Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

MJohnston

Bambi wrote: »

I never said anything, the original poster said that they can make their morning commute from Cabra in about 20 minutes in their car and thus a luas every 18 minutes is of no real benefit to them

I'm just pointing out that RTPI does nothing to change this and thinking it does is daft.

Fair enough it wasn't you said that originally, however what I said still applies to them.

fxotoole

trellheim wrote: »

I think its meant you can plan ahead to time your arrival with that of a tram rather than waiting on a cold platform.

Not if you’re connecting from a Longford/Maynooth train. You’re bound by what time your train arrives in Broombridge.

CramCycle

MJohnston wrote: »

Of course, with the car then you've got to go find a parking spot, and pay for that all day.

I think people choose to forget the issues with PT for perceived comfort. My partner drives to work every day, on a good day, her time is 5 minutes faster than PT, most days, it is 30 minutes later. I have tried to convince, after hearing the complaints at home about commute times, not to drive but, knowing the truth, the car is still chosen. That is the way of some people, until the choice is completely removed, this is the way it will be.

fxotoole wrote: »

Not if you’re connecting from a Longford/Maynooth train. You’re bound by what time your train arrives in Broombridge.

Would they not go to Connolly and get the more frequent LUAS?

Jamie2k9

sugarman wrote: »

Maybe Im blind, but cant seem to see it anywhere... which is a bit surprising.. but if I were to travel from one stop on the red line to one stop on the green. Is it calculated as one fair? ie tag on at the red stop, tag off at the green? Or 2 seperate trips in which is must tag off at Abbey St and tag on at GPO or Marlborough?

Tag on/off each line.

MJohnston

CramCycle wrote: »

I think people choose to forget the issues with PT for perceived comfort. My partner drives to work every day, on a good day, her time is 5 minutes faster than PT, most days, it is 30 minutes later. I have tried to convince, after hearing the complaints at home about commute times, not to drive but, knowing the truth, the car is still chosen. That is the way of some people, until the choice is completely removed, this is the way it will be.

I understand that in a way, especially when compared against Dublin Bus.

But ultimately car commuting comes with a lot of discomfort too - sitting stuck in traffic, the frustrations of bad drivers, green signals getting missed because people are on their phones, badly designed junctions, etc. etc. There are so many things that make the blood boil when commuting as a car driver.

For me, driving only really wins on comfort against the bus - and even there just barely.

Now that LCC is open, I can't foresee ever taking the car into the city again (from Cabra).

sdanseo

sugarman wrote: »

Maybe Im blind, but cant seem to see it anywhere... which is a bit surprising.. but if I were to travel from one stop on the red line to one stop on the green. Is it calculated as one fair? ie tag on at the red stop, tag off at the green? Or 2 seperate trips in which is must tag off at Abbey St and tag on at GPO or Marlborough?

Based on the zones. So if you got on at Heuston and travelled to Stephen's Green or Connolly, it'd be a central zone fare for each.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Tag on/off each line.

No, not according to their fare structure. You'd end your journey and start a new one and pay twice by doing that.

MJohnston

sugarman wrote: »

Maybe Im blind, but cant seem to see it anywhere... which is a bit surprising.. but if I were to travel from one stop on the red line to one stop on the green. Is it calculated as one fair? ie tag on at the red stop, tag off at the green? Or 2 seperate trips in which is must tag off at Abbey St and tag on at GPO or Marlborough?

It can be calculated as 1 single fare...however the problem is that currently the Leap card has a timeout after tagging on of, I believe, 90 minutes.

Therefore, there is the vague possibility that someone could start a journey on the Red Line, then switch to the Green without tagging off and on again, and not reach the end of their journey on the Green Line before those 90 minutes are up. They'd then be on the tram without a valid ticket (without possibly even knowing it) after the timeout has passed, and if they tried to tag off at the end of their journey, they'd actually tag on for a second time, might not notice, and end up paying 2 full fares!

Additionally, there are some people that might get off at Abbey Street, intending to walk over to GPO and get on there without tagging on and off. Perfectly legal and fine by itself. But maybe they notice Boojum on their way past, and decide to nip in for a bite to eat. Then they come out, head up to GPO, the 90 minutes have passed so they've been auto-tagged off, and they're on the Green Line without a valid ticket, and again they might double tag on at the end of their journey.

So, basically, given how people are generally a bit....lax when it comes to remembering these sorts of things, Luas authorities have published the advice that you should tag off and then tag on again when you're switching between the two lines.

If you're a pro user and keep all the above in mind, you can probably avoid that, but I think it's best for the general advice to not complicate matters!

CramCycle

MJohnston wrote: »

I understand that in a way, especially when compared against Dublin Bus.

But ultimately car commuting comes with a lot of discomfort too - sitting stuck in traffic, the frustrations of bad drivers, green signals getting missed because people are on their phones, badly designed junctions, etc. etc. There are so many things that make the blood boil when commuting as a car driver.

