Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Technocentral

Anyone get the Luas in to CC from Broombridge, live on Tolka Valley Road and might give it a go tommorow morning?

Dardania

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

TII saying a signal fault at College Green caused major disruption however it was operating fine until this happened.

Reported here too, but not sounding great. Don't yellow boxes apply to trams too - surely they shouldn't be rushing to block gaps?: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gridlock-as-luas-cross-city-struggles-to-navigate-rush-hour-traffic-1.3323018

Jamie2k9

Dardania wrote: »

Reported here too, but not sounding great. Don't yellow boxes apply to trams too - surely they shouldn't be rushing to block gaps?: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gridlock-as-luas-cross-city-struggles-to-navigate-rush-hour-traffic-1.3323018

No, if the front of the tram isn't in close proximity to the signal it won't switch,

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

TII saying a signal fault at College Green caused major disruption however it was operating fine until this happened.

It’s worth noting that frequency before the signal failure was much lower than the full 3 minute frequency that was following on, so it’s not really possible to draw a conclusion that things would have continued just fine. We will have to wait and see until tomorrow morning (note that the evening frequency varies between every 4 and 5 minutes on the Parnell-Sandyford section) to get a proper idea.

Whatever the cause, the result this morning was total gridlock, which is not sustainable. It may however focus the minds of city councillors on the impact of not changing traffic patterns.

Note that thescheduled morning peak frequency from Brides Glen has reduced by two trams which caused a lot of grief in that section.

yabadabado

DCC should get the finger out and implement the traffic patterns that were planned.A few groups seem to hold a bit too much power.
A bad start but hopefully things improve.

Always seemed like an odd time to start the service,new trams not in service,xmas shopping crowd and possible poor weather conditions.Wouldnt Feb/March have made more sense?

trellheim

Wouldnt Feb/March have made more sense?

not if you wanted to claim a bonus payment for building it on time.

MayoSalmon

Where is the main traffic congestion issue occurring?

OCS or College Green?

brokenarms

yabadabado wrote: »

DCC should get the finger out and implement the traffic patterns that were planned.A few groups seem to hold a bit too much power.
A bad start but hopefully things improve.

Always seemed like an odd time to start the service,new trams not in service,xmas shopping crowd and possible poor weather conditions.Wouldnt Feb/March have made more sense?

Yep. For sure. Them backing down is no longer an option.

Time to take this investment seriously. There is no way trams should be allowed to hold up everything else. I even doubt they are working on full frequency yet.

If its like this now, I dread to think what the full size trams are going to do.

Taxis and private cars OUT.

Dyr

brokenarms wrote: »

Yep. For sure. Them backing down is no longer an option.

Time to take this investment seriously. There is no way trams should be allowed to hold up everything else. I even doubt they are working on full frequency yet.

If its like this now, I dread to think what the full size trams are going to do.

Taxis and private cars OUT.

I reckon without taxi and cars the trams will still be blocking junctions at certain choke points and holding up buses

All very badly thought out

yabadabado

Bambi wrote: »

I reckon without taxi and cars the trams will still be blocking junctions at certain choke points and holding up buses

All very badly thought out

Where are the choke points ?
Is the priblems on OCS or CG ?

Obvious Otter

You would swear that the cross city was just dropped into the city overnight. Its quicker walking from Molesworth Street to Stephens Green than taking the luas based on the 35 minutes it took this morning!

brokenarms

Bambi wrote: »

I reckon without taxi and cars the trams will still be blocking junctions at certain choke points and holding up buses

All very badly thought out

I dont think so.
Take pierce street bus gate. Its easy to predict a certain amount of busses coming through there every 15 mins as they work to a timetable.

The same can be said for the tram, which still needs alot of work on how they are regulated .

But Taxis are a rouge element. There are too many. And they will do anything to get ahead.

Before signalling can be accurately predicted, the unpredictable needs to be removed. Then 10 of thousands of people can proceed.

MJohnston

The main problem seems to be the east-west turning signals on College Green. A problem that everyone and their dog could see coming miles away. Apart from DCC apparently.

Even without the plaza, it's clear we need E-W traffic to be stopped on College Green. But in order to do that, we need alternative routes for buses, which means either waiting for BusConnects network review, or implementing major changes to traffic flows that will help buses considerably but make lives more miserable for car drivers AND then getting the BusConnects improvements.

