Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

dixiefly

MJohnston wrote: »

Most are residential areas without any parking restrictions up here in Cabra.

Thanks, truth is I dont want to be parking outside someone's house if I can avoid it. But i'll check to see if there are good options.

optogirl

dixiefly wrote: »

Thanks, truth is I dont want to be parking outside someone's house if I can avoid it. But i'll check to see if there are good options.

Don't worry - I live in Cabra and NEVER get to park outside my own house cos someone else has claimed it :mad:

LXFlyer

Bambi wrote: »

So it's okay to break the law while you're bedding something in? I saw a guy nearly get crushed against a barrier because of it

It's ongoing with a system that's going to be live very soon and given that this is Dublin I wouldnt be suprised if "sure f**k the pedestrians" is the permanent position.

Are you saying that a tram was blocking a pedestrian crossing where pedestrians had a green light to cross, or was it blocking an unsignalled crossing?

The former shouldn’t happen as the tram and traffic signals are interlocked - where was this?

The latter could certainly happen.

dixiefly

The delays on the red line at o'Connell street will surely be exacerbated with the new extension unless there is a significant drop in cars / buses. At the minute there are already delays on almost every luas going from Abbey to Jervis crossing O'Connell street.

probably too late but underground for both trams in the area they are crossing and facilitating transfer would surely have been preferable, costly but preferable imho.

LXFlyer

dixiefly wrote: »

The delays on the red line at o'Connell street will surely be exacerbated with the new extension unless there is a significant drop in cars / buses. At the minute there are already delays on almost every luas going from Abbey to Jervis crossing O'Connell street.

probably too late but underground for both trams in the area they are crossing and facilitating transfer would surely have been preferable, costly but preferable imho.

The trams don’t have priority at that junction as it caused mayhem for the bus traffic on O’Connell St and back to Westmoreland St.

Most of the junctions that LUAS crosses in the heart of the city centre have set signal sequences that they go through - that’s the only way that this could possibly work given the introduction of the Green Line to the mix.

Idbatterim

could they not have left OCS alone and went down marlborugh both ways? simply tunnel under trinity and surface just north of the existing red line on marlborough st?

markpb

Idbatterim wrote: »

could they not have left OCS alone and went down marlborugh both ways? simply tunnel under trinity and surface just north of the existing red line on marlborough st?

One does not simply tunnel under buildings that are hundreds of years old. And one certainly does not dig a tunnel for a few hundred meters, the cost would be prohibitive. And even if you could, riding a tram that dropped deep enough to safely clear the basements under trinity, not to mention the Liffey and then rise on the other side would be more like a rollercoaster than a tram line!

wakka12

Idbatterim wrote: »

could they not have left OCS alone and went down marlborugh both ways? simply tunnel under trinity and surface just north of the existing red line on marlborough st?

That just seems unrealistic and too expensive for what itd be worth. And why wouldnt you place atleast one tram line on a huge wide street thats already there

Idbatterim

fair enough points. My proposal for doing that is because of how vital OCS and westmoreland street, college green are for the massive amount of buses that are the backbone of dublins transport system.

I wonder if you could the crayons out and go back in time, would building Metro north on the site of the hawkins and college house etc worked. have interchange with dart underground there. That would be the OCS south stop, simply link it with pedestrian tunnels under liffey.

Metro north could have connected the two lines. Run the line from broombridge into the red line instead or have it also use the Metro north tunnel.

Could my proposal or tweaking of them, saved significant sums on MN and DU?

Dyr

LXFlyer wrote: »

Are you saying that a tram was blocking a pedestrian crossing where pedestrians had a green light to cross, or was it blocking an unsignalled crossing?

The former shouldn’t happen as the tram and traffic signals are interlocked - where was this?

The latter could certainly happen.

It is doing both at the same time due to its length, on a junction where the only other way to get around it is to turn back and go around the block

And incidentally, the unsignalled crossing is space that was once open to pedestrians but is now reduced to a single pathway that gives you no option but the use the unsignalled junction. Classy stuff

LXFlyer

Bambi wrote: »

It is doing both at the same time due to its length, on a junction where the only other way to get around it is to turn back and go around the block

And incidentally, the unsignalled crossing is space that was once open to pedestrians but is now reduced to a single pathway that gives you no option but the use the unsignalled junction. Classy stuff

Where are you talking about?

