was only handed over.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

To be fair when you pointed it training only started and the system was only handed over.

Quite so - there’s a bedding in period and people need to be patient.

LeinsterDub

Mr Ross will provide a memo to Cabinet outlining plans to extend 26 existing trams from 43 metres in length to 55 metres.

https://www.herald.ie/news/city-set-for-longer-luas-trams-in-bid-to-beat-congestion-36317382.html


Is this new news? Will all trams be 55 metres?

LXFlyer

It is new news, in that it he is proceeding to get cabinet approval, as currently only the new trams will be 55m long.

If this happens all of the Green Line trams will all be extended.

Dyr

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

To be fair when you pointed it training only started and the system was only handed over.

So it's okay to break the law while you're bedding something in? I saw a guy nearly get crushed against a barrier because of it

It's ongoing with a system that's going to be live very soon and given that this is Dublin I wouldnt be suprised if "sure f**k the pedestrians" is the permanent position.