Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

Take a look at archive.org and you'll see that on the 22nd of November, the wording on the same page was "approximately 27 minutes" and now it says "approximately 25 minutes".

Now maybe that's a small PR tweak, but I wouldn't have mentioned it if they hadn't had the old wording in. It's entirely possible that with the increased frequency of testing they've been doing recently, they've adjusted it.

I’d think it very unlikely that they are going to upload a full schedule into the journey planner only to change it a few days later without it going into service. Given that’s potential for mishaps, I can’t see them suddenly changing that without seeing how it goes initially.

I suspect that is nothing more than PR. I’d be more inclined to go by an actual timetable than a news piece.

Sierra Oscar

I didn't notice any major issues with the buses this morning along the quays / College Green. The peak frequency tests seem to have went pretty well?

One thing I can see being an issue is the cyclists using the tracks on the College Street / College Green turn. They have to stop when a tram comes around the bend (which they couldn't see) and either lift their bike onto the footpath or onto the bus lane. There is a high curb on eitherside. Should they even be using the tram lane in the first place?

MJohnston

LXFlyer wrote: »

I’d think it very unlikely that they are going to upload a full schedule into the journey planner only to change it a few days later without it going into service. Given that’s potential for mishaps, I can’t see them suddenly changing that without seeing how it goes initially.

I suspect that is nothing more than PR. I’d be more inclined to go by an actual timetable than a news piece.

I dunno, I'd be inclined to think that this is exactly the phase of operation where they would be making frequent changes to timetables and journey times.

As for the Journey Planner, journey times could decrease by 2 minutes without seriously affecting the timetable, so they could simply upload a new schedule pretty quickly I would imagine, especially given there are still about 10 days left until service begins.

As an aside, I think most people will never look for a Luas timetable, at most they'll look for some RTPI app.

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

I dunno, I'd be inclined to think that this is exactly the phase of operation where they would be making frequent changes to timetables and journey times.

As for the Journey Planner, journey times could decrease by 2 minutes without seriously affecting the timetable, so they could simply upload a new schedule pretty quickly I would imagine, especially given there are still about 10 days left until service begins.

As an aside, I think most people will never look for a Luas timetable, at most they'll look for some RTPI app.

They wouldn’t in the normal course of events (particularly as it is rather difficult to find) - but read my post #3566 above and tell me that you wouldn’t need to check the times (particularly on a Sunday).

I’m not sure what your point is regarding the timetable - I’m making the point that it does run to a timetable (despite what TFI/LUAS actually claim) and that’s what is loaded into the journey planner. I really doubt that timetable is going to change until after a bedding in period of passenger service.

Whether people look at the timetable or not is up to them, but it does run to a timetable and a pretty awful one at that on the Broombridge section.

MJohnston

LXFlyer wrote: »

I really doubt that timetable is going to change until after a bedding in period of passenger service.

This is the bit I don’t agree with. The pre-launch testing will change the timetable too, imo, as indeed it already has when 21 minutes was revised upwards.

trellheim

we may have a path to Grangegorman , saw a digger there this morning but it'll be close given the current state to get it done

Jamie2k9

Reading this weekend it was completed 2 million under budget.

MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

we may have a path to Grangegorman , saw a digger there this morning but it'll be close given the current state to get it done

It looks, from this image posted on Facebook by GGDA that they'll have some kind of path marked by the purple dashed line on the map:



Not exactly the Broadstone gate that they claimed they'd have open for LCC launch, but I lost faith in that a long time ago.

trellheim

yes that purple line looks drawn in at the last moment doesnt it , saw it on twitter this morning . The path to the east at the bottom of the purple line is really misleading as no such route exists

( this is all copied from https://www.luascrosscity.ie/route-map-and-alignment-drawings-2/ ) which makes it look like you can get through Marne villas

Victor

trellheim wrote: »

Anyone hear anything more on way through to Grangegorman ?

Photos on other thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105368046

wakka12

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Reading this weekend it was completed 2 million under budget.

Good on them. Id say its very hard to estimate the cost of a project like that given the likeliness for delays with excavations and exposed electrics and the busy city centre location

Victor

wakka12 wrote: »

Good on them. Id say its very hard to estimate the cost of a project like that given the likeliness for delays with excavations and exposed electrics and the busy city centre location

Realise that projects can be 'grown' to fit budgets, e.g. Grangegorman stop and the extra trams weren't part of the budget.

Zebra3

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/cabra-residents-fear-parking-problems-once-luas-cross-city-begins-1.3314155?mode=amp

Concerns over lack of park and ride around Broombridge.

markpb

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/cabra-residents-fear-parking-problems-once-luas-cross-city-begins-1.3314155?mode=amp

Concerns over lack of park and ride around Broombridge.

I'm a bit confused about the problem and the article. The only solution to this is to introduce P&D and permit parking. The only people who can do this are the residents in the area. It sounds from the article that the residents haven't asked for it to happen (with the exception of a few small areas). What do the residents want?

Also the rubbish later on in the article about the lack of the park and ride is even worse. It's completely unfathomable that any park & ride would ever have been built along the luas extension. Where would you build it? How would you expect the mostly residential roads in the area to cope with the increased traffic that a P&R would create?

LeinsterDub

markpb wrote: »

Where would you build it?

Broadstone? Move the Bus Depot out to an expanded Harristown .

The Broadstone is probably too central though

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about the problem and the article. The only solution to this is to introduce P&D and permit parking. The only people who can do this are the residents in the area. It sounds from the article that the residents haven't asked for it to happen (with the exception of a few small areas). What do the residents want?

As a resident of Cabra, I sure as hell don't want Pay and Display parking, but I don't want the street filled with Luas commuters parking on it either.