For me, driving only really wins on comfort against the bus - and even there just barely.

Now that LCC is open, I can't foresee ever taking the car into the city again (from Cabra).

100% agree but for such an intelligent person, they just don' want to hear it. They have a bus starting almost outside their house (guaranteed seat) and it is still not enough, some people cannot be reasoned with until you take away all the unreasonable options.

sdanseo wrote: »

Based on the zones. So if you got on at Heuston and travelled to Stephen's Green or Connolly, it'd be a central zone fare for each.



No, not according to their fare structure. You'd end your journey and start a new one and pay twice by doing that.

I thought they were telling people that they recommended that and it would not cost more, did I imagine that?

MJohnston

Actually, correction, it's 180 minutes for the timeout, so very unlikely to happen in the normal course of events, but just keep it in mind.

MJohnston

The Leap 90 discount is what allows you to do Tag On > Red Line > Tag Off > Walk > Tag On > Green Line > Tag Off for the same price as Tag On > Red Line > Walk > Green Line > Tag Off.

Leap 90 discount is €1, Central Zone fare is €1 (which is the extra you pay when doing the Tag Off-Tag On route), so it cancels out.

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

The Leap 90 discount is what allows you to do Tag On > Red Line > Tag Off > Walk > Tag On > Green Line > Tag Off for the same price as Tag On > Red Line > Walk > Green Line > Tag Off.

Leap 90 discount is €1, Central Zone fare is €1 (which is the extra you pay when doing the Tag Off-Tag On route), so it cancels out.

LEAP90 does not apply to LUAS-LUAS trips.

The fare for every LUAS journey is based on how many zones you travel through from your boarding stop to your final destination stop, including journeys that require both lines (and always has done).

The €1 fare is a promotional fare only available during the off-peak and only between certain stations within the central fare zone (not all of them).

MJohnston

LXFlyer wrote: »

LEAP90 does not apply to LUAS- LUAS trips.

Every LEAP journey is based on how many zones you travel through from your boarding stop to your final destination stop, including journeys that require both lines (and always has done).

The €1 fare is a promotional fare only available during the off-peak and only between certain stations within the central fare zone (not all of them).

So what's the explanation for the on-off-switch-on-off process being the same cost as on-switch-off?

Because it seems like in the former case: Tag on in Zone Red 1, travel to Central, tag off. That's a two-zone journey. Tag on at Central, travel to Green 1, tag off. That's a second two-zone journey. €3.88 peak on Leap.

Whereas tag on Zone Red, switch in Central, tag off at Green 1 seems like it should be a three-zone journey. €2.27 peak on Leap.

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

So what's the explanation for the on-off-switch-on-off process being the same cost as on-switch-off?

Because it seems like in the former case: Tag on in Zone Red 1, travel to Central, tag off. That's a two-zone journey. Tag on at Central, travel to Green 1, tag off. That's a second two-zone journey. €3.88 peak on Leap.

Whereas tag on Zone Red, switch in Central, tag off at Green 1 seems like it should be a three-zone journey. €2.27 peak on Leap.

The only reason they are asking people to tag off and tag back on again is in case people suddenly decide to head off and do something else before getting on the second tram, and don’t complete their journey in the time allowed. They could end up potentially with paying two maximum fares otherwise.

The fares are based on the overall journey taken - you look only at the overall number of zones travelled through for the entire journey - you don’t treat the two trams as separate individual fares.

Red 1 to Green 1 is a 3 zone fare - €2.27 peak on LEAP.

MJohnston

LXFlyer wrote: »

The only reason they are asking people to tag off and tag back on again is in case people suddenly decide to head off and do something else before getting on the second tram, and don’t complete their journey in the time allowed. They could end up potentially with paying two maximum fares otherwise.

The fares are based on the overall journey taken - you look only at the overall number of zones travelled through for the entire journey - you don’t treat the two trams as separate individual fares.

Red 1 to Green 1 is a 3 zone fare - €2.27 peak on LEAP.

That's not really answering my question though, the first part I already stated very clearly a page ago.

Basically, if you're able to tag off on the Red line and on to the Green line, what is the process that enables this, and what are the parameters and restrictions of it? For example, How long is the maximum time between transfers?

fxotoole

Took the Luas for my morning commute. Changed from the Longford train. A few observations:

-the pedestrian walkway out of broombridge station on the side heading into town is too narrow. You can only do single file so if you’re behind someone who’s a slow walker, you’re liable to miss your tram. There some sort of construction going on that might be a walkway that connects the Irish Rail station platform to the LUAS platform. Can anyone confirm thats what this is?

