Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Kaizersoze81

The whole thing is a complete clusterf**k. Anyone with half a brain could foresee these problems at college green. It should never have been on street in the city centre, should’ve been underground

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

The main problem seems to be the east-west turning signals on College Green. A problem that everyone and their dog could see coming miles away. Apart from DCC apparently.

Even without the plaza, it's clear we need E-W traffic to be stopped on College Green. But in order to do that, we need alternative routes for buses, which means either waiting for BusConnects network review, or implementing major changes to traffic flows that will help buses considerably but make lives more miserable for car drivers AND then getting the BusConnects improvements.

Which means things like Parliament Street flow changes, which means Bachelor's Walk traffic bans, which means standing up to the car parks and to the AA and others.

So, in a way, I'm glad this has been a cluster****, because it's the only way we'll get DCC to take some fúcking notice.

Can’t really argue with any of that.

Add in providing a safe alternative cycling route to the mix as well. The removal of one traffic lane at College Green to facilitate the cycle lane hasn’t helped the traffic situation either. But then again no alternative cycle route seems to have been considered.

CramCycle

Obvious Otter wrote: »

You would swear that the cross city was just dropped into the city overnight. Its quicker walking from Molesworth Street to Stephens Green than taking the luas based on the 35 minutes it took this morning!

35 minutes? Jebus, you could go back and forth between the two on foot at least four times, if not more.

brokenarms wrote: »

Before signalling can be accurately predicted, the unpredictable needs to be removed. Then 10 of thousands of people can proceed.

100% agree

Get Real wrote: »

Yes, in theory the cars shouldn't proceed to enter the yellow box. But then everything would be at a standstill, and D'Olier street traffic would just keep filling that space. There is literally nothing humanely possible to do bar drive forward. It's up to DCC/TFI to change these sequences and it hasn't been done.

Surely the solution is simple then, link them to the lights further up and change the length of the light sequence at both points, linking a green further up with a green from Pearse St. Also remove all private cars from the area and force taxis round by the liffey.

Dyr

CramCycle wrote: »

Surely the solution is simple then, link them to the lights further up and change the length of the light sequence at both points, linking a green further up with a green from Pearse St. Also remove all private cars from the area and force taxis round by the liffey.

You already have a light junction on Pearse street thats a cannonball run for pedestrians, don't see how you'd get away with making it worse

Or you could bring back the extra lane on Pearse street while you're banning private cars

Jamie2k9

LXFlyer wrote: »

Can’t really argue with any of that.

Add in providing a safe alternative cycling route to the mix as well. The removal of one traffic lane at College Green to facilitate the cycle lane hasn’t helped the traffic situation either. But then again no alternative cycle route seems to have been considered.

The Thursday one overall did run ok, granted there were some issues but in comparison to today you couldn't begin to compare.

Idbatterim

so i Took it from dundrum to broombridge today. was little after 1pm, my main observations are, there are many minor junctions, where there is great line of sight, the luas was stopping and there was no other traffic approaching the junction, with minor junctions, why dont they simply make it law that you have to give right of way to the luas?

Its typical of Ireland and Dublin! just endless junctions and lights, nothing flows.

sdanseo

Everything that's not bus, bicycle or Luas needs to be banned from College Green. Taxi drivers on the whole have a horrific standard of driving (sorry to any here, but it is true and unquestionable) and have no business having priority over regular motorists. They are not public transport in the spirit of the phrase.

Also, splitting the tram line has contributed to this. O'Connell Street apparently wasn't wide enough for two tracks - yet it's the widest street in the capital - and Dawson was? Utter buffoonery.

New PT is a great thing. Badly designed PT is, unfortunately, an Irish thing. And we haven't bucked the trend here.

HeidiHeidi

So how did evening rush hour go today?

I did a giant loop around the southside to avoid having to go down the quays from Parkgate St to Merrion Road!

Victor

sugarman wrote: »

Maybe Im blind, but cant seem to see it anywhere... which is a bit surprising.. but if I were to travel from one stop on the red line to one stop on the green. Is it calculated as one fair? ie tag on at the red stop, tag off at the green? Or 2 seperate trips in which is must tag off at Abbey St and tag on at GPO or Marlborough?