Which means things like Parliament Street flow changes, which means Bachelor's Walk traffic bans, which means standing up to the car parks and to the AA and others.

So, in a way, I'm glad this has been a cluster****, because it's the only way we'll get DCC to take some fúcking notice.

BonnieSituation

nilescraneo wrote: »

My usual 13 that arrives in Clondalkin Village around 8:15am didn't arrive til 8:37. Dublin Bus on twitter said it's because busses are being delayed in city centre. Already awful bus service being negatively impacted by the 0 thought luas traffic management plan.

Nearly 20min to clear from Heuston to Arran Quay/Croppies Acre. hopped off and got the last remaining Dublin bike there. Disaster of a morning. Just like pre-busgate.

fxotoole

yabadabado wrote: »

Where are the choke points ?
Is the priblems on OCS or CG ?

CG was certainly a choke point this morning on to way into SSG. I don't know about the other direction though

Jamie2k9

LXFlyer wrote: »

It’s worth noting that frequency before the signal failure was much lower than the full 3 minute frequency that was following on, so it’s not really possible to draw a conclusion that things would have continued just fine. We will have to wait and see until tomorrow morning (note that the evening frequency varies between every 4 and 5 minutes on the Parnell-Sandyford section) to get a proper idea.

Whatever the cause, the result this morning was total gridlock, which is not sustainable. It may however focus the minds of city councillors on the impact of not changing traffic patterns.

Note that thescheduled morning peak frequency from Brides Glen has reduced by two trams which caused a lot of grief in that section.

I agree however the peak trail a week or two ago went was generally good. The mist telling picture this morning was two trams on top of one another along TCD gates inbound and Westmorland street empty with no trams or buses on it.

Ideally each tram needs to get a clear run from Grafton Street lights to start of Westmorland street, the a clear path into Westmorland stop without any stopping.

BonnieSituation

MJohnston wrote: »

The main problem seems to be the east-west turning signals on College Green. A problem that everyone and their dog could see coming miles away. Apart from DCC apparently.

Even without the plaza, it's clear we need E-W traffic to be stopped on College Green. But in order to do that, we need alternative routes for buses, which means either waiting for BusConnects network review, or implementing major changes to traffic flows that will help buses considerably but make lives more miserable for car drivers AND then getting the BusConnects improvements.

Which means things like Parliament Street flow changes, which means Bachelor's Walk traffic bans, which means standing up to the car parks and to the AA and others.

So, in a way, I'm glad this has been a cluster****, because it's the only way we'll get DCC to take some fúcking notice.

Nice report and video on contra-flow bus lane going in on Parliament St in 1980.

http://www.rte.ie/archives/2015/0325/689562-dublins-first-bus-lane/

The amount of taxis in the mix is incredible, they need to be banned from the bus lanes around college green. Some empty or with 1 passenger. They're also the drivers who don't see yellow boxes, and could'nt give a fiddlers if they're blocking someone else whether it be a bus or a tram full of people.

yabadabado

A ****ing squad car in the yellow box .What hope of taxi's and car's obeying the rules when the cops dont.

Jamie2k9

yabadabado wrote: »

A ****ing squad car in the yellow box .What hope of taxi's and car's obeying the rules when the cops dont.

It's the taxi blocking the tracks...

yabadabado

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's the taxi blocking the tracks...

"You must not enter the yellow box junction unless you can clear it without stopping".

Does that rule not apply there ?

NyOmnishambles

Technocentral wrote: »

Anyone get the Luas in to CC from Broombridge, live on Tolka Valley Road and might give it a go tommorow morning?