-Irish Rail really need to add an announcement to their service along the lines of “the next stop is Broombridge. Change here for LUAS”

-LUAS should have waited until Spring to launch the service. If they don’t have the trams to run a more regular service from Broombridge, they should have waited. 20 mins is an awful long wait if you’re connecting from Maynooth/Longford/Sligo/M3 trains

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

That's not really answering my question though, the first part I already stated very clearly a page ago.

Basically, if you're able to tag off on the Red line and on to the Green line, what is the process that enables this, and what are the parameters and restrictions of it? For example, How long is the maximum time between transfers?

You have always been able to tag on one line and tag off on the other. The system has been set up to facilitate this, given that the fares have always been on a zonal basis for LUAS.

I'm not quite sure what the maximum end-to-end journey time allowed between tagging on and off is - it was originally 90 minutes, but someone else suggested 180 minutes above.

LXFlyer

I take no particular pleasure in this, but it would appear that the morning peak has been an absolute disaster, with fewer trams on the Brides Glen-Sandyford section (frequency has been reduced), meaning people are being left behind, trams taking over 20 minutes just to travel between Parnell and St Stephen's Green, and the city centre traffic (including buses) at a standstill.

Why the service was launched without sufficient trams available is a disgrace, and I do feel somewhat vindicated by my criticisms of the design of this project (and the lack of any proper traffic planning associated with it).

buffalo

fxotoole wrote: »

-the pedestrian walkway out of broombridge station on the side heading into town is too narrow. You can only do single file so if you’re behind someone who’s a slow walker, you’re liable to miss your tram. There some sort of construction going on that might be a walkway that connects the Irish Rail station platform to the LUAS platform. Can anyone confirm thats what this is?

Yes, there's apparently a bridge being built (and presumably a walkway), so that you can get directly to the Luas from the IR platforms without having to exit the station onto the road..

Mr.Crinklewood

LXFlyer wrote: »

I take no particular pleasure in this, but it would appear that the morning peak has been an absolute disaster, with fewer trams on the Brides Glen-Sandyford section (frequency has been reduced), meaning people are being left behind, trams taking over 20 minutes just to travel between Parnell and St Stephen's Green, and the city centre traffic (including buses) at a standstill.

Why the service was launched without sufficient trams available is a disgrace, and I do feel somewhat vindicated by my criticisms of the design of this project (and the lack of any proper traffic planning associated with it).

What time was that at?


Got on inbound Luas at Windy Arbour at 8am with no issues.

LXFlyer

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

What time was that at?

Got on inbound Luas at Windy Arbour at 8am with no issues.

Have a look on twitter and search for “LUAS”.

Windy Arbour has the benefit of trams starting at Sandyford - the problems were further out on the Brides Glen to Sandyford section, as well as in the city centre.

jimmycrackcorm

LXFlyer wrote: »

I take no particular pleasure in this, but it would appear that the morning peak has been an absolute disaster, with fewer trams on the Brides Glen-Sandyford section (frequency has been reduced), meaning people are being left behind, trams taking over 20 minutes just to travel between Parnell and St Stephen's Green, and the city centre traffic (including buses) at a standstill.

A knock on effect is buses on the Quays now back to a standstill line the days before the labe changes

LeinsterDub

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

A knock on effect is buses on the Quays now back to a standstill line the days before the labe changes

Indeed OCS was a nightmare today too.

MonsterCookie

Was delighted to see the Luas launch on time but a bit disappointed to hear there is a shortage of trams!

I’m on a bus from Phibsborough to Merrion square and have to say getting from O’connell street to Nassau street was a disaster. College green area is a real choke point for buses and trams now. Maybe today will prove to be an anomaly but not a good start

NuMarvel

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

A knock on effect is buses on the Quays now back to a standstill line the days before the labe changes

"It can't be that bad" thinks I, naively.

Then I open up twitter and see this. :eek:

https://twitter.com/LiveDrive/status/940148387625820160

nilescraneo

My usual 13 that arrives in Clondalkin Village around 8:15am didn't arrive til 8:37. Dublin Bus on twitter said it's because busses are being delayed in city centre. Already awful bus service being negatively impacted by the 0 thought luas traffic management plan.

LeinsterDub

Had to walk from OCS to Stephen's Green. It's a complete mess around college green

trellheim

0 thought luas traffic management plan.

oh no it wasn't zero thought , theres been a bunch of people saying its going to be nuts since before construction ,

MJohnston

There was plenty of thought, DCC just didn't have the balls to put it into action against the wishes of powerful motoring lobbyists. Had the full original Quays traffic plans been implemented, we might not be seeing the same level of problems.

Jamie2k9

TII saying a signal fault at College Green caused major disruption however it was operating fine until this happened.

optogirl

Maybe I was outside of the congested hours but I got on a Luas in Cabra this morning at 7.10 & was at my desk in Sandyford at 8. I'm delighted & it's going to be fantastic going home which at times took up to 2 hours by Luas/Bus. Now I'm pretty much guaranteed to be home within an hour no matter what the traffic is like.