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Tag on/off each line.

Yes, but only one fare.

sugarman wrote: »

Are you sure? Because on their online fare calculator here it lets me pick a Red line stop as my starting point and a Green line stop as my destination. It calculates a cash fair at €3.30 and says I'll only require 1 ticket.

If I was to tag on/off each line, the same fare would be €3.81 using leap

Going from Luas to Luas is a special case.

Spanish Eyes

Let's give it a bit of time to settle down.

There is no doubt though that there is intense competition for road space in the CC. That will not help LUAS.

Many people have said this already. I agree with them. There is just so MUCH traffic of all modes in competition with what should be a quick and easy mode, ie. LUAS.

And there is little or no sanction for transgressing the rules that lead to gridlock.

Early days. Let us see.

BonnieSituation

sdanseo wrote: »

Everything that's not bus, bicycle or Luas needs to be banned from College Green. Taxi drivers on the whole have a horrific standard of driving (sorry to any here, but it is true and unquestionable) and have no business having priority over regular motorists. They are not public transport in the spirit of the phrase.

Also, splitting the tram line has contributed to this. O'Connell Street apparently wasn't wide enough for two tracks - yet it's the widest street in the capital - and Dawson was? Utter buffoonery.

New PT is a great thing. Badly designed PT is, unfortunately, an Irish thing. And we haven't bucked the trend here.

It should never have gone down OCS in the first place.

LeinsterDub

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

The whole thing is a complete clusterf**k. Anyone with half a brain could foresee these problems at college green. It should never have been on street in the city centre, should’ve been underground

Worked very well this evening. Yes it should have been underground but we are where we are.

murpho999

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It should never have gone down OCS in the first place.

Why on earth not? Dublin's premier street does not warrant a tram?

These problems will be sorted out.

Get the traffic out of the city. Cars should not be on the same route. Cars are the issue with traffic.

LXFlyer

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Worked very well this evening. Yes it should have been underground but we are where we are.

Not so sure about that.

Plenty of reports of people on the existing Green Line stops being left behind due to trams being full.

I suspect that there is going to have to be a rapid rethink on peak service patterns, with perhaps some trams arriving from the south at St Stephen’s Green turning back southward there.

Also as I posted earlier evening peak frequency is less than in the mornings.

LeinsterDub

LXFlyer wrote: »

Not so sure about that.

Plenty of reports of people on the existing Green Line stops being left behind due to trams being full.

I suspect that there is going to have to be a rapid rethink on peak service patterns, with perhaps some trams arriving from the south at St Stephen’s Green turning back southward there.

The extra trams and frequency in the new year should sort it (for a few years anyway, after that we are all out of options as they can't get any longer or more frequent).

MayoSalmon

If anything I think the cross city may act as a deterrent to people trying to drive their cars straight through the middle of Dublin every morning and evening. Could be a blessing in the grander scheme of things.

James 007

I think taxis should have a stop off point in the vicnity of Parliament Street and Pearse Street, see attached pdf. Taxis should not be allowed near the Luas route. Taxis can drop off persons and either go north and south on both the circular routes thereafter. Bus No.s then should be looked at and restricted to certain numbers going through this route too. Lastly College Green is crying out for a proper Civic Plaza, there are some beautiful buildings in this area.

BowSideChamp

They need to ban taxis through College Green. It's crazy atm. Also, is it not the case that taxis can only use bus lanes if they have a passenger?

LXFlyer

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The extra trams and frequency in the new year should sort it (for a few years anyway, after that we are all out of options as they can't get any longer or more frequent).

Well that’s not much use to people who are trying to commute now is it being honest?

The service should not have been launched without the new trams in place.

They will of course bring their own issues insofar as how they will impact on other modes of transport given the special requirements that their additional length will demand.

yabadabado

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The extra trams and frequency in the new year should sort it (for a few years anyway, after that we are all out of options as they can't get any longer or more frequent).