How is it blocking a green pedestrian light?

That certainly should never happen as the interlocking should prevent it.

In other words the tram would have to be clear of the pedestrian crossing before the pedestrian lights go green.

The length of the tram should have nothing to do with it as the lights should not change until the tram is clear of them. If they are changing before the tram has cleared them, then that’s a serious problem.

With the unsignalled crossings, people are just going to have to wait.

LXFlyer

Idbatterim wrote: »

fair enough points. My proposal for doing that is because of how vital OCS and westmoreland street, college green are for the massive amount of buses that are the backbone of dublins transport system.

I wonder if you could the crayons out and go back in time, would building Metro north on the site of the hawkins and college house etc worked. have interchange with dart underground there. That would be the OCS south stop, simply link it with pedestrian tunnels under liffey.

Metro north could have connected the two lines. Run the line from broombridge into the red line instead or have it also use the Metro north tunnel.

Could my proposal or tweaking of them, saved significant sums on MN and DU?

If this was being done again it would never have been routed through College Green in the first place - it was a hamfisted designed route with no real consideration of the impact on bus passengers.

But we are where we are and at this stage we will have to see how things pan out.

The fun will really start when the longer trams commence operations.

roadmaster

When you get on in Broombridge will you be able to go on the same tram to brides glen or will you have to change at SSG?

Stephen Strange

roadmaster wrote: »

When you get on in Broombridge will you be able to go on the same tram to brides glen or will you have to change at SSG?

I think its Brides Glen > Parnell Street and Sandyford > Broombridge.

Jamie2k9

Looks like the new trams have a ceiling bar where the 4 seat boots are located. Not sure if it's new but think it might be.

LeinsterDub

Dublin City Council has said that the start of Dublin's Luas cross city service next month may require a ban on taxis using College Green.

The council had hoped to have a ban on east/west traffic movement and a new pedestrian plaza in place at College Green, but these plans are under appeal to An Bord Pleanála.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2017/1117/920884-luas/

Let the traffic chaos begin!

vrusinov

Regarding buses - IMO, the whole bus network needs to be redesigned.

Right now majority of routes converge into single point and the whole area around College Green is a mess of pedestrians, tour buses, Dublin buses and now Luas. All this while other parts of city and especially suburbs are not served very well.

Try getting to Sandyford business center from other random place in South Dublin (you'll likely need to go through College Green). Or to Smithfield.

I would hope to see new Luas line pushing some buses to alternative routes, and buses serving more as feeders to luas/dart until more routes are built.

LeinsterDub

vrusinov wrote: »

Regarding buses - IMO, the whole bus network needs to be redesigned.

Right now majority of routes converge into single point and the whole area around College Green is a mess of pedestrians, tour buses, Dublin buses and now Luas. All this while other parts of city and especially suburbs are not served very well.

Try getting to Sandyford business center from other random place in South Dublin (you'll likely need to go through College Green). Or to Smithfield.

I would hope to see new Luas line pushing some buses to alternative routes, and buses serving more as feeders to luas/dart until more routes are built.

Bus Connects is promising an actually planned network.

https://www.busconnects.ie/

riddlinrussell

vrusinov wrote: »

Regarding buses - IMO, the whole bus network needs to be redesigned.

Right now majority of routes converge into single point and the whole area around College Green is a mess of pedestrians, tour buses, Dublin buses and now Luas. All this while other parts of city and especially suburbs are not served very well.

Try getting to Sandyford business center from other random place in South Dublin (you'll likely need to go through College Green). Or to Smithfield.

I would hope to see new Luas line pushing some buses to alternative routes, and buses serving more as feeders to luas/dart until more routes are built.

Shouldnt most of this be underway already as part of the Busconnects program?

yabadabado

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Shouldnt most of this be underway already as part of the Busconnects program?

imo should have been up and running before Luas CC starts.