Also the rubbish later on in the article about the lack of the park and ride is even worse. It's completely unfathomable that any park & ride would ever have been built along the luas extension. Where would you build it? How would you expect the mostly residential roads in the area to cope with the increased traffic that a P&R would create?

You could easily build a Park and Ride along Ballyboggan Road very close to Broombridge that would be perfect for a lot of people who could drive from Finglas or Ashtown (perhaps even Ballymun). Something at Broadstone or Grangegorman would also be great for keeping a lot of cars out of the city centre at weekends.

loyatemu

it's too close to the city centre for P&R

MJohnston

loyatemu wrote: »

it's too close to the city centre for P&R

Given the capacity issues in the city centre itself, there's really no such thing as "too close" to the CC for a park and ride, imo. I also think anything that kills off the city centre car park trade is a good thing.

Sierra Oscar

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I didn't notice any major issues with the buses this morning along the quays / College Green. The peak frequency tests seem to have went pretty well?

One thing I can see being an issue is the cyclists using the tracks on the College Street / College Green turn. They have to stop when a tram comes around the bend (which they couldn't see) and either lift their bike onto the footpath or onto the bus lane. There is a high curb on eitherside. Should they even be using the tram lane in the first place?

Just a follow up on this, it looks like cyclists will have to dismount in this area.

https://twitter.com/SorchaPollak/status/937640636714450950

G_R

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Just a follow up on this, it looks like cyclists will have to dismount in this area.

https://twitter.com/SorchaPollak/status/937640636714450950

Is that not a temporary sign though?

fxotoole

If this is launching on Saturday the lads in Broombridge would want to get the finger out. The place is still in rag order!!

MJohnston

G_R wrote: »

Is that not a temporary sign though?

It's temporary and advisory only, it has no legal basis by itself.

CramCycle

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Just a follow up on this, it looks like cyclists will have to dismount in this area.

https://twitter.com/SorchaPollak/status/937640636714450950

I am confused about the earlier bit about cyclists not seeing trams coming round the bend? Where is this, if they are going with traffic it should not be an issue.

Middle Man

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Just a follow up on this, it looks like cyclists will have to dismount in this area.

https://twitter.com/SorchaPollak/status/937640636714450950

Well, it is a major pedestrian area - a thoroughfare that links the city's two central shopping districts. Next, you'll want to be allowed cycle on the M50 - well the College Green area is the pedestrian equivalent - other than shopping precincts, it's probably the country's busiest pedestrian route (Lower Grafton Street - College Green - Westmoreland Street, O'Connell Bridge, Lower O'Connell Street)!

Sierra Oscar

G_R wrote: »

Is that not a temporary sign though?

Not by the sounds of the article.

An NTA spokeswoman explained there were a high number of trams, buses/coaches and taxis using the same street space as “a significant volume of cyclists” along a corridor with “a restricted width between kerbline and tram track”. “This arrangement gives rise to concerns for the safety of cyclists using these particular links, with the possibility of bicycle wheels becoming caught in the groove of the tram track leading to accidents and incidents.” She added that more “permanent signs” would be erected at Grafton Street, Nassau Street and Dawson Street.

CramCycle wrote: »

I am confused about the earlier bit about cyclists not seeing trams coming round the bend? Where is this, if they are going with traffic it should not be an issue.

On the tram track where College Street intersects with College Green (here).

That particular stretch of track has a high curb either side separating it from the footpath and bus lane. No other motor traffic uses that particular stretch of tram track. If a cyclist is on it and a tram approaches around the bend from College Green then they have to dismount and lift their bike off the tram line. The tram track is separate from the bus lane at that particular turn.

It's not a major issue to be honest, perhaps with time people will get used to the new layout. I suspect cyclists are meant to stay in the separated bus lane, but many are taking the bend by actually using the separated tram track itself.

LXFlyer

Interesting to see from the Irish Times article below that no further traffic changes in the city centre will take place until the New Year.

This means that general traffic will continue to be able to use College Green outside of 07:00-19:00 Monday-Friday, a rather mind boggling decision.

It does also confirm that there will be bus route changes in the New Year, presumably the return of the Rathmines routes to their traditional routing via St Stephen's Green and Dawson St/Kildare St, Nassau St and Grafton St.

The 27 minute journey time from St Stephen's Green to Broombridge remains on the NTA journey planner and is mentioned in the article, so I don't see that changing at this stage.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/new-trams-face-traffic-challenges-in-dublin-city-centre-1.3315326

NyOmnishambles

fxotoole wrote: »

If this is launching on Saturday the lads in Broombridge would want to get the finger out. The place is still in rag order!!

True

And the tower they have erected for the footbridge is the ugliest thing I have ever seen and wouldn't look out of place beside Hawkins House

MJohnston

LXFlyer wrote: »

Interesting to see from the Irish Times article below that no further traffic changes in the city centre will take place until the New Year.

This means that general traffic will continue to be able to use College Green outside of 07:00-19:00 Monday-Friday, a rather mind boggling decision

That'll be the "business groups" again short-sightedly whinging that people won't come and do their Christmas shopping in the city otherwise. I remember they got the Bus Gate lifted completely in the evenings in the past.

CramCycle

MJohnston wrote: »

That'll be the "business groups" again short-sightedly whinging that people won't come and do their Christmas shopping in the city otherwise. I remember they got the Bus Gate lifted completely in the evenings in the past.

Those business groups do tend to be the most short sighted and ill informed people going. The same crowds who said the LUAS was ruining their trade, that people not being able to park in town was ruining shopping levels, that cyclists don't spend money or people on buses don't do expensive shopping (some points are exaggerated).#

Truth be told, they don't even realise, that they just want the ability to drive into work and park there, and to hell with any damage it causes to their own business.

Zebra3

They also want people to park in their car parks. €€€€€€.