Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

spacetweek

How exactly would you access the cabinet if it had a structure over it??

wakka12 wrote: »

But as usual we are given dog**** urban planning, not that I care that much anymore Ive pretty much given up on dublin ever being a nice city, theres just too little motivation amongst any bodies with influence for this to ever happen

I never heard such an overreaction as the one for these cabinets, the press calling them Luas-henge and so on. Get a life! They aren’t in the way and they aren’t noticeable.
Paint over them as with the traffic light control boxes, problem solved.

MJohnston

To be honest, I think the damage was done with regard to utility cabinets on College Green and Grafton Street long before Luas came along:





Maybe if these areas had already been properly maintained and cared for by DCC, there would have been a greater inclination to not add more during Luas planning.

markpb

spacetweek wrote: »

I never heard such an overreaction as the one for these cabinets, the press calling them Luas-henge and so on. Get a life! They aren’t in the way and they aren’t noticeable.
Paint over them as with the traffic light control boxes, problem solved.

We're lucky enough to live in an ancient city which is famous for its history. We have a duty to look after it for future generations. Every time we make a decision to put infrastructure into one of our historic areas, it should be done with respect. I'm not staying we should live in the past but we rightfully deride our predecessors for the destruction they caused during the construction of the ESB HQ and the DCC HQ and likewise, our children will judge us for our actions.

I totally accept that these cabinets are necessary but I find it hard to believe that there's no way there could have been made more inconspicuous. The lump on o'Connell St is no better.

mrsdewinter

markpb wrote: »

We're lucky enough to live in an ancient city which is famous for its history. We have a duty to look after it for future generations. Every time we make a decision to put infrastructure into one of our historic areas, it should be done with respect. I'm not staying we should live in the past but we rightfully deride our predecessors for the destruction they caused during the construction of the ESB HQ and the DCC HQ and likewise, our children will judge us for our actions.

I totally accept that these cabinets are necessary but I find it hard to believe that there's no way there could have been made more inconspicuous. The lump on o'Connell St is no better.

To be honest, making such additions to the landscape into 'lumps' is probably the best approach to take. It means they're self-contained, and their inner workings can be accessed easily when required. A living city changes all the time. Most people can live with it as part of the price we pay for living here.

wakka12

mrsdewinter wrote: »

To be honest, making such additions to the landscape into 'lumps' is probably the best approach to take. It means they're self-contained, and their inner workings can be accessed easily when required. A living city changes all the time. Most people can live with it as part of the price we pay for living here.

I hate that such a long discussion even needs to be had about them . They're just not acceptable looking, it shouldn't even have to be said that they need to be changed.
Georgians had trams yet they didnt and wouldn't put up with something like that ruining their streetscapes
I can't believe the council would allow it on the most central point of the entire city, its just the principle of it.This is what the fuss is about, not the boxes, which we are all used to around dublin

Dardania

Was it not stated at the time that the function of the boxes would be considered in the grand scheme of turning that area into a pedestrian plaza?

trellheim

Anyone hear anything more on way through to Grangegorman ?

Sierra Oscar

They're doing three minute peak frequency tests tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/LiveDrive/status/935812094116728832

Luas tests: On Thursday 30th November between 0800 – 0900hrs Luas Cross City will be running test trams at a three minute frequency.

optogirl

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

They're doing three minute peak frequency tests tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/LiveDrive/status/935812094116728832

any chance of a lift lads?

LeinsterDub

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

They're doing three minute peak frequency tests tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/LiveDrive/status/935812094116728832

5 times better than Dart !

markpb

LeinsterDub wrote: »

5 times better than Dart !

Not to mention starting at least 30 minutes earlier on weekday mornings, 90 minutes earlier on a Sunday morning and finishing over an hour later on weeknights.

LXFlyer

LeinsterDub wrote: »

5 times better than Dart !

Just to note that the 3 min frequency in the new LUAS schedule is only from 08:00 to 08:43 out of Sandyford.

DART will get the 10 minute frequency during 2018 which should deliver similar capacity given that the trains are significantly bigger than a tram - there’s a bit more to comparing a light rail tram with a heavy rail train than simply frequency.

You also ignore the fact that DART has to share space with Maynooth, Northern and PPT services in the city centre along with Intercity services too on a two track Railway. It’s simply not possible to deliver that level of service along the entire DART line and frankly it would be carrying some air if it did.