Idbatterim

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2017/1117/920884-luas/

Let the traffic chaos begin!

hang on, IF they are banned and this whole episode is turning into a farce in my opinion. Why not only ban them during peak hours?

vrusinov

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Bus Connects is promising an actually planned network.

https://www.busconnects.ie/

Thanks, wasn't aware it actually happening. Question is when.

Chivito550

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Looks like the new trams have a ceiling bar where the 4 seat boots are located. Not sure if it's new but think it might be.

Fantastic! Sense prevails.

D14Rugby

Anybody know how they plan to introduce busconnects? Gradually as in getting the infrastructure in place route by route and introduce the routes as the infrastructure is there or do the infrastructure but not introduce the routes until its all ready then say something like from jan first all the old routes are gone and here the new ones?

LXFlyer

Idbatterim wrote: »

hang on, IF they are banned and this whole episode is turning into a farce in my opinion. Why not only ban them during peak hours?

Not a farce at all - quite frankly I suspect it is inevitable from say 07:00 to 19:00.

I don’t see how the planned volume of trams, along with the existing volume of buses can possibly co-exist with taxis as well during peak hours.

I’d call it common sense.

Of course all of this should have formed part of the original planning process, but as with any transport planning in Ireland, no detailed planning for the impact of LUAS CC on traffic and more importantly the bus service was carried out.

LXFlyer

vrusinov wrote: »

Thanks, wasn't aware it actually happening. Question is when.

D14Rugby wrote: »

Anybody know how they plan to introduce busconnects? Gradually as in getting the infrastructure in place route by route and introduce the routes as the infrastructure is there or do the infrastructure but not introduce the routes until its all ready then say something like from jan first all the old routes are gone and here the new ones?

The plans are due to go to public consultation in Q1 2018.

Allowing for the consultation period and inevitable changes and possible redesign following the consultation, then internal vehicle and driver roster redesign, it will be late next year at the earliest, probably Q4, but personally I reckon it will be 2019 before the revised network is implemented.

Jarrett Walker (the network design consultant) favours a Big Bang change. That’s going to require all of the scheduling and rostering to be completed - hence the long lead time.

The infrastructure will depend upon government funding, and I suspect there’s going to be massive opposition to the CPOing of part or all of large numbers of front gardens as suggested under the plan, which in itself will lead to political unease.

So I’m not holding my breath.

Dardania

LXFlyer wrote: »

vrusinov wrote: »

Thanks, wasn't aware it actually happening. Question is when.

D14Rugby wrote: »

Anybody know how they plan to introduce busconnects? Gradually as in getting the infrastructure in place route by route and introduce the routes as the infrastructure is there or do the infrastructure but not introduce the routes until its all ready then say something like from jan first all the old routes are gone and here the new ones?

The plans are due to go to public consultation in Q1 2018.

Allowing for the consultation period and inevitable changes and possible redesign following the consultation, then internal vehicle and driver roster redesign, it will be late next year at the earliest, probably Q4, but personally I reckon it will be 2019 before the revised network is implemented.

Jarrett Walker (the network design consultant) favours a Big Bang change. That’s going to require all of the scheduling and rostering to be completed - hence the long lead time.

The infrastructure will depend upon government funding, and I suspect there’s going to be massive opposition to the CPOing of part or all of large numbers of front gardens as suggested under the plan, which in itself will lead to political unease.

So I’m not holding my breath.

Big Bang is good, however it bring some the risk if there is any hiccup, people will backlash and possible reversion - like that whole business with the orbital traffic about 10/15 years ago.

Are the plans in public domain yet?

ricimaki

The first new tram arrived yesterday.

LXFlyer

Dardania wrote: »

Big Bang is good, however it bring some the risk if there is any hiccup, people will backlash and possible reversion - like that whole business with the orbital traffic about 10/15 years ago.

Are the plans in public domain yet?

No they're not as they are only being formulated at the moment.

They are scheduled to be published in Q1 of next year as I posted above and will go to public consultation then.

MJohnston

LXFlyer wrote: »

No they're not as they are only being formulated at the moment.

They are scheduled to be published in Q1 of next year as I posted above and will go to public consultation then.

Presumably a plan for implementation will also be part of that report?