Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Victor

trellheim wrote: »

the old alignments been built on hasn't it ?

From Sandyford to Carrickmines, the largest structure on the alignment seems to be a garden shed and the Luas sidings at Sandyford.

I wonder if they'd gauge the Metro to Irish broad gauge.

Impractical - it would mean ripping up all the track and laying new track. Loading gauge and platform height would be another matter.

trellheim

But aren't you going to do all that for Metro in any event ?

Victor

trellheim wrote: »

But aren't you going to do all that for Metro in any event ?

No - they're going to use the exisiting track

MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

But aren't you going to do all that for Metro in any event ?

No that's the whole point of why it's such an easy upgrade. The only bit of track to be replaced would be a short section where the tunnel portal track would connect to the existing line (near Charlemont/Ranelagh), which would take a couple of days based on how long it took to add the Red Line crossovers for Cross City.

MICKEYG

I wonder could they keep the Brides Glen to Sandyford line as is and have the normal Luas trams shuttle back and forth and have them connect with high frequency metro at Sandyford. It would allieve the need to upgrade all the at grade junctions on that stretch.

trellheim

I was sure it was going to be a heavy rail upgrade , sorry must have been mixing it up with DU .

Del.Monte

Am I missing something here as I have never seen anything official about the replacement of the Luas Green line with a Metro. Lots of hot air on Boards and elsewhere but just that. Any link to something official as I'm ready to be re-educated.

fionnsci

Del.Monte wrote: »

Am I missing something here as I have never seen anything official about the replacement of the Luas Green line with a Metro. Lots of hot air on Boards and elsewhere but just that. Any link to something official as I'm ready to be re-educated.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/planning-policy/greater-dublin-areatransport-strategy-2016-2035/

Greater Dublin Area Transport Plan. Search the document for mentions of Metro South, light rail. Map on page 67 gets the point across.

Peregrine

Del.Monte wrote: »

Am I missing something here as I have never seen anything official about the replacement of the Luas Green line with a Metro. Lots of hot air on Boards and elsewhere but just that. Any link to something official as I'm ready to be re-educated.

Well, the new design for Metro North isn't finished so it would be impossible to provide anything official.

Anyway, the Luas Green Line was originally supposed to go all the way to the Airport or Swords via a tunnel before SSG. It was to be a metro line as opposed to the Red line which was always designed as a tram. The section from SSG to the airport was shelved and was to be built at a later date. Luas Green Line was still built to metro spec.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/luas-lines-being-built-to-different-standards-1.364183

Then we had the whole debacle with the initial Metro North design but it wasn't designed to connect with the Luas Green Line. I think they were to be connected at a later date.

The GDA Transport Strategy 2015-2035 brought it back to life. At this stage, the original Metro North was shelved and it was decided that it would be redesigned. The GDA Transport Strategy envisaged the Metro South connection happening during and after the New Metro North. At some point here, Metro North started being referred to as 'Dublin Metro'.

While the Luas Green Line Capacity Enhancement project will provide an additional level of passenger capacity, a significant further uplift will be required to cater for the longer term usage forecasts. This will require an upgrading of the line to metro standard through the extension of new Metro North southwards, via a tunnel, to join the Green line in the Ranelagh area. This will enable the through running of Metro trams from Swords to Bride’s Glen.

The upgrading of the Luas Green Line to Metro will ensure that growth along this corridor can be accommodated and, in combination with new Metro North to Swords, will provide Dublin with a highcapacity, high-frequency cross-city rail corridor serving critical destinations at Dublin Airport, Dublin City University, the City Centre and Sandyford directly.

The connection between the extended new Metro North tunnel and the Luas Green Line, will facilitate services south of this connection point either running underground through the City Centre and onwards to Dublin Airport and Swords, or continuing on surface and linking with Luas Cross City.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Transport_Strategy_for_the_Greater_Dublin_Area_2016-2035.pdf

Earlier this year, Hines applied for permission to develop the Irish Nationwide building. NTA responds that it could block the development of Metro South.

The NTA has told the council it would be “premature” to grant permission for the development until the former had discussions with the developer. It said part of the site was the likely location for a future stop for Metro South, which is prosed under the Greater Dublin Area Transport Strategy 2016-2035.

Metro South would connect with Metro North, which would be developed first under the strategy, and would link with the Luas Green line south of the Charlemont stop.

The NTA said it “may be possible” to accommodate the metro connection and “substantial parts” of the Hines development, but it said part of the site would be likely to be required for the Metro.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/transport-bodies-fear-new-dublin-6-offices-may-hamper-luas-1.3042842

In December, The Times Ireland reported this:

A revised route for Metro North, from Swords to St Stephen’s Green, will be announced early next year and is expected to include an extension linking it with the Luas green line.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/metro-changes-course-to-bring-relief-to-green-line-commuters-cwmvpqpvl?t=ie

We'll find out in 2018 if the new design does in fact include a Luas link up.

Jamie2k9

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-college-green-traffic-restrictions-3782572-Jan2018/

The council will have to review the interim traffic management arrangements to determine what additional changes are required, given the need to restore pedestrian priority, to cater for longer Luas vehicles and for a higher frequency of Luas Cross City services.

I agree with Keegan for once,

“This is clearly not sustainable. In light of the now-delayed oral hearing the council will have to review the interim traffic management arrangements to determine what additional changes are required.”


