Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

BowSideChamp

MJohnston wrote: »

Do they really though? I can't remember ever seeing cars there, though I'm mostly only in the city at weekends.

Either way, they don't need it, and they don't need access for it.

Well they have said that they do need it and it is an important part of their business. See below.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/council-to-unveil-radical-vision-for-college-green-in-dublin-1.2519576?mode=amp

bk

Bank Of Ireland frankly should have been turfed out of their long ago and the building returned to public use. Perhaps as a museum. Idiotic to leave BoI with it :mad:

Stephen15

bk wrote: »

Bank Of Ireland frankly should have been turfed out of their long ago and the building returned to public use. Perhaps as a museum. Idiotic to leave BoI with it :mad:

The same could also be said about the GPO aswell

Del.Monte

Stephen15 wrote: »

The same could also be said about the GPO aswell

Why, the GPO was built for the job it still does today whereas the Bank of Ireland in College Green was the old parliament building?

bk

Stephen15 wrote: »

The same could also be said about the GPO aswell

Could it? I don't really see it being quiet the same.

The GPO was always a post office, it was built as one. And it isn't at all unusual for the main post office to be a big central building given how important mail was for government communications in the past, though obviously less important nowadays. Also An Post is 100% state owned, so it is still in government ownership and if they wanted to, they could easily turf AP out. It is still a state building and used for state business.

It obviously has a big connection with Irish historic events, but it always has been a post office.

In fairness to AP, they have made it much more welcoming to the public then BOI have College Green. It actually is busily used as a city post office and AP have done a good job in opening parts of it up as a museum, though they could probably do more.

The BoI building on the other hand was built as and formally the Irish Parliament, it was never meant to be a bank. BoI haven't really opened it up in the same way and their demands on vehicular access and parking in the heart of the city are pretty anti-public IMO.

Zebra3

Considering how much money BoI got from the taxpayer in the last bank bailout, the least the state should’ve got in return was that building.

Jamie2k9

Access to BOI car park shouldn't be a major issues, it would also be logical to have access for emergency vehicles.

wakka12

I think a museum is opening in part of BOI college green? Accessed by the westmoreland street portico,thought I heard that anyway

G_R

Zebra3 wrote: »

Considering how much money BoI got from the taxpayer in the last bank bailout, the least the state should’ve got in return was that building.

While I do agree it should be a publicly owned building, that money has since been repaid with interest, so it's not the most convincing of arguments

Zebra3

G_R wrote: »

While I do agree it should be a publicly owned building, that money has since been repaid with interest, so it's not the most convincing of arguments

BoI didn’t have much of a choice. The FF led government of the time choose to save the banks and screw the people (at the bottom). It should’ve insisted on the building.

Anyway, going way off topic.

BowSideChamp

bk wrote: »

BoI haven't really opened it up in the same way and their demands on vehicular access and parking in the heart of the city are pretty anti-public IMO.

Save your opinions for An Bord Pleanála


Bank of Ireland requires vehicular access to their courtyard and through Fosters Place

https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/documents/s2227/2%20Preliminary%20Public%20Consultation%20Report%20College%20Green%20Proposals.pdf

Stephen15

Just a suggestion with regards the Luas Green Line being converted to Metro and BRT.

Here's what I would do during bus connects

- Convert the N11 QBC to BRT have the current 145 running to Bray as BRT and branch off at Foxrock Church for DL ie the 46a running as a BRT ultimately have the aim to have the BRT converted to a tramway.

- When Metro North is being built convert the BRT line on the N11 to a tramway all the way from Stephens Green to Bray with a branch to DL at Foxrock Church.

- When the Green Line is converted to Metro realign the Green Line south of SSG to run to Bray/DL along my proposed new N11 tramway with the following service patterns

Parnell - Bray

Broombridge - DL

- Make the tramway bus friendly too so buses such the 75 and 84/A which currently run on the N11 can run on a segregated lane

Just a disclaimer here that this is an ideal world scenario where cost wouldn't be a huge issue so please don't lynch me on that . I would like to see this happen as I think it would be wasteful to have Green Line terminating at SSG, Harcourt or Charlemount when and if the line South of Charlemont is converted to Metro.

CramCycle

The LUAS had pans to run into Bray from the current green line. Complete this and give the 145 priority on it's route (i.e. green light run the whole way) and that is it done for alot cheaper and alot quicker. I don't think you need a tram way along the N11 considering you have the DART just east of it and the LUAS just West of it. It would bring back the issues of having a spiderweb network that DB started years ago.

Idbatterim

one big issue I have with all of it and the times lines, to hell with more luas in many areas, on the time line we are suggesting, buses will be battery powered, why bother with the expense, the wires, the cost etc?

I was reading another article on battery development the other day, at this juncture, on marginal routes or where it would be very costly to serve the southwest of the city with metro...

Hugh Jampton

MJohnston wrote: »

Seriously there are no car parks or hotels on College Green.

The Fleet Street Carpark depends on access from College Green.

Funny enough, the Westin Hotel gives its address on its website as College Green: http://www.thewestindublin.com/

I'd just CPO the Fleet Street Carpark, and all the other car parks within the Inner Orbital Route if their owners didn't have the nous to redevelop them, and then cry all the way to the bank. Private Cars within the Inner Orbital Route (see map) shouldn't be there, deliveries should be between 10pm and 7am, and taxis should pay a premium to access it.

Simple really.

MJohnston

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

The Fleet Street Carpark depends on access from College Green.

That's not accurate - you can access by turning right onto Westmoreland from College Street, and that doesn't involve using College Green at all. And sure, cars are already mostly banned from College Green anyway, so they already have to access it this way.