I remain to be convinced about how well the 3 minute Green Line LUAS service will work through the city centre, given the far greater interaction with other transport in the city centre than the Red Line.

AngryLips

LXFlyer wrote: »

DART will get the 10 minute frequency during 2018 which should

Why are we still pretending this will become a thing?

D.L.R.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

5 times better than Dart !

Except Darts are bigger and faster.

AngryLips

D.L.R. wrote: »

Except Darts are bigger and faster.

I'd still choose to wait 3 minutes for a Luas over 15 minutes for a Dart anyday

sdanseo

AngryLips wrote: »

I'd still choose to wait 3 minutes for a Luas over 15 minutes for a Dart anyday

Depends where you live. Very small areas of the city are served by both

LeinsterDub

D.L.R. wrote: »

Except Darts are bigger and faster.

Between Clontarf Road and Grand Canal dock that's disputable . Especially if you end up waiting for a driver change.

markpb

D.L.R. wrote: »

Except Darts are bigger and faster.

I suspect that if you ask most people which they'd prefer: a 15 minutes wait and some space or a 5 minutes wait and less space, most will tell you they'd prefer to get home quicker.

The idea that dart is faster then Luas is a myth. Dart from Pearse to Monkstown takes 16 minutes. Luas from St Stephens Green to Sandyford takes 20 minutes. It's barely going to register for most people and, even if they did, the higher punctuality rate and lower average wait time means that Luas is still faster for most trips.

LXFlyer

AngryLips wrote: »

Why are we still pretending this will become a thing?

It will happen - there is no pretence.

The unions have been holding out on agreeing any new rosters until the current pay negotiations conclude (ballots are currently ongoing). Hence there are no massive changes in the new rail timetables.

Once that happens then the process for new Connolly schedules can finally take place.

Plus IE have confirmed again that it will happen.

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/newtimetable2017

Iarnród Éireann plans a further and more significant timetable revision in the first half of 2018 to enhance DART frequency, off-peak Maynooth services and other changes, subject to a full public consultation process, and the approval of the National Transport Authority.

LXFlyer

AngryLips wrote: »

I'd still choose to wait 3 minutes for a Luas over 15 minutes for a Dart anyday

But who has the choice let’s be honest - people are comparing apples with oranges. They serve different areas of the city.

The schedule on the new LUAS line to and from Broombridge incidentally has 20 minute gaps at peak times.

LeinsterDub

LXFlyer wrote: »

But who has the choice let’s be honest - people are comparing apples with oranges. They serve different areas of the city.

The schedule on the new LUAS line to and from Broombridge incidentally has 20 minute gaps at peak times.

No people are comparing apples with slightly different apples . If you can run a tram at surface through the heart of Dublin City centre every 3 minutes and there is even talk on every 2 minutes and 30 second you should be able to run a DART on more or less fully graded segregated lines more than every 15 minutes.

dixiefly

LXFlyer wrote: »

But who has the choice let’s be honest - people are comparing apples with oranges. They serve different areas of the city.

The schedule on the new LUAS line to and from Broombridge incidentally has 20 minute gaps at peak times.

Where did you see the schedule?

LeinsterDub

dixiefly wrote: »

Where did you see the schedule?

More like when. 2 years later and still no sign.

Also I wasn't aware of this

However the increase in the number of trains using the line will lengthen journey times “across the Dart schedule” the company has admitted.

Is this still the case?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dart-services-set-to-run-every-10-minutes-in-2016-1.2442041

LXFlyer

LeinsterDub wrote: »

No people are comparing apples with slightly different apples . If you can run a tram at surface through the heart of Dublin City centre every 3 minutes and there is even talk on every 2 minutes and 30 second you should be able to run a DART on more or less fully graded segregated lines more than every 15 minutes.

And you will - there will be a 10 minute frequency along the DART line in due course in 2018, which when combined with the Maynooth, Northern line and PPT services won't be far off a train every 3 minutes across the loop line bridge.

However, there are significant differences between the two modes of transport - one is a light rail system and the other heavy rail. The latter will have longer braking distances due to the heavier weight, and longer signalling sections.