Dart underground and Metro North will be built by then :eek:

Idbatterim

back to square one, at peak times, cant they simply remove seating from some of the trams?

they will probably wait to see what the new trams and extending the current one leaves things. Its amazing in a country that can find a 1,500,000,000,000 every budget to send up in smoke, they cant find a pittance extra in the scheme of things, to do anything about the ridiculous capacity issues with rail in the dublin area, like simply adding more bloody carriages and how long has it taken for extra luas capacity?! :mad:

LeinsterDub

yabadabado wrote: »

Dart underground and Metro North will be built by then :eek:

And what else is Santa getting you for Christmas little boy/girl?

yabadabado

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And what else is Santa getting you for Christmas little boy/girl?

Id have more hope in Santa getting it built than our politians.

BowSideChamp

BowSideChamp wrote: »

They need to ban taxis through College Green. It's crazy atm. Also, is it not the case that taxis can only use bus lanes if they have a passenger?

I believe that was the case way back when but the taxi lobby kicked up such a fuss they were then allowed use bus lanes at anytime.

Jamie2k9

There is currently 6 minute frequency from Parnel southbound. I was just at Abbey Street and two trains within maybe 3 minutes passed over with 8 and 4 passengers on board, at least one of those trams would of come from B Bridge. Not the real time had a gap of 6 minutes but they are operating so quick off peak they are running well ahead of schedule.

Numbers may be picking up at Trinity and inbound as far as Westmorland but longer term if there is not a dramatic improvement then from a cost prospective terminating )every second) at SSG will have to resume because it will turn out to be a very costly service to run.

As I said I know it's early days but I felt numbers would be stronger than this.

marno21

According to Leo the next big projects for Dublin are Metro North, Luas Lucan, Luas Poolbeg, Luas Finglas and DART Expansion.

I've created a poll here if any of you would like to vote: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057818930#

yabadabado

marno21 wrote: »

According to Leo the next big projects for Dublin are Metro North, Luas Lucan, Luas Poolbeg, Luas Finglas and DART Expansion.

I've created a poll here if any of you would like to vote: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057818930#

Id expect Metro North to be the clear winner.So badly needed, would love them to go with the original plan and start it asap.

TBH all those projects could do with being built in some form

LeinsterDub

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There is currently 6 minute frequency from Parnel southbound. I was just at Abbey Street and two trains within maybe 3 minutes passed over with 8 and 4 passengers on board, at least one of those trams would of come from B Bridge. Not the real time had a gap of 6 minutes but they are operating so quick off peak they are running well ahead of schedule.

Numbers may be picking up at Trinity and inbound as far as Westmorland but longer term if there is not a dramatic improvement then from a cost prospective terminating )every second) at SSG will have to resume because it will turn out to be a very costly service to run.

As I said I know it's early days but I felt numbers would be stronger than this.

It's 9 on a freezing Monday night. Anyone out for Christmas is already in the pub. Everyone else is in front of fire. How many people do expect to be out? I've seen very similar usage patterns on both the Red and original Green line. And how much of a saving would be achieved not running to Parnell? Pittance compared to the circa half billion constitution cost.

strandroad

marno21 wrote: »

According to Leo the next big projects for Dublin are Metro North, Luas Lucan, Luas Poolbeg, Luas Finglas and DART Expansion.

I've created a poll here if any of you would like to vote: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057818930#

In any other city they are three plain tram lines/spurs, a semi-underground tram line and a suburban train line enhancement. Routine projects, extended or enhanced every year as part of the standard network expansion.

Here we have fancy names and no progress in sight.

The real game changer is Dart underground... And it's absent.

Jamie2k9

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's 9 on a freezing Monday night. Anyone out for Christmas is already in the pub. Everyone is in front of fire. How many people do expect to be out? I've seen very similar usage patterns on both the Red and original Green line. And how much of a saving would be achieved not running to Parnell? Pittance compared to the circa half billion constitution cost.

Then freq needs to drop to 10 minutes like the Red Line and even go 15 minutes now. As I said it's new but still would of expected them to be much stronger. Terminating at Parnell is good during the day but at night time O'Connell street is largely empty (it's a little like Connolly 7am-7pm). Now if the case that numbers pick up from Trinity/Westmorland then of course you have to run to Parnell. As for savings prob 25-30 mins per service and if drivers can work for around 9 hours they could make big savings.

We will all be paying for it next December, if numbers stay that low in the late evenings.