The council is unlikely to ban buses from travelling to and from Dame Street ahead of the board’s decision, but can within its own traffic management powers, stop them from driving along the line in front of Trinity College to access Nassau Street and Dawson Street. It can also ban taxis and cars entirely from the area.


“We did not want to take precipitative action but the current situation can’t continue,” said Mr Keegan.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/traffic-restrictions-to-follow-shelving-of-plaza-hearing-1.3345276

Consonata

Banning cars off of dame street is the minimum that they could do. Cars need to be gone from OCS before CrossCity can be useable.

LeinsterDub

Consonata wrote: »

Banning cars off of dame street is the minimum that they could do. Cars need to be gone from OCS before CrossCity can be useable.

It's useable now.

MJohnston

Where was all of Owen Keegan's annoyance at stymied progress when DCC backed down over plans for Bachelor's Walk, the south Quays at O'Connell Bridge, and Parliament Street?

NuMarvel

cisk wrote: »

I agree with Keegan for once,

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/traffic-restrictions-to-follow-shelving-of-plaza-hearing-1.3345276

I blame the NTA and TII. Plonking a LUAS line down in the middle of the city without a word of warning, or discussion, or consultation. Sure no wonder DCC are scrambling to catch up when they had absolutely and utterly no prior warning of this.

Nope, none whatsoever...

Quackster

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's useable now.

Just about, but it will be a different story in a few months when it's operating an enhanced frequency with longer trams. Plus the reduced pedestrian priority at key junctions is not sustainable either.

LXFlyer

Quackster wrote: »

Just about, but it will be a different story in a few months when it's operating an enhanced frequency with longer trams. Plus the reduced pedestrian priority at key junctions is not sustainable either.

The LUAS frequency through the city centre isn’t going to increase - it’s already at the maximum of every 3 mins during the morning peak.

The problem is the longer trams which I expect will cause chaos.

Idbatterim

can they not take a section off them and use them on another tram, if this sorted the length issue?

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

can they not take a section off them and use them on another tram, if this sorted the length issue?

Completely not following what your saying. Are you saying shortening the new trams? Yes that would result in shorter trams but then we'd have the capacity issue return.

LeinsterDub

LXFlyer wrote: »

The LUAS frequency through the city centre isn’t going to increase - it’s already at the maximum of every 3 mins during the morning peak.

Frequency seems significantly lower this evening than when I got it before Christmas. Are they running a Saturday service?

LXFlyer

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Frequency seems significantly lower this evening than when I got it before Christmas. Are they running a Saturday service?

No - it's the Monday-Friday schedule this week.


Frequency in the city centre (like the bus network) is dependent upon the trams getting a clear run - maybe they got held up?

Spanish Eyes

Probably a stupid question, but why are longer trams required on LCC? Are they full to capacity right now? Are the longer trams the same length as the Red Line.

Thanks.

fionnsci

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Probably a stupid question, but why are longer trams required on LCC? Are they full to capacity right now? Are the longer trams the same length as the Red Line.

Thanks.

Longer trams are required on the green line generally as its pushing its capacity. The LCC platforms were built with this in mind as were platforms south of Sandyford. The original platforms have been lengthened over the last year or two. Red Line trams are already shorter than the current Green Line trams I believe. The more on-street sections, the harder it is to have long trams. The Green Line is more segregated from the road.

Stephen15

fionnsci wrote: »

Longer trams are required on the green line generally as its pushing its capacity. The LCC platforms were built with this in mind as were platforms south of Sandyford. The original platforms have been lengthened over the last year or two. Red Line trams are already shorter than the current Green Line trams I believe. The more on-street sections, the harder it is to have long trams. The Green Line is more segregated from the road.

Now with Luas CC the Green Line probably has just as much street running than the Red and more interaction with busy traffic. The red line only runs on quieter streets which are almost tram exclusive. Although the Red Line has more interaction with traffic outside the CC such on the Naas Road and in Tallaght.

I do think that the Red Line trams should be upgraded to 54m in the long run mind you.

Idbatterim

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Completely not following what your saying. Are you saying shortening the new trams? Yes that would result in shorter trams but then we'd have the capacity issue return.

yeah they come in modules dont they? couldnt they simply be used on red line trams etc?

donvito99

Idbatterim wrote: »

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Completely not following what your saying. Are you saying shortening the new trams? Yes that would result in shorter trams but then we'd have the capacity issue return.

yeah they come in modules dont they? couldnt they simply be used on red line trams etc?

New trams (longer) are being purchased and existing trams on the green line are being lengthened to match.

Jobs OXO

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah they come in modules dont they? couldnt they simply be used on red line trams etc?

Are the gauages not differing tho'?

G_R

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Are the gauages not differing tho'?

No, the trams are interchangeable between the lines

LeinsterDub

LXFlyer wrote: »

No - it's the Monday-Friday schedule this week.


Frequency in the city centre (like the bus network) is dependent upon the trams getting a clear run - maybe they got held up?

They where running to the RTI but Broombridge trams where only 10 minutes.

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah they come in modules dont they? couldnt they simply be used on red line trams etc?

They platforms are too short on the red line and I'm also half remembering something about the trams not being able to have further lengthening due to the the trams being too long between junctions