The level crossings on the south side of the DART line are very restrictive - simply put it isn't possible to have more than 13 or 14 trains an hour south of Grand Canal Dock (both directions combined) as the impact on traffic would be far too great.

An example of the impact of the level crossings, is that you cannot for example allow traffic to continue to cross a railway level crossing at the end of a station while a train approaches for fear of the train overshooting the platform (e.g. northbound at Lansdowne Road or Sydney Parade), which means traffic is held up for longer.

However, heavy rail offers the ability to transport far more people on each train than the trams.

We have yet to see how the 3 minute Green Line frequency will work on the extended on-street sections in the city centre, where they share space with buses and taxis, and have to cross the Red Line, and then at the top of O'Connell Street, where they will have to slot in the right order with trams coming from Broombridge - it's going to be quite a juggling act to get this right, and I think we are in for an interesting period during December.

LXFlyer

dixiefly wrote: »

Where did you see the schedule?

I extracted it from the NTA Journey Planner and posted it in post #3506 above.

Monday/Friday morning peak departures from Broombridge between 07:00 and 09:15 will be:
07:05; 07:16; 07:36; 07:49; 08:03; 08:22; 08:40; 08:54; 09:10

Sunday frequency will be every 24 minutes from Broombridge.

LXFlyer

LeinsterDub wrote: »

More like when. 2 years later and still no sign.

That poster is asking about the LUAS schedule from Broombridge, not the DART.

The DART 10 minute service was due to come into service originally a year ago, in December 2016 (and not two years ago), but got deferred due to the ongoing pay dispute as the unions refused to negotiate new rosters.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Also I wasn't aware of this

However the increase in the number of trains using the line will lengthen journey times “across the Dart schedule” the company has admitted.

Is this still the case?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dart-services-set-to-run-every-10-minutes-in-2016-1.2442041

The current DART schedule needs completely revised running times to reflect the performance. One look at DART punctuality statistics will tell you that the schedule does not reflect reality. It was 69% during the main leaf fall period and has been atrocious all year.

That tells me that the scheduled running times do need to be extended to match the reality that is happening on the ground.

When more trains are added to the mix, the schedule will need to be robust to avoid the impact of delays. That inevitably will mean longer scheduled journey times, but being honest, they will in all probability reflect the current journey times being experienced.

MJohnston

I've noticed that the Luas info page now says that SSG to Broombridge will take 25 minutes, which is down from their original estimate of 27 minutes, and closer to the original 22 minutes.

LeinsterDub

MJohnston wrote: »

I've noticed that the Luas info page now says that SSG to Broombridge will take 25 minutes, which is down from their original estimate of 27 minutes, and closer to the original 22 minutes.

So hour and five end to end? That's pretty good I used to have go from Finglas to Bride's Glen and it would easily take an hour hour fifteen via the M50

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

I've noticed that the Luas info page now says that SSG to Broombridge will take 25 minutes, which is down from their original estimate of 27 minutes, and closer to the original 22 minutes.

Look at it again - the article says "about 25 minutes". I think the key word there is "about".

Then check the NTA journey planner, and you'll see that they are still allowing 27 minutes for the journey. That's the key location for operational information as it has the full schedule loaded onto it.

I can't see that changing until there has been an actual bedding-in period of full timetable service, to allow for traffic (and traffic signal) patterns to settle (including whatever changes may be necessary to traffic to be implemented), and for people to become familiar with a full service on the line (and indeed stop parking on it for example!).

MJohnston

LXFlyer wrote: »

Look at it again - the article says "about 25 minutes". I think the key word there is "about".

Then check the NTA journey planner, and you'll see that they are still allowing 27 minutes for the journey. That's the key location for operational information as it has the full schedule loaded onto it.

I can't see that changing until there has been an actual bedding-in period of full timetable service, to allow for traffic (and traffic signal) patterns to settle (including whatever changes may be necessary to traffic to be implemented), and for people to become familiar with a full service on the line (and indeed stop parking on it for example!).

Take a look at archive.org and you'll see that on the 22nd of November, the wording on the same page was "approximately 27 minutes" and now it says "approximately 25 minutes".

Now maybe that's a small PR tweak, but I wouldn't have mentioned it if they hadn't had the old wording in. It's entirely possible that with the increased frequency of testing they've been doing recently, they've adjusted it.