There were lots of problems this morning with all modes of transport so not sure the Luas can be judged yet

I got on a train at Castleknock, all were delayed, one arrived but there was no room to get on (the fact that it and the next train were only 4 carriages long is a matter for another day), waited 8-10 mins for the next one, squeezed on, barely
At Ashtown people were desperate after missing several trains so there was nearly a fight with someone forcing their way on and blaming other people for not moving when there genuinely wasn't room

So I decided to chance the Luas at Broombridge rather than staying on the Calcutta train seeing as it is now an option

I got on the Luas around 8.30, don't think it left for another 5 mins, the driver was nice and informative
It flew into town and only really started slowing down on Parnell Street

There was a huge delay crossing from Hawkins street to go around Trinity, there was a bus sitting on the tracks due to traffic problems everywhere else

I got to my Desk near the Harcourt Street stop at 9.15

It will probably never be a regular option for me due to the extra cost but if you live nearby it should be a good service and you will get a seat from Broombridge too which is nice

Jamie2k9

yabadabado wrote: »

"You must not enter the yellow box junction unless you can clear it without stopping".

Does that rule not apply there ?

Emergency services of course not, had they actually blocked the tram it would be a problem.

yabadabado

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Emergency services of course not, had they actually blocked the tram it would be a problem.

Couldn't they just have easily waited back the 20 yards.I know they arent blocking the track in that photo but no harm if they showed a bit of direction.

The taxi at the back wasn’t phased by the traffic Corp car in front. Straight onto the track to sit there.

Marlay

yabadabado wrote: »

Couldn't they just have easily waited back the 20 yards.I know they arent blocking the track in that photo but no harm if they showed a bit of direction.

If they did that the buses and taxis coming from D'Olier St would continually block the yellow box and the buses and taxis coming from Pearse St. past the Garda station would never be able to get out. Obviously what you want is traffic from all directions to obey the rule, but when you have two very busy lanes converging into one it's always going to be a mess. Not helped by taxis (and some buses) cutting in from the right turn lane for Westmoreland St.

shepinaheap

I came in from B'Bridge this morning . Frustrating lack of departure times online/on apps , it just gives you the next train departure which isn't great . Displays not working in BBridge either so even when I get there I don't know when its leaving !  Flew in to town, problems only after Parnell really . After years of delays and terrible service going home on Irish Rail, I'm willing to give this the benefit of doubt for the moment.

Dyr

yabadabado wrote: »

Where are the choke points ?
Is the priblems on OCS or CG ?

townsend/westmoreland street all the way through to college green is the obvious one

The chokepoints are where you have multiple junctions in close proximity, the only way you'll get a luas through them in one go is to stop everything on those junctions for the duration that the luas is passing through and even then it will need a clear space on the far side of the junctions equivalent to its length in order to not block any of the junctions with its rear carriages

And you have to do that every three minutes.

O'Connell street to Westmoreland street and Dolier street can back up with buses alone even when you take other traffic out of the equation and now you'll have to give the luas priority through those junctions, not sure how that's going to work out at all

Get Real

cisk wrote: »

yabadabado wrote: »

A ****ing squad car in the yellow box .What hope of taxi's and car's obeying the rules when the cops dont.

yabadabado wrote: »

"You must not enter the yellow box junction unless you can clear it without stopping".

Does that rule not apply there ?

In fairness, it's the traffic light sequence that causes this problem. The traffic coming from the right (D'Olier Street) has a very long green. This means traffic comes from D'Olier street, into this lane. The traffic lights from Pearse Street (direction from which photo was taken) heading towards college green, go green for a short period.

At this stage, the vehicles from D'Olier street that have just gone through have filled the lane and blocked right up to the yellow box.

By your logic, when the light goes green for Pearse Street into college green, the car shouldn't move forward. This would mean no movement of traffic at all for the whole of rush hour on Pearse Street, causing an obstruction.

Yes, in theory the cars shouldn't proceed to enter the yellow box. But then everything would be at a standstill, and D'Olier street traffic would just keep filling that space. There is literally nothing humanely possible to do bar drive forward. It's up to DCC/TFI to change these sequences and it hasn't been done.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I agree however the peak trail a week or two ago went was generally good. The mist telling picture this morning was two trams on top of one another along TCD gates inbound and Westmorland street empty with no trams or buses on it.

Ideally each tram needs to get a clear run from Grafton Street lights to start of Westmorland street, the a clear path into Westmorland stop without any stopping.

The peak simulation trial on a Saturday was a success, but that is no substitute for a weekday.

My understanding is that the trial last Thursday did not go well.

There’s going to have to be a lot of changes in the way people prioritise traffic management - particularly amongst our public representatives in Dublin City Council.