The same access would be possible for taxis and The Westin.

Hugh Jampton

MJohnston wrote: »

That's not accurate - you can access by turning right onto Westmoreland from College Street, and that doesn't involve using College Green at all. And sure, cars are already mostly banned from College Green anyway, so they already have to access it this way.

The same access would be possible for taxis and The Westin.

Okay, fair enough. I stand corrected.

monument

Idbatterim wrote: »

one big issue I have with all of it and the times lines, to hell with more luas in many areas, on the time line we are suggesting, buses will be battery powered, why bother with the expense, the wires, the cost etc?

I was reading another article on battery development the other day, at this juncture, on marginal routes or where it would be very costly to serve the southwest of the city with metro...

Why bother with trams? Here's a few reasons, in no real order:

• Luas is a system which has the chance of paying for its running costs (including infrastructure running costs) -- that might be lower with a far larger network but it would still be ahead of buses given the lower maintenance costs etc.
• Trams have higher passenger comfort with more controlled movement and no swerving
• Electric buses will still cause a large amount of particulate matter pollution (breaking, tires etc)
• Overhead electric does away with the cost and longer-term issues with batteries
• More doors allowing for faster access at stops
• More space for wheelchairs and prams
• Full low-floor with level boarding at all stops, all of the time
• Faster acceleration (for off-road sections)
• Doors on both sides allowing for platforms/stops on both sides
• Narrower space needed than a bus way
• Better safety record
• Easier to use rail lines (especially for tourists, people going to events etc)
• Their running areas can be grassed over (something Dublin could have done more within the city centre) and use of railway ballast outside the city.
• Far higher acceptance of trams (from putting in new rights of way to usage from people who for different reasons would not use buses)

Idbatterim

I agree with expanding current luas lines. But in new areas, the ridiculous length of time it takes to construct, the safety issues the track causes for cyclists, getting it through planning. The current green line was mostly unused track bed, the cross city is glacial, but lines had to be connected and thats they way the opted to do it, along now with all the ramifications...

Doors on both sides allowing for platforms/stops on both sides

nowhere on the current network is that used to be best of my knowledge.

Idbatterim

CramCycle wrote: »

The LUAS had pans to run into Bray from the current green line. Complete this and give the 145 priority on it's route (i.e. green light run the whole way) and that is it done for alot cheaper and alot quicker. I don't think you need a tram way along the N11 considering you have the DART just east of it and the LUAS just West of it. It would bring back the issues of having a spiderweb network that DB started years ago.

thin about the amount of new trips that can be completed if you connect green line to dart in bray...

you can then start getting to destinations other than "an lar" very easily

BonnieSituation

Idbatterim wrote: »

I agree with expanding current luas lines. But in new areas, the ridiculous length of time it takes to construct, the safety issues the track causes for cyclists, getting it through planning. The current green line was mostly unused track bed, the cross city is glacial, but lines had to be connected and thats they way the opted to do it, along now with all the ramifications...

nowhere on the current network is that used to be best of my knowledge.

Eh... it's used at Dominick and Busaras for starters...

O'Connell St and Westmoreland stops are on the right-hand side too

Idbatterim

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Eh... it's used at Dominick and Busaras for starters...

O'Connell St and Westmoreland stops are on the right-hand side too

so its used at two stops...

BonnieSituation

Idbatterim wrote: »

so its used at two stops...

That's 5 by my count...

And I'm not sure on others as I don't use the Luas a lot.

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

so its used at two stops...

Harcourt St too

BonnieSituation

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Harcourt St too

But of course.

So 6 stops in the city centre alone

G_R

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But of course.

So 6 stops in the city centre alone

And that's to say nothing of them not having to turn around to go backwards. Driver just walks to the other end and goes and can use the opposite doors for the return journey.

donvito99

This is comical.

Idbatterim

donvito99 wrote: »

This is comical.

wait till you see the opposition there will be to any proposed on street luas proposed in city centre from businesses ... and they will be right! Also the luas stops a lot longer than it needs to at stops, dwell time doesn't appear to be a pressing concern for them ...

donvito99

Idbatterim wrote: »

wait till you see the opposition there will be to any proposed on street luas proposed in city centre from businesses ... and they will be right!

I'll go in to one of these businesses and order an omelette. Only proviso is they're not allowed to break the eggs.

Also the luas stops a lot longer than it needs to at stops, dwell time doesn't appear to be a pressing concern for them ...

That's not what dwell time is.

If you want to meet as much passenger demand in Dublin without paying for a Metro you put rails in and let one tram and one driver carry nearly as many people as 5 buses and 5 drivers (with the tram itself having a usable life of twice that of a bus). It's not like the Luas expires after 10 years. The Dart to Dun Laoghaire is running on an alignment created 183 years ago. We need to stop painting over the cracks with Lána Bus.

Idbatterim

donvito99 wrote: »

I'll go in to one of these businesses and order an omelette. Only proviso is they're not allowed to break the eggs.



That's not what dwell time is.

If you want to meet as much passenger demand in Dublin without paying for a Metro you put rails in and let one tram and one driver carry nearly as many people as 5 buses and 5 drivers (with the tram itself having a usable life of twice that of a bus). It's not like the Luas expires after 10 years. The Dart to Dun Laoghaire is running on an alignment created 183 years ago. We need to stop painting over the cracks with Lána Bus.

I agree. We need dart underground and underground lines in city centre. Not more of that luas joke. In a city of over a million, that funnels everything down one extremely narrow channel. It's insane!